CaptainRAVE Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 Before you VOTE in the poll read....I didnt make it very clear. Yay if you support the crack down on the Warez sites and Nay if you think they should be removed....Sorry Reuters is reporting that agents of the US Customs Service and the British National Hi-Tech Crime Unit carried out dozens of raids on Tuesday & Wednesday in a dramatic crackdown on traffickers of so called "warez". The daring busts were carried out simultaneously with similar raids in Australia, Finland and Norway. In total 37 warrants were executed in the US alone against alleged software pirates. The U.S. Customs Service has said that the crackdown on warez sites illegally trading software has just begun, and many other sites both within and outside the U.S. will be raided in the next days. "This is only the first step," a spokesman for the department said. "The investigation is ongoing." As many as 15 other countries are considering taking part in the crackdown. The crackdown has been criticized for focusing on kids trading games, and not people selling software for a profit. "Throwing the book at these guys is the wrong thing to do," said a security expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 YAY! finally. i sick of me being the only one doing the right thing in my school which is buying the game. everyone else buys copies or download warez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raVen_image Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 Being thick-headed, I think I misinterpretted your poll. It said "warez sites: yay or nay" I voted "nay", meaning that I am against them. I applaud any crack-down that shuts these sites down, perminently. But now, I think you were asking: "Crackdown on warez: yay or nay" So my answer(which can't be changed) is wrong ...sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardz Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 Does anyone ever read something quickly and not read it correctly? I just saw "warez targeted" and thought it said "wardz targeted." I thought MI5 might be after me for links with terror networks or something. hehe, PHEW! warez, i mean wardz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRAVE Posted December 13, 2001 Author Share Posted December 13, 2001 I can see how you would think that, even though i didnt.....lol......that was actually really funny. You should be a comedian Wardz/warez. Maybe you are being targated by the official annoyingly large sig alliance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 Is it voting for YAY i like warez... or YAY Get rid of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRAVE Posted December 13, 2001 Author Share Posted December 13, 2001 Sorry....I didnt make myself very clear and should have said........Vote Yay if you are agreeing they should go......and vote Nay if you think they should stay......sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Simpson Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 I can't believe how long it took them to actually do this. Warez has been around for years, and it's been allowed to rise and grow to where it is today. I think it's definitely a good thing that these guys get shut down as soon as possible. Not only are they breaking the law, they are ruining the business of a lot of gaming companies, who have to compensate for the enormous losses. Bah! IMO, the people who download warez are just as bad as those who spread it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi Kwan Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 I am glad that people are crakcing down on crackers and software pirates, but I agree that the focus should be on those who crack for profit. It is much to easy to get illegal software these days; im sure that many of you are running illegal versions of windows or games or whatever. Who doesnt have programs like Photoshop or NESticle on their computer? THe problem is that when people pirate programs, they not only crack em for themselves but for the millions of others who dont even know how to go about doing such a thing, myself included! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 if this is true look for better quality games due to bigger budgets in the future, hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 Oh YAY, oh YAY, oh YAY! Shut them down! All of them. I too am sickened by the proliferation of warez sites across the net. I do believe that shutting them down will have a positive impact in stabilising the gaming industry, as well as the general software industry. At the moment we often pay a premium because there are less units sold than there should be, and the developers/publishers have to find some way of getting a decent return on their investment. Having said that, I suspect warez is also responsible for many games becoming budget titles quite quickly. I've just snapped up a copy of Serious Sam for £8...when not so long ago it was 3 times the price. While this might be good for my wallet, I can't help thinking that they are having to try and simply shift X amount of units at a cut price to bump up their return because they did not sell enough units as a result of too many people downloading the illegal warez version. I know this is probably not the only cause for this faster turnaround of full titles to budget titles, however. There is a lot of strong competition, and a lot more choice than in the past, so obviously developers are trying to maximise market-share to lessen their financial burdens. I have to admit I haven't bought Undying yet (though I plan to), because a few other titles appeared that I really wanted first. This is probably one of the factors that hurt the sales of that (apparently great) game. Nevertheless, warez has a great deal to answer for, and it has gone on for far too long. I do belive that shutting down warez sites will lead to more developers remaining solvent, and being able to produce the quality games we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReAcToR Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 I've never been able to understand why most of the people who are against warez, download mp3's. You're worried about people pirating/cracking software/games yet I guarantee 90% of