Is TOR as good as KOTOR III?

[Da_Man_2423]

Unless there isn't a monthly fee. *crosses fingers*

 

There will be. You'd better pray damn hard for some divine intervention, and even then it'd probably still happen.

[RyuuKage]

"The Wait Is Over" means the Wait is Over. It doesn't specifically say K3 or Revan on the cover.

 

And, from experience with multiple MMOs, an MMO is here to stay for a long time. They wouldn't spend years working on something so large only to use it as a pacifier for the real treat.

 

If you don't believe me, ask the people that are still waiting for Warcraft IV.

 

name one thing any significant number of people were waiting for then...K3 and BF3 are the only things that come to mind, and BF3's development is a well-known secret.

 

Face it, the only thing anyone was waiting for was K3, not an MMO, regardless of it's setting. Much less one with such an anticlimactic end for Revan and the Exile: "So they both went to fight off the big bad True Sith but instead got pwned or converted to the Dark side, the end..."

[True_Avery]

name one thing any significant number of people were waiting for then...K3 and BF3 are the only things that come to mind, and BF3's development is a well-known secret.

 

Face it, the only thing anyone was waiting for was K3, not an MMO, regardless of it's setting. Much less one with such an anticlimactic end for Revan and the Exile: "So they both went to fight off the big bad True Sith but instead got pwned or converted to the Dark side, the end..."

"Significant number" is relative. While people were waiting for both games, I don't think we have an actual statistic showing the majority wanted K3.

 

And, as has already been stated, what make this MMO not part of the continuity? Sure, it is set 300 years after, but it is promised to have a story and I'll trust Bioware on that for now. If they can pull it off Guild Wars style, what you will basically be playing is a very, very, large and multiplayer single player RPG.

 

And it is set 4000-3500 years before. We all knew Revan and Exile were eventually going to die, and we have yet to actually discover if either are dead or alive. Jedi, including human Jedi, have been known to live for extraordinary amounts of time and considering Revan was some super powered Sith Lord and Exile is not -technically- alive, who is to say they are completely gone?

 

You can push it aside, but I thought it was an MMO and hoped it was an MMO the day it was released that Bioware was working on one.

[RyuuKage]

You can push it aside, but I thought it was an MMO and hoped it was an MMO the day it was released that Bioware was working on one.

 

i think most of us knew that, we just weren't waiting in anticipation...dread maybe...lol

 

Just based on some of the things in the Sith Empire descriptions, I've got what will likely be a common theory as to the identity of this shady Emperor...who knows, lol.

[Darth_Yuthura]

*Snipped* Both BioWare and LA said the reason for making K3 an MMO is that:

 

http://www.massively.com/2008/10/21/star-wars-the-old-republic-mmo-to-replace-kotor-3/

 

I like the Idea of leaving the mystery of what happened...? unsolved(for the most part.)

 

I would like to clarify something for everyone to ensure that they get something straight:

 

TOR and KOTOR III are NOT the same, but TOR as it is known explicitly declares that Revan and the Exile leave and never return. Then 350 years later, the enemies they went out to fight invade and conquer the Republic. This means that the climactic end to KOTOR is that the heros died or were converted.

 

It would be like the ending of episode three and then hearing that it wasn't for 350 years that the Emperor was defeated. That detracts from everything at the end of episode three.

 

If Lucasarts wants an MMO, make it take place directly after TSL, or don't touch KOTOR at all.

[Prime]

It would be like the ending of episode three and then hearing that it wasn't for 350 years that the Emperor was defeated. That detracts from everything at the end of episode three.

In your opinion.

[Rev7]

It will never be the same, but it is something that we have to live with.

[Web Rider]

The setting of the MMO is fine, but only fine for separating itself from the previous too games. It's far too far down the road to be a conclusive ending to the trilogy. I mean, would Return of the Jedi or Revenge of the Sith have felt like it concluded the Clone Wars or the falle of the Empire if the movie was set 300 years after Empire Strikes Back or Attack of the Clones?

