George W. Bush

[The Count]

Actually Torque I went to bed, you didn't shut me up however, and if there is a forgiving God as you so state, then he would not condon murder of a criminal or innocent, you forget Christians believe in the sanctity of life for example when Jesus was being put to death He still asked God to forgive them not kill them, and in the garden of gethsemane he healed the soldiers wounded by Peter, in response to an eye for an eye, what about turn the other cheek didn't Jesus say that? He did so far you have wheedleed out this argument by ignoring all of my points where I have proved you wrong.

 

 

Also Jesus stated "let he without sin cast the first stone" and that was a response a woman who commited a crime.

 

 

Anyway back to the topic this is a political debate not a theological one, if you want to argue about God, go and make another thread however this is about George W. Bush and the crimes he's commited against humanity (he claims to be a Christian but he is the most un Christian person ever) and only red neck right wing pea brains such as yourself support him.

[The Count]

Thank You Lunatic, atleast all Americans aren't like FT, God fearing right wingers, but he's only 13 so I doubt he has a clue about politics, he even justified why priests have the desire to rape little kids.

 

 

Also FT those criminals should not have been put to death, rather rehabilitated, because isn't Jesus all about REDEMPTION how he saved man kind from sin. Jesus taught to love thy neighbour and was all about redemption.

 

and 2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

 

If a criminal kills a girl, it is not justified in the killing of the criminal, rather to rehabilitate him.

[Breton]

Meesa back

 

Alright, about religion: Imagine there is a person, a really kind person, who works to help the poor and suffering, and gives all her money to charity. He/she has many children, whom he/she loves very highly. He/she respects everyone, and constantly participate in making the world a better place for us all. Yet, he/she does not believe in God.

 

So, according to christianity, this kind and loving person is doomed to eternal torture in hell? How can you respect such a religion?

 

 

God or no God, I am no sinner just because I am logical.

[Nute Gunray]

I read not even four whole posts in this thread before I determined that you're all imbeciles that have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None of you have any clue concerning geopolitics or religion.

 

FUNFACT: Jesus was a religious hardliner. He endorsed the death penalty. If Jesus/God did not see the capital punishment as a legitimate tool of the state, Jesus would have died another way. Not to mention, "live by the sword, die by the sword" is a warning. You live a violent life, you will meet a violent end.

 

In a matter of three years, he's caused a terrorist incident that killed thousands of people (and I really do believe that it was his fault that it happened) and as a result, we've been dragged into two wars, both of which have had ulterior motives (oil, anyone?) and have subsequently lost the lives of hundreds American soldiers and the lives of countless civilians.

 

Here's a little factoid: in the war in Iraq, we killed more civilians that we did enemy soldiers. How lovely.

 

Perhaps if you read actual information, you'd see that this is a steaming load of ****.

 

1) Bush didn't cause anything. Clinton failed to adequately take down bin Laden's organization several times in the late 90s, following the twin embassy bombings and the USS Cole bombing.

 

2) Using oil as a 'cause' of GWII is as stupid beyond all imagination. LOL BUSH IS AN OILMAN LOL This betrays all economic logic imaginable. Why would an increase in supply be a good thing for someone that's trying to make money? They want a smaller supply so the price goes up. Hooray for you not knowing simple high school economics.

 

3) Civilian casualties are irrelevant. Saddam should not have placed weapons near civilians. Only 3000 civilians, according to Iraqi numbers, died. In WWII, more than 5000 died A DAY. BWAAAAAA an insignificant amount of people died in the shortest and least bloody war ever waged. Maybe next time I'll pull some strings and get a city burned to the ground just to let you have something to complain about. Those 200,000 that died in a single night in Tokyo would like to have a word about "horrible civilian casualties" with you.

 

Thanks, and please die.

[Darth Groovy]

I am moving this to the senate. I would highly advise that you folks dispense with the flaming of one another, or you will feel the wrath of c'jais.