the people above who are against warez download mp3's for free, from programs that will eventually be deemed illegal in the United States. There's a thin line between legal and illegal when you're dealing with downloading things online and I would say that 90% of the people above are being hypocritical, no offense. I myself download mp3's and warez and am not ashamed to admit it. I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollars for a program when I can download it for free. If I had the money, I would definitely pay for whatever I could. I'm against stealing things in real life, but the internet and real life are two seperate things that shouldn't be confused with one another. If you don't physically steal it, I say there's nothing wrong with that. The internet should be free of over-regulation in my opinion. Less than 5% of the United States population actually own computers and that's not a large enough percentage for harsh regulations/penalties. People are going to download mp3's, people are going to download warez and people are going to rob banks. It's inevitable. Thinking that a crackdown on warez or on anything else is going to prevent others from doing it, is simply naive. How I feel about warez is irrelevant. We shouldn't support idiotic ideas like warez crackdowns and drug wars. The only thing that does is raise taxes. I don't know about you folks, but I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my pocket and don't need to be overtaxed when I can barely pay my bills as it is. You folks can support whatever crackdown you want, but hopefully you're not naive enough to think that it's actually going to help anything. It's simply going to throw non-violent criminals in prison, fine them out the rear and the price of your software/games will continue to go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 does this mean i gotta take off those super star wars, super empire strikes back, and super return of the jedi roms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 I say take 'em down. The Pirates are taking away money from the companies who have the RIGHTS to the game. If you MADE the game you should get the money for the game...unless you sold the rights or some other complication like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 the thing is, those games are almost abandonedware...they don't sell 'em in stores anymore...i might as well take them down...and put up my new level Massacre at Sulon!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 Originally posted by ReAcToR I've never been able to understand why most of the people who are against warez, download mp3's. You're worried about people pirating/cracking software/games yet I guarantee 90% of the people above who are against warez download mp3's for free, from programs that will eventually be deemed illegal in the United States. The only mp3's I have on my hard disk are some free samples off cover disks on a few magazines. I admit I hooked up on Napster once to find a couple of tracks I like on some of my old vinyl LPs (my record deck was busted)...but I didn't feel comfortable with it, so I stopped, and deleted the couple of files I downloaded. So yes, I agree that many people may have done it...but that doesn't make it right, nor does it guarantee that the majority of people posting here still do it. Maybe you should do a poll on the subject just to find out. [QOUTE]There's a thin line between legal and illegal when you're dealing with downloading things online and I would say that 90% of the people above are being hypocritical, no offense. I wholeheartedly disagree with you. If stuff is posted legally on the net for download, like shareware demos, public domain stuff, and FREE mp3 tracks, then there is no problem with that. If, however, you are talking about commercial products being available without consent, then of course that is illegal. There is no fine line...it is an obvious and arrogant breach of the law. I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollars for a program when I can download it for free. If I had the money, I would definitely pay for whatever I could. Perhaps you wouldn't have to spend hundreds of dollars on software if the developers/publishers knew their software was not going to be pirated, and that they would lose an enormous amount of money due to warez. They have to make a profit to survive...but if they know millions of people are going to obtain their product illegally, they cannot sell as many units as they may wish. So they sell less units at a higher price. There are many programs and games I would really like, but yes, they are expensive, and I'm also not one of these lucky people who attract cash like magnets. I'm on a low wage for the work I actually do, and I support a wife, two kids, and a dog, pay a mortgage on my house, pay all of the bills, and at the end of each month I don't exactly have much money left to spend on the things I want. However, I don't use that as an excuse to steal. No matter how you look at it, something that is warez is something that has been stolen, because the developer/publisher does not see a financial return on their creation. If nothing else, it flies in the face of copyright and licensing laws...which alone makes it illegal. I'm against stealing things in real life, but the internet and real life are two seperate things that shouldn't be confused with one another. Again, I wholeheartedly disagree. The internet is simply another form of communication and distribution for materials and products. It is part of the real world, and should be subject to the same laws and constraints that we practice anywhere else. If you don't physically steal it, I say there's nothing wrong with that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but receiving stolen goods is a criminal offence...at least in the UK. It doesn't matter who originally stole it...if you receive it in the knowledge that it was stolen, then you are a guilty party, and subject to criminal proceedings. So there is sopmething wrong with it...it's against the law. The internet should be free of over-regulation in my opinion. Yes, I agree that the internet should not be tied up with so much red tape that it is unworkable. However, I do believe in the need for