Monkey Island 2 Remake

[Megakles]

Oh man, I hate LeChuck's voice. He's a decaying zombie, I always imagined his voice to be scratchy, gravelley... Boen's take sounds so casual and cartoon pompous. Elaine is pretty off as well. A lot of the other supporting characters were nailed, but I think they dropped the ball pretty badly on leChuck and Elaine.

 

iMuse is awesome! Yes yes yes! And the artwork looks beautiful overall. I guess I'll just have to mute the voices... which is a pity, because a lot of them are great. It was a delight hearing the woodchuck lines.

[Snugglecakes]

This bits optional, it's something they added so the it works better with a controller in the console versions, but you can still use point and click in the PC version.

 

Yep I know Fine by me as long as I can be a sloth and only move one muscle while playing like I did all these games 20 years ago.

[Rapp Scallion]

Electrocuting would be good, yes! But it's not the performance of the scream that bothers me the most, it's that Guybrush apparently gets acid in his mouth, which doesn't happen in the game! And I don't think gargling was what LeChuck wanted to listen to every morning, while sitting in his screaming chair made from Guybrush's bones...

 

Oh, come on, the game IS really dark in places. I really enjoy the variety of different moods in the game. Why does people try to tell me that it should feel like a saturday morning cartoon when the hero of the game gets lowered, screaming, into a pit of acid? Yes, the darker parts are loaded with humour, but they still have a feeling of tension and maybe a little fear about them. Just because a game is funny doesn't mean it has to be about the jokes all of the time. And the fact that the lowering of Guybrush into the acid is all a joke as a whole ("...OK, so I embellished it a little for dramatic effect."), doesn't make the lowering itself comical. A cartoon doesn't have to make you laugh before the punchline. And when you're not expecting the punchline, it's often funnier.

 

But this discussion has been had many times... And no, I didn't think his screaming was all that bad, I was just trying to make a point.

 

 

 

And I have to agree with Megakles about LeChuck's voice. Boen was perfect in CMI, but he's not right for the kind of zombie LeChuck is in MI2.

[Varrok]

Oh man, I hate LeChuck's voice. He's a decaying zombie, I always imagined his voice to be scratchy, gravelley... Boen's take sounds so casual and cartoon pompous.

Agreed.

 

Oh, come on, the game IS really dark in places. I really enjoy the variety of different moods in the game. Why does people try to tell me that it should feel like a saturday morning cartoon when the hero of the game gets lowered, screaming, into a pit of acid? Yes, the darker parts are loaded with humour, but they still have a feeling of tension and maybe a little fear about them. Just because a game is funny doesn't mean it has to be about the jokes all of the time. And the fact that the lowering of Guybrush into the acid is all a joke as a whole ("...OK, so I embellished it a little for dramatic effect."), doesn't make the lowering itself comical. A cartoon doesn't have to make you laugh before the punchline. And when you're not expecting the punchline, it's often funnier.

Agreed even more!

 

Complaining about boxart on a downloadable game...I mean, there's no box. It's like complaining that a poster in a movie (as in a poster you see in the movie itself) is crap.

If it's crap, tell me a reason to not complain about it : /

 

BTW. Still too many characters look ugly/disgusting to me: Voodoo lady, 2 pirates at beginning, people on spitting contest...

[Remi]

The lightning in the drop-pants-by-grave is really quite nice.

[Snugglecakes]

I've just sort of resigned myself to the fact that the SE is going to be more cartoony than the originals. It will certainly make sure that the original remains my favourite, the proper MI2 I know and love, but this is going to be good fun to play through. Varrok I agree but it looks like we're stuck with Bart & Fink looking like they do. In the original they look like... humans. Oh well. The original will without doubt remain the definitive version of MI2 for me, as with MI1 (even more so) because of all this stuff, but there's certainly enough reason to buy the SE, play it once, and probably forget about it while playing the original once a year for the rest of time.

 

The lightning in the drop-pants-by-grave is really quite nice.

 

The lighting is nice in lots of places yeah. Look at Guybrush walking through Woodtick and how the light falls on him. Very nice.

[Varrok]

They thought about giving to player a chance to play normal version with SE dubbing... but normal version with SE music? I doubt it - IMO it might be good : P

[Rosefull]

Maybe I'm just too young, but I think this whole project looks FABULOUS. The music, the voices, the graphical update. And I truly appreciate how LucasArts is trying their very best to be faithful to the original. I played MI2 once, so many years ago that I barely remember it because I was like... four. My dad and I beat it together, haha. But just watching that video jogged some ancient caves in my memory, and I just really can't wait for this SE to come out.

[Monkey Mania]

Yet more complaining...sigh.

[Thrik]

Are you guys mental? LeChuck is totally nailed, including his voice! His animation in particular is fantastic.

 

I guess the problem with a project like this is everyone has their own mental image of what it should be. LeChuck's execution is pretty much everything I could have wanted.

[Threepwood4life]

Have you watched the youtube video with the CC on? read the transcribes its brilliant how it picks certain words up and replaces them with totally different words.

