Corley Motors Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I would not. Even though it could possibly be better than Full Throttle 2's graphics. Everything is better than them. I just wanted to see if instead of having the animated cartoony look for Full Throttle, would you rather have them replaced by Grim Fandango's? And Grim Fandango's with Full Throttle's? I personally cannot picture them turned around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingzjester Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 What in the world are you saying?! Skeletons on bikes and live people in the land of the dead?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by Kingzjester What in the world are you saying?! Skeletons on bikes and live people in the land of the dead?! I think this human is talking about the drawing style of both games and not mixing the game together. My personal meaning is that the whole 3d style in adventures S#$#S. If all the games go back to 2D style such as http://www.runaway-game.de/images/screenshots/04_big.jpg then there will be alot more happiness in the world. I hope there will be a adventure in the future such as king`s Quest in a superb 2D style with gnomes, dwarfs, fairy`s, talking trees, talking mushroom, witches ect Oke sorry I will stop this was not he topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomStLeger Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 2D to 3D is like Black and White tv to Colour, It's inevitable. Anyway, of the few 3D adventures so far, the quality has been quite good. Grim Fandango was very well recieved and is very nice looking. Monkey Island 4 looks good. And GK3, along with Grim argueably one of the best games made, has good graphics imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 well...making Full Throttle a more "reality" could be good, but the semi-cartoony look looks good also. Let's wait and see how exactly it will get. I think it will gave good atmosphere... ------------------------------ Sar, staying in 2d for ever is just nonsence. It's not healthy... 2D to 3D is like Black and White tv to Colour, It's inevitable. agreed, but it's different...as 2d can be used, and must be used...but with balance with the 3d... 2d aren't an old technology, it's just a different way of looking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Oke oke oke I see I am from the generation of when the computers were born and I played Leisure suit larry on a green screen:D and I found it very hard to believe when I got Kings quest 8 that it was such ugly violent game the nice creatures were away and the fully happy collors were dark black and ugly. Untill that day I never got that old fashion adventure games feeling back again. I must say that Gabriel Knight 4 and MI4 was a nice game to play without any fighting or other stupid action things in the so called adventure. Can anyone tell me, does this generation wants adventure games in a action style or just as MI, Kings quest,Space quest, Toonstruck, Indiana Jones the first 3 offcourse. Have mercy with me if you reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 The problem with 3D is that there haven't been many 3D adventure games that had a skilled modelling team and some proper artistic direction (Grim Fandango is an exception here). So inevitably many people are going to say that 3D sucks and that 2D is fundamentally superior. 3D *can* in fact have a more character and atmosphere than 2D. For example, check out the first half of the new Pixar trailer (The Incredibles it's called I believe?) to see what I mean. See how dusty and 2D-ish it looks? That can totally be achieved in a pre-rendered 3D adventure. Sadly, LucasArts isn't very good at 3D, which has led most adventure gamers to hate that graphics style. I personally think that it would be very healthy for adventure games to go properly 3D, and I hope that games like TLJ2 will get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I just saw the trailer of the incredibles (funny as well) if the adventures will be made in this kind of 3D then I think there will be alot of fun and then the adventures will be reborn again but I think we must wait another 8 years untill we get such a quality on hour pc. ps nice movie I did not know if this one was coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by SAR Oke oke oke I see I am from the generation of when the computers were born and I played Leisure suit larry on a green screen:D and I found it very hard to believe when I got Kings quest 8 that it was such ugly violent game the nice creatures were away and the fully happy collors were dark black and ugly. Untill that day I never got that old fashion adventure games feeling back again. I must say that Gabriel Knight 4 and MI4 was a nice game to play without any fighting or other stupid action things in the so called adventure. Can anyone tell me, does this generation wants adventure games in a action style or just as MI, Kings quest,Space quest, Toonstruck, Indiana Jones the first 3 offcourse. Have mercy with me if you reply happy to see you aren't from "those guys" that instanly abandon the idea of going forward, those future-phophic and past-walkers Well...as marek said ( (Grim Fandango is an exception here). thank you for saying that) 3D is just not used REALLY correcty..it started more as a modern thingy...but the creators started getting aknowledge of it...check The pre-interviews of Broken Sword 3, The Longest Journey 2, Sam & Max 2 and Jane jensen new project.... There was a time where mosty said that adventures died (such a lie) so the companies decided to focus on more to the technology (as action games) and less to the soul.... But we HAD PERFECT GAMES minus some faults (look at previous quote ) As usual to anything some time needed. Look at Gabriel Knight 3. PERFECT idea for interface..