Tables turned on Humanity

[Ctrl Alt Del]

If the aliens were to use us as slaves, if I had the resources I would attempt to ally with them, infiltrate them, and double cross them, despite the risk.

As a slave, how would you manage to infiltrate them?

[Totenkopf]

Again, you'd have to appeal to their morals, whatever they are. If they behave a certain way with respect to other races (not sure how you'd find out, but for the sake of argument), you could remind them that treating other races well is something they usually do, and why should they be inconsistent in our case?

 

But as for appeals to our morality: I think that is just as useless as trying to sell the value of visual art to the blind (although they might decide it is useful in some other way, i.e, your reactions to such art might be interesting to them).

 

If they simply don't value our kind of morals then there is no moral argument that would make them stop. This is true even within the human race, and I doubt that there would be any difference with aliens in that respect.

 

I don't disagree, just your previous argument seemed aimed at positing an argument of demonstrating that killing people might be counterproductive from the standpoint of their utility, not so much their inherent worth as individuals. But, yes, unless you can give them a reason within the context of their own values, you're probably sool (s*** out of luck).

[PoiuyWired]

Well, basically it boils down to appealing to the superior species that we have better use alive than dead. Though I think sometimes going out would a bang may be a better option. basically you make them feel that invading earth is not a good idea as you make the planet undesirable. To put it simply you use a mix of scorch earth tactics, terrorist attacks and a whole bunch of similar tricks to make taking over the planet both too costly and undesirable. That means, trash what they would want, make yourself undesirable to fight with using dirty gurrila/terrorist tactics, and creat generay constant annoyance to induce stress on their whole invading structure.

 

Well, superior aliens have a economy too... if they found out they are losing expensive scientists by crazy savages with some old arcane explosive device with poisonous/viral stuff from time to time without being able to get any real resources out of the area, they would move on to another planet. Remember, this planet is out of nowhere, and generally aliens don't invade planets for fun. At best they are trying to select powerful warriors for their space marines.

 

As a slave, how would you manage to infiltrate them?

Cardboard boxes, you hide in them when they walk past you. And you se up an "underground cardboard railroad"

[Totenkopf]

Don't forget something. If a race of powerful aliens were to come to earth at this point in mankind's development.......we'd pretty much be screwed if they decided to annihilate us as unworthy. They wouldn't even need to come to the surface. Just sit up in orbit and lob asteroids at the surface, in addition to using any onboard weapons of their own. Even if they wished to preserve the surface of the planet, they could resort to developing a virus to wipe out humanity and return at a later date.

[Pho3nix]

This thread reminded me of a lulz-worthy PBF comic.

 

[Totenkopf]

OMG! the aliens will be from PETA.

[Ray Jones]

Wow, mot of you completely missed what I was trying to do with this thread. I generalized humanity for a -reason-. The point was that you counter arguments like that by giving examples or reasons why we are a species worth having around.

Maybe if you had made it more explicit, less people had missed that point.

 

The point is that this Alien race would view us as simply animals.

Where does it say so? You did not specify that as well.

 

Then you are a very small amount of the population. I don't know about you, but I doubt many people go home by the end of the day, sad that they may have harmed or killed an ant accidentally by walking.

There is no reason to be sad because I *may* have killed an animal. By I care I mean more I *don't* step onto that ant when I notice I that I would.

 

I don't know, you tell me. I believe it is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

No. When you ask "would you explain natural rights", you must at least define what natural rights are, so we'd have a common ground for a possible answer, which otherwise becomes pointless.

 

I don't know. You tell me. I'm the one thats asking.

Nope. See above.

 

I'm asking you if you would use the argument. Again, you have completely failed to understand what I was trying to do. I was listing things that could be used, not things I was using.

But you did not label them as such,

 

My scenarios were examples to use. I wasn't using them specifically. Congrats on completely missing the point.

Thank you and ditto.

 

 

Bleh, never mind. This was a pointless thread from the start. People seemed far more interested in ripping my post apart instead of focusing on the point it was trying to make.

But you made no specific point in your first post. Instead you tell us now we got it wrong.

 

Now I remember why I hate posting in this damn place.

