Does game length matter?

[txa1265]

Hi:

 

There's so much talk about Jedi Academy being 'too short', but not so much about Call of Duty or Halo, both of which were about half the length of JA. So I wonder - what matters to people?

 

Mike

[Hermie]

it matters. boy does it matter.

[Samuel Dravis]

Long, but only when it actually has a story to fill it out.

[Astrotoy7]

Mike, putting in that Yoda option was a stroke of genius, as I really dont have much fps experience(apart from JK series, Elite Force 1/2), I didn't know what else to choose !

 

mtfbwya

[Pie™]

I'm not using 60 $ on a game that is fun for 5 hours.

 

'nuff said!

[Sam Fisher]

A game can be short if it has replayability. If not, it might die quick.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Sam Fisher

A game can be short if it has replayability.

For me, replayability != MP.

 

So a short campaign needs something seriously attractive in terms of replayability to hook me ...

 

Mike

[abcd1234]

Games need to have some length to them. And I agree with the others in saying that replayability is a good thing too.

[ExcelsioN]

Great games tend to be long and good (Far Cry is an example). But there are still games that are short and great (like CoD), but which also has replayability.

 

But with a game like JA, which was short and shallow with almost no atmosphere (compare the atmosphere to that of Kotor) then it has very little replayability.

 

Although Halo and CoD were both shorter, they were a lot better in terms of how a game should be made.

 

I'm gonna have to vote for 'unsure' on the poll. Or maybe Yoda.

[Sivy]

i prefer my games to be long, at least longer than 15 hours.

there are few exceptions though, like Max Payne 1 & 2, Jedi Academy to name a couple. they have to be really good though to make up for it's shortness. that way you're likely to play them more and get your money's worth.

[narfblat]

If you like long games, try "Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind." It takes forever, and even after you complete the main objective, there are still a lot of things to do.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by narfblat

If you like long games, try "Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind." It takes forever, and even after you complete the main objective, there are still a lot of things to do.

I just got Morrowind for cheap on eBay ... I read someone describe it as Everquest with one person logged in

 

Mike

[narfblat]

I have both expansions for the PC version. "Tribunal" isn't very large but it makes certain things much better. I haven't played "Bloodmoon" yet, but I've heard it's another big island.

[GothiX]

Originally posted by Samuel Dravis

Long, but only when it actually has a story to fill it out.

 

Couldn't have said it better.

 

Oh, and Morrowind all the way. After 6 months, I'm still not even halfway through the main quest..

[CapNColostomy]

Game length doesn't matter a whole lot to me if the game itself is exceptional, and I'm not talking replay value. Take Max Payne 2 for example. One of the shortest games I've ever played. I thought it was one of the best action games of last year, but once I beat it, I didn't really want to play it anymore.

[Samuel Dravis]

Morrowind: Bloodmoon is larger than Tribunal, and it's an entire island (maybe around 1/5th or a quarter the size of Vvardenfell). It's interesting. One of the items you can find there is a half eaten nordic leg...yes, you can use it as a club.

[DarkLord60]

I beat morrowind in a couple of weeks

[Samuel Dravis]

Every quest? If so, you must have a lot of time to play games...I wish I had that much time.

[Batdroid]

about 15 hours is good, To long and i lose interest.

[Sam Fisher]

Hmm.. if you play nonstop for a couple weeks, and maybe the aid of a very explicit walkthrough, you can go through Morrowind, but I don't think Tribunal and Bloodmoon, as well as all the side quests for all the Guilds.

[MennoniteHobbit]

I vote Yoda!!!!!!!!

 

As long as there is a worthy story line, length does not matter to me. Though, with a good story line that is long, it would be better.

[Joe©]

if the game is long thats great, but it can't drag, thats a no no to game builders.

[StormHammer]

Oh man...you know you shouldn't get me started on game length.

 

As far as I'm concerned, an 'average' game length is 20 hours, and I feel like I've got my money's worth. 10 hours is short, and well, anything less than that is just taking the proverbial. To my mind, these shorter games tend to be more linear 'movie-like' experiences, often with lots of cut scenes to tell the story, and often limiting player choice. They are basically a regression to how games originally used to be, and I can't see that as being a good thing.

