Revan vs. Thrawn

[DAWUSS]

Give both of them large fleets of ships and armies of soldiers, who wins?

 

 

 

 

(I really didn't know where to place it, so in here it goes)

[TKA-001]

There is no reason to assume that Revan could kick the crap out of someone just by looking at the paintings they have hanging on their wall.

 

Thrawn is proven to have done so.

 

Conclusion: Thrawn. End of story.

[Corinthian]

In theory? Revan wins. Sorry. But the fact remains that all he has to do is open a holocomm channel with Thrawn and then he Force-Chokes him to death. Hell, it's not like it would even be the first time this happened, but this time, Thrawn's not going to have one of Palpatine's aides on hand to send the radiation bombs at Outbound Flight.

 

In Practice? Draw. Revan would propose a strategic alliance against the True Sith and the Yuuzhan Vong. Thrawn, being an inherently logical being, would agree. Given that they're both fairly honorable, they'd probably wind up having joint rule of some kind of Empire.

[Lance Monance]

Revan would feel very frustrated when Thrawn achieves victory after victory. Then Revan would resort to assassination and would likely succeed.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Thrawn has a slight tactical advantage, but Revan has the Jedi advantage. 1v1 Revan takes down Thrawn.

 

EDIT: By "1v1" I mean without any other aid (i.e. Thrawn using Palpatine as a resource)

[Fredi]

Hmmm good question ... It should be a poll ... I will go with Thrawn ... but it's a very closed decition.

[jonathan7]

In theory? Revan wins. Sorry. But the fact remains that all he has to do is open a holocomm channel with Thrawn and then he Force-Chokes him to death. Hell, it's not like it would even be the first time this happened, but this time, Thrawn's not going to have one of Palpatine's aides on hand to send the radiation bombs at Outbound Flight.

 

In Practice? Draw. Revan would propose a strategic alliance against the True Sith and the Yuuzhan Vong. Thrawn, being an inherently logical being, would agree. Given that they're both fairly honorable, they'd probably wind up having joint rule of some kind of Empire.

 

QFT

 

Revan would win, not only is he a wonderful strategist, but also has the advantage of have force pregonition, not to mention assassinating Revan would be alot harder than taking out Thrawn.

[TKA-001]

Is there any actual evidence of Revan's supposed strategic genius anywhere other than the player's party members?

[Gurges-Ahter]

The only evidence I know of is the stories of how he completely turned the tide in the Mandalorian Wars, mostly coming from the party members and other characters encountered during K1 and K2.

[jonathan7]

Is there any actual evidence of Revan's supposed strategic genius anywhere other than the player's party members?

 

What do you mean by 'evidence'? What's wrong with the NPC's testimoney? Is the fact that only after Revan took charge that the Republic turned the war around?

 

It was by the actions of one person, the Jedi Revan, that you prevailed.

 

If Revan had been a Mandalorian, nothing in the galaxy would have stopped us.

 

At the start, they were not much of a threat to speak of, but once the Jedi Revan had taken charge, things began to turn against us. The Republic fleets began to use more than just basic tactics. Feints, counterattacks, mass deceptions. Revan was a genius on the field. Revan abandoned worlds of their defenders so that others would be too fortified to strike, and was willing to make sacrifices in order to advance goals. And in the end, Revan proved too much for us.

 

Canderous, isn't the kind of guy who would make a mistake, indeed if a real life Charachter he would be far more qualified than either of us to comment on Revan's abilities.

 

Only Revan was worthy of our respect. We swept throughout the Outer Rim without opposition—until Revan assumed command of the Republic forces. Only then did the battle turn.

 

You, Revan, are the single greatest warrior of this age, and any battle we fight will bring me honor."

 

Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul.

 

I do not believe the Jedi Council changed Revan, as they claimed. They merely stripped away the surface, and allowed the true self to emerge again - someone who was willing to wage war to save others. But that is my belief, since I knew Revan from long ago... as a master knows their apprentice.

 

Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore? And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil.

[TKA-001]

All that says, behind all the hyperbole, is that Revan was a good strategist. There is no indication that he could be Thrawn's equal in any hypothetical scenario.

 

And why did you include all the quotes about Revan's force ability? What difference does that make?

[Gurges-Ahter]

All that says, behind all the hyperbole, is that Revan was a good strategist. There is no indication that he could be Thrawn's equal in any hypothetical scenario.

There is some indication, at the very least. You can choose to believe it's hyperbole, but all of the conversations point to Revan being a tactical & strategic genius.

And why did you include all the quotes about Revan's force ability? What difference does that make?

I think it's a general conception that people believe being force sensitive aids in just about everything in the SW Universe, up to and including battle strategy. Given how powerful and natural Revan was in utilizing the force, it only follows that he was able to use this to his advantage during battle strategy.

[TKA-001]

There is some indication, at the very least. You can choose to believe it's hyperbole, but all of the conversations point to Revan being a tactical & strategic genius.

Didn't say there was no indication. Revan is never shown to do anything putting him close to the capability of Thrawn, who we actually see doing things in some EU sources.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Didn't say there was no indication. Revan is never shown to do anything putting him close to the capability of Thrawn, who we actually see doing things in some EU sources.

