Whats your opinoin on SWTOR in relation to the kotor series?

[TKA-001]

"The moment passed and the universe began to move again, though everything seemed to be happening in slow motion."

...

"Revan's head snapped to the side, shock and horror emanating from him even though his mask hid his expression."

Somewhat appropriately, Revan is admittedly the weak link of the three, though decent as far as the larger EU is concerned (if you want some real beige prose, check out any of the movie novelizations other than RotS). Kemp's and Williams' contributions had (among other things) the advantage of not being shackled to predetermined foregone conclusions in their plots.

[Prime]

The KOTOR comics are awesome.

[Giant Graffiti]

^^^

 

I thought so too, until the artwork started looking like this:

 

image.jpg

 

and when that ridiculous time-travel nonsense subplot began.

 

e: tinypic is horrible.

[Sabretooth]

He just says that cause he can't pirate it

 

Ehh I don't really like what they did with Revan and the general setting of of the game, which appears to be custom-tailored for MMOing. Another Sith invasion which the noble Jedi have to fight off in an epic war? Haven't we done that a million times already?

 

It's also ridiculously hugging the original-trilogy aesthetically. For all its OT homages, KotOR maintained a distinct style that made it look like its own franchise.

 

I've heard a lot of good things about TOR, mind, especially the story, but really, in relation to the KotOR games, this game is non-canon for me.

[Lynk Former]

I was kidding Sabre

 

That... and people who haven't actually played TOR get the setting wrong thinking it's, as you said, another epic war where the Jedi fight off the Sith. I've discovered through playing multiple characters that it's a hell of a lot more nuanced than that and that there's a lot more going on than meets the eye since there's a greater story being weaved through the multiple class storylines.

 

Also, what they may or may not have done to Revan in TOR isn't that bad as people try to make it out to be. I also have to point out that what The Old Republic has shown us at this point is only the beginning of the story that BioWare has planned. Again, while playing through multiple characters, I can see that there's more ahead very clearly and that things are going to be related back to KotOR.

 

As for aesthetics, there have been some changes since beta and since early access/release and even more changes coming in 1.2 and 1.3 onward which introduce more unique designs into the entire game. It seems pretty clear that at first they wanted to create a hook for regular Star Wars fans to hold onto with their design decisions but they're moving away from the more familiar designs into more unique ones now.

 

As for my judgement about TOR. I love the game as a Star Wars game but it's going to take a few years for me to decide how I feel about it in relation to where it fits into KotOR since I know there's still a lot of story left to explore with it. I want to see where it leads into the future before I make up my mind.

 

In the meantime, I've been having a hell of a lot of fun with all of the other LFN members here and we've gotten ourselves a nice guild started on both sides. Things are good all round with the game and our community interaction in the game.

[Rtas Vadum]

Also, what they may or may not have done to Revan in TOR isn't that bad as people try to make it out to be. I also have to point out that what The Old Republic has shown us at this point is only the beginning of the story that BioWare has planned. Again, while playing through multiple characters, I can see that there's more ahead very clearly and that things are going to be related back to KotOR.

 

Though it is their own character, I find the direction quite interesting. From a character that was lauded off as unique given the stance(which might just be my own wishful thinking for the character), that they would use any means to achieve their goal, and it doesn't matter what's thrown in their way. Even more, Revan was willing to chose the dark side, knowing the risks, but still willing to use it anyway. Which might be only a stance that Obsidian gave Revan, but It only made the character more interesting(namely since TSL went with any possibility the first ended with, where TOR just leaves the ending of the second in the dust, while assuming things abut the first[which are true, but only light-sided]).

 

Now, of course, it becomes wiped down to Revan never having embraced the dark side for any reason, always being the Jedi at heart, and worst of all, made a pawn for this mysterious Emperor, alongside being captured. Compound this with the Exile's fate, and I can't have much of a like for the game. Unless there is more to it than that, which I find hard to follow.

 

Not that I intend to bash it entirely, as the rest of the story/game might just be great. Though I don't think I would ever intend on buying a game that hinges on paying for both the game itself, and another 20$+ every month, never mind the need for internet access(might be a single-player mode, without needing it, but still...).

[Lynk Former]

Funny, I don't remember it happening that way when I played the Revan parts in TOR. Though I can see how a lot of people see how it would be like that.

 

There are many points in TOR where it's made clear that Revan did embrace both the light and dark side and while he is against the Emperor and the state of the Empire as it is, that doesn't mean he's always been a Jedi at heart. I certainly never got that impression from the information I got from the game.

