Ultimate Vader Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I don't accept what-ifs. Well, it's not in my knowledge of vs threads. Perhaps you should go to KMC, Comic Vine, Marvel Boards, and other sites. You will see that they deal with what's given by the TS. And they always backup their statement with proof. I don't accept a baseless assumption. Sorry man, I just don't accept that kind of debating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2-X2 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 In this vid you see how long it takes to aim, load all systems, fire the laser and blow up a whole planet: 17 seconds. Can the SF produce and man a whole fleet in this duration? CAN IT? NO, sure it can't! (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.) Why don't you admit it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trench Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I don't accept what-ifs. Well, it's not in my knowledge of vs threads. Perhaps you should go to KMC, Comic Vine, Marvel Boards, and other sites. You will see that they deal with what's given by the TS. And they always backup their statement with proof. I don't accept a baseless assumption. Sorry man, I just don't accept that kind of debating. Okay smart guy. What do you think about this: There isn't enough information to compile a good argument for the Star Forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 For R2-X2: Thanks for the video, ex two. I'm just a bit lazy to find a good quality video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2-X2 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Mir'sheb. There isn't enough information to compile a good argument for the Star Forge. And that's one of the reasons why all your arguments for the SF are just crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 And that's one of the reasons why all your arguments for the SF are just crap. It's quite true, and very bold if I may add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Well I can't agree with that scenario, because there won't be enough ships to destroy DS. And there's not enough time to steal DS's blueprint, devise a plan, and send ships to destroy DS. DS wins in a space battle against SF. I'm still waiting for a good and rational argument from SF's side about how will SF prevent its destruction because DS fire the superlaser. Any other takers? What about how long would it take before the Star Forge's location was discovered? If you didn't know where it was, that would give the SF a significant advantage in any battle. If the DS didn't have a target upon which to fire upon, then its superlaser is worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trench Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 What about how long would it take before the Star Forge's location was discovered. If you didn't know where it was, that would give the SF a significant advantage. If the DS didn't have a target upon which to fire upon, then its superlaser is worthless. Darth_Yuthura makes a good point. Yet another variable to add to the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthJacen Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 That's true, but there are sith on both sides. Sidious and Vader could arange a meeting with the Revan and Malak on nuetral terms, and then learn the location. They would part ways giving Revan the impression that they would be allies move the Deathstar into orbit around Lehon, and suprise attack the Star Forge. Ah, isn't the way of the sith so great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trench Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Revan could probably pull the deception from Sidious' mind and prepare a fleet large enough to sack Coruscant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 This is getting pointless. When you start using 'what if,' you dilute the argument. 'Sidious and Vader could arange a meeting with the Revan and Malak on nuetral terms, and then learn the location. They would part ways giving Revan the impression that they would be allies move the Deathstar into orbit around Lehon, and suprise attack the Star Forge.' That isn't likely to happen, so it shouldn't be used as proof or have a part in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthriddick Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Truth is neither Reven nor malak used the star forge to its full potential, Reven cus he/she was smart and malak because he was dumb. The SF was an instrument of the darkside and as such most likely had abilities far surpassing the mere building of ships. the DS was constructed to blow up planets as an instrument of fear. Also the first deathstar was useless against fleets of ships due to it's inaccurate targeting laser. (planets are easy to hit.) Now if it was DS2 against starforge I might be tempted to go the way of the DS2 as it could fire pretty fast and was very accurate. Honestly though I prefer BOTH of them joining up into a super capital ship spawning super laser firing ultra weapon!!!!!! MWHAHAHAHAHAHH! Yup. This is my first post in freaking ages. Please make a real kotor 3 instead of this stupid mockery that is the Knights MMO. Woot. Yay!. Hoo rah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demongo Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 This is getting pointless. When you start using 'what if,' you dilute the argument. Indeed, the "ifs" are just causing trouble,trouble and more trouble. We know very little about the Star Forge, and also a lot more info is missing. Why don't you accept my version of the battle? BOTH IS DESTROYED!!!!!BWAHHAAHAHAHA!