Spider AL Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Originally posted by Smood: It is not a matter that they cannot physically do something, its the principle that they do not. Originally posted by Smood: But JEDI NO. THEY CAN PHYSICALLY USE WEAPONS but they do not by choice!!! You've never seen ESB, have you. Nor did Prime's post, or mine, register on your conciousness. Ergh. For the last time, The Original Trilogy contains the only examples we need of how Jedi use the right weapon at the right time, to get the job done. Try reading through again, sound out the syllables this time. And frankly the most hilarious thing about you is your continuous delusion that you're qualified to interpret the Star Wars canon to the rest of us. You're not. Originally posted by Smood: to say intelligent 'JEDI' are ones who use guns and sabers is stupid! I fear that only you can lay claim to having posted wodges of incomprehensible guff that all qualify as "stupid". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graigsmith Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 who cares about single player? single player games suck. i bought Jedi knight 2 for 2 reasons. it had multiplayer, and i heard it was fun. it was fun, till raven patched the fun right out of the game. now its just stupid and pointless, i actually uninstalled the game from my pc. and raven now gets on my black-list of do not buy games from, along with nihillistic for making such a buggy vampire the masquerade game. if theres a sequel to this game i likely wont buy it cause it will suck. if lucas arts / raven diddn't care to make the multiplayer good in the first place, then i don't wanna try another one of their games. however if a jedi multiplayer ONLY game comes out, i might try that, if i hear its fun and bug free and balanced.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Excuse me for breaking the discussion, but I have to ask, why does this thread really exist? Is it a debate or are you people actually really hoping to get what you want by some of the developers looking at your posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Originally posted by graigsmith: who cares about single player? single player games suck. i bought Jedi knight 2 for 2 reasons. it had multiplayer, and i heard it was fun. Ohh, "SP games sux0rz!!11" do they? Well you're welcome to your opinion. You should be aware however that an awful lot of people, games-buying people, still purchase titles for their single-player capabilities, even more so with Star Wars titles. So really, your opinion is much too personal to you to be at all objective, and games developers will continue to make Single Player titles simply because the market's there. Originally posted by graigsmith: if theres a sequel to this game i likely wont buy it cause it will suck. And I'm glad to see you're keeping an open mind. Originally posted by BlackDove: Excuse me for breaking the discussion, but I have to ask, why does this thread really exist? Is it a debate or are you people actually really hoping to get what you want by some of the developers looking at your posts? Perhaps some people think so, but they have reason. Raven listened to a vocal minority and created 1.03, the satan of patches. Why shouldn't it work again? Smood seems to think it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Look at Team Fortress Classic. Crappy crappy graphics, yet it is very very well known and fun. JK needs a class-based STRATEGIC and balanced game. Right now, any player can do anything, so he can go rambo...forget the team. In TFC, at least it does take teamwork. There needs to be classes. Jedi/Sith (pure saber and force) Hybrid (lil force and guns) merc (most of the guns) Heavy Gunner (the more powerful, explosive guns) Sniper (weaker guns, but gets distruptor) Engineer (can build a few things) Guard (can increase the team's defensive strength) Killer (can increase the team's offensive strength) Yeah, there won't be any "I wouldn't be able to run to the enemy base and kill everyone alone!" That gets so boring...teamwork, however, is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 That's sounds an awful lot like... *drumroll* .......PROMOD! *tries desperately to hold back yet another shameless Promod-plug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 JK needs a class-based STRATEGIC and balanced game. Right now, any player can do anything, so he can go rambo...forget the team. In TFC, at least it does take teamwork. Well I'm all for more game modes to add to the existing ones. No replacements though. It's important to remember that people "go rambo" all the time in TFC, and it's tough to get any teamwork at all on a public server unless you yomp on there with your whole clan... in which case it'll be a little one-sided. I doubt a class-based system would automatically mean instant online success for the DF franchise. But sure, a class-based mode to ADD to the existing DM and vanilla CTF would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 I would argue that the sniper has the most powerful weapon. Also currently in CTF, no "rambo" has a chance in hell of winning unless the opposition is extremely poor. All you need is 3 defenders and any one man army *shouldn't* be a problem anymore. I was playing CTF the other day with Skygod and we were seeing how quickly we could reach 8 caps, we had reached 7 caps within a few minutes when the enemy suddenly decided to catch on and start defending. It took us another 4 minutes to get the last cap simply because it took us that long to experiment and find the weakness (incidently the weakness was that they were bad aims). