Evil

[Tobias Reiper]

Let me start off by saying I have experience with Evil, which is explained later on, but anyway, the thing that just mind boggles me, is how some people are just evil, from school bullies to mass murderers, I still can't figure out why.

And it's not just the world, it's in these games too, and it's even worse then.

Now I love Fallout 3, and I occasionally look up videos that people have made in it, but then I saw somebody do the Evil ending,

 

Deciding to put the FEV in the water and send Lyons to her doom whilst she was thinking she was saving the Wastes, but all together destroying everyone.

 

I just got mad at that point because, WHY!?

Why would you do that!?!

And I can understand the occasional frenzy killings then loading an autosave after a game annoys you, which I in fact have done quite a few times, but it's the torturing and all that that just bugs me to no end, the NPC's being constantly entitled 'Misunderstood' when they're just total douches for no better reason than someone has to be.

Just the other day I walked by a School playground fence and heard a kid shoving a New Student around just so, and I quote, "To show this little geek that I rule, and he's nothin' but trash."

I hopped over the fence and shoved that punk in the ground then spit in his eye when he flipped over, and I am NOT ashamed of it.

Oh yes, there's also ANOTHER Evil, well, Evil isn't really the word for it, but instead just rude.

Now I've been in trouble with the Law, when I was a kid I had anger issues and well, I pushed my teacher, but that's not the point, I was put in front of the police officer and he actually, just for a push, started going off about how he'd love to put me in jail for years if he could, and I was 1 inch away from poking his eye out and kicking him in the groin because that's just uncalled for, sure, he may have been teaching me a lesson, but C'MON, do you REALLY have to go to that level?

Oh yes, and another thing, Murder. I know Murder, when it happens to your family or friends, it's just shocking that someone took them away from you, took away a good soul just for fun, or whatever reason.

When I was a kid I was, well, Kidnapped, and by who you wonder?

My own Father.

Took months to get me back and him in Jail, but my mother pulled it off, then heres the next bit of evil in my Childhood:

My Mom Re-married to a good guy, my stepdad, who was better than my scum dad than anyone else, and then a few years later growing up I learned that my Grandpa was killed by a Robber, and I know he wasn't my real Grandfather, because he was my Step Dad's dad, but I still liked him alot, and it was just shocking when I found out about it, and the worst bit was all I could remember of him was his cheery face when he saw the glee on mine after he gave me a set of toy cars that were made of wood for the rest of my life, in fact, to this very day.

What's your take on the Evil, and please, no discussions about how Fallout sucks or that I'm a douche for doing what I did, and please for the love of god, DON'T bug me about the officer thing, I get enough of that whenever I come into contact with my parents.

(P.S., I gave the picked on kid a hug and a bit of money as a reward for dealing with that.)

[SpaceAlex]

Says a guy who uses a picture of Mr.47 for his avatar.

 

Joking...

 

Anyway, it's not called evil, it's called stupidity. People like that have to exist so that the rest of us can feel better about ourselves, heh. Seriously, don't let it go over your head. "Evil" people can be annoying, but they exist and there's nothing you can do about it. Well, you can try to tech them a lesson if it makes you feel better...

 

EDIT: Looks like you added a little more drama to your post. Oh well, my point still stands (for the first half anyway).

[Rabish Bini]

Doing evil in games can be used to "let out steam".

Sometimes when i'm pissed off, I'll dust off my Hitman: Blood Money game and torture all people in a mission, one by one, until everyone is dead and all that's left is a bloody mess.

Plus, it can give you that good feeling inside knowing you're superior.

 

As for evil in the real world, I believe it's more or less a sort of medical condition or maybe even from outside interference, such as a traumatic experience in life, while other people are just big jerks.

Bullies on the other hand, usually are just misunderstood. Most bullies usually have a crappy life, have family issues or have had a terrible upbringing, such as beaten by their parents, and don't know any better than to do the same to others, and can even be a way of getting attention.

People like that police officer though are usually just jerks with large egos.

 

Good on you for sticking up for the kid by the way.

