Does ROTK 'up the anty' for Lucas and EpIII ?

[Astrotoy7]

OK, Ive just seen LOTR-Return of The King for the 3rd time...probably my final before DVD, its soooo long Plus I have an extra headache as I had watched teh "Fellowship" and "Two Towers" EEs before I went to see ROTK for the 3rd time... *ugh* (rubs head)....pass the paracetamol.....

 

But despite the headache, I am still in awe of Peter Jackson's achievement. Without going into a debate about the success of his translation of Tolkiens masterpiece into film, Id like to draw attention to the special effects in the film(s)...they were just spectacular, especially so in ROTK..... and I'd eat my hat if ROTK does not win the oscar for best VFX......

 

What I'd like to ask though, would this mean George Lucas/ILM will go that bit extra(than perhaps they were orginally intending) to be able to match or outdo the outstanding Vfx achievements in LOTR......it all depends on what the story calls for of course.....

 

MTFWBYA

[Boba Rhett]

I sure hope so.

 

 

And I hope that bit extra doesn't mean a second Jar Jar. ... or anything remotely related to the NJO.

[Pie™]

Originally posted by Boba Rhett

I sure hope so.

 

 

And I hope that bit extra doesn't mean a second Jar Jar. ... or anything remotely related to the NJO.

What the li' green potsmoking one said

[Astrotoy7]

Originally posted by Boba Rhett

I sure hope so.

 

 

And I hope that bit extra doesn't mean a second Jar Jar. ... or anything remotely related to the NJO.

 

I doubt that....Jar Jars diminished presence in E2 was testimony to the fact that Lucas *did* listen to the huge amount of negative feedback about Jar jar....... I actually, do like the NJO but I dont think it has any place in the prequel trilogy, which is really all about anakin and his downfall.....

 

 

I just want to see another HUGE SPACE BATTLE !!!! Battle of Yavin/Endor style !! ...that pissy little encounter in Ep1 doesnt count !

 

 

MTFWBYA

[Sivy]

well if the leaked video and pictures are anything to go by, ep III will be fantastic, quite possibly the best one in the series IMO.

[Sam Fisher]

I hope so too! It'd be another awesome thing

[Astrotoy7]

Originally posted by Siv

well if the leaked video and pictures are anything to go by, ep III will be fantastic, quite possibly the best one in the series IMO.

 

Ok, SIV ! PLEASE SAY NO MORE !! I am trying desperately hard to be spoiler free for Ep3....gosh its still over a year away and rumours and leaked info are starting to fly around already, bugger......

 

*if things get bad enough Im gonna go hang around a TREK forum dammit !!*

 

MTFWBYA

[Sam Fisher]

Hmm.. I haven't the faintest idea of what is going on for EPIII.. except that its gonna have Ani in it

[Sivy]

Originally posted by Astrotoy7

 

*if things get bad enough Im gonna go hang around a TREK forum dammit !!*

 

MTFWBYA

 

you might have too nearer the release

its hard staying spoiler-free, especially in this place.

imagine what it will be like once they release teasers and trailers... not only will everyone been talking about them but you'll start seeing alot of avatars and sigs with images from them.

it was such a struggle for me to keep spoiler-free for ep I & II that i'm not bothering this time. well, we know most of whats going to happen anyway.

[Kain]

George Lucas is gonna do something we all do atleast once...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CHOKE

[BawBag™]

This is only my opinion, but so far the prequel trilogy has been rubbish.

Ep III will have to be something spectacular. (which I for one hope so). But seen as Ep's 1 & 2 were pretty cack, I'd have to say RotK.

 

*Beaten by LFer's*

[Pie™]

Originally posted by BawBag™

This is only my opinion, but so far the prequel trilogy has been rubbish.

Ep III will have to be something spectacular. (which I for one hope so). But seen as Ep's 1 & 2 were pretty cack, I'd have to say RotK.

 

*Beaten by LFer's*

I agree... Just that episode 2 had some cool scenes

*defends BB from the attackers*

[Darklighter]

I agree BawBag. The first two films have been majorly under par for a Star Wars film, they weren't half as good as they should have been. I'll be honest, there's not much chance Episode III will beat ROTK, or any LOTR film, in sheer quality of acting, script, casting and presentation. Sure it'll be huge, but will it be good? Right now, I have very little faith in Lucas for the final movie...