[FunClown]

Shut up you pumkin pied redneck, dont you ever say crap about God like that again, you sleezy snoz wanking homo. I thin keverything Neo said was pure truth and I congratulate him on that. If god hated us dont you think the world would be over by know i mean come on, If he hated us why would he give us life. And if you had any brain you would know that people like you have hateful qualities you wack. I swear people like you are worthless, you do nobody good, all you do is complain about what you want, its all you, get your head out of your but and face reality.

 

Father Torque, is that colonal Sanders as your avatar. He was KKK.

[The Count]

Originally posted by FunClown

Father Torque, is that colonal Sanders as your avatar. He was KKK.

 

Oh yeah I forgot to point that out lol.

[The Count]

Originally posted by Nute Gunray

I read not even four whole posts in this thread before I determined that you're all imbeciles that have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None of you have any clue concerning geopolitics or religion.

 

FUNFACT: Jesus was a religious hardliner. He endorsed the death penalty. If Jesus/God did not see the capital punishment as a legitimate tool of the state, Jesus would have died another way. Not to mention, "live by the sword, die by the sword" is a warning. You live a violent life, you will meet a violent end.

 

 

 

Perhaps if you read actual information, you'd see that this is a steaming load of ****.

 

1) Bush didn't cause anything. Clinton failed to adequately take down bin Laden's organization several times in the late 90s, following the twin embassy bombings and the USS Cole bombing.

 

2) Using oil as a 'cause' of GWII is as stupid beyond all imagination. LOL BUSH IS AN OILMAN LOL This betrays all economic logic imaginable. Why would an increase in supply be a good thing for someone that's trying to make money? They want a smaller supply so the price goes up. Hooray for you not knowing simple high school economics.

 

3) Civilian casualties are irrelevant. Saddam should not have placed weapons near civilians. Only 3000 civilians, according to Iraqi numbers, died. In WWII, more than 5000 died A DAY. BWAAAAAA an insignificant amount of people died in the shortest and least bloody war ever waged. Maybe next time I'll pull some strings and get a city burned to the ground just to let you have something to complain about. Those 200,000 that died in a single night in Tokyo would like to have a word about "horrible civilian casualties" with you.

 

Thanks, and please die.

 

 

Actually on one said anything about Oil, I always agreed the US going into Iraq for oil was far too simplistic even for Dubya, I believe the US went to Iraq to establish a strategic power base where they could dominate the Middle East (there is Geopolitics for you)

 

No one said Bush caused September the 11th, I'm saying he was the catalyst with his arrogant foreign policy, it's not Clinton's fault that Sep 11th happened (can he see into the future) he was alot more positive about a peace policy to the Middle East than Dubya's hey lets invade them all, it was a result of Dubya sticking to the view the American way is the right way no question about it that got them, before he came President he hardly left American waters either, THATS Experience for you!

 

If he was President during the Cuban Missile Crisis well I dread to think what would happen to us all.

[ShockV1.89]

Actually on one said anything about Oil, I always agreed the US going into Iraq for oil was far too simplistic even for Dubya, I believe the US went to Iraq to establish a strategic power base where they could dominate the Middle East (there is Geopolitics for you)

 

Honestly, I dont see a problem with this. I would prefer it be done in a less violent way than was done, but I still would want America or the EU in control of the Middle East. I say this because the Middle Easterners dont seem to be able behave themselves, always blowing each other up or starting "holy wars" or whatnot. Call it my "simple American" viewpoint, if you will, but that's what I see.

 

That area is of too much importance to the entire world to allow people who cant stop strapping on TNT vests to control it.

[The Count]

Thing is, if the good ol' U S of A didn't have such an arrogant stuborn foreign policy these TNT nuts wouldn't be round.

[TheJackal]

Originally posted by Darth Tyranus

Thing is, if the good ol' U S of A didn't have such an arrogant stuborn foreign policy these TNT nuts wouldn't be round.

 

 

it a way that is true. Not because of Bush or because of Clinton. But because a whole line of Presidents who gave weapons and money away to favor the American in economic way and in political ways (to undermine the Soviets mostly).