(you are the pointer) but lost a little from some problems....like some riddles got so difficult with the way the new interface was.....but it also let out more ideas for new riddles... And also look at Monkey Island 4...a decent game that lost a lot dew to using exactly the same engine as Grim fandango but putting more thingies on it and thus making it complex.... Also the grafics can be splentid and have the same atmopheric feeling...even in 3D... lastly...it's good to hate King's quest 8...No good...(wrong things happened there ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twifkak Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by DomStLeger 2D to 3D is like Black and White tv to Colour, It's inevitable. Anyway, of the few 3D adventures so far, the quality has been quite good. Grim Fandango was very well recieved and is very nice looking. Monkey Island 4 looks good. And GK3, along with Grim argueably one of the best games made, has good graphics imo. Damn, that's an appropriate analogy. (Yeah, what a superlative.) I'm saddened I never thought of that. Actually, change "TV" to "movies," and it fits perfectly, considering the slow transition to color, and the crappy substitutes (Technicolor = N64 ) along the way, and considering people still make B&W movies (Schindler's List). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by pleto4_ryan happy to see you aren't from "those guys" that instanly abandon the idea of going forward, those future-phophic and past-walkers Well...as marek said ( thank you for saying that) I always standing open for new things so I am not a flat guy that see stuff Black or White. I just hope that the adventure makers will try to make the games better now (in 3d) I must say that SAM n MAX 2 is looking great and I hope the ingame pictures will be the same as the movie otherwise the 3d can maybe be dissapointed LET MONKEY ISLAND 5 BE SO GREAT AS THE NEW MOVIE "THE INCREDIBLES" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by SAR I just saw the trailer of the incredibles (funny as well) if the adventures will be made in this kind of 3D then I think there will be alot of fun and then the adventures will be reborn again but I think we must wait another 8 years untill we get such a quality on hour pc. ps nice movie I did not know if this one was coming! I was talking more about the art direction than the technical side. A Pixar level of character animation and detail is not feasible with current real-time engines and budgets, but the style of The Incredibles is definitely something that can be realized in a game. Just look at that wall with the posters and imagine that's a new graphic adventure. Even the most hardened pro-2D voices would wet their pants over a game that looked as nice as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wajus Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Yeah the change into 3D is inevitable - it's more flexible and gives more creative opportunitties (especially in gaming). But there's really no reason to panic over it. I think that people at Disney and Pixar who decided to move into creating full computer generated animations that still look like classic hand drawn ones showed the gaming industry the way to go. It's pretty obvious that 3D games won't suddenly start to look like those epic animations from cinemas, but it's only a matter of time until we will expierience such quality on our PCs (and maybe consoles ). Besides look how loooong it took 2D graphic adventures to reach the quality of animations and abandon the infamous pixelization. With 3D however this is really going to occur much more faster. Edit: Thanks for The Incredibles trailer Marek! It's just brilliant expose of genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixor Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I'm not sure I really understand what the point of this thread is, but I've seen the trailer for The Incredibles as well, and I have to say that there's no doubt in my mind it will be my favorite Pixar film yet. I really enjoyed Finding Nemo, but my favorite part of that movie was seeing the trailer for The Incredibles. It's going to be really hard to wait until NEXT November for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor S1 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by DomStLeger 2D to 3D is like Black and White tv to Colour, It's inevitable. Now that's just wrong 2d & 3d are two completely different technics&styles. There are games that i would much rather see in 2d and games that just feels right in 3d. It's a matter of style. The only thing is, developers don't realize that (anyone saw that fighting game... what is it called again (i think it's from Capcom)? Now, that shows what incredible things could be done in 2d today- it just feels different (better) than 3d). As for 3d, i agree with Marek- it can do wonders... The problem is, while LA was on top as far as 2d design goes, they are not that good with 3d. Well, i'm puting my hopes up for BS3 to finally bring us "properly" (professionally?) made 3d adventure game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twifkak Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Igor, you didn't even read my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomStLeger Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by Igor S1 Now that's just wrong 2d & 3d are two completely different technics&styles. There are games that i would much rather see in 2d and games that just feels right in 3d. It's a matter of style. The only thing is, developers don't realize that (anyone saw that fighting game... what is it called again (i think it's from Capcom)? Now, that shows what incredible things could be done in 2d today- it just feels different (better) than 3d). As for 3d, i agree with Marek- it can do wonders... The problem is, while LA was on top as far as 2d design goes, they are not that good with 3d. Well, i'm puting my hopes up for BS3 to finally bring us "properly" (professionally?) made 3d adventure game. 2d and 3d will only be a matter of style in the future. Someone mentioned Schindler's List, 2D will imo be used in a similar way; only for artistic reasons. The thing that holds back 3D at the moment is the cost; it's very expensive to produce a 3D game what with the engine and the textures etc. But like Colour Television, it will become a standard, and just as Colour Film, Cameras and TV sets came down in price, 3D game production will come down in price (probably through standard 3D engines, reused textures). So imo it is inevitable. 