Unpopular opinions

[Lagomorph01]

22 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

Was there a great dialogue-based puzzle in Grim Fandango? Little things like convincing Glottis to be your driver come to mind, but I don't recall a moment of major dialogue challenge.

 

Getting the Metal Detector from Carla would qualify as a dialogue puzzle! It’s also pretty hilarious!

[BaronGrackle]

1 minute ago, Lagomorph01 said:

Getting the Metal Detector from Carla would qualify as a dialogue puzzle! It’s also pretty hilarious!

Yeah, similar to ending "A Pirate I Was Meant To Be". In both of those you can end things early, but it's more fun to drag it out until the correct option is the only one left!

[ThunderPeel2001]

3 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

I wish some of Secret of Monkey Island's contemporaries had gotten modern rerelease treatment. Add a sucker punch option, and Last Crusade is good to go!

 

I'm convinced that all Last Crusade would need is MI's improved interface, better dialogue hint clues (and maybe an easier fight system/sucker punch option) and it would be far better regarded. It's fun!

[BillyCheers]

This may not be a unpopular opinion per se, but this is where this thought fits in the best, I think:

 

Monkey Island fans are some of the luckiest in the world!

 

Why? We have two great games as a base, three really good sequels that are fun and never really boring (you can argue about the story here and there). If you compare that to other game series where there are really bad sequels in between, we've been pretty lucky, I think. And now (TODAY!) we get a sequel from the actual creator, which will reveal the two biggest mysteries of the series.

 

But wait, there's more!

In all games we have solid to fantastic artwork, the same main composer with great working partners by his side, great voice acting without replacing the main character etc.

And all this over a period of more than 30 years, with no oversaturation (so far), so that every new game was/is an event. Not to mention this great community here!

 

All of this brings me to the conclusion: Yes, we Monkey Island fans are pretty lucky!

[miraculous.0]

Oh boy, I got a few bad takes.

 

1. I actually love EMI and I think the 3D art is perfect as an adaptation of CMI's art style. Monkey Kombat just felt like the games insult sword fighting and I don't mind it.

 

2. I could never really get into LOOM. I've tried multiple times but just never get invested. Especially weird because I make music, so you'd think I'd love the music system.

 

3. I think the world of Monkey Island shouldn't be real. Love me some goofy pirate fun but I think having that somewhat sinister and emotional layer on top makes the world far more interesting.

 

4. Tales might be my least favorite in the series. I think episodes 4 and 5 are absolutely fantastic but the first few feel like a slog. Also, I REALLY don't like the art style. I understand that TT had a deadline and a budget but I find the character designs to just be really unappealing and I think EMI did a better job of translating the CMI style to 3D.

[Udvarnoky]

Replaying Grim Fandango in order to do my part in beta-testing DREAMM was an interesting experience. I loved it, and I remain as convinced as ever that the game is such an amazing achievement in the overall that its issues can’t do it fatal damage. But I’ve never appreciated just how major those issues are.

The Petrified Forest stood out to me. It’s not a huge segment in the grand scheme of things, but it makes time stop. It’s a fairly uninteresting location in such a cool world, and the puzzles are of a sort you would expect from a more routine adventure game.

I have similar complaints about Year 3 – the machinery puzzles that populate it are such a drag. Figuring out anchor controls, reversing conveyer belts, unfurling chains, operating cranes, aligning tumblers…isn’t this the kind of thing we turn to LucasArts in retreat from? If the Petrified Forest is worse, it’s due to its placement. From a pacing standpoint, it’s exactly the wrong time for padding. If there were a Casual Mode, it would be a no-brainer excision. I wonder how many players gave up on this game because they were manipulating a fucking wheelbarrow over hoses in order to reason through some dumb timing puzzle, when the game’s best stuff was right on the other side of it? Not even worth thinking about.

I’m actually in the minority on the tank controls. They are undeniably clunkier than point ‘n click, but the “drive the character” conceit is a tradeoff in order for the game to fully exploit the cinematic possibilities of its explicitly film-inspired 3D world. It’s a little creaky, but more or less justifies itself. But it’s one component of a bigger agenda of Grim’s presentation: getting rid of UI altogether to maximize immersion*. Tim’s vision of that is a noble one, but I think an aesthetic choice that comes at the expense of gameplay clarity is a liability.

Using Manny’s head as a purely visual substitute for traditional hotspotting is an elegant solution, but it’s imperfect in practice. It’s way too easy to misapprehend what Manny is looking at, which can lead to you thinking you’ve ruled something out when you haven’t. The issue is exacerbated when you have a puzzle that requires you to “use” what Manny is holding by itself (like biting the mouthpiece). He needs to otherwise be looking at nothing, which isn’t always obvious. It’s exactly the sort of ambiguity that I imagine some design dictum would contend must be avoided at all costs. I understand why EMI restored the sentence line even if it made things more “cluttered.” If the player thought they tried to spike Naranja’s drink but were actually interacting with the tattoo book, and Manny’s “I can’t do that” response was too generic to have alerted them to the mistake, and they only found out what the disconnect was after looking up the solution in frustration, that’s an F minus.

