Thinkers Guild of Alderaan

[jonathan7]

Please post any resources etc here that you think are useful/interesting sites.

 

The site I most often visit myself on the internet is this one; http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/

 

[Achilles]

The creation/evolution debate at EvC Forum. Not your typical public forum. While everyone is encouraged to participate, a majority of the contributors (worth reading) are scientists or academics. The science forums are extremely rigorous (you can be suspended for failing to cite sources). Learning curve can be a tad steep, but fighting to keep up has tremendous benefit.

 

The sheer volume of information can be a bit intimidating. I generally try to encourage visitors to start out with The Post of the Month forum and branch out from there.

[EnderWiggin]

Thanks for the linky Achilles. I'll check this out.

 

_EW_

[Rev7]

Thanks for the invite jonathan!

[Litofsky]

Hey guys, I just wanted to bring this topic up. I've been in the process of questioning reality, and I wanted to share this with you all.

 

Looking logically at things, one realizes that the only mind they can prove exists is their own. At least, that is the conclusion I have come to.

 

Therefore, when we investigate the term "solipsism."

 

This thought brought me to the following: If I accept that reality is a figment of my imagination, where would I be in order to create this illusion? The Matrix came to mind.

* * *

What do you guys think?

[EnderWiggin]

Yeah, this is something that I've thought of before. Schrodinger's cat is what makes me think it.

 

As to where we'd be if we decided that reality was imaginary? Nowhere. Everywhere. I don't even have any reasonable guesses.

 

_EW_

[Litofsky]

Well, that's a really interesting thought, isn't it? If we recognize the fact that Reality is, entirely, our mind's perception/creation, do we have the ability to alter it to our wants?

[Rev7]

Well, I guess that solipsism is true to some extent. I don't personally believe in it, but only ourselves know if we exist.

 

Where would we be? I have no idea what-so-ever! I don't think that anyone could know the answer to that question!

[Litofsky]

That's what so interesting about it! Also, that is where the Matrix would come from, in my opinion. If we only know that we exist, and realize that we would have to be somewhere in order to project these thoughts. Hence, The Matrix.

[Rev7]

Well, I think that we all exist on planet Earth! But these are just my thoughts. It is interesting though, if you think about it rationally.

[Litofsky]

Well, I like to look at things through a logical standpoint, though that is difficult sometimes. My parents (don't get me wrong, I love them) have done a great job raising me with values, but have kept a strong emphasis on religion. Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you, only that they have completely blocked me from other views, which I resented deeply. It took me a while to get around that blockade, but I managed it, eventually.

 

Anyways, on the topic of logic, I enjoy looking at things through multiple viewpoints, finding the one that makes the most sense, and running with it.

[Totenkopf]

However, if solipsism is valid, wouldn't "the Matrix" just be another manifestation of our thoughts, anxieties? Even if this matrix actually existed, would we still not face the same crisis there that we do here, ie what is really real here?

[Jae Onasi]

Since we've been talking about eyes and Hubel and Wiesel in the love thread.... http://hubel.med.harvard.edu/index.html

 

Wiesel came to our college and gave a lecture when I was still a student. Great researcher, sucky lecturer.

[Emperor Devon]

Litofsky: solipism

 

As elementary as this question may sound, there's what evidence that supports that idea...?

 

Oh, forgot. You can't trust your senses, and subsequently any 'evidence' they might happen to encounter. It's impossible to know, silly me.

 

The whole concept is nonsensible - the world around is isn't real. All right, then what is? Obviously something has to be for you to claim it's false. There has to be some frame of reference you're operating from. (To claim that Y is false, you have to have an X that's true. What does false mean, after all? Something that's not true. Or a Y that's clearly not X.)

 

So where is this 'real' reality, exactly, that lies just beyond our peripheral vision? What? You have no idea where it is, or how to prove it? And you've got no idea what it even is to boot? Good gods... just what are you even trying to say to us all?!

 

Could it be that this 'real reality' you're trying to tell me about... this reality whose existence you can't disprove (while still making sense) actually is the one we're in? We could try using our five senses as the criterion to measure it by. If we can taste, touch, see, hear, and smell what's around us, why don't we go ahead and assume that it's 'real'?

 

I don't see what else we can measure it by. Whatever remains inconsistent with those senses we can label the illusion (ie a mirage you can see but not touch).

 

Point in case - *something* is real, whether you're a solipist or a materialist. But are you going to pick what we can measure and make sense of in our given context, or nonsense that's proven impossible to measure both empirically and logically?

 

(Note: I realize you've not advocated solipsism to the degree this message assumes you have, but I might as well go full-way when arguing against it.)

[EnderWiggin]

Perhaps the real reality is the eternal one that we reach if we get into 'heaven.' I think that satisfies both conditions. That gives us a spot to exist while in fact projecting our fake-real reality onto our real-real reality.

 

_EW_

 

@ED:

 

TBH, there's not evidence for about half the things we talk about in Kavar's. If we didn't speculate, we'd have nowhere near the level of discussion we do now.

[Litofsky]

Thanks for that response, Devon. Of course, there's nothing at all to support that conclusion. If there were, it wouldn't really be a topic here, would it?

 

I just wanted to know what everyone else thought, and why. You might apply this same debate to Heaven! Do we really know that Heaven exists? Is it a tangible place, or is it unique to every person?

 

I just thought that it was an interesting point, and so brought it up.

 

Just now, I noticed the picture from tk.

 

...

[Rev7]

Link

 

Comments? Concerns? Anything?

[jonathan7]

Very interesting conversation peeps

 

As for your link R7, I think its promising, but a long way to go methinks. I think fusion remains our best hope for green energy...

 

GB J7

[Litofsky]

If it were up to me, I would have America (as it is my home country) run off of solar power, wind power, and other renewable resources. In my opinion, it would create a bunch of domestic jobs, we'd be completely self-sufficient for energy, and we'd be able to sell surplus energy to other countries.*

 

Bye-bye, deficit!

 

*= I do not doubt, however, that this would be extremely difficult.

[EnderWiggin]

Litofsky - your post screams "Easier said than done"

 

_EW_

[Jae Onasi]

That's quite the take on 'Le Penseur', tk.

 

I heard on WGN this am that a block of the shareholders of Exxon (apparently including a lot of the Rockefellers) are upset with the company because they haven't been spending enough on alternative sources for fuel. I never thought I'd see a situation where shareholders thought the company was making too _much_ money.

[Litofsky]

Bureaucracy's a turd-maggot (that's acceptable, isn't it, Jae?), isn't it?

 

Alternative sources of fuel seem imminent, but no one is doing enough. The oil will run out, and when it does... *Gulp*

[Totenkopf]

I think you mean they were griping that the _kept_ to much money, Jae.

[Ray Jones]

Solar, wind and tidal power plants are a treat to our climate as well!

[Litofsky]

Not to mention that they won't run out in our lifetime (unless the Sun mysteriously disappears. Of course, if that happened, we'd have many more problems to worry about)!