[wip] [K1] The KOTOR Weaponry Improvement Project

[Canderis]

Nice model DP!

[Lord of Hunger]

@ memarik: Both. It's going to convert the models, skins, and icons of the original weapons, but in a certain sense it is an expansion to WOTOR because it creates more unique appearances for the ingame weapons.

 

@ DarthParametric: Since you decided to do some work on that blaster instead of the other one, that blaster once a skin is provided will become the new generic blaster for K1.

 

@ Pikmin: Hello. Yeah, I was hoping someone would initiate a project like this for awhile, but since nobody stepped up I decided I'd just get it done.

 

@ Christos K: If you are interested, I'd be happy to take that ALIEN weapon and have it be the new generic blaster rifle if someone can model and skin it.

 

@ Darth Jacen: I am actually taking swords and such too, just no lightsabers. There are other mods for that already. Also, I appreciate the suggestion but since I can't model and skin I'm hoping other modders will take that suggestion should they decide to contribute.

[DarthParametric]

Model and texture done.

 

 

I've never made a blaster game mesh, so I'll have to play around with that.

 

EDIT: Whoops, forgot some knurling. Added that in.

 

[Lord of Hunger]

Model and texture done.

 

 

I've never made a blaster game mesh, so I'll have to play around with that.

 

EDIT: Whoops, forgot some knurling. Added that in.

 

That is amazing...if we could make a new icon that'd be awesome.

 

Thank you, Darth Parametric! When you are finished with the mesh, please put the files in a zip folder on filefront (not KOTORFiles, just filefront) and PM the link so I can start putting this mod together! :D :D

[DarthParametric]

Yeah an icon isn't a problem. Do you want me to provide a ready to go game model (i.e. a binary mdl/mdx), or are you going to do that?

[Lord of Hunger]

Please provide the ready-to-go game model, and also the icon if you're making one. Hopefully I'll be able to handle the rest from then on.

 

Again, thank you!

[DarthParametric]

You want it as a replacement for w_blstrpstl_001 in K1?

[Darth InSidious]

Smoothing. groups.

[Quanon]

1500 is still ridiculous.

 

No its not

 

Some of my weapons go to 2000 or more like my recently released Soul Caliber sword and the Star Gate masks.

 

Ofcourse you can cut down on polys in the straight cylinder shapes.

Using 8 sides instead of 12 or 24.

 

Infact, I've read on another forum, Polycount, all about 3D modelling, this is a classic discussion: cutting down on the poly count.

 

With recent hardware it doesn't matter that much anymore, certainly on PC.

And yes, Kotor era hardware is still amongst this "recent".

 

Textures and their sorts (maps) are actually the real killers that kill frame rate.

 

Ofcourse, its good to try not to model messy and use the polys on the right spots.

Which isn't so easy. Guess that seperates the pro from amateurs like us.

 

Smoothing. groups.

 

IIRC DP models in Cinema 4D and I think he mentioned somewhere this program doesn't have such a thing... perhaps its named differantly ?

 

OR C 4D was made for other purposes then modelling ?

[DarthParametric]

A quick play in GMax would suggest that smoothing groups do the same thing as phong angles and edge breaks in C4D. I'm not seeing how it is going to wildly improve it. Besides, the only thing really suffering from the low poly count is the butt of the stock, and that's going to be obscured by the hand and the low res nature of KOTOR.

[Darth InSidious]

No its not

 

Some of my weapons go to 2000 or more like my recently released Soul Caliber sword and the Star Gate masks.

 

Ofcourse you can cut down on polys in the straight cylinder shapes.

Using 8 sides instead of 12 or 24.

 

Infact, I've read on another forum, Polycoun, all about 3D modelling, this is a classic discussion: cutting down on the poly count.

 

With recent hardware it doesn't matter that much anymore, certainly on PC.

And yes, Kotor era hardware is still amongst this "recent".

Yes, KotOR will handle it, but best practice, optimisation etc... ? Besides, if you start modelling for older engines, you will run into issues.

 

Honestly, in KotOR you aren't going to notice the difference if you use 24 sides or 8 with smoothing.

 

You cite your Soul Caliber sword at ~2000 polies. My khopesh has ~350. Honestly, I don't think it looks any worse on that; when it's textured, I doubt you'll see a difference in quality - except in the quality of the texture, of course.

 

Granted, your model is more complex, but still, that's a very high poly count for a sword model. Especially if you consider it in comparison, say, with the KotOR models. Granted, we can afford a few more polies than those, but still. Generally I try for less than 1000 in most cases. That said, I also tend to do simpler models.

 

Ofcourse, its good to try not to model messy.

Which isn't so easy. Guess that seperates the pro from amateurs like us.

 

 

IIRC DP models in Cinema 4D and I think he mentioned somewhere this program doesn't have such a thing... perhaps its named differantly ?

 

OR C 4D was made for other purposes then modelling ?

Didn't know this.

 

A quick play in GMax would suggest that smoothing groups do the same thing as phong angles and edge breaks in C4D. I'm not seeing how it is going to wildly improve it. Besides, the only thing really suffering from the low poly count is the butt of the stock, and that's going to be obscured by the hand and the low res nature of KOTOR.

