mimartin Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Nice to prefer theories over facts or opinions over facts too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hessian Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Nice to prefer theories over facts or opinions over facts too. Like I said, I don't like arguing with anybody (especially moderators ), but the only facts I'll accept are the ones that come straight from Bioware. All of the "facts" that you and Achilles posted here are way too ambiguous in my book. Just call me stubborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthParametric Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Which has been my point all along. There are virtually no "facts" - it's pretty much all supposition whichever side of the fence you are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salzella Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'm not one for long arguments (even though I prefer DarthParametric's theories) so I think I'll just go and give Skyrim a few turns and leave all things regarding ME3 shelved for now. Hah, speak for yourself, if I had any choice in the matter (essays ) I would totally be diving in for my second playthrough right now and righting the wrongs I made before. In fact, screw the essays I might just do that anyway And briefly, I thought James was O.K., if a bit annoying sometimes. Like others, I would rather have had someone else from the previous games but i can understand why they left them out given that Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) most of the ME2 party members die grisly deaths. Would have quite liked to have had Legion back though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Nether of you will believe the game itself? Seriously why do you even play video games if you do not believe what is stated in them? That makes no sense what so ever to me. Yes, given your premise that it has to be spelled out in crayon the last five mins to be valid, then I completely agree with you Mass Effect 3 ending worse than I thought, but with the constraints you have place on them so does every other game written for anyone over the age 17. Any game that makes you think or pay attention is bad. Sorry, I can see why we have different taste in video games, I want games that make me think a little. Now I loved KOTOR and Jade Empire, but thinkers they were not, I find a game like ME3 and TSL way more enjoyable and replayable because you have to figure it out. Sure games can be brainless fun, but don't moan when a producer makes a game for people that actually like to think too. Not that this matters. (afterall it was in the game which doesn't matter unless it was the last five seconds) Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) I maintain that not much imagination is required to figure out how a race organic/synthetic hybrids would overcome some of these issues. Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) It takes no imagination to jump from a to b depending on your choices with the Geth vs Quarian conflict. If you get the best outcome, both the Geth and Quarians as assets, then you just need to talk to Tali and ask how things are doing on her planet now. The part about the Geth entering the quarians suits is very enlightening and give you hint of what synthetic could do to a organic body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salzella Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) If you get the best outcome, both the Geth and Quarians as assets, then you just need to talk to Tali and ask how things are doing on her planet now. The part about the Geth entering the quarians suits is very enlightening and give you hint of what synthetic could do to a organic body. How much reputation do you need to get this outcome? I thought i had enough, but then when i Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) decided to upload the reaper tech to the Geth, i didn't have the 'rally the fleet' option. So i decided to upload anyway, hoping the Quarians would hold out. Obviously they didn't and i had to watch the quarian fleet fall to earth as flaming debris and then watch Tali throw herself off a cliff when i missed a paragon interrupt because i took a drink of wine at a bad time, would rather avoid a repeat of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthParametric Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 You realise there are 3 endings right? Your assumptions for that 1 ending don't necessarily hold across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 How much reputation do you need to get this outcome? I thought i had enough, but then when i Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) decided to upload the reaper tech to the Geth, i didn't have the 'rally the fleet' option. So i decided to upload anyway, hoping the Quarians would hold out. Obviously they didn't and i had to watch the quarian fleet fall to earth as flaming debris and then watch Tali throw herself off a cliff when i missed a paragon interrupt because i took a drink of wine at a bad time, would rather avoid a repeat of this Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) Everything happened the same with me, except the Quarians stood down at the last second. I have no clue about the reputation I had at the time, but Lynk told me to do all the other side quest on Rannoch before doing that quest. I am really thankful he told me that. Not sure if my actions in ME2 had anything to do with this outcome, but this Shepard was Paragon to the core. You realise there are 3 endings right? Your assumptions