While the sources aren't as specific as we have seen with Thrawn, I still believe there is, at the very least, some indication that Revan is Thrawn's equal based on the comments we heard in K1 and K2 about Revan's tactical and strategic capabilities.

 

Whether or not we choose to believe that circumstantial evidence is enough to rival Thrawn, for which we have specific examples, is an individual choice... I won't argue that selecting Thrawn is a bad choice. But I do believe there is enough there to believe Revan is capable of defeating him.

[Lord of Hunger]

Revan wins. Why? Thrawn is good with normal army tactics, but Revan's knowledge of the Force trumps. And I'm not talking about Force Choke. I'm talking about Malachor, Telos, Serreco, and other planets that became Wounds in the Force. Revan would create Death Stars not just to destroy bases, but to create hundreds of Alderaans. This would augment his natural Force Persuade, making him capable of controlling billions of ordinary troops and Force users.

 

You see, both are strategists, but Revan was a leader, probably the best in the history of Star Wars. Thrawn can learn a lot about someone from a painting, but it'll be too late because Revan will be swarming Thrawn's bases with numbers that blot out the horizon.

[RedHawke]

Give both of them large fleets of ships and armies of soldiers, who wins?

Well if it is of any consequence Thrawn lost to my character in the D6 Star Wars Pnp RPG... he lost badly. And he had a very impressive and well crafted fleet of ships.

 

My same character would also easily take Revan and the Sith fleet Revan possessed... likely even more easily.

 

Due to the making of the PT and we now know what happened during the Clone Wars it actually made a bunch of what my character has for forces work well in the Star Wars storyline.

 

OT: Thrawn would have a technological advantage, whilst Revan would have the force and many force users to draw upon... hard to say which is stronger.

[Kjølen]

Revan would create Death Stars not just to destroy bases, but to create hundreds of Alderaans.

 

I don't think Revan was the type of person to go for the whole superweapon thing like Palpatine. He was more of a practical warrior. His disdain for using even the Star Forge seems proof of that. Also, I don't even think Revan was at Serroco when the Mandalorians devastated it. He did feel it through the Force, though.

[Giant Graffiti]

Thrawn, hands down.

[Admiral_Thrawn]

Give both of them large fleets of ships and armies of soldiers, who wins?

 

I think the thread isn't about a direct confrontation, more in the sense of strategic superiority and as a result all comments about the force are nulled. Okay, so I wont deny that being able to anticipate your opponents through the force is a valuable asset, but it would take more than foresight to win battles.

 

As far as I percieve Canderous' comments it seems that the Republic outnumbered the Mandalorians, five to one. However, they had no definitive leadership, nor any strategic unison. Revan simply brought the Republic together and allowed their numbers to actually affect the tide. I would equate him as a good strategist, seeing as how the Republic had far more resources and soldiers than the Mandalorians. In fact, it was strategy and terror that allowed the Mandalorians to be so successful, where as the Republic was in dissaray from so many sudden attacks.

 

Revan united the Republic under one banner, brought forward some Jedi and countered the Mandalorians repetitive strategies.

 

Thrawn however brought together the Remnants and led them to many victories, against the odds with numerically superior foes. Thrawn was a brilliant tactician, a master in the art of war.

 

((Yes, I am a huge Thrawn fan . . . read my name for heavens sake ))

[CommanderQ]

In the situation of Revan taking on Thrawn, my personal opinion would say Thrawn.

 

Revan was a good tactician, but as Admiral_Thrawn pointed out, he was fighting Mandalorians and their repetitive strategies. Not quite the same as devising your own, and adapting as Thrawn did.

 

In the end, though, I'd probably say draw, Revan was a master of the force, and Thrawn, Master of Strategy, they'd probably just kill eachother at the same time.

[Admiral_Thrawn]

Well put CQ

 

I think Revan is overestimated . . . sure he was strong in the force, a expert with the lightsaber.

 

Actually, Ive thought of a better way to distinguish the two. Revan was a leader, Thrawn a strategist and a leader. Now, as the point of this thread was put we weren't talking about these two dueling, or as their skills as combatants. We were talking about them as leading figures who command two forces, not two duelists.

 

Thrawn could adapt, he could interpret a races beliefs, strengths and weaknesses just from looking at their creations of art. He could defeat enemies when they vastly outnumbered him, when they were in command of many strategic advantages that almost assured victory for them.

 

Damn, im pretty sure if Thrawn hadn't been assissnated that he quite easily could've dominated the galaxy.

 

As for people who are undoubtably going to bring up his leadership experiences as a Sith Lord, you must remember all the things he had at his command. He had the academy of Malachor V, the infinite fleets of the Star Forge, the endless hordes of Sith and Republic soldiers alike, flocking to join the cause of this hero-gone-conqueror of the Republic. Also you must remember, the Republic had just been through two wars and lost a considerable amount of its fleet at Malachor V, as Revan intended. Not to mention the third of the Republic fleet that was under Revans command . . . and the considerable amount lost to the Exar Kun war. Geez, the Republic was in crisis, its forces on the brink of collapse. Hardly the situation of Thrawn . . .