 

The original Max Payne is a good example of this. I think the game took me about 7 hours (including reloads), and it was completely on the rails from start to finish. I couldn't save people I wanted to save, because they were simply killed in cut scenes. The levels were rat-in-a-maze affairs so you could switch your brain off and just go with the flow. The story was okay, but not exactly ground-breaking - and the city streets were devoid of all life except bad guys, which was completely unrealistic. The only choice I felt I had was which weapon to use for the next gun fight, and whether or not to switch bullet time on. As a result, I've only ever played the game once, and I have no compulsion to play it again.

 

When I play a game, I want to be in full control of my character, and I want to have a choice regarding what happens during the game. Medal Of Honour: Allied Assault was a bit better, because you retain most of your traditional control over your character and some of the levels allow you to exhibit some basic tactics when assaulting an objective. It's still largely linear, though, and static enemy placements don't help. I was just starting to get my teeth into it when the credits started to roll 8 hours after I started playing it.

 

I groan when I read interviews where people like Warren Spector and John Carmack spout rubbish like 'shorter, deeper games' - while at the same time for DX:IW they stripped away half of the character control and development that was available in the original Deus Ex. DX:IW took me about 10 hours to complete (without rushing), but a few hours of that was wrestling with bugs and watching load screens. The 'emergent gameplay' choices were basically meaningless in terms of the overall story, and it didn't feel like a very deep gaming experience to me. By comparison, the original Deus Ex had a more linear story, larger levels, far better environmental interaction and character development, and took me over 30 hours to complete. Deus Ex is one of my all-time favourite games because of the finite control I had over my character's development, and the tactical and moral choices I made when tackling the large multi-pathed levels. DX:IW will sit on the shelf gathering dust. I can only hope Thief 3 is better executed and offers a more compelling narrative and interaction with the game world.

 

I think game developers are trying too hard to simply emulate movie techniques and story telling, and sacrificing the very medium of games to do so. A game does not have to be completely linear or shallow - you can have open-ended gameplay, intricate detail and environmental interaction and a great story, and also retain a decent game length. It really comes down to how much time and effort you are willing to put into it. A great story is only part of a game's magic. If you, as the player, feel disconnected from the game world, and are simply required to click the mouse here and there to shoot bad guys and open doors, it becomes a monotonous drag no matter how good the story or the voice acting.

 

Personally, I'm not willing to pay full price for a game with will take 5 hours to complete and has next to nothing to offer in terms of replayability. For me, the 'journey' is the experience, and the paths I choose for my character - so the longer it lasts, the more enjoyment I get out of it.

 

When an expansion like DS:Legends of Aranna has already taken me 30 hours to play, and I've yet to finish it - and it was the cost of an expansion - then I find it increasingly hard to stomach paying full price for cut down titles that last a fraction of the time.

 

I'm waiting for Max Payne 2 and Call of Duty to come out on budget release before I'll even contemplate buying them. I'm extremely dubious of another Deus Ex title, I'm increasingly taking a back seat, trying out demos, and waiting for feedback from other gamers regarding game lengths. I just won't pay full price for any games under 10 hours - and even a 10 hour game would have to get excellent ratings and comments for me to consider it.

 

So as far as I'm concerned, I hope the Raven's of the world continue to churn out 20 hour FPS games. Jedi Academy was by no means perfect, to my mind, but in comparison to other titles I got a hell of a lot more enjoyment out of it, both in SP and MP.

 

I'm playing through Far Cry at the moment, and it's great so far. I don't know how long it is, but the vast open levels encourage you to pick your own route and tactics, so for me it has replayability built in. I can snipe from afar, or try to sneak in close and take out bad guys with a machete. I can drive a vehicle and mow down bad guys with a machine gun or simply run them down. This level of chocie obviously alters the gameplay dynamic. I wish there were more games in the Far Cry mould, where the AI's are constantly moving around and sometimes unpredictable in their responses.

 

Down with short games! Bring back classic game length and enjoyment!

[Sivy]

Originally posted by CapNColostomy

Take Max Payne 2 for example. One of the shortest games I've ever played. I thought it was one of the best action games of last year, but once I beat it, I didn't really want to play it anymore.

 

have you done the bonus chapters which you can download from the official site?

[Sabretooth]

Originally posted by StormHammer

Oh man...you know you shouldn't get me started on game length.