I'm talking about decreasing your poly count, not increasing it.

[DarthParametric]

The triangulated mesh is around 1180 polys. That's fine as far as I'm concerned. Keeping the poly count as low as possible is an admirable goal, but the whole point of projects like this is to improve the models from the super-low poly Xbox-friendly models KOTOR has, not make more of the same. Granted in most cases you can't fully appreciate the models and textures in-game, but people still want it nonetheless.

[Darth InSidious]

The triangulated mesh is around 1180 polys. That's fine as far as I'm concerned. Keeping the poly count as low as possible is an admirable goal, but the whole point of projects like this is to improve the models from the super-low poly Xbox-friendly models KOTOR has, not make more of the same. Granted in most cases you can't fully appreciate the models and textures in-game, but people still want it nonetheless.

 

I'm not talking about doing things as ultra-low poly as the default in-game models, but its still possible to create something with a lot greater detail while still using a fairly low poly-count.

[Lord of Hunger]

@ DarthParametric: Yes, please do so.

 

@ DarthInsidious, TriggerGod, and Quanon: I realize that there may be issues with high-poly models may cause frame rate problems, so I'll add a disclaimer. However, I personally prefer to have high-poly, detailed weapons than the irritating ones that come with K1.

[Christos K]

Nice work with the pistol. I will certainly look forward to this mod along with others

[Quanon]

Yes, KotOR will handle it, but best practice, optimisation etc... ? Besides, if you start modelling for older engines, you will run into issues.

 

You''ll have to make a serious heavy polycount to make the engine stutter on that alone.

 

Really, modern graphic cards and the other hardware on your PC can crunch an insane amount of polys in less then seconds.

 

It is ifcourse true to spend the polys wise. And thats why Smoothing groups are for.

 

Still if you model decently with quads the overal rendering and shadow applying will much nicer. This is ofcourse more important on player and NPC model then the small weapons.

 

So you yes its wice to clean your model as much as possible.

 

You cite your Soul Caliber sword at ~2000 polies. My khopesh has ~350. Honestly, I don't think it looks any worse on that; when it's textured, I doubt you'll see a difference in quality - except in the quality of the texture, of course.

Granted, your model is more complex, but still, that's a very high poly count for a sword model. Especially if you consider it in comparison, say, with the KotOR models. Granted, we can afford a few more polies than those, but still. Generally I try for less than 1000 in most cases. That said, I also tend to do simpler models.

 

Well my Soul Caliber has these small twisting wings around a sphere, its this twist, even though it just has 4 sides, that suck up polys.

 

I think there are more then 20 steps needed to go up and after the sphere.

Its damn small in the game, but hey... I consider that to be my fun in modelling.

 

And textures can't always hide the straight and hard edges.

 

Didn't know this.

I'm talking about decreasing your poly count, not increasing it.

 

Well infact smoothing groups affect the rendering engine (thus the game engine aswell ofcourse) most, as it tells to create extra edges inbetween others... so in the end you get the same like you would have modelled those edges for real, well semi.

 

As in fact you need to count each vert twice, 3ds Max hides this, but thats all tech talk and I'm not a genious in that

 

I just know some facts from reading stuff here and there.

 

The triangulated mesh is around 1180 polys. That's fine as far as I'm concerned. Keeping the poly count as low as possible is an admirable goal, but the whole point of projects like this is to improve the models from the super-low poly Xbox-friendly models KOTOR has, not make more of the same. Granted in most cases you can't fully appreciate the models and textures in-game, but people still want it nonetheless.

 

Kotor uses pretty low textures; but this a more dangerious playground.

As textures need to be loaded in the memory.

An increase from the low 64x64 and 128x128 to 256x256 will improve the quality, but I wouldn't start giving each weapon a 512x512 texture.

 

I can see DI concerns, if you replace each weapon model with a high poly one, remember that the NPCs and enemys use those aswell.

 

So think of it: your party fully armed and a squad of Sith troopers in the Star Forge each totting an extra amount of 1500+ polys. And effects for their grenades and stuff...

 

Anyway, the models aren't bad, just keep it in mind

 

 

I'm not talking about doing things as ultra-low poly as the default in-game models, but its still possible to create something with a lot greater detail while still using a fairly low poly-count.

 

True, its a balancing act, but still, its a difficult one.

So don't get to hard down on somebody with Hobby 3D skills.

 

 

Its ofcourse admirable to improve yourself, but its just not that easy.

[DarthParametric]

Doing some in-game testing. The hand position probably needs some adjustment.

 

 

I'm thinking that the DL-44 should be a replacement for the default heavy blaster pistol (w_hvyblstr_001). Maybe have something like the DDC Defender (Leia's blaster on the Tantive IV in ANH) as the replacement for w_blstrpstl_001. Then have the DH-17 as a replacement for the default blaster carbine (w_blstrcrbn_001) and the E-11 as a replacement for the default blaster rifle (w_blstrrfl_001). The DLT-19 and T-21 could be used for heavy repeating blasters (w_hvrptbltr_00x).