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trench Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I like DarthDac's scenario:D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demongo Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 See? That's what all of you guys should do: I like DarthDac's scenario:D. Agree with me, and finally there will be peace! There is nothing we haven't mentioned about the SF or DS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 But I don't agree with that scenario. I see different outcomes under different conditions, but those haven't been specified beyond 'SF vs. DS' I will admit the SF likely will be destroyed by the DS superlaser, but that's only if the DS is in range of the SF. If the conditions were more clearly defined and the situation was not open to 'what ifs,' then I would fairly judge one way or another that the DS has the tactical edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demongo Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 But I don't agree with that scenario. I see different outcomes under different conditions, but those haven't been specified beyond 'SF vs. DS' I will admit the SF likely will be destroyed by the DS superlaser, but that's only if the DS is in range of the SF. If the conditions were more clearly defined and the situation was not open to 'what ifs,' then I would fairly judge one way or another that the DS has the tactical edge. GreyJediMaster hasn't posted in this thread since he started it, so I don't think we will get any conditions. And I think there is one more thing we haven't mentioned. The DS is VERY SLOW, just remember the countdown from ANH. It was 30 mins I guess? I don't remember exactly. If the SF was right behind the DS, the SF would have a LOT OF TIME to prepare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Then I will just assume that people will have their reasons and their own perception of what the conditions would be. I'll just assume Greyjedimaster threw out a bone and wanted to see who would go for it. And there are a lot of things that weren't mentioned that could be considered. How long does it take to churn out a battleship? A few days would actually be good time on the part of the Star Forge, but not for a battle. These two really can't be compared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironheart Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I'd have to say Star forge, but only because I was a KOTOR junkie well before I watched the movies/knew what the death star is. Really, it's hard to compare. They're from two different time periods. They're both bad *** though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 What about how long would it take before the Star Forge's location was discovered? If you didn't know where it was, that would give the SF a significant advantage in any battle. If the DS didn't have a target upon which to fire upon, then its superlaser is worthless. Another failed attempt to turn the tides of debate. Do you even know that in a vs threads, unless the TS stated something else, we debaters assume that both of them knows each other's location. This is just another form of "what-if", which is never accepted in a vs thread. You really need to go to vs boards in other sites to know more about how a vs thread go. GreyJediMaster hasn't posted in this thread since he started it, so I don't think we will get any conditions. And I think there is one more thing we haven't mentioned. The DS is VERY SLOW, just remember the countdown from ANH. It was 30 mins I guess? I don't remember exactly. If the SF was right behind the DS, the SF would have a LOT OF TIME to prepare. Slow in what, Dac? It doesn't take a very long time to fire the superlaser, and it's all DS need to win a battle against SF. I'd have to say Star forge, but only because I was a KOTOR junkie well before I watched the movies/knew what the death star is. Really, it's hard to compare. They're from two different time periods. They're both bad *** though. Look at the facts. I'm a fan of KOTOR, but I know where to put my vote judging from the facts. Look at other posts made by me, Dac, and Hord. Now if it was DS2 against starforge I might be tempted to go the way of the DS2 as it could fire pretty fast and was very accurate. Smart thinking. Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth-nihilus Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 HAHA STAR FORGE !! EASY !! lets imagina..you just order the mighty power of the star forge (it has something to with the force ..not just lasers) to create a deathstar...and there you go..now there's the deathstar vs the starforge, its army, and a deathstar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Hunger Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 And it's entirely possible to do so. Seriously, if we are discussing a scenario where the Star Forge and the Death Star are existing in the same time period and in the same Galaxy, all Revan needs are either schematics of the Death Star or of something very similar to the Death Star. The Star Forge then starts pumping out individual sections of the station, along with droid ships to assemble those sections into the complete product. Slow in what, Dac? It doesn't take a very long time to fire the superlaser, and it's all DS need to win a battle against SF. Uh, actually it does. The only reason why the Rebels on Yavin IV survived the final battle in A New Hope was BECAUSE the Death Star took forever to get into position and charge up its laser. And a shield around the Star Forge is perfectly possible. If a little facility on the Endor Forest Moon could project a deflector shield around the Death Star II, the Star Forge could certainly be configured to put up a shield around itself capable of deflecting the Death Star's blast using the power not only of the Lehon sun, but the FORCE ITSELF. Don't believe me? Let me quote part of your name sake: *evil breathing* The power to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force. *more evil breathing* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 It uses a forgotten Force technique devised by the Rakata to absorb' date=' redirect or deflect the energy. Happy now?