The Doctor Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Oh you mean all those things about the fact he's tied to William Ayers? Which is true by the way. No. No, it isn't. It's been exaggerated beyond amazement by cronies of the Republican party in one of the most blatant smear campaigns of the modern political age. Or Rev. Wright? Which is true Another exaggerated claim, with absolutely no proof of its effects on Obama's own opinions, beliefs, or choices beyond the massive leaps in logic made by people such as yourself. Or Rezko -- which is also true I'll admit to not having done sufficient research to outright deny Obama's ties to Rezko - though I'll say again, there is absolutely no proof of its effects on Obama's own opinions, beliefs, or choices Seriously, the media's shear lack of investigating of Obama's ties is proof in and of itself that there is a serious bias problem to say the least. Until you can pose valid evidence that indicates, beyond reasonable doubt, that these so called "affiliations" have an impact on Obama's beliefs or ideals, your argument is 100% invalid. Plain and simple. This isn't the thread for that, though. Obama discussion is for the Obama thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Fact is that what McCain brought up is legit as we're seeing with the Governor of Illinois. 1. McCain didn't really bring up Blagojevich. 2. Blagojevich/Obama connection isn't legit - they seem to have no real dealings together. 3. Double standard. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Yeah, you're right. Obama is the only politician with questionable ties to people. There couldn't possibly be a single "bad" person linked to Bush or McCain. Investigating ties and issues with national security is, quite frankly, not the media's jobs. Their supposed job is to get it out and about. They are not ****ing batman or spiderman. They are not supposed to find something, and then get a bunch of reporters together to physically kill or arrest someone. Guess what? It is out and about. You know about it. I know about it. The American people know about it. If it was a serious, serious problem then I'd question our background check system for Presidents over some guys with cameras trying to get to their next paycheck. Seriously. If Obama met Ayers at their house every couple of weeks and built bombs, sacrificed babies, and so on then don't you THINK that the FBI would have something to say about him trying to be president? If having a crazy pastor made you an issue to national security, wouldn't every fundamentalist church be shut down and those in it placed in Guantanamo? It is against no law to have a crazy pastor. It is against no law to know someone who has blown the hell out of buildings in his life. If either were an issue of national security, then he wouldn't of been allowed on the ballet. The media is biased? Wow, great find. I'll inform anyone that has not been living under a rock. The fact of the matter is, it ISN'T being covered up because YOU KNOW ABOUT IT. It was all over the news for months! Both on right and left wing news, they got mentioned in some way or form. Obama got elected. Sorry if that wound has not healed yet, but the American people voted for this guy and he got in. Even though his ties ran through the news and McCain and Palin did their best to spread it, he still got voted in. If you have an issue with that, then go live in some dictatorship that has taken the burden of democracy off your shoulders. Democracy and the media can't fail when its all controlled by the top 1%. oh wait... When Obama gets into office, we'll see how he does. If he goes bonkers and nukes Kansas because he loves seeing babies burn... I think we'll know in a hurry. Seriously, the media's shear lack of investigating of Obama's ties is proof in and of itself that there is a serious bias problem to say the least. Yeah, ties are funny things. Lets take a look at some of McCain's, shall we? Jim Hensley, Convicted Felon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Hensley A WWII bombadier, Hensley returned to the United States with an injury sustained while flying over Europe. While recovering, he met Margueritte Smith and left his wife and two-year old daughter for Smith whom he married in 1945. That same year, he and his brother Eugene began working for Kemper Marley, owner of United Sales Company in Phoenix and United Distributors in Tucson, and purported mafia boss. In a 1953 New Mexico State Police report, Kemper Marley, "is reputed to be the financial backer for the bookies" and "owned a wire service formerly operated in connection with bookmaking of the Al Capone gang." And though never charged, Marley is suspected of ordering the car bomb assassination of journalist Ken Bolles in 1976. In 1948, Jim and Eugene Hensley were indicted for falsifying liquor records to conceal illegal distribution of whiskey against post-war rationing regulations. Both men were convicted in U.S. District Court on federal charges of conspiracy and Jim Hensley was also convicted on seven counts of filing false liquor records. In 1953 Jim Hensley and Kemper Marley were again charged with falsifying liquor records. This time Jim was defended by future Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist. Both men were acquitted. In spite of being a convicted felon, Jim Hensley was somehow granted a state liquor license in 1955 (and later a federal liquor license) to found a beer distributorship. Hensley later switched to distributing exclusively Anheuser-Busch beer, and by 1980 Hensley & Co. Distributors and Hensley & Co. Wholesale had made Jim Hensley a multi-millionaire. Read more about McCain and Hensley in the article Haunted By Spirits by John Doughtery and Amy Silverman. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Hensley was Cindy McCain's father, John McCain worked for Hensley as Vice President of Public Relations for Hensley & Co. when he and Cindy first married, and Hensley used his money and influence to launch John McCain's political career. G. Gordon Liddy, Convicted Felon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Gordon_Liddy iddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role as mastermind of the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers. Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in "if necessary"; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a "gangland figure" to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap "leftist guerillas" at the 1972 Republican National Convention — a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis. (The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents — telling listeners, "Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests" — and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton. Liddy has donated $5,000 to McCain's campaigns since 1998, including $1,000 in February 2008. In addition, McCain has appeared on Liddy's radio show during the presidential campaign, including as recently as May. An online video labeled John McCain On The G. Gordon Liddy Show 11/8/07 includes an audio discussion between Liddy and McCain, whom Liddy described as an "old friend." During the segment, McCain praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great," said he was "proud" of Liddy, and said that "it's always a pleasure for me to come on your program." Liddy called for the murder of federal agents, served time in jail, plotted murder - and after that, John McCain applauded him and took his money. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: In 1998 Liddy hosted a campaign fundraiser for McCain and McCain has accepted campaign donations from Liddy over the last a decade, most recently in February 2008. McCain has appeared as a guest on Liddy's radio show multiple times, most recently in November 2007 during the presidential campign when Liddy greeted McCain as "an old friend." During the interview, Mccain stated he was "proud" of Liddy and praised Liddy for his "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great." Charles Keating, Convicted Felon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Keating Charles H. Keating, Jr., is the former chairman of the Lincoln Savings and Loan Association. The "Keating Five" were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s. McCain and four other senators were accused of improperly aiding Keating., chairman of the failed Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, which was the target of an investigation by the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB). McCain received $112,000 by 1987 from Keating and Keating's relatives and employees to McCain's Senate campaign, more than any of the other Senators. In addition to campaign contributions, McCain's wife and her father had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. It was also found that the McCains, sometimes accompanied by their daughter and baby-sitter, had made at least nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard the American Continental Corporation (parent of Lincoln) jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain also did not pay Keating for some of the trips until years after they were taken, after he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln. The Lincoln Savings and Loan's collapse cost taxpayers $3.4 billion After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee criticized McCain for "questionable conduct," and did not mete harsher punishment because of McCain's future presidential ambitions. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: John McCain was a close personal friend of Charles Keating, McCain and his family vacationed at Keating's Bahamas mansion, Cindy McCain had investments with Keating. Raffaello Follieri, Convicted Felon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raffaello_Follieri In late August, 2006, McCain celebrated his 70th birthday aboard a yacht, the Celine Ashley, rented by Raffaello Follieri and his then-movie star girlfriend Anne Hathaway. Follieri, who posed as Vatican chief financial officer in order to win friends and investments, pleaded guilty in a Manhattan district court to conspiracy to commit wire fraud, eight counts of wire fraud and five counts of money laundering. As part of the plea, Follieri admitted to misappropriating at least $2.4 million of investor money and redirecting it to foreign personal bank accounts that were disguised as business accounts. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: McCain spent his 70th birthday aboard Follieri's yacht in August 2006. Rep. Rick Renzi, Under Indictment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Renzi Renzi, Arizona Congressman 2002-2008, is currently under indictment for conspiracy, wire fraud, money laundering, concealment of money laundering, transactions with criminally derived funds, extortion, insurance fraud and criminal forfeiture. In robocalls to assist Renzi in his re-election bid in October 2006, McCain stated, "Rick has represented the first district of Arizona with tenacity, honesty and integrity beyond reproach." The indictment also names business associate James Sandlin, and Maryland attorney Andrew Beardall. The indictment also refers to two companies involved in the transactions, Company A and Investment Group B. Prosecutors allege Renzi criminally concealed information about land deals to both Company A and Investment Group B, and used his seat on the House Natural Resources Committee to try to force their hand. The indictment says Renzi was trying to help his business associate, Sandlin, finish paying off an $800,000 loan Sandlin owed to Renzi. Renzi was in financial straits and needed the money and also states Renzi also never claimed the $733,000 in his 2006 House financial disclosure statements. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Until February 2008, Renzi was co-chair of McCain's Arizona 2008 presidential campaign, member of McCain's 2008 National Leadership Team, and a personal friend. In October 2006, McCain stated, "Rick has represented the first district of Arizona with tenacity, honesty and integrity beyond reproach." Rick Davis, McCain Campaign Manager & Freddie Mac Lobbyist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Davis_(politics) Davis is currently John McCain's campaign manager in his bid for the U.S. presidency. Davis' lobbying firm — Davis Manafort — received payments of $15,000 a month between 2006 and August 2008 from Freddie Mac, the troubled mortgage giant that was recently placed under federal conservatorship. As the mortgage crisis has escalated, almost any association with Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae has become politically toxic. But the payments to Davis's firm, Davis Manafort, are especially problematic because he requested the consulting retainer in 2006 — and then did barely any work for the fees, according to two sources familiar with the arrangement who asked not to be identified discussing Freddie Mac business. Aside from attending a few breakfasts and a political-action-committee meeting with Democratic strategist Paul Begala (another Freddie consultant), Davis did "zero" for the housing firm, one of the sources said. Freddie Mac also had no dealings with the lobbying firm beyond paying monthly invoices — but it agreed to the arrangement because of Davis's close relationship with McCain, the source said, which led top executives to conclude "you couldn't say no." Freddie Mac's roughly $500,000 in payments to Davis & Manafort began immediately after Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae in late 2005 disbanded an advocacy coalition that they had set up and hired Mr. Davis to run. From 2000 to the end of 2005, Davis received nearly $2 million as president of the coalition, the Homeownership Alliance, which the companies created to help them oppose new regulations and protect their status as federally chartered companies with implicit government backing. That status let them borrow cheaply, helping to fuel rapid growth but also their increased purchases of the risky mortgage securities that were their downfall. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Davis is currently John McCain's presidential campaign director, and McCain told Newsweek in 2007 "Rick is a friend, and I trust him." Charles Black, Jr., Senior Advisor To McCain Campaign http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_R._Black,_Jr. Currently a chief strategist and senior adviser for John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign, in June 2008, Charlie Black stated in an interview with Fortune magazine that another terrorist attack on the United States would "Certainly it would be a big advantage to him." Black is a registered as a lobbyist and is chairman of one of Washington's lobbying powerhouses, BKSH and Associates. His clients have included right-wing guerrilla leader Jonas Savimbi of Angola and such dictators as Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines and Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire, as well as Nigerian General Ibrahim Babangida, Somali President Mohamed Siad Barre, the Embassy of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the countries of Kenya and Equatorial Guinea, among others. As of February 2008, Black said he is still being