for that 1 ending don't necessarily hold across the board. I’m sorry you hate the game. Salzella obliviously knows the ending having completed the game once. From Salzella question I think it is also clear that Salzella also understands that Shepard’s choices have meaning outside of the final five mins of the game. I did you a favor and stopped harping on puppy dogs and rainbows, will you please quit harping on choices don’t matter. I agree they matter very little to none in the last 5 mins, but they do matter in the other 32h29m I played the game. I would post different outcomes to different former crew members meetings, but that is in the game and not in the last 5 mins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Yeah, I'm a little bewildered by the reputation system this time 'round. In my first playthrough, I imported a ME2 Shep which gave me a decent amount of reputation from the get-go. Once I got to the end, Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) I had a paragon option that resulted in TIM shooting himself, ala Saren. For the second playthrough, I imported that same Shep (i.e. an ME3 import, but with all the choices from 1 & 2). My reputation bar was full. All my acquired armor, weapons, upgrades, and fish were still there. However, when I got to that same part, neither the paragon nor the renegade option were available. It could be that I had slightly more renegade that time through, and the options are only available if you have a high % paragon or renegade (95% or something like that, when I only had 91%). It could also be that I opted for the damage/power bonus over the reputation/duration bonus when I was spending my character points because my bar was full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I had those conversations blackout on my playthrough too. My reputation bar was full, and I had only taking one renegade hit the entire game (until I took one there (also pretty sure you know the other place I took one too)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthParametric Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 You have to choose the charm/intimidate option on Mars to unlock it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I thought I had, but it's entirely possible that I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) Alright, just finished the game, and seem to have made the horrible decision to not open a bottle of wine before going to Earth. Mim: I disagree on the endings being clear (and yes, I had the Protean and I'm fairly certain I didn't miss anything important). The "control" ending didn't mention the relays at all, and I have no idea why they would go poof just because the Reapers are now controlled by Shepard. The "synthesis" ending is also left wide open, the only thing I got from Tali regarding the Geth was that they where somehow "simulating viruses" (how, I have no idea) in order to prepare them for a life without suits, nothing on merging with the reapers. That said, my main problem isn't really with the poor explanation and the potential plot holes. My problem is that they left me wanting to feast on the blood of game developers (I'm vegetarian) for not delivering on the promises made implicitly and explicitly (basically point 5, 2 and 1 from DP's link). It essentially made me feel like when I finished NWN2 (only worse, I was much less invested in NWN's story). Just like NWN2 there doesn't seem to be any plot holes (and just like NWN Achilles is willing to defend the ending to the death:D). It still can't be called a good ending. However NWN2 just screwed up a dungeon, and then partly rectified that by adding an expansion with one of the best endings in gaming (my opinion, but hey). ME3 screwed an entire galaxy, so I don't see much hope for any rectifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthParametric Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I thought I had, but it's entirely possible that I missed it.There might also be another one later on, on the station. My understanding is you have to take every single charm/intimidate option in all conversations with him to unlock the very last one. I know my last playthrough I missed the Mars one as you have to go through the left-hand dialogue branch to access it and I skipped over it at the time. [hidden]ME3 screwed an entire galaxy' date=' so I don't see much hope for any rectifying.[/hidden']I gather that is point. Wipe the slate clean for future games. Unnecessary in my opinion, and surely undesirable given the effort in building the IP to this point, but I guess we'll see what the future holds in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) Mim: I disagree on the endings being clear (and yes' date=' I had the Protean and I'm fairly certain I didn't miss anything important). [/hidden'] [hidden]Sorry if I wrote clear somewhere, it defiantly wasn't that, but almost all the answers are there if you listen to everyone and add it up. Just so we are clear, I will say it again, I did not like the ending, gotten a few emails from people thinking I am defending the ending because I love it. I am just saying that saying something are plot holes that are not and saying there are no answers when there are answers is unfair. Saying choices don't matter at all when the clearly do (again not really in the last five mins) are unfair or saying there is no paragon ending when Galactic Peace for all-time is clearly a paragon ending. Saying there is no closure when you get to talk to everyone and their dog that has every set foot near the Normandy at the end is also unfair. Saying there are