[RevMg]

Funny, I don't remember it happening that way when I played the Revan parts in TOR. Though I can see how a lot of people see how it would be like that.

 

There are many points in TOR where it's made clear that Revan did embrace both the light and dark side and while he is against the Emperor and the state of the Empire as it is, that doesn't mean he's always been a Jedi at heart. I certainly never got that impression from the information I got from the game.

 

Oh, but the problem with TOR is that it lacks subtlety of KotOR2. This whole light and dark side is limited only to the fact he can use Force lighting. (The Forge is in fact more of a prove of his insanity than anything else).

 

Not to mention with TOR they made Revan the Emperor's victim. While before TOR Revan was the only one you could count responsible for what he had done, after TOR we learn that he was just mind-controlled. (Yea i know that part about getting free from the influence of the Emperor, but still his mind was altered, he did sth he did not believe in the first place).

 

So while KotOR2 gave us Revan, a character who lost faith in the Jedi Code after seeing the horrors of war, who was willing to do what he belived in what led him in the end to become a Sith Lord (out of arrogance we may add).

 

TOR gives us Revan who was always Jedi at heart. Only that his pure intentions were corrupted by the Emperor. For me it makes him less interesting, one dimensional character.

[Lynk Former]

I guess I must have played a different TOR then.

 

EDIT: And yes, there are two different versions of Revan's fates based on the Republic and Imperial flashpoints, this I know. The point I'm trying to make is that from what I saw, Revan hasn't become that one dimensional character people seem to claim. In fact, the game has gotten me interested in what will happen with him as more story content is released.

[RevMg]

I guess I must have played a different TOR then.

 

EDIT: And yes, there are two different versions of Revan's fates based on the Republic and Imperial flashpoints, this I know. The point I'm trying to make is that from what I saw, Revan hasn't become that one dimensional character people seem to claim. In fact, the game has gotten me interested in what will happen with him as more story content is released.

 

Then you must have played different game, bc the fate of Revan is the same regardless of which side you play. The point is, that first Republic frees him, then Imperials do their thing.

 

Out of curiosity, what was the thing that got you interested?

[Lynk Former]

Duh, I forgot about the chronological progression. My mistake, only played through the two Imp flashpoints once awhile back and the asshats I was playing with rushed through the entire thing.

 

As for the end of The Forge, we don't know his fate, but it seems pretty clear that he has more of a part to play in the future.

 

 

...and got me interested in what?

[mimartin]

I've played the same game as Lynk....

 

I liked Revan best in the smugglers story line so far, because she is largely nonexistent there. A few bones here and there, but about what you would expect from some ancient history. Of course I always felt Revan was a one dimensional character from the moment of the big twist in KOTOR. TSL made her slightly more interesting, but I found the Exile to be a way more interesting character than Revan. I would have been happier with TOR if BioWare would have left Revan out of the entire game, not because of what they did in TOR, because they ruined my playable character in KOTOR with the big twist.

[Shem]

KotOR is a 7 year old game that you can play through in 3 days. So why try to equate it?

I don't think you realize that KOTOR is going to be a 9-year-old game this summer! I saw a trailer for KOTOR 10 years ago.

[Hassat Hunter]

I rather have 3 days story than 1 month MMO-grind with the same amount of story thrown in.

 

I got tired real really fast of combat during the weekend demo. And that's just to lvl 15, starter levels and 4 days...

[Lynk Former]

That's why you play with your friends in an MMO.

[Prime]

It's also ridiculously hugging the original-trilogy aesthetically. For all its OT homages, KotOR maintained a distinct style that made it look like its own franchise.

Actually, to me it isn't nearly as much as it is made out to be. I don't think it is any more so than KOTOR and TSL were.

 

I don't think you realize that KOTOR is going to be a 9-year-old game this summer! I saw a trailer for KOTOR 10 years ago.

And it is still as awesome (and playable) as ever!

[DarthParametric]

Actually, to me it isn't nearly as much as it is made out to be. I don't think it is any more so than KOTOR and TSL were.

No, TOR is deliberately styled to look just like the Clone Wars for marketing purposes. K1 (and TSL) had some basic aesthetics that made it recognisable as Star Wars - lightsabers, droids, spaceships and FTL travel, aliens like Wookiees, Twi'leks, etc - but the art style was deliberately different to distinguish it from the movies. There were nods, but it was distinct enough to make it believable that it could be thousands of years before the movies. Of course K1 stepped over these bounds in one instance with the Yoda clone Vandar, and TSL did so by introducing a knock-off Star Destroyer that Nihilus took as his flagship, but those are pretty much the only examples that I can think of.