paid by his firm and does work for clients in his "spare time," recusing himself from lobbying McCain: "I not only do not lobby him [McCain], but if an issue comes up that I have a client on, I will tell him that and stay out of the discussion." Though McCain often portrays himself as an anti-lobbyist politician, his senior advisor has earned more than $57 million dollars since 1998 as a Washington lobbyist. Some of his other clients include: Alcoa - $100,000; Amerada Hess Corp. - $80,000; American Financial Group - $80,000; Asoex Chilean Exporters Assn. - $40,000; AT&T - $1,185,000; AT&T Inc - $720,000; Bristol-Myers Squibb - $690,000; ChevronTexaco - $140,000; Chilean Salmon Farmers Assn. - $100,000; Colombian Textile & Apparel Industry - $80,000; Comasa, de la Optica - $80,000; Contran Corp. - $505,000; Freddie Mac - $820,000; Glaxo Wellcome Inc - $40,000; GlaxoSmithKline - $590,000; Global Strategies Group - $180,000; Honeywell International - $220,000; Importers Service Corp. - $540,000; International Franchise Assn. - $290,000; JP Morgan & Co - $140,000; JP Morgan Chase & Co - $724,000; Lockheed Martin - $487,500; Mortgage Bankers Assn. of America - $140,000; National Assn. of Mortgage Brokers - $60,000; National Foreign Trade Council - $40,000; Occidental Petroleum - $1,650,000; Occidental Petroleum - $1,650,000; Philip Morris - $1,292,500; Tobacco Quota Warehouse Alliance - $120,000; Yukos Oil - $155,000; HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Charles Black is McCain's current chief strategist and a senior advisor to his 2008 presidential campaign. Black said he is still being paid by his firm and does work for clients in his "spare time". Richard Quinn, White Supremist Beginning in 1981, Richard Quinn became the Executive Editor in Chief of the racist Southern Partisan Quarterly Review and as was still listed as the owner of the magazine as recently as 2005. Like McCain did originally, Quinn opposed the Martin Luther King holiday, writing it "should have been rejected because its purpose is vitriolic and profane." In 2000, People For American Way called on McCain to fire Quinn, listing his disparaging of Nelson Mandela as a "terrorist," his promotion of David Duke ("What better way to reject politics as usual than to elect a maverick like David Duke?") and his selling of t-shirts praising Abraham Lincoln's assassination. McCain wouldn't fire him. He rejected the guilt-by-association charge, defending the man and disavowing the publication. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: The Washington Post described Quinn as the "longtime adviser [who] directed the senator to a crucial victory in the Palmetto State." Politico reported that McCain paid Quinn's firms $184,000. An article that was posted on McCain's website in 2008 — that is no longer available — described Quinn as "a senior political consultant to the McCain campaign." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/05/AR2008040502222.html?nav=rss_politics http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7604.html Pastor John Hagee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee In a 2006 address, Hagee stated, "The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West... a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ." Over the years, Hagee the right-wing pastor has waged "an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church" by "calling it 'The Great Whore,' an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' and a 'false cult system.'" During an interview with National Public Radio, Hagee also blamed Hurricane Katrina on gays, saying the devastating storm "was, in fact, the judgment of God against ... New Orleans." The city, he continued, "had a level of sin that was offensive to God" because "there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came." HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Despite McCain's statement in 2000 that "Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right," McCain spent more than a year actively seeking Hagee's endorsement. In February 2008, McCain stated, "I'm very honored by Pastor John Hagee's endorsement today." Only after public outcry did McCain repudiate Hagee. Pastor Rod Parsley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Parsley Parsley has stated that "Islam is an anti-Christ religion that intends through violence to conquer the world." Parsley has further stated that "The fact is that America was founded — I'm gonna stagger you right now — America was founded in part with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed." He also said that Mohammed received revelations from demon spirits. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: McCain actively sought Parsley's support to get evangelical votes. In February 2008, McCain stated, "I'm truly honored today to have one of one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide — Pastor Rod Parsley." Again, after public outrage over Parsley, McCain was forced to repudiate him. Todd Palin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Palin Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's husband, Todd, twice registered as a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a fierce states' rights group whose primary goal is for the state of Alaska to secede from the United States. Sarah Palin herself was never a member of the party, according to state officials. Founded in 1973 by Joe Vogler, Vogler stated, "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions." "Keep up the good work," Sarah Palin told members of the Alaskan Independence Party in a videotaped speech to their 2008 convention six months ago in Fairbanks. She wished the party luck on what she called its "inspiring convention." HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Todd Palin is the husband of McCain's vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin, Sarah Palin has attended their conventions and Sarah Palin herself sent them a videotaped address for their 2008 convention, telling them to "keep up the good work." Wow, what a list. Some more Sources for your book burning festival: http://www.houstonpress.com/2000-03-02/news/this-bud-s-for-john/print http://www.publicintegrity.org/blog/entry/364/ http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2000-02-17/news/haunted-by-spirits/ http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/84094.php http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93708729 http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_219.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/23/us/politics/23mccain.html?pagewanted=2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Hensley http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/23/politics/politico/thecrypt... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331872,00.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_Gordon_Liddy http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/10/05/mccains-terror-connection-g-gordon-liddy/ http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080929/berman_ames http://www.newsweek.com/id/161218 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/us/politics/w24davis.html http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/02/7302_charlie_black_j.html http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/mccain-adviser.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/21/... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0404wrightapr03,0,92000.story http://www.liberaloasis.com/2008/04/mccain_guiltbyassociation_for.php http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26524024/ http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-aip3-2008sep03,0,6399468.story http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/28/hagee-mccain-endorsement/ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/06/business/main4422652.shtml http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-ayers7-2008oct07,0,1083099.story http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?_r=2... 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The Doctor Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I do believe the internet has a new winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Some more Sources for your book burning festival: http://www.houstonpress.com/2000-03-02/news/this-bud-s-for-john/print http://www.publicintegrity.org/blog/entry/364/ http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2000-02-17/news/haunted-by-spirits/ http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/84094.php http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93708729 http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_219.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/23/us/politics/23mccain.html?pagewanted=2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Hensley http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/23/politics/politico/thecrypt... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331872,00.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_Gordon_Liddy http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/10/05/mccains-terror-connection-g-gordon-liddy/ http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080929/berman_ames http://www.newsweek.com/id/161218 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/us/politics/w24davis.html http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/02/7302_charlie_black_j.html http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/mccain-adviser.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/21/... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0404wrightapr03,0,92000.story http://www.liberaloasis.com/2008/04/mccain_guiltbyassociation_for.php http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26524024/ http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-aip3-2008sep03,0,6399468.story http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/28/hagee-mccain-endorsement/ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/06/business/main4422652.shtml http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-ayers7-2008oct07,0,1083099.story http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?_r=2... First, uncool with the bookburning reference. Second, Sooo are you saying that more news agencies covered McCain's ties than Obama's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 First, uncool with the bookburning reference. Oh, ok. Here is a picture instead. Seems to fit nicely into the current trend of burning everyone's sources down in Kavars. Second, Sooo are you saying that more news agencies covered McCain's ties than Obama's? No. I'm simply pointing out to Garfield that his candidate was not the angelic gift from god he's been making him out to be, and that in reality nearly all politicians have a dirty set of friends in order to get where they are. Its part of the job description. And, I'm not one to make that sort of generalization. I have not watched all of the news stations, and I'm not a machine, so I don't know the hard numbers on bias. But, from my experience with this election, it seems that Obama's ties got more "attention" than McCain, whether it be the agency pointing it out or trying to make it look prettier with flowers. Obama may have won simply out of the popularity he got. It was not always good popularity, but his name seemed to be everywhere in one way or another. McCain's ad hit it pretty spot on when they called him a celebrity, but the ironic thing was it was he who was helping Obama get his name into every story. Its a popularity contest. The person that has the most air time and spends the most money tends to be the one that wins. McCain helped Obama out in 2 ways: By using smear campaigns that would guarantee Obama air time in some fashion, and by working off of a budget while Obama did the smart thing and spent as much money as he could as fast as he could to further guarantee that he was on your TV as much as freaking possible. As Michael Moore points out when he got chewed on for Far 9/11 and Sicko: having bad publicity is still publicity. Sure, they are chewing you out, but your name gets onto the television and your movie/campaign gets free airtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machievelli Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 A personal note on Media Bias: As you all know, I am a pretty opinionated guy. I say what I think and pull no punches. About a week into Desert Shield (The Allied bombing campaign before Desert Storm) I got sick of hearing liberal crap about the US, and I wrote an article. That article was called; Buzzwords. The Article took all of the buzzwords and phrases from both sides and explained not only what they meant, but how they were using them to get kneee jerk reactions in the press. I handed it to the LA times (Take my word for it, there is no more liberal rag unless you point to the New York Times) They took it, with a codicil of first refusal; I.E., they can hold it until they refuse to print it. It is now 18 years, and they still have not printed it, or refused to print it. Oh yeah, I still have a copy of it somewhere on my computer or recorded media, if you want to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 A personal note on Media Bias: As you all know, I am a pretty opinionated guy. I say what I think and pull no punches. About a week into Desert Shield (The Allied bombing campaign before Desert Storm) I got sick of hearing liberal crap about the US, and I wrote an article. That article was called; Buzzwords. So... "Liberals" are the only ones that use buzzwords? I believe "liberal" and "conservative" are wonderful buzzwords used by both sides. I know you said "both sides", but I find that hard to follow within a paragraph containing "liberal rag" in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 So... "Liberals" are the only ones that use buzzwords? I believe "liberal" and "conservative" are wonderful buzzwords used by both sides. I know you said "both sides", but I find that hard to follow within a paragraph containing "liberal rag" in it. Liberal rag being LA Times. It's hard to argue against the LA Times being "Liberal." There are conservative rags as well(like the Colorado Springs Gazette). Then of course there are the neo-con rags. I've heard many people refer to their local paper as the local rag. So it fits to call it a liberal rag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Liberal rag being LA Times. It's hard to argue against the LA Times being "Liberal." There are conservative rags as well(like the Colorado Springs Gazette). Then of course there are the neo-con rags. I've heard many people refer to their local paper as the local rag. So it fits to call it a liberal rag. Fair enough to say I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machievelli Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 So... "Liberals" are the only ones that use buzzwords? I believe "liberal" and "conservative" are wonderful buzzwords used by both sides. I know you said "both sides", but I find that hard to follow within a paragraph containing "liberal rag" in it. I dislike the upper crust liberals ever since Micheal Moore when accused of lying in one of his 'documentaries' replied to the charge; 'A lie in pursuit of peace