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Originally posted by graigsmith who cares about single player? single player games suck. i bought Jedi knight 2 for 2 reasons. it had multiplayer, and i heard it was fun. it was fun, till raven patched the fun right out of the game. now its just stupid and pointless, i actually uninstalled the game from my pc. and raven now gets on my black-list of do not buy games from, along with nihillistic for making such a buggy vampire the masquerade game. if theres a sequel to this game i likely wont buy it cause it will suck. if lucas arts / raven diddn't care to make the multiplayer good in the first place, then i don't wanna try another one of their games. however if a jedi multiplayer ONLY game comes out, i might try that, if i hear its fun and bug free and balanced.. [RANT] Then for God's sake why are you here? That's some sweet trolling you got going on there. "I don't play this game, I don't like, everything sucks about it, and I will never buy anything from Raven ever again because they destroyed all my fun." Any reason why you think it sucks? Can't pull-backstab any more? And you actually have a blacklist? What are you 8? You are certainly entitled to have your opinion about not liking singleplayer games, but again, if you are going to take the time to post, at least say why you don't like it. I bought this game because of singleplayer, not MP. And there are many people (most?) that love SP as well. Not all of use play to be 1ee7 d00ds. But MP is fun too, and I am so glad you won't be around playing this game or the next. [/RANT] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ: incidently the weakness was that they were bad aims Is that a working sentence? Mur. Regardless, that's the whole point in a nutshell isn't it? Those who can't cut it won't, regardless of what team they've got, or what tactics they use, or what game modes they like the idea of. A lot of people who want CHANGE! want CHANGE! because they think CHANGE! will help them win, because they're unhealthily obsessed with winning. They couch it in such fluffy terminology as "Let's make the game fairererer" or "Let's balance0rz the game" but what they mean is "Let's go through infinite permutations until I find one which I have so much natural talent at, I won't need to practice at all ever ever ever. And what happens is something 1.03-esque, and they STILL don't win. It's all so depressing. No game has any hope of being great, as long as people like the whingers who precipitated 1.03's release, are among us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Originally posted by Spider AL Is that a working sentence? Mur. Regardless, that's the whole point in a nutshell isn't it? Those who can't cut it won't, regardless of what team they've got, or what tactics they use, or what game modes they like the idea of. A lot of people who want CHANGE! want CHANGE! because they think CHANGE! will help them win, because they're unhealthily obsessed with winning. They couch it in such fluffy terminology as "Let's make the game fairererer" or "Let's balance0rz the game" but what they mean is "Let's go through infinite permutations until I find one which I have so much natural talent at, I won't need to practice at all ever ever ever. And what happens is something 1.03-esque, and they STILL don't win. It's all so depressing. No game has any hope of being great, as long as people like the whingers who precipitated 1.03's release, are among us. Here here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted February 8, 2003 Author Share Posted February 8, 2003 Originally posted by Spider AL Is that a working sentence? Mur. Regardless, that's the whole point in a nutshell isn't it? Those who can't cut it won't, regardless of what team they've got, or what tactics they use, or what game modes they like the idea of. A lot of people who want CHANGE! want CHANGE! because they think CHANGE! will help them win, because they're unhealthily obsessed with winning. They couch it in such fluffy terminology as "Let's make the game fairererer" or "Let's balance0rz the game" but what they mean is "Let's go through infinite permutations until I find one which I have so much natural talent at, I won't need to practice at all ever ever ever. And what happens is something 1.03-esque, and they STILL don't win. It's all so depressing. No game has any hope of being great, as long as people like the whingers who precipitated 1.03's release, are among us. Oh god plz. You are so ignorant to what this game is that you shut down any suggestion be it big or small. The distinction between change, and improvement is almost none existant. When you improve upon something, you mimic it but CHANGE certain attributes or characteristics to enhance it in some way. Your problem is lack of respect for the SW movies, thats the bottom line. You are one of those individuals who casually enjoys SW (which is fine) but who also dislikes much of it for ridiculous reasons. I can imagine you in the theatre, 'Please is this suppose to be some poor excuse for a workable plasma based ignition module. That is just sad, I would laugh if it weren't so shameful. Force? Non-newtonian physics, bull.' Your 'know it all' attitude is extremely unwelcoming and is probablly the reason I have been arguing with you for such a long time. You do not accept anything unless it is exactly what you want, and you furture redicule with your stupid stereotypes. I say I had it with you. Although many disagree with my views, Prime and the others, they do it in a much more respectable manner. Forget you spider al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by Smood: Oh god plz. You are so ignorant to what this game is that you shut down any suggestion be it big or small. You're the one who's patently