[Trench]

Wow, you gave a bully a beat down? I'm impressed (not that I encourage such things).

I often find myself disgusted and angered by the stupidity and cruelty of the human race.

Not only are many people violent and evil, but most other people are totally apathetic towards it.

My favorite quote:

Lets hope that the human race never escapes earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere

I hope I quoted that right.

[Tobias Reiper]

Says a guy who uses a picture of Mr.47 for his avatar.

 

Joking...

 

Anyway, it's not called evil, it's called stupidity. People like that have to exist so that the rest of us can feel better about ourselves, heh. Seriously, don't let it go over your head. "Evil" people can be annoying, but they exist and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

For 1, Agent 47 is NOT evil, if you think about it, and from what I can remember from the games, everyone he took down was a criminal in one way or another, pretty much making him a good guy.

For 2, While that may be true, what I'm asking is why they themselves are Evil, because making us feel better than them is obviously not their goal.

[Rabish Bini]

For 2, While that may be true, what I'm asking is why they themselves are Evil, because making us feel better than them is obviously not their goal.

I beleive I answered that farely well.

[Tobias Reiper]

I beleive I answered that farely well.

 

Well yes, but if you go back to my first post and read the edit's I made, I experienced two traumatic experiences that might make you think I'd have been a bully myself, taking up the family issues slot, but the wierd thing is, I didn't.

I was the nice guy in school, the funny one who helped you out when you needed it, and I mean, sure, I had my anger problem, but otherwise I didn't really have anything wrong with me, or so people thought, truth was, I was screwed up in the head, questioning philosophy and whatnot by age 10, and I was generally alone, the kind of alone where you have the friends and things, but there is a whole different field in your brain that nobody in society but yourself is in.

Not a single person could understand me, not in the Emo Teenager Moron way of wearing black, listening to screamo, and such, no, I hid all of it behind a mask of wholesomness so at least in some ways I was not alone, and could gain trust and then when the friends were gained teach them my ideals and how I see things, to which they saw as correct, but the point is that despite being flawed, I was not the Bully kind of flaw, and yet not one I've ever met has managed to be like me, ever.

[SpaceAlex]

For 1, Agent 47 is NOT evil, if you think about it, and from what I can remember from the games, everyone he took down was a criminal in one way or another, pretty much making him a good guy.

 

Hmm, can't exactly agree with that. While your assumption holds true for Silent Assassin and maybe even Contracts, he seemed to have changed in Blood Money where he shot three completely innocent people (the delivery boy, the priest, and the reporter) just so he could remain inconspicuous. He didn't seem to have a problem killing just about anyone if he got paid for it.

 

Anyway, I hope this is just a period he was going through and that the writers will try to do more with the character in the next Hitman. He was kind of bland in Blood Money.

 

But this thread isn't about Hitman, so...

 

For 2, While that may be true, what I'm asking is why they themselves are Evil, because making us feel better than them is obviously not their goal.

 

No, their goal is to look superior to everyone else, but no-one with a lick of sense shares their philosophy. So, the irony is that in trying to look superior, they actually make us feel better and superior. So in the end, it really works both ways.

 

 

Anyway, I wasn't being totally serious when I said that. I of course don't truly believe that's the only reason they exist.

 

As for evil in the real world, I believe it's more or less a sort of medical condition or maybe even from outside interference, such as a traumatic experience in life, while other people are just big jerks.

Bullies on the other hand, usually are just misunderstood. Most bullies usually have a crappy life, have family issues or have had a terrible upbringing, such as beaten by their parents, and don't know any better than to do the same to others, and can even be a way of getting attention.

 

And then there are some with perfect families (though that depends of one's definition of perfect) who grow up into serial killers. Granted, it is rare, but does happen. Some people are just born that way.

[Tobias Reiper]

Hmm, can't exactly agree with that. While your assumption holds true for Silent Assassin and maybe even Contracts, he seemed to have changed in Blood Money where he shot three completely innocent people (the delivery boy, the priest, and the reporter) just so he could remain inconspicuous. He didn't seem to have a problem killing just about anyone if he got paid for it.