[Troopr-Undr-Fir]

Originally posted by Darklighter

I agree BawBag. The first two films have been majorly under par for a Star Wars film, they weren't half as good as they should have been. I'll be honest, there's not much chance Episode III will beat ROTK, or any LOTR film, in sheer quality of acting, script, casting and presentation. Sure it'll be huge, but will it be good? Right now, I have very little faith in Lucas for the final movie...

 

Yes but the thread I don't think was about acting. More about Special effects. And of course star wars can't compare to the acting quality. But I do think the stand a fair chance to beat them in FX's part. because they should have a few battles with moderate to huge quantity. And of course what RoTK or any LotR film do not have are the one on one duels. Which are my favorite parts. And I love TPM duel. We should expect more than we are thinking. SO I SAY HAVE SOME FAITH IN GEORGE!

[Hermie]

nothing can compare to RotK!!!!!

 

btw, I sometime think people over hype Lucas. dont get me wrong, he got a good imagination, but not a super-duper-mega director. he was good, but has lost much.

[Prime]

I find it kind of hard to compare the two really. The story of The Lord of the Rings comes from probably the most indepth fantasy world ever created, and one that has stood the test of time as a very well written story. Peter Jackson did a fantastic job bringing it to life, but he certainly had an excellent starting point already. Could he have create the same movies without the LOTR books to begin with?

 

Star Wars stories come from such a different genre, and whose goals are very different. Lucas seeks to emulate the serials from the early to mid 20th century, whereas Tolkien tried to create a mythology. I don't think Lucas is even trying to create a story that compares to LOTR.

 

For me personally, I think both have achieved what they set out to do.

 

But LOTR is certainly a masterpiece.

[Astrotoy7]

Kids ! Im talking about FX only *WE ALL KNOW* that Tolkien created a mythology, Lucas isnt a 'true director' etc etc etc.....

 

I still think theres scope for ILM to show its mettle in Ep3.

 

BTW, Im sticking up for EpII, I loved it, saw it a dozen or so times too.....and you gotta admit Yoda fighting was cool, though perhaps amusing too...

 

As far as directors go, Peter Jackson was just using someone elses creation, no matter how well he may/may not have pulled it off....

 

I'm waiting for him to come up with something original that is a true exposition of his directorial style....(and yes I have seen Heavenly Creatures, which was based on someone elses book anyways)... so far Jackson is doing Kong, maybe the Hobbit, he's becoming more of a hollywood director by the day. You have to give Lucas credit in the sense that he did write the stories for Star Wars and the Indy movies, he also very openly distanced himself from Hollywood, if it wasnt for him and ILM, digital effects would not be where they were today..... In the "Fellowship" extended edition dvd Peter Jackson does describe spending some timne "at the ranch" and described Lucas and MacCallum as very helpful and encouraging in his project...

 

As far as directors go, how about David Lynch, Peter Greenaway, Jean Luc Goddard, Akira Kurosawa, Masaki Kobyashi......THOSE are directors dammit...dont even get me started on directors and the parasite that is Hollywood to the art of cinema....

 

*goes off and counts to 10, then goes off and watches Mulholland Drive by David Lynch.....fells more relaxed*

 

MTFWBYA

[DarkLord60]

I hate comparing but I hope EpIII Will do better. Although TH Lotr have better story lines and dialog than prequals.

[Darklighter]

If you only want to know if the FX will be better...then yes, they probly will; mainly because Lucas will see how much further Jackson has taken the use of special effects and build upon that, and SFX will have naturally advanced anyway in a year or so's time from now.

 

But still, my main criticism still stands. Looking back at Episode II compared to LOTR: FOTR...you can see that Lucas relied too much on special effects to tell the story. Pretty much every single scene contained some element of computer FX, whether it be on a massively decadant scale or only minor. Special effects don't make a movie, that is why I do not have great expectations for Episode III. I mean, was I the only person who couldn't take the Yoda/Dooku fight in II seriously? I felt like I was sitting watching a comedy parody of Star Wars. If you think back to ANH, ESB and ROTJ, there was a perfect balance between the action and drama, which made it seem more real. Lucas thinks that to make it fit in with today's audiences, he needs to overload the prequels with so much eye candy and visual awe. I think Lucas needs to take some time to go back to his roots.