 

Meanwhile Thrawn had extremely limited forces and supplies, against superior foes who far surpassed his ships and soldiers in many capacities. Yet he triumphed time after time, claiming many victories for his cause. Not only that, he knew when to retreat, who to attack and where to target. Pure genius on Thrawns part, typical circumstance on Revans. He was a figure head and a leader, but not a tactician, not truly.

 

Im pretty sure that if Revan and Thrawn were fused into one, the Galaxy would be under their total rule within a matter of days. But they werent and they each have flaws and strengths.

[Kjølen]

True, the circumstances were not balanced, and thus it makes them difficult to compare, but remember that the Republic was in the same sort of crisis from the Mandalorians ad Thrawn was from the New Republic when Revan turned the tide. Also, isn't assassinability another important leadership quality? Your cleverness is worth **** if you are dead. Revan is far less assassinable.

[Lord of Hunger]

I don't think Revan was the type of person to go for the whole superweapon thing like Palpatine. He was more of a practical warrior. His disdain for using even the Star Forge seems proof of that.

1) The Star Forge was not a superweapon, it was a factory that was fueled by solar power and the Force.

2) Revan's disdain was for a very specific reason: it would have eventually consumed him. A Death Star doesn't do that sort of thing, and therefore he would have no problem with it.

Also' date=' I don't even think Revan was at Serroco when the Mandalorians devastated it. He did feel it through the Force, though.[/quote']

No he wasn't at Serroco. But he used that planet and the others to gain control over Jedi and other Force users.

Thrawn however brought together the Remnants and led them to many victories, against the odds with numerically superior foes. Thrawn was a brilliant tactician, a master in the art of war.

1) No offense but that is hyperbole.

2) Revan did the same thing with the Jedi Civil War early on. Eventually his numbers swelled, but the army he had was smaller than the remaining Republic forces under the Senate's command.

Thrawn could adapt, he could interpret a races beliefs, strengths and weaknesses just from looking at their creations of art.

And Revan could defeat entire enemies by easily understanding their ideologies and breaking them.

He could defeat enemies when they vastly outnumbered him, when they were in command of many strategic advantages that almost assured victory for them.

He had the academy of Malachor V, the infinite fleets of the Star Forge, the endless hordes of Sith and Republic soldiers alike, flocking to join the cause of this hero-gone-conqueror of the Republic. Also you must remember, the Republic had just been through two wars and lost a considerable amount of its fleet at Malachor V, as Revan intended. Not to mention the third of the Republic fleet that was under Revans command . . . and the considerable amount lost to the Exar Kun war. Geez, the Republic was in crisis, its forces on the brink of collapse. Hardly the situation of Thrawn . . .

Revan barely even used the Star Forge. He used it as a jump start device for his army, and had every intention of abandoning it ASAP. As for Malachor, that was a conversion device. Most of Revan's army came to him after the start of the Jedi Civil War when it was apparent that Revan was going to win.

 

Also, the New Republic wasn't that well off when Thrawn became a threat. They were just beginning to recover from defeating the Galactic Empire...a similar situation to the Old Republic right after the Mandalorian Wars.

 

In addition, I would not call the Mandalorian tactics repetitive. They were all very aggression based, but not all the same. And Revan did know when to retreat, he could definitely decide when to pull out of one battle in order to win another more crucial engagement.

 

One last thing: Consider the armies that Thrawn and Revan started with. Thrawn had the remains of one of the greatest war machines in the Galaxy and combined it with Chiss tech to make it even stronger. Revan had the Old Republic military (a rather pathetic fighting force) and a bunch of Jedi Knights (most of whom had never seen war until then), and whipped it up into the backbone of the Sith Empire.

[Kjølen]

1) The Star Forge was not a superweapon, it was a factory that was fueled by solar power and the Force.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Superweapon

 

Just because it didn't have a huge gun on it doesn't mean that it wasn't a superweapon. The ability to corrupt an entire race of beings and produce an unlimited supply of war machines makes it a powerful weapon indeed.

 

Also, superweapons were expensive and wasteful. Revan was not the type of person to flaunt frivolous power.

[Lord of Hunger]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Superweapon

 

Just because it didn't have a huge gun on it doesn't mean that it wasn't a superweapon. The ability to corrupt an entire race of beings and produce an unlimited supply of war machines makes it a powerful weapon indeed.

Hmm...I personally wouldn't call it a weapon, rather a very powerful and deadly entity (given that the Star Forge was alive. But for the sake of this argument I'll accept the presented definition.

Also, superweapons were expensive and wasteful. Revan was not the type of person to flaunt frivolous power.

You assume that he would flaunt a Death Star like Tarkin and Sidious were planing. Remember what they built it for: A device of fear. Revan would build it as a tool of destruction: wipe out one of Thrawn's civilian worlds and exploit the Force Wound that results. Unlike Tarkin, Revan would be actively employing it to his ends...and take care of that one unprotected port.