 

Anyway, I hope this is just a period he was going through and that the writers will try to do more with the character in the next Hitman. He was kind of bland in Blood Money.

 

But this thread isn't about Hitman, so...

 

And in remaining inconspicuous he was allowed to kill more of the bad people.

Necessary deaths happen for greater goals in games.

[Master Shake]

It's called variety, and it just so happens to be the spice of life.

[Insignia_Enithma]

Just the other day I walked by a School playground fence and heard a kid shoving a New Student around just so, and I quote, "To show this little geek that I rule, and he's nothin' but trash."

I hopped over the fence and shoved that punk in the ground then spit in his eye when he flipped over, and I am NOT ashamed of it.

 

Tempted as I am to comment on the rest fo your post I know I'll jsut start ranting about my own life.

 

But this, I had to comment on.

 

Can I buy you a beer?

 

For the past five years I endured a great deal of bullying, Ive been stuck in gang fights with me being the only target, i've been kicked in, sent to hospital ect.

 

Your reaction, and what my exact reaction now (over these past five years especially in the last I have gained alot of musle and pain resistance) is what i'd like to see more.

 

bravo!

[Astor]

We've all, at some point in our lives, had problems with bullies. And i'm sure that we've all considered hitting out at them.

 

But i've always felt that violence only brings you down to their level. Have I ever wanted to hit someone who has caused me nothing but trouble? Of course. Did I? No, because as satisfying as it would have been to say I hit back, it was much more satisfying to solve the situation without violence.

 

Call it wimpish if you will, but i'm not a violent person. And i'm not going to get violent because some weak person decides that they're going to choose someone weaker than them as a target to satisfy their own insecurities.

 

As for 'Evil' I don't think that most things we encounter on a day-to-day basis are 'evil' - unless you work with mass murderers and other such people on a daily basis.

[Insignia_Enithma]

We've all, at some point in our lives, had problems with bullies. And i'm sure that we've all considered hitting out at them.

 

But i've always felt that violence only brings you down to their level. Have I ever wanted to hit someone who has caused me nothing but trouble? Of course. Did I? No, because as satisfying as it would have been to say I hit back, it was much more satisfying to solve the situation without violence.

 

Call it wimpish if you will, but i'm not a violent person. And i'm not going to get violent because some weak person decides that they're going to choose someone weaker than them as a target to satisfy their own insecurities.

 

As for 'Evil' I don't think that most things we encounter on a day-to-day basis are 'evil' - unless you work with mass murderers and other such people on a daily basis.

 

There are lot of cases that I would agree with you, where there are much better non violent aproaches to a situation. However wafter being mugeed sevral times at school, been attacked by over twenty people and some of which where recorded beating I have to say, after reporting this to the police (who shrug there shoulders and say its nothing to do with them), and then the school who punish me for self defence and dont discipline the bullies, bullying is not one of these times that dioplomacy will work.

 

So yeh I fight back, I wouldn't say that lowers em down to there level, its not like im verbally and physically torturing them shut a few punches here and there to get them to back off, and if I see someone else ahving a hard time from bullies I go help them.

 

And yes maybe the [peopel arnt "Evil" but there actions sure are.

 

And school kids act evil alot.

[Astor]

I'm sorry that both you and Tobias have had a rough time - i'm not saying that everyone can solve things peacefully - everyone is wired differently, after all.

 

And I have hit people (actually, a pair of football boots did the hitting - I merely did the swinging) - but I didn't feel good about breaking the guys nose afterwards. He'd been a jerk, but he didn't deserve a broken nose for simple name-calling and pushing me around.

 

That's why I try to avoid violence - because often, if someone has been pushed around a lot, and they snap, what they mete out is far worse than what they've recieved. In my experience, violence just causes more trouble.

 

And school kids act evil alot.

 

School kids just act mean - not evil. It may seem evil at the time, but it's not 'evil'.