[/quote'] For the record a mechanical item cannot re-direct or command the force... only living beings can. On topic: Also for those of you arguing that the Star Forge is more powerful, riddle me this... even if you get your thousand Sith Leviathans they can't take the Death Star down, she has planetary level shield generators that would simply ignore the turbolasers coming from those thousand ancient ships (Only the Super Laser and or a Torpedo Sphere can take a planetary shield down or overwhelm one since a ground assault is out for the Death Star), let alone the Death Star's own numerous weapons emplacements would be destroying the ships one after the other with better targeting systems, range, and firepower. One nav comp from one of the "Infinite Fleet" ships is all that needs to be secured and the DS would be on the move to use its Super-Laser on the Star Forge and that would be the end of that. Now since you add in the Star Forge getting to have its own fleet, and make more, you can't forget the fleet that the Death Star would have 'on tap' for the fight, while not as quickly replaceable they are 4000 years more advanced and far more powerful than the KotOR era ships. No matter the Star Forge's capabilities it takes a very long time to construct a Death Star Battle Station (Minimum 5-10 years with the most advanced construction techniques, the first Death Star took almost 20 years), even for the mighty Star Forge so that would be a waste of resources in any event, personally I would invest in some thruster and hyperspace engine packs for the Forge... but that is likely just me. In the end though the Death Star wins for the sheer fact it is mobile and armed adequately for the task of destroying targets like the Star Forge. But to give some perspective here if you asked me which one I would want personally... I would go for the Star Forge for it is more useful than the Death Star... I have made this decision before in the PnP game... and I took a Mobile Factory Battle Station for my HQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demongo Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Also for those of you arguing that the Star Forge is more powerful, riddle me this... even if you get your thousand Sith Leviathans they can't take the Death Star down, she has planetary level shield generators that would simply ignore the turbolasers coming from those thousand ancient ships (Only the Super Laser and or a Torpedo Sphere can take a planetary shield down or overwhelm one since a ground assault is out for the Death Star), let alone the Death Star's own numerous weapons emplacements would be destroying the ships one after the other with better targeting systems, range, and firepower. I'm on the Death Star's part but still, those thousands of Leviathans could destroy it's focusing crystals before it could fire. And LOH that is: *evil breathing* The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force. *more evil breathing* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Hord Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Seriously, if we are discussing a scenario where the Star Forge and the Death Star are existing in the same time period and in the same Galaxy, all Revan needs are either schematics of the Death Star or of something very similar to the Death Star. To quote myself: The problem with this theory is that it took the rebels a long time to get the Death Star plans and then analyze them. Malak's fighters would have no clue of the death stars weakness. And how many moon size battle stations with super lasers are there in the kotor era...... The Star Forge then starts pumping out individual sections of the station, along with droid ships to assemble those sections into the complete product. It has never produced droid control ships before so it magically can now? And can we be realist here? Uh, actually it does. The only reason why the Rebels on Yavin IV survived the final battle in A New Hope was BECAUSE the Death Star took forever to get into position and charge up its laser. 30 minutes is a really long time, the GE decided to use Yavin's orbit to get to the moon once they in the system to get around the planet. The SF is floating on top of the sun, what's going to get in the DS's way. And a shield around the Star Forge is perfectly possible. If a little facility on the Endor Forest Moon could project a deflector shield around the Death Star II, the Star Forge could certainly be configured to put up a shield around itself capable of deflecting the Death Star's blast using the power not only of the Lehon sun, but the FORCE ITSELF. To quote myself again: I don't think it (SF) had one (shield) and if did, it couldn't be that powerful. During the attack o the star forge, the sith were pwning the republic until Bastilla switched sides and then the remaining republic ships that broke through the lines were able to destroy it, and it was rather quick too so I don't see how it had it's own personal energy shield. The Empire's star destroyers are way more powerful then the 315m cruisers that destroyed the SF, so if they(and it would take lesser # of ships too) were to break through the line the it would be destroyed faster. So if 4000 yr. old republic crusiers can destroy it then a battlestation with enough power to destroy a planet (those republic cruisers/fighters don't have that type of combined) firepower can certainly do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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