[Kroms]

Well, there's people who complain that his CMI version sucked: "Hands, too small! Body, too small! VIVA LA GILBERT!"

[Gabez]

Oh man, I hate LeChuck's voice. He's a decaying zombie, I always imagined his voice to be scratchy, gravelley... Boen's take sounds so casual and cartoon pompous.

 

Boen does fit CMI and later LeChucks better I think, but then it's good to have continuity as well. I did think when watching the trailer that LeChuck's voice should be a bit more flemmy since he's spitting so much in the animation... but oh well.

[KestrelPi]

Loved it, the video. Especially the music, everything's sounding awesome.

 

The only thing I thought was odd is that Jesse Harlin was talking about how they'd figured out all the iMUSE stuff, but the video accompanying his voiceover clearly doesn't have any iMUSE magic working on it - the transitions aren't there.

 

A few possibilities:

 

1. They've worked in iMUSE where possible but have had to compromise on some of the more complex stuff.

 

2. Whoever put together the video was working off an early version, or the iMUSE stuff wasn't working on that section when the video was made

 

3. He was basically overstating how much of the iMUSE stuff they've managed to implement.

 

Regardless, the music sounds so good that I can't wait to hear the whole soundtrack.

[Rosefull]

iMUSE or no iMUSE, I'm excited about the music too! I thought the soundtrack for the first SE was pretty dang awesome (especially the opening theme and the ghost ship song) so I really can't wait to hear this one.

[Snugglecakes]

but the video accompanying his voiceover clearly doesn't have any iMUSE magic working on it - the transitions aren't there.

 

You're right. The transitions in the video are very abrupt. Guess we'll have to wait and see...

[Udvarnoky]

I get the impression that getting the iMUSE stuff working has taken them all the way up to the last minute, so I wouldn't get too paranoid about the abrupt cuts heard in the video.

[jermy721]

does anyone have concerns about Guybrushs voice besides me? In all the other games his voice works with Dom but this game has a somewhat different Guybrush. Seeing the games art and hearing the voice just doest seem right to me.

[Snugglecakes]

does anyone have concerns about Guybrushs voice besides me? In all the other games his voice works with Dom but this game has a somewhat different Guybrush. Seeing the games art and hearing the voice just doest seem right to me.

 

I need to be careful here but I've never been a big fan of Guybrush's voice. Dominic Armato's sheer enthusiasm and knowledge more than makes up for it, but the first time I fired up CMI I was borderline horrified. Thing is, it doesn't matter who they used, some would've hated it as we all had different ideas about how Guybrush should sound.

 

My problem with Dom's voice was that it added to this cartoon factor that crept into the MI games. It's VERY enthusiastic in places, maybe, just maybe, overdone. We're all so used to it now that it doesn't really matter that much, but I'm kinda with you on that.

 

I'm a huge fan of Dominic Armato, don't get me wrong, but not such a huge fan of Guybrush's voice. It's been 13 years though and the thought hardly crosses my mind anymore.

 

I DO however still love the plain text dialogue of the old games and I'll continue playing them forever. I'll use the reading-a-book analogy again, the blocky pixels, no voices, it lets your imagination fill in the blanks and this is why it's impossible to please everyone with the special editions.

 

Kroms: I know I'm mentioning the cartoon thing again and we'll probably never agree on it but I like you anyway because your news posts on Mojo make me laugh so much that milk comes out of my nose.

[Rosefull]

I find that interesting because I've always thought Dom was perfect for Guybrush. I remember being pleasantly surprised when I first played CMI. I've always thought the voice suited him nicely. Though I suppose it's a little more appropriate for the more light-hearted, funny Guybrush, and MI2 does get a bit serious. But his delivery on all the classic MI jokes is still flawless.

 

Then again, Curse is the first MI game I beat by myself, and I was significantly older when I played that than when I played the first two, so maybe the reason I like the voice so much is because to me, it's kind of always been there.

[Snugglecakes]

Rosefull yeah, that's the thing, he knows the games so well and it shines through. And yeah, for those whose first proper MI experience was CMI, this must all be a lot easier to accept.

 

I've started playing through CMI again and even though it did change things a bit, I still think it's a masterpiece. Still don't like the way Guybrush looks in it, and unfortunately it set the precedent for all the sequels since then, but if you grew up on MI1 and MI2, seeing Guybrush that skinny, with that long face, and hearing his voice... it was a bit of a shock.

[jermy721]

I hope Dom was aware of this and used a slightly different voice for Guybrush

[Kroms]

Kroms: I know I'm mentioning the cartoon thing again and we'll probably never agree on it

 

Okay, one very long post coming here.

 

To be perfectly honest - and I haven't been on these forums - Monkey Island is NOT a cartoon. The only reason I've been saying it is a cartoon is to tell the mental crowd I disagree with them. You know who they are: "Monkey Island now sux! Give me 2D or give me death! Make it dark and adult! Make Guybrush scream! Yeah! Give him a black coat!" And in my mind I'm going: "Would you like some S&M with that."