[mur'phon]

Not much of a believer in "evil" simply because it apears to me that we are all simply doing what we believe benefits us the most. And by "benefits us" I'm talking about everything from a good feeling to material gain. So in the end, the guy who robs someone (for material gain) is no more "evil" than the guy who helps the victim fight back (for the good feeling of helping someone and/or having the victim owe him a favor).

[SpaceAlex]

Not much of a believer in "evil" simply because it apears to me that we are all simply doing what we believe benefits us the most. And by "benefits us" I'm talking about everything from a good feeling to material gain. So in the end' date=' the guy who robs someone (for material gain) is no more "evil" than the guy who helps the victim fight back (for the good feeling of helping someone and/or having the victim owe him a favor).[/quote']

 

You make a good point. I can't say I disagree.

[Q]

Not much of a believer in "evil" simply because it apears to me that we are all simply doing what we believe benefits us the most. And by "benefits us" I'm talking about everything from a good feeling to material gain. So in the end' date=' the guy who robs someone (for material gain) is no more "evil" than the guy who helps the victim fight back (for the good feeling of helping someone and/or having the victim owe him a favor).[/quote']

I think that the differentiating factor here would be either the consideration of how one's action effect another or the absence of said consideration.

[mur'phon]

Not sure how it's much of a differing factor regarding motivation. I care about how my actions afect others, and might well do things that harms me in some way, like paying for the bus for a friend without money, but I'd be lying to myself if I said that I did it because I'm good as oposed to because the fact that it makes me feel better/makes others think more highly of me/makes the other person "owe me one" etc. If I had valued the money spent on the bus more than the mentioned benefits of paying for my friend, I obviously wouldn't have done so. So wether I pay for my friend or not doesen't make my motivation anything else than what benefits me the most.

[El Sitherino]

The world is a cruel and unfair place, many people are selfish and act worse than a three-year-old that just learned the concept of "Mine!". I actually nearly went to jail recently due to some insane levels of selfishness all in efforts to do what I thought was needed in order to help someone, luckily law enforcement aren't as completely incompetent as I had believed and I am now back to continue fighting the good fight.

 

Moral of the story, never ever help anyone ever, unless you're willing to suffer.

[True_Avery]

And it's not just the world, it's in these games too, and it's even worse then.

Now I love Fallout 3, and I occasionally look up videos that people have made in it, but then I saw somebody do the Evil ending,

 

I just got mad at that point because, WHY!?

Why would you do that!?!

And I can understand the occasional frenzy killings then loading an autosave after a game annoys you, which I in fact have done quite a few times, but it's the torturing and all that that just bugs me to no end, the NPC's being constantly entitled 'Misunderstood' when they're just total douches for no better reason than someone has to be.

Playing a good or evil storyline in a video game is not "evil". It is a game, and you decide the narrative. Reading a book with a bad ending does not make you evil, and neither does running down a digital person in GTA. The "evil" ending and so on has its own narrative, and so does the "good".

 

It is also a work of fiction, so every character is "fake" to a certain degree so it is really useless to try to treat them like "normal" people.

 

The ending of Fallout 3 made no sense anyway regardless of the outcome, so I'll at least agree with you that it was stupid.

 

Just the other day I walked by a School playground fence and heard a kid shoving a New Student around just so, and I quote, "To show this little geek that I rule, and he's nothin' but trash."

I hopped over the fence and shoved that punk in the ground then spit in his eye when he flipped over, and I am NOT ashamed of it.

Yeah, good job on beating up that bully by going down to his level and claiming yourself the morally superior being.

 

Not saying what you did was better or worse, but don't take the "he was hitting some so that means I get to hit him!" route and then claim you are less evil than him.

 

I've attacked bullies in my time, but I wont sit here and explain why doing so makes me better than them.

 

Oh yes, and another thing, Murder. I know Murder, when it happens to your family or friends, it's just shocking that someone took them away from you, took away a good soul just for fun, or whatever reason.

When I was a kid I was, well, Kidnapped, and by who you wonder?

My own Father.

