I apologize for my stupid predictions in the Unknown Regions Forum

[Emperor Devon]

Hey, least at the end of K1 you could decide to be evil.

 

Which was something I didn't like. Basing the ending off a single choice made everything your PC did prior to said choice totally irrelevant. You could "fall" to the dark side before then, sure, but as even PCs that were 100% good-aligned could choose to side with Bastila it didn't make a bit of difference.

 

I preferred TSL's method of having the outcome of certain plot-critical points be determined by your alignment (which ensured that even giving 5 credits to that beggar on Nar Shaddaa would have some significance), and having certain others be determined by player choice. And then having the ending of the game determined by how most of those previous choices averaged out.

 

TSL made any decision you made in K1 "good" for the Universe as a whole. Even if your goal was destruction or to save all the little orphans, in the end Revan was always the hero.

 

No, that was just what Avellone turned pre-windwiped Revan into (although "hero" isn't the most fitting word). Decisions made by the PC in K1 were more irrelevant than anything else, as the plot demanded Revan leave for the Unknown Regions whether he blew up the Star Forge or not (but then again there's next to no sequels where what the player did in the previous game has any significant impact on the story. You'd have to essentially write two plots that way).

 

Added ontop of that bizarre characters like Exile and Sion.

 

Bizarre for Star Wars, sure (or actually not depending how much of the EU you count as canon). Personally I didn't care how well TSL fit into Star Wars' continuity, as the plot wouldn't have been the same without them.

[adamqd]

Not to the degree that they were in K1.

 

granted K1 had Revan, but TSL had everyone as some kind of Vergence in the force with a unique non SW super power running in non canonical circles with a terrible ending, plus you could train a crew member to be knight level Jedi in 20 minutes.

 

With regards to time frame vs good ending, did Obsidian have to start from scratch with TSL? I mean apart from a few extra's and a different color scheme, is it not the same game (question not statement I honestly dont know )

[Ctrl Alt Del]

I'm not. He was already established as a military genius and powerful Force-user in the first game, if that's the point you were making.

 

Surely, and while K2 had the chance to mitigate it they've chosen to augment his reputation even more. Out of ten words said by Kreia, nine spoke well of Revan.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

granted K1 had Revan, but TSL had everyone as some kind of Vergence in the force with a unique non SW super power running in non canonical circles with a terrible ending, plus you could train a crew member to be knight level Jedi in 20 minutes.

 

With regards to time frame vs good ending, did Obsidian have to start from scratch with TSL? I mean apart from a few extra's and a different color scheme, is it not the same game (question not statement I honestly dont know )

technically, tsl was almost exactly the same as kotor, yes. on the other hand, kotor was a (somewhat heavily) modified version of nwn.

[adamqd]

thanks for info

[Lord Foley]

Which was something I didn't like. Basing the ending off a single choice made everything your PC did prior to said choice totally irrelevant. You could "fall" to the dark side before then, sure, but as even PCs that were 100% good-aligned could choose to side with Bastila it didn't make a bit of difference.

 

True, it did make everything else you did somewhat irrelevant, but it was also good in that it offered a chance at redemption. Sometimes in real life you're faced with a big decision, and you may change your mind about everything when faced with a flat out choice selfishness or selflessness.

[GarfieldJL]

granted K1 had Revan, but TSL had everyone as some kind of Vergence in the force with a unique non SW super power running in non canonical circles with a terrible ending, plus you could train a crew member to be knight level Jedi in 20 minutes.

 

With regards to time frame vs good ending, did Obsidian have to start from scratch with TSL? I mean apart from a few extra's and a different color scheme, is it not the same game (question not statement I honestly dont know )

 

It would have been very cliche if they had Revan be the main charecter again, I actually think the KotOR II chars were better developed and more interesting that the KotOR I chars.

 

TSL wasn't just a sequel it introduced a new dynamic to the storyline that showed the fallout of the Jedi Civil War.

[adamqd]

I didn't say anything about Returning characters, I was responding to a post regarding K1 having more mary sue's than TSL, and the game similarities comment was regarding the game engine, and the quality of game Bioware would of produced if they had the same time frame as obsidian.