ignorant of the true nature of the DF series, willfully ignorant that is. Not only are your suggestions unworkable and ludicrous, but if they could be implemented by some miracle, the only possible result would be an unwieldy, slow and cumbersome RPG/beat-em-up hybrid, a heaven for those fanboys who enjoy bowing, scraping and spinning before an all-blue-stance duel no doubt, but a hell for every player who has ever experienced the atmosphere, speed and wealth of options that characterize the Dark Forces series. Originally posted by Smood: The distinction between change, and improvement is almost none existant. When you improve upon something, you mimic it but CHANGE certain attributes or characteristics to enhance it in some way. The difference between change and improvement, my dear Professor Bunsen, is that while change can be for the better, or for the worse, improvement is change for the better. In other words, your suggestions, were they ever to be implemented on some hell-world in a parallel universe, would effect the opposite of improvement upon the unsuspecting Dark Forces IV. I really shouldn't have to explain all this... Originally posted by Smood: Your problem is lack of respect for the SW movies, thats the bottom line. You are one of those individuals who casually enjoys SW (which is fine) but who also dislikes much of it for ridiculous reasons. Hah! I was busy appreciating the very subtlest nuances of the Star Wars trilogy before you'd seen your first keyboard. Last week, in other words. Regardless of my newbieness and "casual" status however, it's plain for all to see that I have a deeper respect and understanding of the Star Wars movies than you do, you who proclaim without a shadow of humour that "Jedi nevar nevar nevar use anything but teh litesabar!!!11" Even if I didn't possess superior SW skillz0rz to you though, the fact remains that the game is a game, not a movie, and even if your suggestions made the game truer to the movies (which in fact they would not) they most certainly would not improve the gameplay. Originally posted by Smood: Your 'know it all' attitude is extremely unwelcoming I rarely welcome anything that threatens to lower my IQ by ten points solely through its presence. Originally posted by Smood: Forget you spider al. Have I just been the victim of a TV-cut swearword removing overdub? If so, there's just one thing to say to you... Yippee ki-yay, kimosabe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 *goes to the shop to get more popcorn* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Interesting that Spider_AL has posted at least twice as many useful and informative posts as me since the points system was introduced yet has a lower total, especially since he doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would bother spending them. *approves Spider_AL's latest post* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 Ya here's spider AL's right hand man. I guess if spider AL quotes everything I say and has the last word then DeTRiTiC will agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 really? personally I don't like him much, but I also happen to agree with his points. I'm just finding this thread to be a great source of entertainment. You see, both of your posts consist in their entirety of quoting other posts. So you have to ask yourself, why not come up with something new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Okay, let's stay on topic people - move along...move along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vicious Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 lots of flaming going on here. I'm going to give my ideas/changes but i'll prolly get flamed too. If the third Jedi Knight game (expansions don't take nearly this long so i doubt it's one.) continues the trilogy of Jedi Knight (i don't count DF because it's more like a prequel) then i have little doubt it will be a NJO game. Obviously, i'm talking SP, not MP. you guys can discuss MP better than me. In any case, i believe a "roleplay" aspect of choosing light/dark for Kyle should still be available. As fighting the Yuuzhan Vong has made countless Jedi go dark, it's only rational that Kyle get a chance to as well. Also, the game combat should be sped up. Lightsaber on lightsaber, lightsaber on amphistaff, the faster and more realistic the better. Faster-paced battles get adrenaline pumping and heighten the experience. Saber combat works well as it is now, but it could be a little more up to pace. If the game doesn't continue the JK storyline and instead goes back to Anakin and obi-wan and all of them... forget i said a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Wan X Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 While I would love to see a Yuuzhan Vong based game, its just not going to happen. Not everyone knows about the New Jedi Order, and it would take a lot of work to get non star wars readers to really know a lot about the game. It would be nice to see it, but its just not going to happen imho. I think this game will have something to do with Tavion, obviously because of an escape that occured *coughs*. Id like to see a few things in the Expansion/ Sequel. - A solid amount of civilians, it just didnt feel like Star Wars walking around Nar Shadaa with humans without blasters. Little things like this can really set the emotion of a game. - Harder lightsaber combat, and when I say this, I dont mean the force being in this. I think the majority of JO players can agree with me when they say after a set time, JO SP lightsaber combat just wasn't hard. It was, but for a solid reason, the force. I want to be able to get my a** handed to me without the use of the force, me actually losing to a