I’ve never understood the people who would argue that Grim Fandango is a great movie trapped in the structure of an adventure game. It’s a wonderful fit as an adventure game. I just wish it had been a more merciful one. It’s sort of amazing to look back on, because everything about the game’s presentation represents this big, forward-facing gambit to take the genre to a new frontier – we can make graphic adventures competitive in the AAA arena! –  and yet it didn’t occur to anybody that, while they were boldly jettisoning so many old standbys in their embrace of their shiny, ILM-abetted new engine, that like, maybe forklift puzzles are just as expendable as a visible cursor? From today’s vantage point especially, it’s so clear where they could have taken it easy without really betraying the essence or scale of the experience. So many more people should have gotten to visit this world and meet these characters. Why we gotta dare them not to with Myst puzzles?

Anyway: Happy 25^th, Grim!

*Ironically, the Remaster kind of destroys this, at least on the Switch. Those gigantic overlays the screen gets slapped with when the game is auto-saving – including during in-engine cinematics – are hilariously disruptive.

[ThunderPeel2001]

12 hours ago, Udvarnoky said:

The Petrified Forest stood out to me. It’s not a huge segment in the grand scheme of things, but it makes time stop. It’s a fairly uninteresting location in such a cool world, and the puzzles are of a sort you would expect from a more routine adventure game.

 

Yes! So true. It's somewhat ironic because Tim has shared a story about how the producer on the game tried to force him to cut that part. She said there's wasn't any money for it, but Tim got the art team to start producing it without her knowledge and by then it was too late. (Something along those lines.) It's ironic because it just stops the story dead... the puzzles aren't great and personally I hate having to deal with the fire beavers (having to wait for them to trundle into the right position...!).

 

I LOVE Grim Fandango. LOVE LOVE LOVE. For me it's probably the pinnacle of LucasArts's adventure games, but I can't help but feel the game would be better without that section. Rubacava is so much more enjoyable (well, it's the best section of the game to be honest).

 

12 hours ago, Udvarnoky said:

I have similar complaints about Year 3 – the machinery puzzles that populate it are such a drag. Figuring out anchor controls, reversing conveyer belts, unfurling chains, operating cranes, aligning tumblers…isn’t this the kind of thing we turn to LucasArts in retreat from? If the Petrified Forest is worse, it’s due to its placement. From a pacing standpoint, it’s exactly the wrong time for padding. If there were a Casual Mode, it would be a no-brainer excision. I wonder how many players gave up on this game because they were manipulating a fucking wheelbarrow over hoses in order to reason through some dumb timing puzzle, when the game’s best stuff was right on the other side of it? Not even worth thinking about.

 

Again, I 100% agree.

 

12 hours ago, Udvarnoky said:

I’m actually in the minority on the tank controls. They are undeniably clunkier than point ‘n click, but the “drive the character” conceit is a tradeoff in order for the game to fully exploit the cinematic possibilities of its explicitly film-inspired 3D world. It’s a little creaky, but more or less justifies itself. But it’s one component of a bigger agenda of Grim’s presentation: getting rid of UI altogether to maximize immersion*. Tim’s vision of that is a noble one, but I think an aesthetic choice that comes at the expense of gameplay clarity is a liability.

Using Manny’s head as a purely visual substitute for traditional hotspotting is an elegant solution, but it’s imperfect in practice.

 

Yep, I'm with you on this one, too. The original game used "." to switch Manny's head between objects (a feature that was left out of the Remaster for some weird reason) but although I think you're right, I've never found it too much of an issue because the world isn't too cluttered -- and I just used "." when it was. I've always found it pretty clear what Manny is looking at despite the shortcomings of the system.

 

And really, re: the tank controls, they never bothered me either. They worked fine... that is, until I played the Remaster. The new controls are such a wonderful improvement that it's very hard to go back. They keep the 3D immersion while making them far more intuitive. (Playing through with Tank Controls is the one achievement I'll never get on the Remaster -- sorry, Tim!) 

 

12 hours ago, Udvarnoky said:

From today’s vantage point especially, it’s so clear where they could have taken it easy without really betraying the essence or scale of the experience. So many more people should have gotten to visit this world and meet these characters. Why we gotta dare them not to with Myst puzzles?

 

They were forging new territory! Some great advances were made, and some mistakes, too. Alas.

 

12 hours ago, Udvarnoky said:

*Ironically, the Remaster kind of destroys this, at least on the Switch. Those gigantic overlays the screen gets slapped with when the game is auto-saving – including during in-engine cinematics – are hilariously disruptive.