So what did you expect? Cookies? XD

[Ctrl Alt Del]

OMG! the aliens will be from PETA.

Quite frankly, if it were I, I would take Earth out too.

[Arcesious]

*reads the posted comic* If it were me, I'd quickly grab the pictures of the much 'cuter' earth puppies, and save Earth.

[urluckyday]

I'd try and fight as many aliens off as possible and die fighting for the human race...like in "Independence Day." That'd be the best way to go...

[Jae Onasi]

Well, if they're into morality and thus are willing to spare the lives of humanity, since it shows a significant degree of sentience and has a right to live, then we might have a chance. Otherwise, we'll be saying hello to Mr. Flyswatter an awful lot.

[Corinthian]

I wouldn't convince them it was morally wrong to kill us. They're either going to tell us that, although we are primitive, we have great potential, or they'll come into orbit and start shooting. Either way, our best bet is to break out the M-16s and open fire on sight, hitting any craft that haven't lowered their boarding ramps with fusion nukes and salvaging the rest, eventually reverse-engineering them so that we can become a mighty spacefaring King-Race.

[Jae Onasi]

Kinda like that race in Star Trek TNG that got space travel before their time, talking to LaForge: "You are smart. You make things go."

[Totenkopf]

@Ray--actually, she(?) was pretty specific in the first post that it was humanity as a whole and not you as an individual. The only "you" here is the poor scmuck assigned the task of justifying humanity's intrinisic worth to "galactic flyswatters". You went off on a tangent by personalizing your own philosophical outlook vis-a-vis the 4-5 examples of human behavior mentioned in the OP. Further, the "aliens" in question were almost of the variety that "we're giving you 10 minutes to justify why we shouldn't just eliminate you" for the purposes of expediency (we don't like you/we're building an intergalactic bypass and you're in the way/we want your stuff).

[Corinthian]

Didn't see that episode. So they were Spacefaring Cavemen, huh? Sounds like they'd have gotten along well with the Klingons.

[DeadYorick]

Id think that humanity wouldn't give up without a fight. I think they would rather destroy themselves and take the aliens with them then be 2nd place on the food chain

[Corinthian]

Yeah, but it wouldn't be necessary. We have nuclear weapons. Aliens never do.

[Ray Jones]

@Ray--actually, she(?) was pretty specific in the first post that it was humanity as a whole and not you as an individual. The only "you" here is the poor scmuck assigned the task of justifying humanity's intrinisic worth to "galactic flyswatters".

I recognised that. And I didn't felt addressed "personally". But that wasn't the point. The point was, it is a semi-optimal chosen generalisation to display humanity.

 

You went off on a tangent by personalizing your own philosophical outlook vis-a-vis the 4-5 examples of human behavior mentioned in the OP. [/Quote]And why shouldn't I have done this? Nowhere she said don't.

 

Further, the "aliens" in question were almost of the variety that "we're giving you 10 minutes to justify why we shouldn't just eliminate you" for the purposes of expediency

Yes, I know that. You just don't travel billions of lightyears to (A) negotiate such things, or (B) do such things.

 

 

 

However, for the sake of Avery's happiness (and while we're into mere fiction): I think a good way to "convince" those aliens is like Bud "did" in the movie The Abyss.

[Corinthian]

Ten minutes to justify why they shouldn't kill us? Alright, that's easy.

 