 

TOR, on the other hand, is nothing but a string of constant movie and cartoon knockoffs. I'm not sure who's decision that was, but I'm pretty sure LucasArts had a big say in the matter. The Republic troopers are dead ringers for prequel/Clone Wars cartoon Clone Troopers, the Agent pretty much has one of Padme's ships from TPM/AOTC, the Sith Empire uses the OT-era's Empire symbology and text/language (retconning that Palpatine ripped it off I gather), the Empire's capital ships are all OT-era Star Destroyer designs, the military on both sides use all manner of Prequel-esque equipment like the walkers the Clones use and the various droid designs of the Separatists, etc., etc.

 

The artistic styles are chalk and cheese. If you showed TOR and K1/TSL footage to someone who only knew the movies, I think it's very likely they'd peg TOR as something set in the movie timeline (likely a Clone Wars game) and K1/TSL as Star Wars, but not something they were familiar with.

[Lynk Former]

People make it sound like that they just copied and pasted the movies into TOR. Yes, they're using a lot of the elements from the movie, it's a smart move in terms of an MMO that's trying to attract a very wide variety of Star Wars fans who are among the hardcore like us and who are just the casual ones who recognise things from the movies they watch occasionally but aren't crazy into it like we are.

 

That said, I still feel like a lot of the designs with all of the assets stand on their own as well. I've spent hundreds of hours on the game so I can see which styles are influenced by the OT and PT/Clone Wars and which aren't and you start to see a nice mix happening as you go through the game.

 

Added to that, 1.2 is adding a hell of a lot of new designs to the mix and I've gotten to see a lot of them while playing through the Public Test Server, the designs are moving away from the OT/PT/CW designs people keep bitching about and we're about to get some pretty interesting gear coming our way.

 

From the looks of it, they're trying to draw in the masses with the OT/PT/CW style but are slowly moving into more unique territory as the game progresses its ongoing development.

[DarthParametric]

As I said, I suspect LA played a heavy role in the stylistic direction and there is no doubt it was done for marketing purposes. Maybe now that the launch is out of the way, the devs will have a little more freedom in some areas. I think it unlikely there will be a radical shift though. Troopers will continue to look like Clones, Bounty Hunters will continue to look like Boba/Jango Fett, etc.

[adamqd]

Yea, they need to strike a line down the middle, they had very Clone Wars heavy stuff pre-launch, now the new stuff for 1.2 is like something you'd see in 5,000 bby (Which I love of course being a TOTJ fan) But its too archaic for the setting and design style.

[Lynk Former]

Troopers will continue to look like Clones, Bounty Hunters will continue to look like Boba/Jango Fett, etc.

From the new 1.2 armour I've seen, no... they're veering away from that. I've seen quite a lot of varied styles popping up, familiar to the movies, familiar to KotOR and some that look like neither.

[Scorge]

Big deal.

 

Lol 3 minutes and 7 seconds he already done with the first module.

[Prime]

TOR, on the other hand, is nothing but a string of constant movie and cartoon knockoffs. I'm not sure who's decision that was, but I'm pretty sure LucasArts had a big say in the matter. The Republic troopers are dead ringers for prequel/Clone Wars cartoon Clone Troopers, the Agent pretty much has one of Padme's ships from TPM/AOTC, the Sith Empire uses the OT-era's Empire symbology and text/language (retconning that Palpatine ripped it off I gather), the Empire's capital ships are all OT-era Star Destroyer designs, the military on both sides use all manner of Prequel-esque equipment like the walkers the Clones use and the various droid designs of the Separatists, etc., etc.

As others have pointed out, it isn't as if everything is a carbon copy. Actually playing TOR doesn't in any way feel like I'm playing Clone Wars 2.0. For every ship or droid design that is somewhat similar, there are even more that are unique. KOTOR/TSL had this too. Playing myself I am struck by how little similarities there are to the PT, considering all the bitching that went on when the game was in development.

[Darth InSidious]

So far as I can see, the MMO is loosely linked to KotOR and TSL, and has carefully redesigned the past in both cases to fit how BioWare makes games nowadays.

[M@RS]

I've yet to play TOR. But I was disappointed with the timeline of the game in regards to the original games.