 

There's a few things that the Remaster missteps on (to anyone who hasn't played it: they're very minor, don't let them put you off -- the Remaster is great!). As someone who loves the game so much, it's a bit painful at times. I did my best on the forums to get them to fix the niggles, but my comments seemed largely met with bewilderment. (Felt like: "Why would anyone care about the game so much??") Or maybe they were just exhausted.

 

Tim didn't do me any favours by promising that Grim Fandango Remastered would be a "Criterion Edition" of the game.

 

(Aside: For those who don't know, Criterion try to release the "perfect" version of a film for movie lovers. They invented the audio commentary, make loads of unique content and documentaries, but more importantly than all that: They make sure the presentation of the film is absolutely flawless. They re-scan the negatives themselves and bring in the original Director of Photography and Director to work with them ensuring the colour timing is perfect. They really go to the nth degree so you can trust that what they release is absolutely the best presentation of the film possible, and they rarely (if ever) get it wrong.)

 

Tim talked specifically about how tiny details would be addressed by the original team in the Remaster, something only Double Fine could do. He mentioned the tiny symbol on Velaco's cap (I think, it's been a while) as an example of something only his team would know what the original intention was. Obviously as a fan I gobbled all that up, but really it was what Tim had to say to get Sony to trust them with the IP.

 

Of course, there's SO many things they got right: The controls, the updated music, the new lighting, the reduced compression on the videos... The fact that it exists at all. The Remaster IS wonderful. 

 

But there's still things that still irk, if you're wanting the "Criterion" edition. Here's a list of tiny quibbles off the top of my head (for anyone who cares -- most of this list won't bother a new player):

 

• For a game as big and sprawling as GF, you need a ton of saves if you want to go back and try different things out. (And we adventure fans often like doing that.) Unfortunately there was a limitation with the save space on the PS4, so they had to limit the number of saves on that platform to 8 slots... and Sony (of course) wouldn't allow any other version of the game to be "better" than the PS4 one, so that limit was artificially imposed on the PC version, too. One of the very rare times that the original (which had no limitation) was better.
   
• There's still quite a few shadow glitches and bugs in the controls in various places (but especially Year 3). And the animations that loop in the backgrounds of various scenes don't animate properly throughout the entire game. They're missing a few frames, so they don't animate their loop smoothly. 
   
• Very minor: but some of the game textures weren't improved at all. (Most of the time you can't tell, but there's a few times when the game can still look uglier than it should -- like the ticket printing machine, etc.)
   
• Some sound files don't play properly or cut out (eg. the Cat Race announcer in Year 2 stops talking randomly, losing some of the funny dialogue, clues to solves puzzles, and atmosphere).
   
• The new scene that animates the poetry recital was very cool. A lovely little treat for fans. But I wish they'd fixed the hole in the base of Olivia's skull that allows you to see the other side of her head as the camera moves past. (Again, very minor.)
   
• How about this for a nit pick: The original game manual made it clear you're supposed to use the Num Pad to play the game, and it works really well. They used all the buttons around the that number pad keys to do everything you need... in the Remastered, they dropped this functionality.
   
• Possibly the worst thing was how the wonderful transition at the end of the game was altered. It's probably the only other moment where the original is better. A very odd choice.
   
• Oh, and they never fixed the "Gold Flakes" typo on the PS4...

 

Boy, oh boy. The Golo Flakes debacle...

 

Sucks if you're a first time player and a clue like that has been removed due to a typo. That really irritated me. And I can't see how Shafer, Tsacle or Chan could not care about it, either. Manny picks up a bottle of liqueur that contains metal flakes... an important clue for a tricky puzzle later in the game. But instead of letting the player know there's metal in the bottle, the Remaster tells them it's filled with flakes of "golo" instead of "gold".

 

Imagine a Criterion edition of Casablanca... "Play it again... Pam".

 

I knew the team were probably overwhelmed, so I even made them a replacement PNG to drop in, just to make it as easy as possible for them to fix (exact right dimensions and size and everything -- all they had to do was replace a single asset), but the response from the Remaster team on the DF forums was baffling. It was like, "really? who cares about that??".

 

They even took the time to put a bottle of "Golo Flakes" in Day of the Tentacle Remastered. (And had plans to put one in Full Throttle Remastered, too, but it was nixed by someone before release.)

 

Still, as a I say, these are all minor quibbles from a die hard (how much of a die hard? I had started my own Remaster project before DF announced theirs and they gracious thanked me in the Remaster credits, although I certainly didn't deserve it). 

 

Again, anyone who hasn't played GF before: The Remastered is still the best way, don't let these little moans put you off. And I remain grateful to DF for making it happen at all!

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by ThunderPeel2001

[Groggoccino]

For me, one of the biggest oversights in Grim Fandango Remastered (on PC at least) is that the game has no frame rate cap of any kind, and no option to enable vsync. As a result of this, the video card will render as many frames as possible all the time, which basically means it will be working at full capacity (higher temperatures, more noise) for no benefit whatsoever. If you want to avoid this, make sure to force vsync in your video card's control panel before playing.