[GarfieldJL]

I didn't say anything about Returning characters, I was responding to a post regarding K1 having more mary sue's than TSL, and the game similarities comment was regarding game engine, and the quality of game Bioware would of produced if they had the same time frame as obsidian

 

 

Yeah, I'm not sure Bioware's game would have worked at all.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Yeah, I'm not sure Bioware's game would have worked at all.

having played a lot of Bioware games and only a handful of Obsidian titles, I believe the result of Bioware's work couldn't be worse than Kotor 2 was.

[GarfieldJL]

having played a lot of Bioware games and only a handful of Obsidian titles, I believe the result of Bioware's work couldn't be worse than Kotor 2 was.

 

Well based on the fact they had more time than Obsidian did and still had to write out a planet, I'm not too sure they would have had a better game.

 

Furthermore, Obsidian was contending with multiple possible endings for KotOR I that they had to take into account.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Yeah that really applies to video games.

 

And what's the matter when that happens?

[adamqd]

For the record KotOR= teh pwnzer!!!1111

 

TSL= sucky

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Well based on the fact they had more time than Obsidian did and still had to write out a planet, I'm not too sure they would have had a better game.

 

Furthermore, Obsidian was contending with multiple possible endings for KotOR I that they had to take into account.

On the other hand, BioWare had to develop the engine, write the scripts, create items, etc, etc. Obsidian may have added some, but much of the items in TSL were holdovers from KotOR.

[Yar-El]

I've only played The Sith Lords roughly five full times. Graphics wise the game takes the win. Story wise I'm left feeling uncertain. I don't get filled from playing act two. I didn't notice many plot holes; however, I wasn't paying attention to the deeper details. I only noticed them after someone here pointed them out. My initial reaction to the game was its an oky story. Would I buy it again? Most likely not. I don't think the story was captivating enough. I'm also not into heavy game playing; thus, I'm in no way an expert on what makes a good roleplaying game.

 

The original game wins for a few reasons - (1) I get this Star Warish feeling all over when I play it. (2) Its the first time I stepped into a Star Wars rpg. (3) I felt successful after playing the game.

[GarfieldJL]

I found TSL to have the more intriguing story though, I played KotOR I after I played TSL, in fact TSL was the reason why I got KotOR I.

 

The charecters of TSL seemed for the most part to be more dynamic and interesting, Atton Rand was way better than Carth Onasi for instance. T3-M4 actually had a personality, HK-47's commentary on the party members from KotOR I was a riot.

 

You could tell there was a lot of stuff missing though, unlike KotOR I where it seemed a bit cliche at times but you couldn't tell anything was missing. In TSL you could see the signs that the game had been wounded badly, but it still having had not played KotOR I until afterward, I actually liked TSL better than KotOR I.

[Yar-El]

You present some good points. Obsidian gets credit for trying to inject fresh ideas; nevertheless, were people ready for a major change in storytelling? Star Wars movies have a focal tone to them; thus, the first Knights game was successful in emulating Lucas's style. Gamers saw Star Wars in the first game. Obsidian tried to emulate Empire Strikes Back; however, the current version of The Sith Lords fell short. How can anyone give the game a proper review while it being damaged? How did a game become Game of the Year when it was incomplete? My brain hurts.

[Xaris Vynn]

I actually Played TSL before I played K1 don't remember how or why but I actually liked them both equally.They could have ended the whole thing with K1 and been done with it! Revan was a hero and sailed off into the sunset, The End, story over.

But then everyone wanted to know, What happened to Revan? Where did he go? Does Bastilla Shan follow him or not, and if not, Why? Is it because she was pregnant with his baby? etc,etc,etc...

 

So LA decided to make a second installment, with an exile that for some reason did not know who, what, when, where, why or how he/she was. Then this exile finds out he/she is a hole or a tear in the fabric that is the force but since "The Force makes up all things great and small and binds the galaxy together" (I guess this part of the story is not possible) etc,etc,etc... I personally feel that even though there was a lot of missing content they did a Damn good job of telling the Story, and before everyone that did not think so, starts Screaming that I am an idiot, or have no clue

Answer this question first;

When you were done Playing TSL, Did you or did you not want to see when they were going to come out with KOTOR3?