 

 

The only possible reason, IMO, to set it this far in the future, is to leave room for a "K3" in between, or simply because they didn't want to deal with all the problems they created by failing to wrap up the universe of Kotor1+2.

[True_Avery]

TOR and KOTOR III are NOT the same, but TOR as it is known explicitly declares that Revan and the Exile leave and never return. Then 350 years later, the enemies they went out to fight invade and conquer the Republic. This means that the climactic end to KOTOR is that the heros died or were converted.

The climactic end is that they both went into the unknown and we know not what happened.

 

Really, the climactic end is that 3500 years later a Sith Lord puts the final bullet into the head of both the Jedi and the Republic. Even when Luke tried to put them back together, neither have recovered well. So, really, all of this is for naught as we already know what happens.

 

It would be like the ending of episode three and then hearing that it wasn't for 350 years that the Emperor was defeated. That detracts from everything at the end of episode three.

It wasn't for another like, 23 years right? The hero fell to the Dark Side, killed or attempted to kill everyone he loved, and then ruled the Galaxy with an iron fist for 20 something years until his son came along and turns him back before he dies.

 

Star Wars is known for redemption, but not so much for a happy road along the way. Revan and Exile are Mary Sue characters, and after how godly the lore made both of them out to be its almost a releif to see that they both have/had weaknesses.

 

But, again, we still do not know what happened to them. Revan was apparently incredibly powerful and knew a lot of extinct teachings. Exile is -technically- not alive, and is more of a moving hole in the Force that eats off of what is around her. Outside of time, I don't see a whole lot of reason as to why they are both not still out there in some way.

 

Except, everyone has to die somehow. We cannot follow every year of these people's lives to the book, and even a shorter time skip would just have us playing one of them, or another god like Jedi character. Although the storytelling is fantastic, the Old Republican is slowly filling with too many characters with plot armor.

 

If Lucasarts wants an MMO, make it take place directly after TSL, or don't touch KOTOR at all.

Directly after TSL the Republic is still on the brink of total collapse and the Jedi are extinct. Its going to take at least 100 years before the Jedi are a force to be reckoned with again, and the Republic is recovering from a Galaxy wide depression and a Military that just went through almost 4 wars in a row.

 

It got 300 years to recover and then was mauled once again by Sith, this time making all the way to Coruscant. Now we have a cold war on our hands, which is a great way to put a world together in my book. (See, World of Warcraft)

 

Just my 2cents.

 

The only possible reason, IMO, to set it this far in the future, is to leave room for a "K3" in between, or simply because they didn't want to deal with all the problems they created by failing to wrap up the universe of Kotor1+2.

Agreed. 300 years is a long time, and LA has proven already that they like to fill every single second of their universe up.

[Darth_Yuthura]

In your opinion.

 

In many people's opinions I believe.

 

And before anyone demands proof of something you already know... don't.

 

If you object to what I say, then why don't you try to convince me that TOR is better 300 years after KOTOR than 5-20 after TSL. Why would KOTOR fans be glad to know that the ending goes badly?

 

(Before you ask for more proof, then you provide real proof that the majority of KOTOR fans are glad to know Revan and the Exile died and failed)

[TKA-001]

we have yet to actually discover if either are dead or alive.

No. We don't. Even considering the possibility of Revan, the Exile, or any of their companions being alive for so long is absurd.

 

Jedi, including human Jedi, have been known to live for extraordinary amounts of time

Yeah? Like who?

 

In your opinion.

It's only her/his opinion according to your opinion, Pr.

[Web Rider]

If you object to what I say, then why don't you try to convince me that TOR is better 300 years after KOTOR than 5-20 after TSL. Why would KOTOR fans be glad to know that the ending goes badly?

It takes place long after K2 because K3 would HAVE to revolve around fixing the galaxy. 300 years later they can claim the galaxy has fixed itsself, and it's a NEW problem.

 

(Before you ask for more proof, then you provide real proof that the majority of KOTOR fans are glad to know Revan and the Exile died and failed)

yes, I AM glad they're dead.

[TKA-001]

yes, I AM glad they're dead.