 

Sorry to be so pesimistic, but if Lucas relies on computer graphics as much as he did in the previous prequel, I will be very disappointed. He needs to focus on the film elements that need more work (i.e, acting, script, story etc.).

 

My apologees for going off topic and ranting too much

[Gabrobot]

Don't forget the great work ILM did in Pirates of the Carribean...remember that the effects in EpII are from 2001 tech...

[Astrotoy7]

Originally posted by Kain

George Lucas is gonna do something we all do at least once...

 

CHOKE

 

No, the evil looking Mr Kain, Mr Lucas has done this already, take your pick:

 

*Howard the Duck

*Caravan of Courage, Battle for Endor(the Ewok movies)

*Radioland Murders

*Willow

*Episode I...i say this ONLY because of JAR JAR. if anyone has seen "The Phantom Edit" you'll understand that EpI can be quite better minus that idiot....

 

Thats why I was so impressed(and perhaps relieved) with EpII, very different to EpI, a bit more coherent, and the fact that GL realised he needed some help getting the screenplay done speaks volumes and IMHO is a credit to him....

 

Im looking forward to EpIII with baited breath.......of course a big part of this because I am a big SW fan and I want to see what happens, but as a film lover I want to see if ILM does indeed come up with something special. For their respective days, I think each of the prequels and each of the LOTR films maximised the available FX technology, in most part they used the same software to pull this off anyway....

 

MTFBWYA

[Clemme w/Stick]

I dont have any expectations for EPIII. All the SW prequals has been dissapointing, so I guess he'll try to get this one to be better....

Besides, u cant really compare LOTR and SW....

 

-Clemme

[Pie™]

Originally posted by Clemme w/Stick

All the SW prequals has been dissapointing, so I guess he'll try to get this one to be better....

Did Lucas think that the prequals were bad? If not i dont think he's gonna try to make this one better, but just stay on track...

sadly

[El Sitherino]

I think one reason Lucas hopped up the visual effects is because people now a-days (atleast what I've seen in america, namely texas) are looking for the best effects and action, and could care less about story. It's sad I know, But remember Lucas also has people he has to listen to(fox) since they supply the budget and want massive money, he's got to get it for them. From what I've seen he's getting back to the roots a bit more than he did in the previous two, but also I think he was trying to show how glorious thing were before the empire came, (trying to take what he had shot in the 70's {boxy and confined} and making it into a deeper meaning ). I prefer to think of the effects as their own story too.

 

I think I will always love star wars, seeing as they were the first movies I ever saw.

[toms]

I actually watched EpII again last weekend. (girlfriend hadn't seen it as EpI put her off). It was better than i remembered, although still bad in places. I thin if it had been any old film it would have been pretty good, but as it was SW it was below par.

 

I'm not sure whether you are just talking FX, or mean the films in general. Personally, i think one of the biggest downfalls of the new SW films has been that lucas has focused way too much on trying to make the best SFX and this has taken away from the actual plot and feel of the film. He should forget the SFX and concentrate on his characterisation and actors.

 

Having said that, i think most of the SFX in EpII are as good as in ROTK. I thought a lot of the battle scene in ROTK looked pretty fake (especially the horses), whereas the clone warriors battle at the end of EpII looks a lot better. Of course, it is a lot easier to CGI clone warriors in armour, deserts and vehicles than to CGI horses, but even so.

 

This is something i NEVER thought i would say, but the LOTR trilogy has overtaken the SW trilogy as my favorite film of all time. Not bad as SW held that award for at least 15 years. However it hasn't done it cos it has the best special effects, but cos it is the best mix of plot, action, characters AND sfx.

 

Basing a film's reputation of SFX is a bad idea anyway, as in a few years it will inevitably look bad. It's like making a game with great graphics and no substance... once those graphics have dated everyone forgets about it.

 

Anyway, there are about 5 films coming out between now and Ep3 that will each be trying to one-up each other in terms of big CGi battles (Troy comes to mind), and i think the audience is already reaching the point where the Wow!! factor of seeing a lot of people on screen is gone. So EP3 better have something more than a bigger battle in it's favor.