 

Well since everyone on this site wants to see KOTOR3 in some form or another that completes the trilogy, Not the MMO version, IMO. I guess the story did what is was supposed to do, leave you on the edge or your seat wanting more, to see what finally happens to Revan and/or the Exile. They did so much building of the legend of Revan in the second game they left you craving more, hence the term "Revan Fan-boys" (which I am not one of, btw). I am not going to argue about how they told the story or what game it looked like, the bottom line is they told the story that left you wanting more which is what is was supposed to do, it was never meant to be the end of the Revan Story. I won't even mention the facts that the game from soups to nuts had to be approved by LA so if you don't like the story or how it was told then the issue lies with LA not the 3rd party developer that did what LA told them to do!

 

Oh and SilentScope001 there is no need for you to apologize for anything, your prediction, this thread or any other Post you have made. To all the people that are giving you a hard time they should just step back and take a moment to realize this is a forum about a Video Game! A video game based on a story created by a crazy idea of some 1970's college student! So relax Star Wars and everything in its universe is make believe! and BTW your prediction was not wrong We all know the "True Sith" get defeated in the end and Anakin Skywalker restores balance to the force by chucking Poppa Palpatine into the reactor core.

[adamqd]

Answer this question first;

When you were done Playing TSL, Did you or did you not want to see when they were going to come out with KOTOR3?

 

I remember being bored for a majority of the game, wondering where this out of place convoluted story was going... then realized I was watching the credit's, the last thing on my mind was KotOR 3, because i was opening the box to KotOR 1 again while simultaneously throwing the disk to TSL over my shoulder.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Then this exile finds out he/she is a hole or a tear in the fabric that is the force but since "The Force makes up all things great and small and binds the galaxy together" (I guess this part of the story is not possible) etc,etc,etc... I personally feel that even though there was a lot of missing content they did a Damn good job of telling the Story

God no, I thought exactly the contrary. I call putting all the "blame" on the Force for pretty much everything left out of explanation on K2, bad storytelling.

 

When you were done Playing TSL, Did you or did you not want to see when they were going to come out with KOTOR3?

Similar to the first part of Adamqd sentence. But, yeah, it left me wondering when - not if - K3 was coming out. After all, with that ending, it tricked us all, even SS (don't get cocky ).

[Blix]

You shouldn't have to feel obligated to apologize for making a prediction that yourself or others may view as inaccurate or "stupid". Unless you offended certain people during your thesis/prediction, then I don't see any need to apologize since speculation and predicting the outcomes of things are all apart of forums everwhere be it for Star Wars or Anime. Besides, since EA assimilated Bioware and has essentially warped KOTOR into this amalgamation of a continuity, it's difficult to tell what they really have in mind with the "Sith (belief)/True Sith (species, etc.)" anyway. For all we know, they could make a pre-death star and LF would retcon it as the proto-prototype or whatever.

[Xaris Vynn]

I remember being bored for a majority of the game, wondering where this out of place convoluted story was going... then realized I was watching the credit's, the last thing on my mind was KotOR 3, because i was opening the box to KotOR 1 again while simultaneously throwing the disk to TSL over my shoulder.

 

As far as the Hole in the force part of the story and the way they used Kreia yes that was convoluted, I could have done with out the story going in that direction, but the rest was about a the exile looking for Revan.

How they would incorporate the exile getting new force powers, and the regaining his use of the force I don't know. But they used what was given to them and did what they could.

 

God no, I thought exactly the contrary. I call putting all the "blame" on the Force for pretty much everything left out of explanation on K2, bad storytelling.

 

As I said previously in this post I agree, but the consept of the game and the was thought up by LA. The finished product went thru LA, if they approved it then the Blame is on them, it is not entirely the developers fault. If LA didn't like the idea I am sure they could have change it sometime during the devlopment of the game.

 

 

Similar to the first part of Adamqd sentence. But, yeah, it left me wondering when - not if - K3 was coming out. After all, with that ending, it tricked us all, even SS (don't get cocky ).

 

I wasn't being cocky, not in the least. I was just stating how I feel on the subject.