 

Guatamela is a great example. A nation with a President who was corrupted and murdered a lot of his civilians (sounds like Hussein no?). There was a revolt. The citizens took back what was thiers and formed a Communist government. It was one of the first non corrupted Communist government to take place. They recieve praise worldwide for helping a great deal the health and education of its population. Child mortality was in an all time low in decades.

 

But since they were Communist, the USA felt threatned to have a Communist country even closer to the USA fearing it would be the best staging point for a missile strike (does Cuba ring a bell?)

 

So they hired and trained the old guards of the de-throned President to cause a civil war in that country. Civil war STILL rages on today as it is. The government has fallen. anarchy.

 

Its not the President himself but the line of Presidents that caused the problems. Some of them involved themselves in terrible ways. I'm sure someone could give you the facts shown in Bowling For Columbine (i dont have them with me)

 

So its not the complete government and the nation as a whole. The problem is the string of government who fear change and gain control through fear.

 

on a side note: here's an interresting site you should take a look at: http://www.unbrandamerica.org/

[darth_yomama]

Dang! I thought this was put to a stop yesterday!

[Father Torque]

Originally posted by Breton

Meesa back

 

Alright, about religion: Imagine there is a person, a really kind person, who works to help the poor and suffering, and gives all her money to charity. He/she has many children, whom he/she loves very highly. He/she respects everyone, and constantly participate in making the world a better place for us all. Yet, he/she does not believe in God.

 

So, according to christianity, this kind and loving person is doomed to eternal torture in hell? How can you respect such a religion?

 

 

God or no God, I am no sinner just because I am logical.

 

I never said that, people will go to heaven but it doesnt matter how nice they are, they could donate all of there money but not believing god is basically hating or rejecting him, which states in the bible that the person should be put to death but not go to hell.

 

And DT, what about the man in your avatar lets talk about him for a while, o woops cant sorry youre banned, Maybe next time you should about making a thread about people being in the KKK, you jerk. Never ever say that to anyone again. And you say I have no clue beacuse im 13, well what kind of immature person says crap like that about people they met on the internet.

 

I hope I never hear that from anyone again. And Clown Boy if you wanna talk crap about Colonel Sanders go cry to your mom and tell her that a guy had a picture of Colonel Sanders because colonel sanders created KFC which the guy on the forum. And perhaps next time think before you post because you get people like DT hiped up and banned. I am not even having fun debating anymore, im tired of people telling me my religion is wrong, and making threads that are like do you think FT is in the KKK:mad:

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by Nute Gunray

FUNFACT: Jesus was a religious hardliner.

 

By all intellectual standards, Jesus was a myth. At most he was the illegitimate child of some unknown father that his mother and adoptive father chose to perpetuate an old prophecy in order to avoid bannishment/ridicule/etc.

 

Originally posted by Nute Gunray

1) Bush didn't cause anything. Clinton failed to adequately take down bin Laden's organization several times in the late 90s, following the twin embassy bombings and the USS Cole bombing.

 

Bin Laden's organization is still in existance and still very much a threat. Clinton and Bush have that much in common.

 

Originally posted by Nute Gunray

2) Using oil as a 'cause' of GWII is as stupid beyond all imagination. LOL BUSH IS AN OILMAN LOL This betrays all economic logic imaginable. Why would an increase in supply be a good thing for someone that's trying to make money? They want a smaller supply so the price goes up. Hooray for you not knowing simple high school economics.

 

There is/was serious consideration among OPEC nations to move towards the Euro from the Dollar as the base currency for oil. This would have interesting economic reprecutions, particularly in the U.S. Also, the Iraqi oil production and industry is next to nil after a decade of sanctions and poor maintenance. Care to guess what companies are getting contracts to rebuild and do new explorations? I could say, "Hooray for you for not knowing simple college economics," but you may not have finished high school as yet. So I won't.

 

Originally posted by Nute Gunray

3) Civilian casualties are irrelevant.

 

Not if you are a civilian casualty. How many deaths is acceptable to free a nation? Who gets to choose the number?