Took months to get me back and him in Jail, but my mother pulled it off, then heres the next bit of evil in my Childhood:

My Mom Re-married to a good guy, my stepdad, who was better than my scum dad than anyone else, and then a few years later growing up I learned that my Grandpa was killed by a Robber, and I know he wasn't my real Grandfather, because he was my Step Dad's dad, but I still liked him alot, and it was just shocking when I found out about it, and the worst bit was all I could remember of him was his cheery face when he saw the glee on mine after he gave me a set of toy cars that were made of wood for the rest of my life, in fact, to this very day.

I'm sorry for your loss, but then I am slightly confused about this:

 

For 1, Agent 47 is NOT evil, if you think about it, and from what I can remember from the games, everyone he took down was a criminal in one way or another, pretty much making him a good guy.

So, you've experience crime and murder but, yet, you are backing up a character who murders for a job? Again, not a lot of weight on your "evil" argument.

 

For 2, While that may be true, what I'm asking is why they themselves are Evil, because making us feel better than them is obviously not their goal.

You can answer this with your own quote:

 

And in remaining inconspicuous he was allowed to kill more of the bad people.

Necessary deaths happen for greater goals in games.

You've found a justification for murder, so I again question your use of the word "evil". 3 Innocent people for one "evil" person, an equal does not make. Maybe one for one, but, even if a video game, you've made a justification for a man to kill as many innocent people as he pleases because "he hunts 'evil' people".

 

Go back up to my point about bullies and sinking to their level.

 

And school kids act evil alot.

School kids are kids. Kids are humans who are not used to social contract, so they do what feels necessary or "right" to them. They are the perfect examples of what every one of us really is, and I can guarantee you that if we went into your past as a kid that we'd find some "evil" actions.

 

I do not know you at all, so I cannot make assumptions, but just consider this question: You have been attacked a lot and bullies a lot. Tomorrow you are taller, stronger, and a better fighter. You see the bullies picking on someone.

 

What do you do?

 

I don't really care or need to know your answer, but just contemplate it before using a dangerous word like "evil".

 

There are lot of cases that I would agree with you, where there are much better non violent aproaches to a situation. However wafter being mugeed sevral times at school, been attacked by over twenty people and some of which where recorded beating I have to say, after reporting this to the police (who shrug there shoulders and say its nothing to do with them), and then the school who punish me for self defence and dont discipline the bullies, bullying is not one of these times that dioplomacy will work.

Hate to say this, but there is always the courts and so on. You -can- legally sue the school for neglect, and even call out police officers and even entire stations for disregarding public safety.

 

My cousin was in the same spot as you, but in reality there is still always a place to go to try and fix these problems outside of simply resorting to violence. The cops do in fact have a legal obligation to assess your situation, so any cop that has told you that it isn't their problem... well, you could bring that to court quite easily.

 

What's your take on the Evil, and please, no discussions about how Fallout sucks or that I'm a douche for doing what I did, and please for the love of god, DON'T bug me about the officer thing, I get enough of that whenever I come into contact with my parents.

Then why bring it up?

 

You asked for my opinion on evil, so I explained it through your examples.

 

But, if you want a better summary:

 

Not much of a believer in "evil" simply because it apears to me that we are all simply doing what we believe benefits us the most. And by "benefits us" I'm talking about everything from a good feeling to material gain. So in the end, the guy who robs someone (for material gain) is no more "evil" than the guy who helps the victim fight back (for the good feeling of helping someone and/or having the victim owe him a favor).

 

Not sure how it's much of a differing factor regarding motivation. I care about how my actions affect others, and might well do things that harms me in some way, like paying for the bus for a friend without money, but I'd be lying to myself if I said that I did it because I'm good as opposed to because the fact that it makes me feel better/makes others think more highly of me/makes the other person "owe me one" etc. If I had valued the money spent on the bus more than the mentioned benefits of paying for my friend, I obviously wouldn't have done so. So whether I pay for my friend or not doesen't make my motivation anything else than what benefits me the most.

That pretty much summarizes my thoughts on the subject.

 

People suck, and every non-mentally handicapped person is capable of the "evil" and "good" of the next.