 

 

I wouldn't start giving each weapon a 512x512 texture.

Heh. All my KOTOR models use 1024x1024 textures.

[Lord of Hunger]

Doing some in-game testing. The hand position probably needs some adjustment.

 

 

I'm thinking that the DL-44 should be a replacement for the default heavy blaster pistol (w_hvyblstr_001). Maybe have something like the DDC Defender (Leia's blaster on the Tantive IV in ANH) as the replacement for w_blstrpstl_001. Then have the DH-17 as a replacement for the default blaster carbine (w_blstrcrbn_001) and the E-11 as a replacement for the default blaster rifle (w_blstrrfl_001). The DLT-19 and T-21 could be used for heavy repeating blasters (w_hvrptbltr_00x).

 

 

Heh. All my KOTOR models use 1024x1024 textures.

1) Irregardless of the hand position, those blasters look AWESOME!

 

2) I actually liked the heavy blaster pistol that came with the game surprisingly, and Leia's DDC Defender definitely seems like a much more elite weapon, a bit too much to be commonly sold on the market. Also, as Quanon and Darth Insidious are debating, there may be issues with too many high poly models.

 

So here is my suggestions: Take the model, skin, and icon of the heavy blaster and rename it so it can be used as the w_blstrpstl_001. Then take your DL-44 and go ahead and make it the w_hvyblstr_001. Leia's DDC Defender should still be used, but perhaps as a replacement for the Arkanian Heavy Blaster or such (not the Mandalorian one, though, that needs to be very different). The DH-17 works as the default blaster carbine. The E-11 would be perfect as the new (w_blstrrfl_001), by all means! I'm also thinking that the T-21 would be great as the Mandalorian Assault Rifle, something I feel definitely needs a good replacement. Let me know what you think about this.

 

And again, thank you for all these suggestions and submissions. This is going to be one great mod! :):):):):)

 

@ Darth Betrayal: That, I think, might slow down progress on this mod if we had to come up with entirely new models all together. And not to worry, I'm not replacing all ingame weapons, just the ones that are either irritatingly wretched looking or are reskinned clones of the others. Not to mention, I like the weapons DarthParametric is submitting, and LordRevan999 is submitting a couple of custom swords as well.

 

@ EnderWiggin: True, though that's the case with all mods. Even before Shem declared that Pikmin was actually Darth Balor, I was honestly considering not downloading TSLCR due to the whole Atris=Darth Traya restoration. But that's the thing about mods: if you want to change your game that way, just install them. If not, don't. Also, from what I can tell it looks like there won't be any .2da editing necessary so people can decide which models they don't want installed.

 

One thing we do know about this mod: It'll be very, very, very big.

 

@ Christos K: This mod is built in the spirit of WOTOR, and while it's not a direct expansion to it KWIP will be a good supplement to the awesome idea of more weapon variety. Given that there is no other mod that touches these items, it'll be compatible with every other mod in K1. If this is successful, I'm hoping on making a TSL version (which I didn't think was necessary at first because TSL has way better skins in most areas despite being an incomplete game, but it seems that they simply reused all the same weapons from K1). However, if such is the case that they simply reused the weapons from K1 exactly in addition to their already existing ones, it may be possible to simply put the same files were adding to K1 in TSL without a second thought. I'll have to check it out, though.

[Canderis]

For replacing some of the rifles you could use these:

Show spoiler

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[Quanon]

Also, as Quanon and Darth Insidious are debating, there may be issues with too many high poly models.

 

Well, it wasn't my point to stop you guys from creating things; the models are good looking.

 

And far nicer looking then older ones, no doubt.

I'dd suggest once you get a nice amount replaced, you do some tests, run some battles in the game.

 

I just remember that the Star Forge was heavy, with all the dark jedi running about, shooting force powers, sith troopers firing, the whole thing sometimes gives hick-ups; frame drops.

 

Anyway, just do some tests and perhaps but a disclaimer/ warning with the mod that it might be heavy momma

 

I think it would be good to give an organized mod, each weapon in its own folder, so people can pick out their favorites.

 

it may be possible to simply put the same files were adding to K1 in TSL without a second thought. I'll have to check it out, though.

 

Well directly using the model files and UTIs won't work.

 

Models need be recompiled to the TSL code with MDLops.

And you'll need to create new UTIs or edit those that are in the game.

[DarthParametric]

My understanding is there is no UTI editing going on, just a model replacement. As you said, they would need to be recompiled for use in TSL.

[Will O' The Wisq]

Anyone thought about doing it for TSL?

[Canderis]

Anyone thought about doing it for TSL?

 

I might be doing this in my TSLECE mod If enough people don't like the current weapons in game.

[Lord of Hunger]

Um, if you guys read carefully, I believe that I stated that a TSL version will be made if the K1 version is successful.

[HK-42]

Um, if you guys read carefully, I believe that I stated that a TSL version will be made if the K1 version is successful.

 

Well as long as it is all custom, no already in game files used, then it wont be that hard to make a TSL copy using the same guns.