superior saber wielder. - Multiple SP characters, Kyle is great, but playing Luke or Mara or someone of the sort would be great to play as through some parts of the story. - Be able to set your path in the game, ala JK 1. Due to actions you'll become a jedi or sith, but even more indepth. Being able to choose to become a Mercenary again for a set amount of time, unlocking certain missions that you couldnt play starting out as a jedi, but still leading along the same plot. - More Star Wars characters. It was sad to see double faces in the Jedi Academy, double jedi trainers in the same room . I was also sad to see Han and Chewie not present, Leia as well. - More lightsaber options, twin sabers, lightstaffs, better weaponry - Melee combat consisting of more than just your lightsaber - More rpgish levels, im not asking for an rpg here. But I would like to be able to do some investigating in a city to find a bounty hunter or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 ^ some nice ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Vicious If the third Jedi Knight game (expansions don't take nearly this long so i doubt it's one.) continues the trilogy of Jedi Knight (i don't count DF because it's more like a prequel) then i have little doubt it will be a NJO game. Obviously, i'm talking SP, not MP. you guys can discuss MP better than me. In any case, i believe a "roleplay" aspect of choosing light/dark for Kyle should still be available. As fighting the Yuuzhan Vong has made countless Jedi go dark, it's only rational that Kyle get a chance to as well. As Obi-wan X stated, you can almost be sure that the next JO will have nothing to do with the NJO, for reasons that have been stated in thread and elsewhere (i.e. most SW fans don't know about it, no stormtroopers to fight, and having force powers that don't do anything). Maybe there will be an NJO game eventually, but it won't be in the Dark Forces series. The reason that JO did not have the ability to choose the light or dark side was because of implementation issues. The problem is that if you allow people to develop their force powers in their own way, you have to make the game for the lowest common denominator. Suppose that one player wants force jump at level 3 and another wants jump at level 1. The developers have to make sure that all the jumps can be made by jump level 1 so that player can finish the game. Same goes for the case where one player has force pull at level 1 and another has it at level 3. Now the devs need to make sure that switch you need to force pull can be made at level 1. So ultimately, the devs need to take into consideration all the possible variations in force powers. This is a lot more work than having a predefined progression of powers. [rant] This is not directed at your post Dath Vicious, but I hate that fact that the post ROTJ has all these Jedi turning to the dark side and then coming back. They make it sound like it is as easy as pie. Maybe I'm sounding like a fanboy, but isn't there enough evidence from the movies that "once you follow down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." Vader was obviously a special case, as he was the Chosen One. From what I remember, the EU had Luke, one of the Solo twins, Kyp, and who knows who else going to the Dark Side and coming back. If it is that easy, why doesn't everyone do it? "Man, getting out of this sticky situation will be easy when I nuke everyone with force lighting. Sure it will turn me to the dark side, but I'll turn back to the light tomorrow." To me, it just makes the Dark Side have no consequence. Anyway, sorry about the rant. [/rant] Obi-Wan X, I like some of your ideas, especially the civillian bystanders. I really missed having them in JO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I agree with you on all the points you made in that post, Obi-Wan X, except maybe the multiple character thing... but that could be because I'm hopelessly institutionalized and insist on playing as Kyle all the time. But hey, as long as the plot involved Kyle's character in some manner, It'd be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vicious Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Yes, the post-ROTJ books have made it annoyingly easy. If you read dark journey, (one of the worst star wars books i've ever read. a black spot in the NJO) you have Jaina solo falling to the dark side, using the Force like a kid eats candy... And she doesn't fall to the dark side...uhh...because she doesn't! Really really bad book and a perfect example of what you mean. and, in Traitor, Jacen really does fall to the dark side... but for some stupid reason he never does anything wrong. hell he actually saves several dozen people. (ironically this is also one of the best SW books out there.) And yes... now that i think about it, the NJO is simply too alien for most people to go for it. there's no stormtroopers or sith, so it's not immidiately recognizable. I say, hang tight, though... Once George Lucas is dead, his companies will immidiately begin to make rights for more games, more books, more movies... and a sci-fi channel TV series. GL may be stupid enough to try and let the franchise die after the prequels, but his company sure ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryudom Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 The developers have to make sure that all the jumps can be made by jump level 1 so that player can finish the game. you could make the player get all neutral or essential force powers, then he could pick light/dark beyond that. sure it might take a little more work, but would pay off, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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