 

See, Monkey Island does have this very specific set of specific tones to it. One is what I call "Being in a lonely dream", which is prevalent in Monkey Island 2, especially on Phatt; another is a feeling that there is always more going on in the background than in the foreground, the sense that there is always another experience just out of reach. There's a light darkness: very dark things happen in a lighthearted way. There was a lot of that in the third act of "Lair of the Leviathan" (on deck). Monkey Island 2 does a lot of it, always employing a bit of irony on the way. There's a few other tones I can't describe very well in text, but need to demonstrate.

 

I mean, I totally get why some people didn't like, say, "The Trial and Execution of Guybrush Threepwood", and I mean that in terms of tone, not pacing or puzzles. I was confused for a few months, because I had no idea what people were talking about when they were complaining, and figured that I didn't know **** about adventure games or Monkey Island. A week or so ago I realized that I did know what people were talking about: they were just confusing terminology. People were put off by Guybrush talking to himself in prison, or by the randomly appearing guard (Hardtack). These things are funny, but maybe not appropriate for Monkey Island. Evan Dickens tried to say that in his review on Adventure Gamers and failed completely, instead deciding to describe Trial as having silliness and Levithan as having "biting wit". I've been wondering what the hell he's talking about since October. Turns out I already knew.

 

Yes, puzzle solutions in Monkey Island are usually funny. Yes, "Leviathan" got that right. There's a reason why the manatee love puzzle was so great. Yes, the writing in Monkey Island or in any good game isn't just the dialogue or the story, but the puzzles as well. The chapter 3 guys understood how to make individual solutions funny, and how to set things in a proper tone. They understood that "Tales" was about trust, and centred their game on that. They knew how to incorporate the sea horse head, they knew how to use DeCava's locket and Morgan's sword as both puzzle solutions and story elements. They understood what they symbolized. It helped them structure their game properly.

 

So, no, Monkey Island is not a cartoon, as absolutely bizarre as it can get.

 

I'm going to now end this novel. I can try explaining further and in clearer terms when I have a bit of time, or, failing that: I think I'm going to try and make a Monkey Island fangame this year (aka to be done before December 31st), as a way to put a lot of my design theories to test, so maybe you'll see what I mean then. I don't know if I'll succeed, but you'll at least be able to see what I *tried* to do.

 

but I like you anyway because your news posts on Mojo make me laugh so much that milk comes out of my nose.

 

Suhweet. Make sure you don't do it with a bowl of cereal in front of you, though, because you never know where that **** can land, you'll take a bite and oh boy will you be in for a nasty surprise.

[Snugglecakes]

Haha!!! Well I'll be damned we agree after all. I said a while ago that yes there is madness in Monkey Island, but I think of it more as Jim Carey facial special effects in a Pirates of the Caribbean environment (real buildings & places) than a Tom & Jerry cartoon, or for that matter even DOTT or Sam & Max.

 

And this is what gets to me about that box art. I know it doesn't matter much, but it was one of the first things we saw of this SE and it had me worried. The original box art was perfectly representative of my take on the original game. The new version is frankly awful. I suspect they'll change it though because LeChuck in-game looks nothing like the box art LeChuck. I certainly hope so, but they need to change the whole atmosphere of it too. Same thing with MI1:SE. I look at the original and I think adventure, intrigue, danger, flavoured with outrageous comedy. Then I look at the SE box art and I'm thinking children's game. I want to be in the original box art, I'd love to walk around in that place. You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming into the SE box art environment.

 

Even CMI got the environment right. The characters starting departing from the originals though.

 

And as much as I love and respect TMI as a game, and I enjoyed it thoroughly, it's a far cry from the original vibe. I love it, will play it again many times I'm sure. But for Monkey Island at its pure best, it's always going to be the first two.

 

EMI is not a Monkey Island game and I refuse to discuss it.

 

*Puts his cereal to one side and fires up "The Germans" episode of Fawlty Towers.

[Kroms]

They had to change the character designs in CMI for animation purposes. The original designs couldn't be translated very efficiently into the non-pixellated look 1997 demanded.

 

As for TMI: I understand why people might take issue with it, and it is a flawed game. I'm hoping TTG get a chance to do another one, because they're now getting really good. They'll never make a huuuge one without voices and with the surreal silence that SMI and MI2 had - it just isn't feasible - but they can at least get the tone right, which they're getting very good at. I was thinking yesterday that long shots, like inside the mouth of the manatee, help with establishing ye olde feeling of olde.

 

I'm personally hoping for richer, more...alive (?) islands to visit, and more of them in number. If you take a look at CMI, for example, the background art makes you think there could be something there in the background.

 

 

Just little things like the placement of the horizon make it seem more alive. I like that. I'm also hoping for a larger number of islands, or at least rich, interesting places to visit. And maybe TTG developing their characters, because they're nice, but not...alive (the secondary ones, I mean, not DeSinge/Morgan/etc). For example, I hope Winslow never mentions a map again. Really. I want to see a new side to that guy.