Is a MI2:SE possible at all?

[Guy.brush]

So now that we all established our animation kung-fu, I still stand by my initial statement.

The animation of a taller 1080p Guybrush leaves no room for imagination. You perceive everything as is. Whereas the pixelated version left room for imagination. Hell there were some frames in Monkey Island2 where I never could figure out if it was his coat moving or his arms or something else. You just filled in the missing stuff in your head.

The job of a remake team is not easy on this front. Even if they draw everything on the original keyposes it doesn't mean you get the same fluid feeling. I don't see a perfect solution for this, other than drawing completely new and/or more poses (more or less exaggerated and geared towards the new redesign)

 

As we probably all love the original animation, I think this is the best compromise.

[parabolee]

So now that we all established our animation kung-fu, I still stand by my initial statement.

The animation of a taller 1080p Guybrush leaves no room for imagination. You perceive everything as is. Whereas the pixelated version left room for imagination. Hell there were some frames in Monkey Island2 where I never could figure out if it was his coat moving or his arms or something else. You just filled in the missing stuff in your head.

The job of a remake team is not easy on this front. Even if they draw everything on the original keyposes it doesn't mean you get the same fluid feeling. I don't see a perfect solution for this, other than drawing completely new and/or more poses (more or less exaggerated and geared towards the new redesign)

 

As we probably all love the original animation, I think this is the best compromise.

 

Can't disagree with this, as I said higher resolution reveals more flaws. I mean take a look at that original frame 5, if that is correct and the ripper didn't mess it up, it's a terrible sprite! The front and back legs are all muddles together! But as I say I think there is a good chance he messed that up. But I'd have to get a good resolution video or boot the game in ScummVM to check for sure.

[Guy.brush]

Did they use their Singapore studio for it? Don't think so. Last I heard (and that was from a very high level Lucasfilm employee) was that the Singapore studio only did the Nintendo DS StarWars game. No other gaming related project yet. They are busy doing the CLONEWARS cartoons and I think some of the ILM shots get shipped over there.

[Nickelstein]

I still think that SOMI:SE animations are crap.

[Sven_Q45]

That´s if you make it outside your country.

 

No joke.

 

One contra must be. Even in Monkey Island.

 

 

And:

Technically MI 1 was not perfect, too. Open the door from the ScummBar. No hands. Uri Geller?

[Glokidd]

-super-snipped-

I also really hate Craig Derrick.

 

(I cut out the rest as i really dont have an informed opinion on the subject, it seems to be a valid discussion between two professionals who have far more insight to the going-on of animation than i do so ill pass there)

 

Im just curious as to why?

 

As far as i can see from the various interviews and Q&A with both him and the other members of the team is that it was his enthusiasm for the series that really brought about this whole revival. I for one can do nothing but applaud that. Admittedly im just as out of the loop as everyone else here as to the inner workings of how the decision was made but from the jesse harlan interview in particular it really seems that he was the one to take the initiative and make this happen.

[parabolee]

I still think that SOMI:SE animations are crap.

 

And I still think your wrong ;-D

 

Seriously though, look at those frames I posted. What's wrong with them? I'll make an animated GIF tomorrow so we can compare more closely. But for now I'm going to relax. Maybe play some Sam and Max Save the World.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Then they should do a better job to make it look right. The end. No excuses. Street Fighter is not my apex of quality.

 

This argument is getting boring to read. In the above statement you are dead wrong and you should go check out SF2HDRemix before deciding that Udon know less about animation than you. The higher res sprites highlighted the lack of animation frames. Period. Check out any review. It is PLAIN to see.

[parabolee]

I'm going to start a new topic tomorrow to examine the new sprites and animation (like I did above), not to argue about if they are good or not but just out of interest in studying what has been done on the special edition, because as a digital artist and an animator I am interested. And partly because I love the look of the SE.

 

But I think it needs to be moves to a nw thread because this one is SUPPOSED to be about the barriers to a Monkey 2 Special Edition. There is plenty of fodder for discussion on that and derailing this thread is a disservice to that topic.

 

In fact to bring this topic back to the thred, I think I will have a go at creating my own Guybrush SE sprite for the Monkey 2 SE. I'll try and do it tomorrow, :-D

[Monkey Mania]

I'm going to start a new topic tomorrow to examine the new sprites and animation (like I did above), not to argue about if they are good or not but just out of interest in studying what has been done on the special edition, because as a digital artist and an animator I am interested. And partly because I love the look of the SE.

 

Awesome!

[Guy.brush]

I still think that SOMI:SE animations are crap.

 

Compared to what??!

 

This is a typical juvenile (you were the 13old right? so you are excused) posting of an absolute statement you can only get away with in an internet discussion. You see, in the real world there are shades of grey and if you want to grow up a wise man, you need to differentiate and categorize a bit more than "crap".

 

Is it crap compared to the non-existent work of some holy, non existent team of ultimate-best-of animators injected with the combined Monkey Island love of thousands of fans with unlimited time and money on their hands? YES it is.

 

Is it crap when keeping in mind that in reality such a team has money, time, artistic and technical constraints (like trying to keep the same number of animation frames and poses like the original)?

NO definitely not.

 

It's best to develop opinions formed on all the available facts.

Of course if you just want to state "your gut feeling", than feel free.

[parabolee]

Awesome!

 

OMG LOL, love your avatar!

[Monkey Mania]

OMG LOL, love your avatar!

LOL, Thanks!

[Nickelstein]

Compared to what??!