I second that, and anyone who believes that they should have succeeded with few or no casualties on the part of them and their party members (predictable sacrifices on the part of Atton, Bastila, Carth, and any other potential sacrifice-ees notwithstanding) officially has no imagination.

[Darth_Yuthura]

It takes place long after K2 because K3 would HAVE to revolve around fixing the galaxy. 300 years later they can claim the galaxy has fixed itsself, and it's a NEW problem.

 

Then this is not KOTOR at all. This means that you've proven my point. Anyone who wanted KOTOR III will find that Lucasarts has given them something completely different.

 

They haven't fixed the old problem before they started the new one.

 

yes, I AM glad they're dead.

 

No, you are an individual who stands alone on this. That's a bit arrogant for you to claim your opinion is worth so much.

[Tommycat]

My biggest gripes with KotOR were that they weren't long enough. I wanted more. The first was complete, but just a bit too short. TSL was incomplete and short. That is the advantage of the MMO. It is able to have a huge long lasting story. Far greater than could be squished onto a single DVD. I mean I really wanted to explore the worlds. I wanted to wander around and see what all else there was. Instead I had barricades that could not be crossed. The tombs were tiny(for the most part). City planets that you only see tiny fractions of. When you have terabytes of storage, you can have a huge game. I don't like buying a bunch of games. I'd rather buy one that I can play for a long time. So in essence, I'm saying that yes I wanted TOR instead of KotORIII

 

They finished the story lines. They disposed of the main characters. If Revan had been in the second game as the antagonist or protagonist, I can see how you could draw the parallel to the films. but a cameo appearance and mentioning him going off to fight the true Sith, basically sealed his fate. If Vader or Luke had not been in Empire would a third movie have been made?

 

edit: Oh and I'm glad they are dead too.

[TKA-001]

No, you are an individual who stands alone on this. Arrogant enough to believe your opinion is worth so much?

*Snipped* What matters is whether he's right or not, not how many of him there are. Do you seriously suggest that your opinion outranks his just because there's more of you than him?

While I appreciate the thought, backseat moderating is not needed. In the future, please use the Report function.

 

~T_A

[True_Avery]

No, you are an individual who stands alone on this. Arrogant enough to believe your opinion is worth so much?

You have already been informed of your flaming and disregard for the opinions of others. You have been given 1 Infraction. If you continue to act in this behavior, harsher action will be taken. Any questions can be directed at me via the Private Message system.

 

If you, or anyone else would like to see the rules then please visit these two links:

Forum Rules: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=193186

Infractions: http://www.lucasforums.com/faq.php?faq=lf_faq#faq_lf_faq_infractions

[Yar-El]

If you object to what I say, then why don't you try to convince me that TOR is better 300 years after KOTOR than 5-20 after TSL. Why would KOTOR fans be glad to know that the ending goes badly?

I know this is not a question for me; however, I will give you a good reason why 300 is better. Hidden in the tombs and characters on Korriban and Dantooine you learn about the past. We searched through tombs and consoles to learn about the older Jedi and Sith generations. Knights of the Old Republic opened this new stretch of Star Wars history. Making a third game anywhere close to the events of The Sith Lords would be completely repetitive. We already know about the past; thus, there would be nothing new to learn. Exploring the tombs and archives deep into the future will recapture the essence of Knights 1. Why? There will be newer stories to tell, and a good 300 years of history to catch up with. Revan and Exile are now legends. Questions The Old Republic will answer may include - What happened to Revan and Exile? - What happened when Revan confronted the Sith Emporer? - Did Revan and Exile get together? - Did Revan and Exile clash in combat? - What happened to the world around them? Starting a game right after they left will give you nothing new. There is no more history to learn. We now have 300 years of history to shift through. We may learn about the rise and fall of new Sith Lords.

 

Knights 1 provided us with a fully functional Dantooine and Korriban. Knights II provided us with the Jedi Civil War aftermath; thus, Dantooine and Korriban were in a complete mess. There was no more mysteries to solve on these planets. Homes to the Sith and Jedi were completely wipped out. Putting the game 300 years into the future will return us to grave robbing, artifact finding, and many other elements made famous in Knights 1.