[Insignia_Enithma]

School kids are kids. Kids are humans who are not used to social contract, so they do what feels necessary or "right" to them. They are the perfect examples of what every one of us really is, and I can guarantee you that if we went into your past as a kid that we'd find some "evil" actions.

 

Sorry I left school (Im in the UK) this year so I'm 16. so yeh we can still probably consider me a kid. And I still think kids do some preatty evil acts and I don't deny myself doing some preatty stupid stuff like stealing shoplifting, something alot of kids go through.

 

I consider an act bad/evil/whatever when even though they know this is wrong, even though they have faced consequences they CONTINUE to do it.

 

I do not know you at all, so I cannot make assumptions, but just consider this question: You have been attacked a lot and bullies a lot. Tomorrow you are taller, stronger, and a better fighter. You see the bullies picking on someone.

 

What do you do?

 

I don't really care or need to know your answer, but just contemplate it before using a dangerous word like "evil".

 

Yeh you don't know me at all. The bullying caused em alot of mental illness soemthing I have only recovered from recently and do you know what, if I was bigger stronger tougher tommorrow, and saw a kdi being bullied, I'd walk up to the bully ask him to leave the kid alone, and then if he turned his agression on me. I would defend myself. If he hwoever continued his agressions on the kid, I'd get in the way. I've been in there position in fact I've had bullying worst then them majority, and I refuse to stand and let someone else suffer it.

 

And sorry but I really do not think thsi reduces me to there level.

 

Not at all.

 

I'm the not job adrenaline junky in my group standing in the way of someones aggression to people I know or don't know, is who I am.

 

Hate to say this, but there is always the courts and so on. You -can- legally sue the school for neglect, and even call out police officers and even entire stations for disregarding public safety.

 

My cousin was in the same spot as you, but in reality there is still always a place to go to try and fix these problems outside of simply resorting to violence. The cops do in fact have a legal obligation to assess your situation, so any cop that has told you that it isn't their problem... well, you could bring that to court quite easily.

 

We havn't the money for court fees ect. With my mum disabled and not working. Don't you thinkk I already knew this, I even looked into restraining orders but the police in the area REFUSE POINT BLANK to get involved with school bullying.

 

 

My replies are in bold.

[Q]

Not sure how it's much of a differing factor regarding motivation. I care about how my actions afect others' date=' and might well do things that harms me in some way, like paying for the bus for a friend without money, but I'd be lying to myself if I said that I did it because I'm good as oposed to because the fact that it makes me feel better/makes others think more highly of me/makes the other person "owe me one" etc. If I had valued the money spent on the bus more than the mentioned benefits of paying for my friend, I obviously wouldn't have done so. So wether I pay for my friend or not doesen't make my motivation anything else than what benefits me the most.[/quote']

What about the ones that think that bashing an innocent person's skull in benefits them the most? Or those who simply erode someone's else's self-esteem to benefit their own? Or those who are so ruthlessly hedonistic that they don't care who they hurt as long as they get what they want?

 

Are you trying to say that there is no difference between their personalities and that of someone who lives according to a policy of not harming others? Because, frankly, I see a big difference, there.

I don't really care or need to know your answer, but just contemplate it before using a dangerous word like "evil".

Dangerous to whom? Evil-doers who are trying to weasel out of being labeled?

[True_Avery]

Sorry I left school (Im in the UK) this year so I'm 16. so yeh we can still probably consider me a kid. And I still think kids do some pretty evil acts and I don't deny myself doing some pretty stupid stuff like stealing shoplifting, something alot of kids go through.

 

I consider an act bad/evil/whatever when even though they know this is wrong, even though they have faced consequences they CONTINUE to do it.

Well, by doing something you know is wrong over and over again you are effectively doing an act of insanity, but I see your point non-the-less.

 

Bullies usually pick on people to feel better, stronger, etc. To them it is right, so it isn't really that they are doing something they know is wrong, but more of doing something that feels right to them. Not so much "evil", but venting their selfishness.