What gives them the right to decide who lives or dies? Who made them Kings of the Universe? Why are they the ones to decide our fate? Request to see the Intraspace Security Council on this. Use our veto. Attempt technobabble explanations while Riker attempts to dig up new evidence and Data overlooks the laws, searching for a loophole. Are the aliens in their proper jurisdiction? Do they have clearance from the Milky Way Galactic Authority? Is there an appeals system in place? Are the aliens willing to conduct negotiations face to face, and if so, will a 5.56mm bullet penetrate their flesh? Do they, in fact, possess the means and balls to wipe out a planet of 6.5 billion sentients, plus billions of other lifeforms? Would petitioning the Sector Group Overauthority be possible? Do they possess the same moral standards as us, and if so, then wouldn't committing such a crime without a proper due process of law be committing mass murder to an extent that would make the Nazis wince? Are we dealing with rubber foreheads or something actually alien? Does Kirk come back in time, accompanied by a posse of green alien women to save us with the power of his easily-shredded uniform? Will a well-placed Flipendo remove them from our orbital lanes? Would the Universal Council approve such an action if it were brought to their attention? Given that humanity poses no real threat without any means of FTL travel and only a mild understanding of cryogenics thus making assaults using Sleeper Ships impossible, is it really worth their effort to kill this world? Given that it is still more than possible for humanity to evolve and we only pose a threat to each other, wouldn't killing us be counterintuitive? Isn't this a violation of the Prime Directive? Would the Federation President be in favor of this action? Wouldn't it be a shame to ruin such great monuments as the Pyramids and others of the Wonders? Isn't murder wrong? Can they really justify this action as being "For the Greater Good" and if so, are they really any better than we are? If their only answer to a situation is to kill it, why were they not exterminated? Isn't this reaction a little out of proportion to the real issue? Why are they visiting Earth anyway?

[Totenkopf]

1)I recognised that. And I didn't felt addressed "personally". But that wasn't the point. The point was, it is a semi-optimal chosen generalisation to display humanity.

2)And why shouldn't I have done this? Nowhere she said don't.

 

Yes, I know that. You just don't travel billions of lightyears to (A) negotiate such things, or (B) do such things.

However, for the sake of Avery's happiness (and while we're into mere fiction): I think a good way to "convince" those aliens is like Bud "did" in the movie The Abyss.

 

1)Well, that's the poster's right to posit their question or scenario as they wish, no?

2)change the question to be tailored to your answer, hmm.....you may have a future in politics my boy. Well, seriously, it's a free country and all, but why not answer the question first and then point out why you think the basic premise is flawed (though since Earth has no direct experience with alien civilizations, it's going to be hard to prove one way or the other).

[Tommycat]

Simple answer: We'll make great pets.

 

Realistic answer: We may be nothing more than mere annoyances to them, but chances are we would fight them to the last. Sure some people will roll over and allow them to defeat us, but the bravest among us will not allow ourselves to be destroyed. If they look at us from our faults, then we won't have a chance. We have art. We have love. We have compassion for those that are less fortunate.

 

What would keep them from destroying us? That has more to do with what they are and who they are. I mean honestly they may respect our race for our hunting prowess. They may respect our race for our adaptability. They may respect us as fellow meateaters. They may respect us as soldiers. Things that some on here may find objectionable are traits that the aliens may enjoy. They may like going with us on "tribal" hunts as we enjoy going on hunts with existing tribes. Things you may see as bad may be things they respect.

Lets look at a few things:

I'll provide the corellary

We will hunt on a full stomach to get a trophy.

We are proud of our accomplishments.

We will mass slaughter animals for food.

We are efficient

We will gas and trap bugs and critters in our houses to clean up.

We adapt our environments to fit ourselves

We will destroy ecosystems and species to further our own aims.

We can reform an area to be more fit to allow us to survive

We are seemingly at the top, so even many of our religions have put us above animals.

We have made ourselves better than the rest of the animals through our adaptability. Animals that are bigger/stronger/meaner/faster are overcme by our tools.

[PoiuyWired]

@Ray--actually, she(?) was pretty specific in the first post that it was humanity as a whole and not you as an individual. The only "you" here is the poor scmuck assigned the task of justifying humanity's intrinisic worth to "galactic flyswatters". You went off on a tangent by personalizing your own philosophical outlook vis-a-vis the 4-5 examples of human behavior mentioned in the OP. Further, the "aliens" in question were almost of the variety that "we're giving you 10 minutes to justify why we shouldn't just eliminate you" for the purposes of expediency (we don't like you/we're building an intergalactic bypass and you're in the way/we want your stuff).

 

Time to Hitchhike?

 

We don't Have to panic then.

[Arcesious]

let's just hope we don't have to deal with aliens like in 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'...

[Corinthian]

Hey, that wasn't their fault. The forms had just gotten tied up in interstellar mail.

[Tommycat]

Hey, that wasn't their fault. The forms had just gotten tied up in interstellar mail.

And it's not like the plans weren't on display for several months for us to see.