some kind of regulation. Less than 5% of the United States population actually own computers and that's not a large enough percentage for harsh regulations/penalties. Hmmm....5% of 250 million...that's 12.5 million households. Going by your model of 90% of people having obtained stuff illegally (with which I disagree, BTW), that would mean over 10 million people are guilty of illegal activities. And you don't think they should be subject to regulations or penalties? I have to disagree again. People are going to download mp3's, people are going to download warez and people are going to rob banks. It's inevitable. Hmmm...if it's inevitable, then banks might as well just dump all of the money on the street and close down, because they know there is a high probability of them being robbed. The same rule would apply to the software industry...they might as well just give everything away...and the employees should work for nothing...and as a society we should all help each other out, and there's no need for money. No. Just because someone, somewhere intends to conduct an illegal activity like robbing a bank, does not mean they should not protect our money. So, the same rules apply elsewhere...the software industry should protect it's interests, and the music industry should take action against illegal distribution of music. We live in a society governed by rules and regulations, and those rules were put in place to protect the population as a whole. Without those rules, there would be anarchy...which always leads to survival of the fittest. I don't think we want to go there. Thinking that a crackdown on warez or on anything else is going to prevent others from doing it, is simply naive. No, doing nothing about it would be naive, because by doing nothing you are giving out the message to people that it is okay to steal. You are relaxing morality, and that governs our lives as much as anything else. So they may start off with warez...but if they are not subject to penalties, then they could move on to stealing other physical things, and it's potentially a short move up to robbing banks. By not enforcing the rules, you effectively make the rules worthless, and you become wholly reliant on the moral strength of the individual. Unfortunately, as this whole issue indicates, there are many people who are morally weak, and cannot practice self restraint. We shouldn't support idiotic ideas like warez crackdowns and drug wars. The only thing that does is raise taxes. If you don't crack down on illegal activity, then you might as well open the door of your house and invite everyone in, and tell them to take what they wish because it does not matter. You'll still be left with nothing. Paying for the aftermath of crime is likely to raise taxes far more than taking action to prevent crime in the first place. I don't know about you folks, but I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my pocket and don't need to be overtaxed when I can barely pay my bills as it is. See above. You folks can support whatever crackdown you want, but hopefully you're not naive enough to think that it's actually going to help anything. It's simply going to throw non-violent criminals in prison, fine them out the rear and the price of your software/games will continue to go up. Call me naive then, because I do think it will make a difference. I'm not saying it will lead to a reduction in the price of software...because combatting warez is a bit like the war against terrorism...it's going to take a very long time, and it is widespread. But that is not the point of this crackdown. The point is that warez is illegal, it infringes other people's rights, and it is plain wrong. That is why action must be taken...not to give us games at a lower cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornSoul Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 There is no use in combating warez in one country alone. There will always be countries that just don't care what people put on servers. If you look for websites with warez on them a lot of times you'll end up on a Polish or one of the former Soviet Union countries. Actually if I'm not mistaken the US doesn't even have that many warez users compared to countries like Korea or The Netherlands. I remember reading an article that 9 out of 10 computers in Korea have warez on them. I don't really see a problem for gaming companies when it comes to warez though. At least not if the game is played in MP alot. All you have to do is make sure only 1 of each CD key can play online at any time. If it happens too ofter that 2 or more people with the same CD key try to play online at the same time, you ban the CD key. The same goes for software that need a lot of updating, like anti-virus programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue15 Posted December 14, 2001 Share Posted December 14, 2001 aight you've gone and done it now. *burns mots for his best friend for christmas* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRAVE Posted December 14, 2001 Author Share Posted December 14, 2001 Although the U.S. Customs Service made the DoD (Drink or Die) warez traders out to be big-time criminals, calling them "the oldest and most well known" piracy group around, many are baffled, because DoD was just a small-time operation. "A search...reveals there were 40,865 Warez releases in the last seven months, of which only 411 were by DoD," a poster wrote. "Even if DoD is knocked out...every application and every game will still be cracked and distributed within 48 hours." DoD gained worldwide fame by cracking and distributing Windows 95 before it was publicly released, and had quite a lot of influence in the mid-90s. But since then, they have faded. "Only peasants get caught," one trader wrote disdainfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactorz Posted December 15, 2001 Share Posted December 15, 2001 It certainly is interesting to hear about. I posted my thoughts about this over at http://www.isonews.com for anyone that's interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRAVE Posted December 17, 2001 Author Share Posted December 17, 2001 The Linux community is hoping that a crackdown on pirated software will help open source software such as Linux to find a home in more