 

This is a typical juvenile (you were the 13old right? so you are excused) posting of an absolute statement you can only get away with in an internet discussion. You see, in the real world there are shades of grey and if you want to grow up a wise man, you need to differentiate and categorize a bit more than "crap".

 

Is it crap compared to the non-existent work of some holy, non existent team of ultimate-best-of animators injected with the combined Monkey Island love of thousands of fans with unlimited time and money on their hands? YES it is.

 

Is it crap when keeping in mind that in reality such a team has money, time, artistic and technical constraints (like trying to keep the same number of animation frames and poses like the original)?

NO definitely not.

 

It's best to develop opinions formed on all the available facts.

Of course if you just want to state "your gut feeling", than feel free.

 

I just think their crap thats all and you don't have to get my age involved in this. I don't have to tell you why I think their crap, thats my business and mine alone.

[Guy.brush]

Sorry not true. If you are participating in a discussion (which posting on a message board kind of is) than it's just rude to state something without backing it up, explaining it or trying to get the other person invested in your point of view.

Your are just venting or verbally throwing **** against the wall otherwise.

I know the internet was basically born out of a discussion culture like this, but that doesn't mean you should embrace it and dumb yourself down to that level.

[Nickelstein]

Ok. The reason I think the animations are bad is because they (to me at least) seem too stiff. In a word the animations just don't seem alive or lifelike. For me animations can bring the world to life. If you have stiff animations you destroy the believability of your world and I just won't seem interested. Example: MI2 had a load of new animations that brought the character of Guybrush to life and made more lovable. There were times when these animations would make me love Guybrush even more. For instance when Guybrush eyes pop out of his head when he sees a LeChuck costume. It just makes me want to love the character more and more. That is the only thing I dislike about SOMI:SE. The animations just don't seem right for the character of Guyrbush. When I see Guybrush walk in SOMI:SE I just think to myself thats not how Guybrush should walk or turn or anything for that matter. Basically I just don't feel right with the animations. Do you get were I'm coming from Guy.brush?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Sorry not true. If you are participating in a discussion (which posting on a message board kind of is) than it's just rude to state something without backing it up, explaining it or trying to get the other person invested in your point of view.

Your are just venting or verbally throwing **** against the wall otherwise.

I know the internet was basically born out of a discussion culture like this, but that doesn't mean you should embrace it and dumb yourself down to that level.

 

Well, I'm 31 and I agree with him: The animation in the SE doesn't look great.

[parabolee]

Well, I'm 31 and I agree with him: The animation in the SE doesn't look great.

 

I think this thread should be closed now, it's getting ridiculous. Nobody (other my attempt to get back on topic) has mentioned a possible MI2:SE for pages!

[Nickelstein]

I agree with parabolee, things are starting to get out of hand with these agruments and debates. Maybe we should just move this topic to a new thread?

[Nickelstein]

Besides SOMI:SE isn't even out yet. They haven't given us a release date or anything so why are we all of a sudden assuming that there will be a MI2:SE? I'm just saying and thats all.

[parabolee]

Because it's fun to speculate.

 

And I am going to create a new thread to study the upgraded animations and artwork of the Special Editions. But I DO NOT want it to turn into a debate or argument.

 

IMO this thread should be locked and another started for MI2:SE speculation, and if people really want to debate if the SE animation/art is good/bad it can be a different thread with an appropriate title.

[Nickelstein]

I said I was done with this agrument parabolee and thats it. I also don't want to turn this into another agrument. Start up your new thread my friend.

[Nickelstein]

See, you really don't need to act like that. You don't come into a forum and start disrespecting everyone, especially regulars. I don't understand how I was so uncivil. I am not making digs at you in other threads purposefully, not am I mockingly typing internet speak like, "LOL!!!!!1111" or "WTH!!??!?!111" when I speak to you. If you loved these games so much, where have you been since 2001 when all of this stuff opened?

 

I don't understand how much argument is pointless. People have a problem with animation and stiffness, not just me. I'm suggesting they could draw stronger poses. You look or read any animation book and you will find something along the line that, "strong poses lead to strong animation." The MI:Remake appears to have manequin like frames somethimes, so I'm addressing that. You're leading to me believe you have never picked up an animation book in your life because you keep arguing against a basic principle I'm trying to apply here. If you asked Richard Williams, John Kricfalusi, Preston Blair (RIP), Jerry Beck, John Canemaker, or even repugnant Michael Barrier if simply doubling or tripling the frames fixes an animation they would all tell you no.

 

Dude just let it go the agrument or debate (whatever the hell you want to call it) is over. That said I'm done arguing over this. I'm going to go to parabolee's new topic, play so more MI2 and BiA Hells Highway. You reply all you want mister but I aint gonna start arguing (AGAIN).

[ThunderPeel2001]

Jeez. Where's a mod when you need one?

 

You know it's odd. I actually agree with that you're saying, Synth: Getting the fluidity, arcs, etc. correct is VERY VERY important. You can probably get away with a lot more, using fewer frames, by being good at this. I don't see how you can do that with a 1080p version of MI, but if you can produce the evidence, I'd love to see it!

 

Bottom line, though, you're both arguing a very tiny point: Can you create a 6 frame walk cycle and make it look smooth and fluid?

 

There's really no need to take it beyond that: One says yes, the other says no. It's ok to disagree.

 

Also, guys: I doubt anybody here has bothered to read through all of your posts. I certainly haven't. Why not continue your discussion over PMs?

[elTee]

Don't worry, we're here, and we're prepared to try and let things get resolved on their own without any interference. Rest assured, we won't let things get nasty. But from now on, please only reply to this thread if you want to talk about the original topic.