 

Until they find a new outlet of some sort, or personally come to terms with the idea that what they are doing is "wrong", consequences mean little as it is, to them, only an impediment to their own self fulfillment. The consequences are seen as an attempt to hurt them, not not as an attempt to teach them something.

 

"Bad" I'll agree with. "Evil" is a strong word that I'd replace with "selfish ignorance", which are two words that summarize children better than any others I can think up.

 

Yeah, that all basically fits what most people would call "evil", but I still believe that word implies that they know what they are doing is wrong, which, in my opinion, is a personally type that only exists within fiction.

 

Does that make what they are doing right or wrong? Does that give my permission to bully people? No, it doesn't. In no way am I giving permission to do such, but simply explaining why I do not like the word "evil" being used. If you would like to call them "bad", or any other variety of cuss words then feel free to do so and I probably will agree.

 

Yeh you don't know me at all. The bullying caused em alot of mental illness something I have only recovered from recently and do you know what, if I was bigger stronger tougher tomorrow, and saw a kdi being bullied, I'd walk up to the bully ask him to leave the kid alone, and then if he turned his aggression on me. I would defend myself. If he however continued his aggressions on the kid, I'd get in the way. I've been in there position in fact I've had bullying worst then them majority, and I refuse to stand and let someone else suffer it.

 

And sorry but I really do not think this reduces me to there level.

 

Not at all.

 

I'm the not job adrenaline junky in my group standing in the way of someones aggression to people I know or don't know, is who I am.

Fair enough.

 

But, in my experience, standing up to bullies give a level of self fulfillment and respect, but it has also gotten me in trouble. I'll admit right here that fighting back and hitting people who've messed with me has done wonders, and gotten real jerks off my back for the rest of my life.

 

Fighting back has worked for me socially, however it got my into a lot of trouble in elementary school and almost got me expelled from my Middle and High School. As an adult if I stepped in and defended someone and hurt the other person, then I could go to jail or get slapped with a fine, arrested, and so on.

 

I say "going down to their level" not out of a moral reason. Defend the kid for all I care. Hell, I'd help you out. But, as far as the Principle, and eventually the cops are concerned you still got into a fight, and you are still under arrest until proving that you had the high ground in that situation.

 

In my opinion, it works in School and, ironically, works in Jail/Prison but outside of that it comes with harder consequences. Especially if you are an adult and you step into a fight between kids and someone gets hurt.

 

If it is self defense, then go ahead. It just isn't a recommended way to go through life. Hell, if you ask a lawyer the first thing they'll tell you is "Don't fight back physically. Fight back with a lawyer."

 

We havn't the money for court fees ect. With my mum disabled and not working. Don't you thinkk I already knew this, I even looked into restraining orders but the police in the area REFUSE POINT BLANK to get involved with school bullying.

I understand. My point was merely that diplomacy can still be reached, but as in your situation the level of that diplomacy is out of your hands.

 

However, organized parents, and organized court case, and so on could have a lot of effects on the school and would probably do better than to bully the bullies. You may have gotten out, and I can understand your money problem, but the issue of your law enforcement adamantly refusing to do anything is a serious problem in your area.

 

Hell, keep going up the school ladder until you find someone that will listen. You can't have been the only kid being picked on, so get with them and their parents and go up with them.

 

If it was a problem for you, it'll be a problem for others. I know you know this, but just repeating why I think your situation is one, in particular, that really needs to be addressed by your community.

[Q]

Well, by doing something you know is wrong over and over again you are effectively doing an act of insanity

There must be a lot of insane people on the planet, then.

Yeah, that all basically fits what most people would call "evil", but I still believe that word implies that they know what they are doing is wrong,

And you would be right about that.

which, in my opinion, is a personally type that only exists within fiction.

But here I completely disagree with you.

[Q]

Because you don't like to hear the truth about yourself? Because you're throwing a party because I refused to hurt your puppies and kittens? Because you know that I think that you are a phenomenal person of incredible taste and beauty and I would never dream of making Jae edit my post while she's on her Florida vacation?