business and homes across the world. Companies could save a great deal of money by using open source software as opposed to offerings from Microsoft according to supporters. As the cost of Windows operating systems is increasing more people may find open source to be a better option. It is believed that Microsoft has reached a saturation point in sales and that they will now seek to increase costs for the customer and creating more licensing restrictions to end users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Lando Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 I am against warez though my stance on it is somewhat hypocritical. I download a lot of techno that is not in production (records that aren't in print anymore so I couldn't buy them anyway). Also I download mixed dj sets. Like from Essential Mix which is broadcast in the UK but I live in the US. They do not sell Essential Mix cd's so I download the mp3. Does that make me a crook for stealing? I am sure some lawyers could make me out to be one somehow but the fact remains it isn't in the stores to buy to begin with. I have downloaded programs as a "try before you buy" philosophy. Some companies are crazy if they think i am just going to go out to a store and frop $50-100 for some software they won't release as a demo or shareware first. Especially since most companies release unfinished products riddled with bugs. I see that as a type of warez against the consumer yet you won't see the government cracking down on companies charging full price for unfinished programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 downloading mp3's isn't warez..its the equivalent of taping songs off the radio..giving it to others and having them take it as well...just on a larger scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdcfanbill Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 well, its not the equivalent, but it is somewhat similar, if you trade mp3s taped from radio, then its ok, but ifyou get a ripped copy, its illegal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 Originally posted by Darth_Lando I download a lot of techno that is not in production (records that aren't in print anymore so I couldn't buy them anyway). Also I download mixed dj sets. Like from Essential Mix which is broadcast in the UK but I live in the US. They do not sell Essential Mix cd's so I download the mp3. Does that make me a crook for stealing? I agree that out-of-print stuff is a problem. I usually try to get older stuff at Record Fairs (second-hand), but it's not always possible to find what you're really looking for. As for stuff that is released abroad, sometimes you can find an outlet that will ship outside of that country. I know it may cost a lot more due to taxes, though, which is a problem when you have a finite budget. That's why I think it is a good idea to sell music across the net...but it must be regulated by someone, or the original artists are going to lose out. I do think it's a bit extortionate when you go and buy a CD, and it costs you over £15. There really is no need for such high costs any more, when the raw materials are so cheap. The record publishers are just taking huge slices of profits, and that's not fair. I'd like to see more music artists trading directly over the net, to keep the costs for the end consumer down, while ensuring they get most of the financial return for their music. I have downloaded programs as a "try before you buy" philosophy. Some companies are crazy if they think i am just going to go out to a store and frop $50-100 for some software they won't release as a demo or shareware first. Especially since most companies release unfinished products riddled with bugs. I see that as a type of warez against the consumer yet you won't see the government cracking down on companies charging full price for unfinished programs. Again, I agree that it is a problem. I don't think any software should be sold without a demo being released first. If the games industry can do it, why can't most of the software industry? It seems to me that the more a piece of software costs, the less likely you are to see a demo. I have to say that a lot of the software I own I didn't actually purchase, per se...I got it off PC magazine cover CD's. PC Plus magazine is very good for supplying free (older versions) of software, which would normally cost literally thousands. PC Format was another mag that used to offer a lot of really good free software (that was how I got CorelDraw 3, Painter 3, Truespace 2, Paintshop Pro 4). I also have Bryce 2, Poser 1, Xres 2, Star Office 5.1 (an MS Office wannabe), Lotus Smartsuite, and too many others to mention. These are proper, full versions of software that you can register in the normal way...and if you want the more current version of the software, you can just get the upgrade, which is usually a lot cheaper. I upgraded to CorelDraw 6 and PSP 5, for example, and it was a lot cheaper than if I had bought those programs outright. I'm always on the lookout for other bargains on cover CDs. So there are other ways of getting at least some of the software you want without it costing the earth...you just need a little patience and a very sharp eye. As for taping stuff off the radio...well, I seem to recall reading somewhere that in the UK it is technically against copyright law. I know that everyone does it (I have done that in the past myself), and most hi-fi/portable radio/cassette players allow you to do it. Yet in the UK (at least), it is not really lawful to do so. However, they would find it horrendously hard to prosecute everyone...so they go for those who try and distribute copies for money, i.e., pirates. I know that copyright law in the UK has been really tightened up, especially recently with the introduction of newer legislation. Did you know, for example, that it is technically against copyright law in the UK to photocopy anything unless you obtain written permission to do so. This is an example of a law becoming totally ridiculous, IMO. Are teachers supposed to obtain permission for every article/excerpt they photocopy for their class, for example? Such is the stupidity of over-regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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