 

Knights 2 left some unanswered questions; however, you don't really learn anything epic about Sith and Jedi history. Go back to those feeling you had during Knights 1. You searched all these tombs and mysterious locations. Everything felt very large and epic. You felt as though you really belonged to something. Knights 2 was not an expansion of anything epic; therefore, you only learn about the fate of only a few historical players. We have more history to explore on both sides. Exploring rebuilt or never before seen tombs on Korriban is awsome.

 

My only problem is - Should this have been a single player game? I'm all open to the 300 years of history to learn and explore; however, I'm not too thrilled about a multiplayer game. I haven't made up my mind. I also don't have any experience in playing a MMORPG; thus, there is something for me to gain from this experience.

[True_Avery]

No. We don't. Even considering the possibility of Revan, the Exile, or any of their companions being alive for so long is absurd.

HK-47 is "alive" and well, and I bet T3 is as well.

 

I'm saying the possibility is there. Currently we do not know, do we? This is all speculation on our part. Consider we had a Sith that can devour an entire planet, a Sith that tried to kill the Force, and a Forge that can make an infinite army by feeding off a Sun and a Sith, I'd say that the Old Republic story is pretty open for absurd things happening.

 

Besides, I never said alive. I said "Out there in some way", which people like Exar have flexed around. They don't need to be "alive" to be apart of the story, and it seems that there are quite a few inventive ways to keep on existing in the Star Wars universe.

 

Darth Sion kept going by holding himself together with the Force. Nihilus/Exile are basically walking natural disasters instead of people. Exar locked his spirit away in a temple and stayed there for 4,000 years.

 

Not saying they -are-. I'm saying that with all that has happened and how Mary Sue these two characters are, its up for speculation as to if they are still around or not in my personal opinion.

 

I second that, and anyone who believes that they should have succeeded with few or no casualties on the part of them and their party members (predictable sacrifices on the part of Bastila, Carth, or other potential sacrifice-ees notwithstanding) has no imagination.

Well, you can go talk to Avelone first for making Revan always win with the TSL story. Other than that, the story and sacrifices were pretty player specific.

 

Which is why, personally, I think a 300 year gap leaves a nice opening for more choices and situations now that we are not confined to many of the decisions of K1 and TSL.

[Yar-El]

Besides, I never said alive. I said "Out there in some way", which people like Exar have flexed around. They don't need to be "alive" to be apart of the story, and it seems that there are quite a few inventive ways to keep on existing in the Star Wars universe.

 

Which is why, personally, I think a 300 year gap leaves a nice opening for more choices and situations now that we are not confined to many of the decisions of K1 and TSL.

Everything is new again. Playing a game 10 years after Revan and Exile's departure will give us nothing new. 300 years of new history is a pretty nice way to start fresh. Those screenshots make The Old Republic feel epic again.

[John Galt]

IMO you really can't compare the two in terms of gameplay or story progression. At least the franchise as a whole continues, and we get a delicious MMO to occupy our time until the next proper KotOR game comes.

[RyuuKage]

No. We don't. Even considering the possibility of Revan, the Exile, or any of their companions being alive for so long is absurd.

 

Carbon Freeze....

 

also, if you read the entry on the Sith Empire, it mentions that the Sith Emperor has been keeping himself alive apparently since the time of Revan/Exile through Sith magics.

 

plenty of ways to live longer in SW, heck just being a Force user increases your natural life expectancy a few decades...

[TKA-001]

Even if they can plausibly survive for 300 years, that doesn't change how lame it would be. Geeze, even Luke Freaking Skywalker died at some point.

[True_Avery]

Even if they can plausibly survive for 300 years, that doesn't change how lame it would be. Geeze, even Luke Freaking Skywalker died at some point.

Yeah, agreed. It would still be a punch in the face if it happened, and I wouldn't put it past them to do it either.

[RyuuKage]

Even if they can plausibly survive for 300 years, that doesn't change how lame it would be. Geeze, even Luke Freaking Skywalker died at some point.

 

amen

 

on that note, who wants to place bets as to the identity of the as-yet-unnamed Sith Emperor? XD