is not a lie.' I should also mention I loathe full bore conservatives just as much. I used them all because the government has it's own buzzwords to attract favorable public response. My favorite in that regard has always been Collateral damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 A personal note on Media Bias: As you all know, I am a pretty opinionated guy. I say what I think and pull no punches. About a week into Desert Shield (The Allied bombing campaign before Desert Storm) I got sick of hearing liberal crap about the US, and I wrote an article. That article was called; Buzzwords. That's neat. Let's also remember that a Conservative president, the Senior George Bush, was in office during Desert Storm, and that typically, the current losing party, especially in the kind of people you dislike, tends to be the most vocal. Something to think about regarding several threads in Kavar's. Let me also point out that, during this particular presidential election, I watched both sides of the argument, made sure to catch nearly every rally and every public speaking for both McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden. During that time, and I'm not sure whether or not this is true, because Liberals are known to delete the news (), but for the most part, the majority of the attacks, smear campaigns, and buzzwords used were against Obama, a few choice words and phrases being: Barack "Hussein" Obama Pals around with Terrorists White Flag of Surrender the "real" Barack Obama There are more, I'm sure, but those are a choice few examples. I'm not saying that Obama didn't use some buzzwords of his own, like, "McCain = the same", but none that I can remember being as popular as those other ones, while still being an offensive against his opponent. In fact, the only real buzzwords I remember from Obama later in the election, when the mudslinging was supposed to stop, were: Change Yes we can Change you can believe in But most of those are backed up by his many political policies, which do call for the beginnings of drastic change in the US, change that he is making radical steps toward achieving. And you wonder why the man won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machievelli Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 That's neat. Let's also remember that a Conservative president, the Senior George Bush, was in office during Desert Storm, and that typically, the current losing party, especially in the kind of people you dislike, tends to be the most vocal. Something to think about regarding several threads in Kavar's. Let me also point out that, during this particular presidential election, I watched both sides of the argument, made sure to catch nearly every rally and every public speaking for both McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden. During that time, and I'm not sure whether or not this is true, because Liberals are known to delete the news (), but for the most part, the majority of the attacks, smear campaigns, and buzzwords used were against Obama, a few choice words and phrases being: Barack "Hussein" Obama Pals around with Terrorists White Flag of Surrender the "real" Barack Obama There are more, I'm sure, but those are a choice few examples. I'm not saying that Obama didn't use some buzzwords of his own, like, "McCain = the same", but none that I can remember being as popular as those other ones, while still being an offensive against his opponent. In fact, the only real buzzwords I remember from Obama later in the election, when the mudslinging was supposed to stop, were: Change Yes we can Change you can believe in But most of those are backed up by his many political policies, which do call for the beginnings of drastic change in the US, change that he is making radical steps toward achieving. And you wonder why the man won. Considering the half billion the parties spent this election, I am never surprised by who won. Oh, BTW, the reason I got ticked was not that a conservative president was attacked. As far as I am concerned, no one since Theodore Roosevelt was worth the effort. The fact is, both sides used buzz words, both claim their buzzwords are the truth, and the truth has nothing to do with what they say on either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 This thread is closed until myself and Jae have a chance to review, currently I am considerably busy with real life, so can't give this the time it deserves until tomorrow -- j7 Thread re-opened -- j7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Adavardes, below are links to different news agencies about the discovery of the chemical weapons cache by the NGIC. All the news sources I looked up acknowledged that the Senators called them 'weapons of mass destruction' except the NY Times, which used the semantic cop-out of 'unconventional weapons.' Call it what it is, please, NYT--the thousands of Kurds who were injured and slaughtered by Hussein deserve that courtesy. In any case, Fox was not the only news source to use the term 'weapons of mass destruction' as you claimed. CNN didn't acknowledge that the source the Senators were using was a portion of the NGIC report that had been declassified and released that day--I think that was a disappointing and important omission, because quoting the source the senators got the information from was salient. Now, if you're arguing that Fox has a conservative/pro-GOP bias, I agree with you. However, you said Fox was inaccurate. I have yet to find an inaccuracy in the article you provided, and in fact the information they provide is corroborated by other news sources. CNN report--scroll down to "Hundreds of old chemical shells found...." Chicago Tribune The Washington Post NYT calls it 'unconventional weapons'. In terms of providing detail, Fox did a better job on the story than any of these other sources. I thought how the different sources covered it was interesting as well. Unbiased? None of them are. Fox inaccurate in their reporting? I'm not seeing it. If you have other examples of inaccuracies, please post them, because the Fox article you linked does not appear to meet the criteria of inaccurate. I'd love to see what other reasons people come up with. I listed a few before. I'm sure others will be added as the thread progresses. If that came across as trying to shut you out, I apologize. I was trying to encourage others to join in with us--when we get going back and forth, I've noticed some people have a tendency not to join in the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 I'm going to point out that if that level of scrutiny that Achilles sources used to try to dig up any piece of dirt they could find against McCain was also turned towards Obama, I sincerely doubt Obama would have been President. The New York Times got caught reporting a bogus story about McCain in 2008. CBS got caught using forged documents in 2004 to try to smear President Bush, at least with the Swift Boat Vets, they were who they said they were, this "source" forged another man's signature. Additionally the documents were so poorly forged the fact CBS "fell for it" is a laugh, it was outright slander. Furthermore there was the bogus photos in 2006 during the Israeli/Lebanon conflict, and I'm just getting started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I'm just getting started. I don't doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 I don't doubt it. The approximately 900+ doctored photos in the Israeli/Lebanon war in 2006, and that is just reuters. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,208160,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I'm going to point out that if that level of scrutiny that Achilles sources used to try to dig up any piece of dirt they could find against McCain was also turned towards Obama, I sincerely doubt Obama would have been President.??? So where was your beloved FakeNews then? Was their "level of scrutiny" horribly inept or did the thinking public see through their "Fair and Balanced" reporting? I can't wait to see just how you plan to try to have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 ??? So where was your beloved FakeNews then? Was their "level of scrutiny" horribly inept or did the thinking public see through their "Fair and Balanced" reporting? I can't wait to see just how you plan to try to have it both ways. Actually according to the information I posted on this forum Fox News was the most balanced source this election. I'm saying all the other "news agencies" aren't news agencies anymore, they're propaganda pulpits for the far-left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Actually according to the information I posted on this forum Fox News was the most balanced source this election. Never proven, ever. EVER. Obama stories by Fox News: http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/12/obamas-controversial-pastor-puts-church-in-hot-water/ http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/14/obamas-spiritual-adviser-questioned-us-role-in-spread-of-hiv-sept-11-attacks/ McCain stories by Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440632,00.html http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/08/31/mccain-talks-palin-on-fox-news-sunday/ Yeah, not biased at all. They talk about McCain's actual policies, but bomb out Obama for his "pastor", his "spiritual adviser", and other nonsense. Yup. Totally fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Yup. Totally fair.You forgot "balanced". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 Yeah, not biased at all. They talk about McCain's actual policies, but bomb out Obama for his "pastor", his "spiritual adviser", and other nonsense. Yup. Totally fair. So you're saying Rev. Wright's (whom was Obama's pastor and spiritual adviser" comments, "*** **** America..." aren't contraversial? Or how bout "US KKKA"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 So you're saying Rev. Wright's (whom was Obama's pastor and spiritual adviser" comments, "*** **** America..." aren't contraversial? Or how bout "US KKKA"? Let's just pretend I give a ****, and that these attacks on Obama are justified (they're not). Where's the Fox News stories on McCain's discrepancies? Hm? About his "past affiliations", that have more basis in fact than anything ever printed by Fox News on all the big bad people Obama "associates with"? Where are the stories about, hold on, let's see... Jim Hensley, Convicted Felon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Hensley A WWII bombadier, Hensley returned to the United States with an injury sustained while flying over Europe. While recovering, he met Margueritte Smith and left his wife and two-year old daughter for Smith whom he married in 1945. That same year, he and his brother Eugene began working for Kemper Marley, owner of United Sales Company in Phoenix and United Distributors in Tucson, and purported mafia boss. In a 1953 New Mexico State Police report, Kemper Marley, "is reputed to be the financial backer for the bookies" and "owned a wire service formerly operated in connection with bookmaking of the Al Capone gang." And though never charged, Marley is suspected of ordering the car bomb assassination of journalist Ken Bolles in 1976. In 1948, Jim and Eugene Hensley were indicted for falsifying liquor records to conceal illegal distribution of whiskey against post-war rationing regulations. Both men were convicted in U.S. District Court on federal charges of conspiracy and Jim Hensley was also convicted on seven counts of filing false liquor records. In 1953 Jim Hensley and Kemper Marley were again charged with falsifying liquor records. This time Jim was defended by future Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist. Both men were acquitted. In spite of being a convicted felon, Jim Hensley was somehow granted a state liquor license in 1955 (and later a federal liquor license) to found a beer distributorship. Hensley later switched to distributing exclusively Anheuser-Busch beer, and by 1980 Hensley & Co. Distributors and Hensley & Co. Wholesale had made Jim Hensley a multi-millionaire. Read more about McCain and Hensley in the article Haunted By Spirits by John Doughtery and Amy Silverman. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Hensley was Cindy McCain's father, John McCain worked for Hensley as Vice President of Public Relations for Hensley & Co. when he and Cindy first married, and Hensley used his money and influence to launch John McCain's political career. G. Gordon Liddy, Convicted Felon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Gordon_Liddy iddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role as mastermind of the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers. Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in "if necessary"; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a "gangland figure" to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap "leftist guerillas" at the 1972 Republican National Convention — a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis. (The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents — telling listeners, "Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests" — and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton. Liddy has donated $5,000 to McCain's campaigns since 1998, including $1,000 in February 2008. In addition, McCain has appeared on Liddy's radio show during the presidential campaign, including as recently as May. An online video labeled John McCain On The G. Gordon Liddy Show 11/8/07 includes an audio discussion between Liddy and McCain, whom Liddy described as an "old friend." During the segment, McCain praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great," said he was "proud" of Liddy, and said that "it's always a pleasure for me to come on your program." Liddy called for the murder of federal agents, served time in jail, plotted murder - and after that, John McCain applauded him and took his money. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: In 1998 Liddy hosted a campaign fundraiser for McCain and McCain has accepted campaign donations from Liddy over the last a decade, most recently in February 2008. McCain has appeared as a guest on Liddy's radio show multiple times, most recently in November 2007 during the presidential campign when Liddy greeted McCain as "an old friend." During the interview, Mccain stated he was "proud" of Liddy and praised Liddy for his "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great." Charles Keating, Convicted Felon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Keating Charles H. Keating, Jr., is the former chairman of the Lincoln Savings and Loan Association. The "Keating Five" were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s. McCain and four other senators were accused of improperly aiding Keating., chairman of the failed Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, which was the target of an investigation by the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB). McCain received $112,000 by 1987 from Keating and Keating's relatives and employees to McCain's Senate campaign, more than any of the other Senators. In addition to campaign contributions, McCain's wife and her father had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. It was also found that the McCains, sometimes accompanied by their daughter and baby-sitter, had made at least nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard the American Continental Corporation (parent of Lincoln) jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain also did not pay Keating for some of the trips until years after they were taken, after he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln. The Lincoln Savings and Loan's collapse cost taxpayers $3.4 billion After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee criticized McCain for "questionable conduct," and did not mete harsher punishment because of McCain's future presidential ambitions. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: John McCain was a close personal friend of Charles Keating, McCain and his family vacationed at Keating's Bahamas mansion, Cindy McCain had investments with Keating. Raffaello Follieri, Convicted Felon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raffaello_Follieri In late August, 2006, McCain celebrated his 70th birthday aboard a yacht, the Celine Ashley, rented by Raffaello Follieri and his then-movie star girlfriend Anne Hathaway. Follieri, who posed as Vatican chief financial officer in order to win friends and investments, pleaded guilty in a Manhattan district court to conspiracy to commit wire fraud, eight counts of wire fraud and five counts of money laundering. As part of the plea, Follieri admitted to misappropriating at least $2.4 million of investor money and redirecting it to foreign personal bank accounts that were disguised as business accounts. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: McCain spent his 70th birthday aboard Follieri's yacht in August 2006. Rep. Rick Renzi, Under Indictment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Renzi Renzi, Arizona Congressman 2002-2008, is currently under indictment for conspiracy, wire fraud, money laundering, concealment of money laundering, transactions with criminally derived funds, extortion, insurance fraud and criminal forfeiture. In robocalls to assist Renzi in his re-election bid in October 2006, McCain stated, "Rick has represented the first district of Arizona with tenacity, honesty and integrity beyond reproach." The indictment also names business associate James Sandlin, and Maryland attorney Andrew Beardall. The indictment also refers to two companies involved in the transactions, Company A and Investment Group B. Prosecutors allege Renzi criminally concealed information about land deals to both Company A and Investment Group B, and used his seat on the House Natural Resources Committee to try to force their hand. The indictment says Renzi was trying to help his business associate, Sandlin, finish paying off an $800,000 loan Sandlin owed to Renzi. Renzi was in financial straits and needed the money and also states Renzi also never claimed the $733,000 in his 2006 House financial disclosure statements. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Until February 2008, Renzi was co-chair of McCain's Arizona 2008 presidential campaign, member of McCain's 2008 National Leadership Team, and a personal friend. In October 2006, McCain stated, "Rick has represented the first district of Arizona with tenacity, honesty and integrity beyond reproach." Rick Davis, McCain Campaign Manager & Freddie Mac Lobbyist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Davis_(politics) Davis is currently John McCain's campaign manager in his bid for the U.S. presidency. Davis' lobbying firm — Davis Manafort — received payments of $15,000 a month between 2006 and August 2008 from Freddie Mac, the troubled mortgage giant that was recently placed under federal conservatorship. As the mortgage crisis has escalated, almost any association with Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae has become politically toxic. But the payments to Davis's firm, Davis Manafort, are especially problematic because he requested the consulting retainer in 2006 — and then did barely any work for the fees, according to two sources familiar with the arrangement who asked not to be identified discussing Freddie Mac business. Aside from attending a few breakfasts and a political-action-committee meeting with Democratic strategist Paul Begala (another Freddie consultant), Davis did "zero" for the housing firm, one of the sources said. Freddie Mac also had no dealings with the lobbying firm beyond paying monthly invoices — but it agreed to the arrangement because of Davis's close relationship with McCain, the source said, which led top executives to conclude "you couldn't say no." Freddie Mac's roughly $500,000 in payments to Davis & Manafort began immediately after Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae in late 2005 disbanded an advocacy coalition that they had set up and hired Mr. Davis to run. From 2000 to the end of 2005, Davis received nearly $2 million as president of the coalition, the Homeownership Alliance, which the companies created to help them oppose new regulations and protect their status as federally chartered companies with implicit government backing. That status let them borrow cheaply, helping to fuel rapid growth but also their increased purchases of the risky mortgage securities that were their downfall. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Davis is currently John McCain's presidential campaign director, and McCain told Newsweek in 2007 "Rick is a friend, and I trust him." Charles Black, Jr., Senior Advisor To McCain Campaign http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_R._Black,_Jr. Currently a chief strategist and senior adviser for John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign, in June 2008, Charlie Black stated in an interview with Fortune magazine that another terrorist attack on the United States would "Certainly it would be a big advantage to him." Black is a registered as a lobbyist and is chairman of one of Washington's lobbying powerhouses, BKSH and Associates. His clients have included right-wing guerrilla leader Jonas Savimbi of Angola and such dictators as Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines and Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire, as well as Nigerian General Ibrahim Babangida, Somali President Mohamed Siad Barre, the Embassy of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the countries of Kenya and Equatorial Guinea, among others. As of February 2008, Black said he is still being paid by his firm and does work for clients in his "spare time," recusing himself from lobbying McCain: "I not only do not lobby him [McCain], but if an issue comes up that I have a client on, I will tell him that and stay out of the discussion." Though McCain often portrays himself as an anti-lobbyist politician, his senior advisor has earned more than $57 million dollars since 1998 as a Washington lobbyist. Some of his other clients include: Alcoa - $100,000; Amerada Hess Corp. - $80,000; American Financial Group - $80,000; Asoex Chilean Exporters Assn. - $40,000; AT&T - $1,185,000; AT&T Inc - $720,000; Bristol-Myers Squibb - $690,000; ChevronTexaco - $140,000; Chilean Salmon Farmers Assn. - $100,000; Colombian Textile & Apparel Industry - $80,000; Comasa, de la Optica - $80,000; Contran Corp. - $505,000; Freddie Mac - $820,000; Glaxo Wellcome Inc - $40,000; GlaxoSmithKline - $590,000; Global Strategies Group - $180,000; Honeywell International - $220,000; Importers Service Corp. - $540,000; International Franchise Assn. - $290,000; JP Morgan & Co - $140,000; JP Morgan Chase & Co - $724,000; Lockheed Martin - $487,500; Mortgage Bankers Assn. of America - $140,000; National