only three choices and basically they are what is your favorite color, to me is a fair criticism. I still can't believe I am defending something that I don't like. All I am saying is it sucks less than some of you are saying, if you are honest and think about it. I'm not going to let 5 mins ruin the entire game trilogy. I thought Mass Effect 3 was the greatest game of all-time up until Shepard passed out the third time. I'm also saying the ending isn't that farfetched and the clues were there because I guess most of it before I even got there. The clues had to come from somewhere for me to get that close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ooops forgot the spoiler tags. By "clear" I meant as in, possible to find in the game (okay, so not clear at all, but it made sense in my head). I still stand by that statement, if a game wants to copy the worst part of DEHR, the least they could have done was copying the bit about making the consequences clear for anyone who did what they could to grab clues. I don't want any paragon ending, heck of my two favorite game endings ever, one involved being sent to hell and the other an unfinished mask. I guess we mostly agree, it might suck less than some think, however I don't see myself as part of "some". Did it ruin the entire game for me? Not really, I thought it was fantastic just as long as you did. However, it did ruin my evening, and it will make any replays I do much, much, less fun. Kinda makes me wish ME3 was made by CDPR, at least TW2 will get a new ending (not DLC/expansion, they are redoing the ending as free DLC). @DP: My point was that wiping the slate clean limits what they can do to remedy the situation, thus hoping for some sort of MotB savior is probably pointless. The fact that it was intentional doesn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taak Farst Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Mim, regardless of how you want to say it, this whole thread shows another of BioWare's failures with the ending. It's tearing the ME3 crowd into two, but regardless of how you look at it, no matter who is right, we ARE still expected to fill in the blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Trust me, Tuesday morning at about 1:30 am if I would had written anything on the forum I would have had to ban myself, because it would have been a few choice 4 letter words. I'm really glad that I slept on it before writing anything because I would have had to eat some of those words. Mim, regardless of how you want to say it, this whole thread shows another of BioWare's failures with the ending. It's tearing the ME3 crowd into two, but regardless of how you look at it, no matter who is right, we ARE still expected to fill in the blanks. I don't know, check out how many game threads on this forum has over 1000 posts....I think bioware pretty much knows what they are doing. I hate most of it, but they keep themselves and their products in the news and on peoples lips and that is half the battle. If you don't like it, you can always vote with your pocket book. I'm going to vote with mine by giving them more money so I can play more TOR. see what I mean http://www.ingame.msnbc.msn.com/technology/ingame/director-mass-effect-3-responds-those-critical-its-ending-442217 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I really don't get why you're getting up in arms about defending an ending you yourself don't even like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I really don't get why you're getting up in arms about defending an ending you yourself don't even like...Bioware promised him a free snow cone to represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsFicwriter Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'm wondering if I should play ME1 and 2 again to get the full experience for 3. Are the choices that you make in the first two games really that awesome in the third one, the endings notwithstanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 There are some choices in 1 that are only significant in 3, however 2 has a lot of influence. I'm taking a pass on Insanity and doing a start-to-finish run now. Just about to meet Saren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthParametric Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The most important thing is who lived and who died, particularly in ME2. A lot of things are set to happen regardless of your previous choices, although these are generally acknowledged at least (and on a couple of occasions draw an appropriate "wtf was it all for?!" from Shepard). Edit: RPS offer up a fairly balanced take on the ending debate, agreeing and disagreeing with elements from both sides - http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/14/mass-effect-3-the-end-of-an-epic/ Spoilers obviously. Also, he stole my Casper reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taak Farst Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'm taking a pass on Insanity and doing a start-to-finish run now. Just about to meet Saren Started my ME3 insanity run, figured i'd go out with a bang and get all the achievements. Not that bad for me, so far. I am about to do Grissom Academy though, and I hear the Atrium is a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salzella Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 An Insanity run sounds like a good idea actually... besides ME1 where anything above 'Veteran' is frankly tedious. Let's face it, combat in the first one sucked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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