2D won't die out completely, but 3D will become the standard. And lets face it, the next logical step for computer games is to use VR headsets, so 3D is going to be required. If adventure games companys want to survive they have to keep up. Fingers crossed for BS3, the adventure games 3D standard barer I hope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twifkak Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by DomStLeger And lets face it, the next logical step for computer games is to use VR headsets Err... no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomStLeger Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by twifkak Err... no... Ok the next logical step after the next 50 or so But the technology is there, and it makes sense that after flat 2d screens people will move on to the headsets. Hopefully it's not that far off. I bet Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are all looking into it for their next console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Originally posted by remixor I'm not sure I really understand what the point of this thread is, but I've seen the trailer for The Incredibles as well, and I have to say that there's no doubt in my mind it will be my favorite Pixar film yet. I really enjoyed Finding Nemo, but my favorite part of that movie was seeing the trailer for The Incredibles. It's going to be really hard to wait until NEXT November for this. NEXT YEAR'S November... and probably 2005 in Europe... we're not getting Nemo until this year's November... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 2D and 3D, besides being art styles, also cause fundamentally different gameplay. Igor is totally right about that. That's the reason why strategy games will always be 2D, or at least have a birds-eye view of the battlefield (Total Annihilation, C&C Generals, etc. are rendered in 3D but still have a flat scrolling map.) I need to be able to see a lot of things at once, so 2D is perfect for that. It's just the "nature of the beast" for some genres. Adventure games have almost exclusively been 2D for two decades now. The whole adventure game mindsetting has been 2D for a very long time. You can even go back to Zork. Even though it's text based, I know that its gameplay is '2D'. You navigate around by typing NORTH, SOUTH, etc. People visualise that as a map. People who play text adventures often make a checkerboard-like overview of the fields they've explored. In point-and-click adventures, regardless of first- or third person perspective, you're looking at a sequence of flat pictures. When you're playing a game like that, I think what people remember is the individual pictures. They rarely connect them all together to form a complete and continuous world in their mind. Uhm, I don't know actually. At least its not on a high level. I'm not talking about the immediation or immersiveness, but rather about the way people process the world in their subconciousness. I think that, when we're talking about gameplay, the nature of adventure games actually lies in 3D. The essence of adventure games is exploring worlds. I think the best way to make that a rich experience is to present the world as a continuous 3d environment. I think what goes on in the mind of a gamer playing a 3d game is actually a continuous process of trying to find his bearings, connecting locations to each other and remembering ways to navigate around them. It seems much more involving to me, with a potential for a much higher level of immediation. It's too bad that the few 3D adventure games that were made had to be so dissapointing. I think that if it's finally done right, with proper graphics full of character and atmosphere, and an interface that doesn't piss everyone off, 3D should become the dominant gameplay style for adventure games. At least, that's my opinion. Wow, look at the time. I should really do some work now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor S1 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Hehe, Marek beat me with that reply, so all i can say now is: agree. It's hard to compare "2d to 3d" with "black&white to color", because it's more than sheer artistic thing. Movies can be black&white or in color, but the story and the way it is told, is still the same. With games, however, it is different- 2d or 3d also means different gameplay. I like both. Twifkak- i did read your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twifkak Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 1)I don't see VR headsets catching on in the mainstream, in that it "glues" you to your PC, and blocks you from the outside world (of which most people prefer to remain aware). For games? Yeah, probably. The technology has a long way to go, but peripheral vision is certainly a common desire among those wishing to quench the ever-growing need to suspend disbelief in a world of ever-growing skepticism, not to mention a sorely missed gameplay technique. Someone'll probably come up with a simpler, cheaper solution, though, as technology improves (tri-fold monitor, maybe?). In short: Err... no... 2)I liked Nemo, from a gfx-enthusiast standpoint (and 'cause it was amusing). Cool effects, really cool semi-real animation. 3)"2D and 3D, besides being art styles, also cause fundamentally different gameplay." I agree, but I think gameplay is a (potential) art form/medium/whathaveyou. Ikaruga (1, 2) is a decent example of dance, IMO. Trudat on the rest, though. 4)Igor: My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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