Assn. of Mortgage Brokers - $60,000; National Foreign Trade Council - $40,000; Occidental Petroleum - $1,650,000; Occidental Petroleum - $1,650,000; Philip Morris - $1,292,500; Tobacco Quota Warehouse Alliance - $120,000; Yukos Oil - $155,000; HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Charles Black is McCain's current chief strategist and a senior advisor to his 2008 presidential campaign. Black said he is still being paid by his firm and does work for clients in his "spare time". Richard Quinn, White Supremist Beginning in 1981, Richard Quinn became the Executive Editor in Chief of the racist Southern Partisan Quarterly Review and as was still listed as the owner of the magazine as recently as 2005. Like McCain did originally, Quinn opposed the Martin Luther King holiday, writing it "should have been rejected because its purpose is vitriolic and profane." In 2000, People For American Way called on McCain to fire Quinn, listing his disparaging of Nelson Mandela as a "terrorist," his promotion of David Duke ("What better way to reject politics as usual than to elect a maverick like David Duke?") and his selling of t-shirts praising Abraham Lincoln's assassination. McCain wouldn't fire him. He rejected the guilt-by-association charge, defending the man and disavowing the publication. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: The Washington Post described Quinn as the "longtime adviser [who] directed the senator to a crucial victory in the Palmetto State." Politico reported that McCain paid Quinn's firms $184,000. An article that was posted on McCain's website in 2008 — that is no longer available — described Quinn as "a senior political consultant to the McCain campaign." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...v=rss_politics http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7604.html Pastor John Hagee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee In a 2006 address, Hagee stated, "The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West... a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ." Over the years, Hagee the right-wing pastor has waged "an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church" by "calling it 'The Great Whore,' an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' and a 'false cult system.'" During an interview with National Public Radio, Hagee also blamed Hurricane Katrina on gays, saying the devastating storm "was, in fact, the judgment of God against ... New Orleans." The city, he continued, "had a level of sin that was offensive to God" because "there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came." HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Despite McCain's statement in 2000 that "Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right," McCain spent more than a year actively seeking Hagee's endorsement. In February 2008, McCain stated, "I'm very honored by Pastor John Hagee's endorsement today." Only after public outcry did McCain repudiate Hagee. Pastor Rod Parsley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Parsley Parsley has stated that "Islam is an anti-Christ religion that intends through violence to conquer the world." Parsley has further stated that "The fact is that America was founded — I'm gonna stagger you right now — America was founded in part with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed." He also said that Mohammed received revelations from demon spirits. HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: McCain actively sought Parsley's support to get evangelical votes. In February 2008, McCain stated, "I'm truly honored today to have one of one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide — Pastor Rod Parsley." Again, after public outrage over Parsley, McCain was forced to repudiate him. Todd Palin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Palin Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's husband, Todd, twice registered as a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a fierce states' rights group whose primary goal is for the state of Alaska to secede from the United States. Sarah Palin herself was never a member of the party, according to state officials. Founded in 1973 by Joe Vogler, Vogler stated, "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions." "Keep up the good work," Sarah Palin told members of the Alaskan Independence Party in a videotaped speech to their 2008 convention six months ago in Fairbanks. She wished the party luck on what she called its "inspiring convention." HOW CLOSELY IS McCAIN TIED TO HIM: Todd Palin is the husband of McCain's vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin, Sarah Palin has attended their conventions and Sarah Palin herself sent them a videotaped address for their 2008 convention, telling them to "keep up the good work." Wow, what a list. Some more Sources for your book burning festival: http://www.houstonpress.com/2000-03-...for-john/print http://www.publicintegrity.org/blog/entry/364/ http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2000-...ed-by-spirits/ http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/84094.php http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=93708729 http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_219.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/23/us...l?pagewanted=2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Hensley http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...itico/thecrypt... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331872,00.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_Gordon_Liddy http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/10/...-gordon-liddy/ http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080929/berman_ames http://www.newsweek.com/id/161218 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/us.../w24davis.html http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/...e_black_j.html http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...n-adviser.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2008/02/21/... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,0,92000.story http://www.liberaloasis.com/2008/04/...iation_for.php http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26524024/ http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,6399468.story http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/28/...n-endorsement/ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4422652.shtml http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,1083099.story http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us...yers.html?_r=2... *waits* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 First you're digging up stuff from people that was from a long time ago, second McCain has a record of going after people that are corrupt Obama did not and still doesn't. Third, did you know that John McCain testified against Keating in the civil trial to try to help people get their money back. Then the Scooter Libby connection doesn't go anywhere at all because McCain would have had to meet the guy due to the nature of their jobs, that's a difference between McCain and Obama. Obama chose Wright as his pastor, Libby just worked for the executive branch. As for your sources, I see at least one that off the top of my head used fraudulent documents in 2004 to try to smear President Bush. And several others including: Newsweek, New York Times, LA Times, etc. (and that's just off the top of my head) that have been caught at dishonest journalism in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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