 

As far as I'm concerned, an 'average' game length is 20 hours, and I feel like I've got my money's worth. 10 hours is short, and well, anything less than that is just taking the proverbial. To my mind, these shorter games tend to be more linear 'movie-like' experiences, often with lots of cut scenes to tell the story, and often limiting player choice. They are basically a regression to how games originally used to be, and I can't see that as being a good thing.

 

The original Max Payne is a good example of this. I think the game took me about 7 hours (including reloads), and it was completely on the rails from start to finish. I couldn't save people I wanted to save, because they were simply killed in cut scenes. The levels were rat-in-a-maze affairs so you could switch your brain off and just go with the flow. The story was okay, but not exactly ground-breaking - and the city streets were devoid of all life except bad guys, which was completely unrealistic. The only choice I felt I had was which weapon to use for the next gun fight, and whether or not to switch bullet time on. As a result, I've only ever played the game once, and I have no compulsion to play it again.

 

When I play a game, I want to be in full control of my character, and I want to have a choice regarding what happens during the game. Medal Of Honour: Allied Assault was a bit better, because you retain most of your traditional control over your character and some of the levels allow you to exhibit some basic tactics when assaulting an objective. It's still largely linear, though, and static enemy placements don't help. I was just starting to get my teeth into it when the credits started to roll 8 hours after I started playing it.

 

I groan when I read interviews where people like Warren Spector and John Carmack spout rubbish like 'shorter, deeper games' - while at the same time for DX:IW they stripped away half of the character control and development that was available in the original Deus Ex. DX:IW took me about 10 hours to complete (without rushing), but a few hours of that was wrestling with bugs and watching load screens. The 'emergent gameplay' choices were basically meaningless in terms of the overall story, and it didn't feel like a very deep gaming experience to me. By comparison, the original Deus Ex had a more linear story, larger levels, far better environmental interaction and character development, and took me over 30 hours to complete. Deus Ex is one of my all-time favourite games because of the finite control I had over my character's development, and the tactical and moral choices I made when tackling the large multi-pathed levels. DX:IW will sit on the shelf gathering dust. I can only hope Thief 3 is better executed and offers a more compelling narrative and interaction with the game world.

 

I think game developers are trying too hard to simply emulate movie techniques and story telling, and sacrificing the very medium of games to do so. A game does not have to be completely linear or shallow - you can have open-ended gameplay, intricate detail and environmental interaction and a great story, and also retain a decent game length. It really comes down to how much time and effort you are willing to put into it. A great story is only part of a game's magic. If you, as the player, feel disconnected from the game world, and are simply required to click the mouse here and there to shoot bad guys and open doors, it becomes a monotonous drag no matter how good the story or the voice acting.

 

Personally, I'm not willing to pay full price for a game with will take 5 hours to complete and has next to nothing to offer in terms of replayability. For me, the 'journey' is the experience, and the paths I choose for my character - so the longer it lasts, the more enjoyment I get out of it.

 

When an expansion like DS:Legends of Aranna has already taken me 30 hours to play, and I've yet to finish it - and it was the cost of an expansion - then I find it increasingly hard to stomach paying full price for cut down titles that last a fraction of the time.

 

I'm waiting for Max Payne 2 and Call of Duty to come out on budget release before I'll even contemplate buying them. I'm extremely dubious of another Deus Ex title, I'm increasingly taking a back seat, trying out demos, and waiting for feedback from other gamers regarding game lengths. I just won't pay full price for any games under 10 hours - and even a 10 hour game would have to get excellent ratings and comments for me to consider it.

 

So as far as I'm concerned, I hope the Raven's of the world continue to churn out 20 hour FPS games. Jedi Academy was by no means perfect, to my mind, but in comparison to other titles I got a hell of a lot more enjoyment out of it, both in SP and MP.

 

I'm playing through Far Cry at the moment, and it's great so far. I don't know how long it is, but the vast open levels encourage you to pick your own route and tactics, so for me it has replayability built in. I can snipe from afar, or try to sneak in close and take out bad guys with a machete. I can drive a vehicle and mow down bad guys with a machine gun or simply run them down. This level of chocie obviously alters the gameplay dynamic. I wish there were more games in the Far Cry mould, where the AI's are constantly moving around and sometimes unpredictable in their responses.

 

Down with short games! Bring back classic game length and enjoyment!