 

Originally posted by Nute Gunray

Thanks, and please die.

 

That kind of comment doesn't fit with the normal discussion of the Senate....

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by Father Torque

And DT, what about the man in your avatar lets talk about him for a while, o woops cant sorry youre banned, Maybe next time you should about making a thread about people being in the KKK, you jerk.

 

I don't think I've ever intereacted with either of you, but you both presented an immature position. This gem of a thread has been graciously deposited in the Senate, where we don't talk that way to each other (err... not very often anyway).

 

* post reported

 

Please attack the argument, not the person if you choose to continue here.

 

Sorry for playing mod, Jais... it just bothered me... the con is yours again

[Breton]

Originally posted by Father Torque

I never said that, people will go to heaven but it doesnt matter how nice they are, they could donate all of there money but not believing god is basically hating or rejecting him, which states in the bible that the person should be put to death but not go to hell.

 

To not believe in God is neither to hate or reject him, simply because you can't hate or reject something you have no reason to believe excists. And I am pretty sure it states in the Bible that everyone who does not believe in God shall go to hell.

 

The real question is: Why do you believe there is a God? There is nothing but an old book that indicates he excists, and we can all agree that the book is written by humans, and is so pretty much fiction.

 

And another question: Why do you believe your religion is right? What about Islam, Hinduism and the like? What makes these religions less true than christianity?

[Thrackan Solo]

And what makes you feel that there isnt a God?

[ShockV1.89]

Originally posted by Darth Tyranus

Thing is, if the good ol' U S of A didn't have such an arrogant stuborn foreign policy these TNT nuts wouldn't be round.

 

Yes they would. Believe it or not, the european nations were the first ones to get their hands dirty in the Middle East. Britain was key in the formation and rise to power of Israel.

 

But you wont hear that, being that you are so intensley anti-american and wish only to bash us, ignoring that perhaps other countries are guilty of the same crimes...

[Kain]

I can't speak for non-believers other than myself. But my disbelief stems from 2 things

1. I've yet to see any proof of a kind and caring God

2. The fact that there is some omnipotent being is sure lunacy in my book.

[Breton]

Originally posted by Thrackan Solo

And what makes you feel that there isnt a God?

 

And what makes you feel that the universe wasn't created by an ostrich named Ted?

 

Do you get my point? The burden of proof is on your side, not mine. It isn't possible to disprove that there is a God, just as it isn't possible to disprove that it was created by an ostrich named Ted.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Breton

And what makes you feel that the universe wasn't created by an ostrich named Ted?

 

Do you get my point? The burden of proof is on your side, not mine. It isn't possible to disprove that there is a God, just as it isn't possible to disprove that it was created by an ostrich named Ted.

ostrich? ted? how do you know about ted!?!!

very well put breton.

 

also, neo... what do you mean?

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by ShockV1.89

Yes they would. Believe it or not, the european nations were the first ones to get their hands dirty in the Middle East. Britain was key in the formation and rise to power of Israel.

 

But you wont hear that, being that you are so intensley anti-american and wish only to bash us, ignoring that perhaps other countries are guilty of the same crimes...

actually it was america that first rejected the european jews.

[ShockV1.89]

Yes, but it was only trying to keep out of the European conflict. It didnt wish to anger Hitler and make yet another enemy, and allowing the Jews to take refuge there would have added America to the long list of countries that Hitler wanted to take (which it was probably on anyway...).

 

I really don't think that makes them involved with Israel before Britain. And they had virtually no presence in the Middle East until after WW2. That was all Europe.

[El Sitherino]

dude they fronted the idea of giving a peice of land for the jews. and america hated jews just as much as hitler did but they didn't decide to kill them in massive camps.

[ShockV1.89]

dude they fronted the idea of giving a peice of land for the jews.

 

I have somewhere the name of the Zionist who originally proposed the idea. But before I go digging through last years notes on the Middle East (took a 400 level course in it), I'd like to hear your proof on that. Find me something that says that America was the first to propose the idea that created Israel.