Anakin Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Im going to get these two threads locked/deleted this is the childish attitude that is putting people off Mods AoTC:TC is having some hard times at the moment and things like this are not helping. At the end of the day its my/our project and we have ultimate control over it. The staff and its files contained our files and ours alone. I will be posting more about this soon, and I will be having word on our forums, do not bring this up on Lucasforums, this belongs on our forums. Anakin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa_0 Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Anakin why are you afriad of a few reskins? They will do no harm to your little TC. Hell it might even help it out some. Also do you think you can stop these people by closing and deleting this thread? I think not. I think it will only cause more harm then good. And from the view theres people who really dont like you. I know you can make everyone like you, theres really no way. But there has to be a way to settle this without conflict. And maybe you can do something to please bothsides. And to Eldritch, yes I dont know how that feels if someone stole my work. But if I made a model and put it out to the public and someone made reskins of it, I would be flatered that they decided to use it. Also maybe they can do something to it that I never dreamed about doing. Look at the Mace Windu reskin to Jolee from KOTOR. Thats one hell of a skin. I guess the main lookout of it is from the creater and how greedy they wanna be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Anakin, locking/deleting the threads of people with legit concerns is not the way to get people involved with AotC TC. Instead, it just drives people away. The fact that my posts and threads were deleted or locked on two seperate occasions was one of the primary motivators behind my vote to drop the OJP/AotCTC partnership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono_Giganto Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Besides, someone would probably start a new thread anyway. But maybe what you could do is allow people to reskin your models, but maybe require them to send a hi-res photo of the completed project to AotcTC first? That way you can decide if it's okay to release, of if it disgraces the original model. (I believe Antizac does something like this with his models. Nice idea.) Or maybe they have to include the original readme? Or something along those lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PR-0927 Posted April 13, 2004 Author Share Posted April 13, 2004 O.K., I have read everyone's posts (except Prime's long one, I was in school). Here is what I now think with a new perspective: 1. Eldritch, you are right, I would be angry if someone changed my mod and made it worse. However, if it was better at all, I would applaud them and let them post it. 2. Anakin, I understand you completely. But, closing threads will not help you at all, I can assure you of that. Actually, most of the purpose of this thread was to get you into it so I could talk to you. Here is the polite thing that I have been meaning to tell you: I would like permission to use any/all of your vehicles and modify them/reskin them. I understand completely if you disagree. I know, my modding sucks, and you probably will say no to the following: You can use my remake of Mars Marshall's Republic Gunship if you want. I know that anyone involved in the AotCTC could have done what I did. But, I stand by one thing that I said: The AotCTC could've done what I did, but they didn't and I did. That's what counts. Anakin, please consider this offer and my request. I respect you greatly because you are taking on such a large and worthy project, and you are definitely better at modding. 3. Zappa_0, I agree that the AotCTC souldn't be mad about a minor reskin. But, I might have done the same if I knew how to make vehicles. Well, there are my comments. I sincerely hope that Anakin reads what I wrote to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by majinrevan O.K., I have read everyone's posts (except Prime's long one, I was in school). Yeah, sorry about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manoman81 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 This post is not meant to demean or place blame on anyone... OK, after reading most of the posts about is going on, I have a few thoughts. I am not in any way a modder, skinner, mapper, etc. I am, however, semi-interested in getting into all of that. I just don't have the time. With that said, is there a thread or some other place where the exact laws/rules are for making mods/skins/maps? Now, I read what Prime put up about the EULA from Lucasarts. I understand that. I also understand what it means to cite/give credit to other people's work. I fully agree that is a have-to/must by law. It's only right. From what I have read and I think I understand, let me put it in a different way: Let's say that a person works for a company that makes a product. That person comes up with a new product for the company. That product is now owned by the company. Therefore, it is protected, by law, under the copyright acts and laws. The question now is: who does permission have to come from in order to use that product? It now comes down to these "Big Ifs": 1) If Mars Marshall made those models for anyone to use and the team from AOTCTC asked him if they may use those models, then (from what I have read) permission must come from Mars Marshall himself. 2) If Mars made those specifically for AOTCTC, then permission must come from AOTCTC for use. I have also seen in the "Readme" files of other mods that authors have said that no one may edit/tweak/whatever any part of there mod and re-release to the public as a completely different mod. From what I have read, a person and edit/tweak/whatever a mod as long as they keep it to themselves. Majinrevan, unfortunately, if #2 "If" is the rule/law, you are in the wrong. Yes, you may have credited Mars for the models, but you did not have the permission from AOTCTC to edit or tweak them. It's kind of like taking Sun Also Rises by Ernest Hemmingway and changing a few names and maybe some of the events and calling it a new book. I hope this is correct and hopefully this will all be mediated soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 did you even do work to the textures? if not it's not a reskin. That might be their problem that you barely changed the skin, thus it just being they're same ship, only modified in the .veh file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Will this childish arguement ever stop? This is the deal: Originally posted by TK-8252 AOTC:TC doesn't want you editing their stuff, 'nuff said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--ZeeMan-- Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by TK-8252 Will this childish arguement ever stop? This is the deal: just for emphasis...but seriously this talk is good and all, but i doubt it's going to change anything. in all honesty, be glad you have your files up in other places and just continue to skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alegis Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by razorace Anakin, locking/deleting the threads of people with legit concerns is not the way to get people involved with AotC TC. Instead, it just drives people away. The fact that my posts and threads were deleted or locked on two seperate occasions was one of the primary motivators behind my vote to drop the OJP/AotCTC partnership. yes indeed I found those locked topics Originally posted by Anakin childish You don't expect to run away from problems and hope they will be solved in your back? If you are so certain from your point of view, you have nothing to fear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keshire Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Jesus Christ on a Pogo stick. If you didn't modify the model why include it in the pk3? Put up the pk3 with the skin and modified npc or vehicle files with a link to the original model. Just make sure the npc file is pointed to your new skin. or... Just make sure to name your pk3 in a way so that the game sees your pk3 after it sees the original then it'll use your files instead of the original. cry, cry, cry, whine, whine, whine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by keshire Jesus Christ on a Pogo stick. If you didn't modify the model why include it in the pk3? Put up the pk3 with the skin and modified npc or vehicle files with a link to the original model. Just make sure the npc file is pointed to your new skin. or... Just make sure to name your pk3 in a way so that the game sees your pk3 after it sees the original then it'll use your files instead of the original. cry, cry, cry, whine, whine, whine. *inserts laughs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by keshire Jesus Christ on a Pogo stick. **** the Jedi Starfighter, I want that mod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by manoman81 The question now is: who does permission have to come from in order to use that product? It now comes down to these "Big Ifs": It does indeed. I'm going to be responding based on the copyright laws of the US. 1) If Mars Marshall made those models for anyone to use and the team from AOTCTC asked him if they may use those models, then (from what I have read) permission must come from Mars Marshall himself. 2) If Mars made those specifically for AOTCTC, then permission must come from AOTCTC for use. Mars Marshall was a member of AotCTC when he created the work, and it was created for their use. As such, the copyright ownership was transferred from Mars to AotCTC. So as a matter of who the original author is (in copyright law), it's AotCTC. Mars can still be credited as the creator, but since AotCTC owns it, it's at their discretion as to what to do with it. I have also seen in the "Readme" files of other mods that authors have said that no one may edit/tweak/whatever any part of there mod and re-release to the public as a completely different mod. From what I have read, a person and edit/tweak/whatever a mod as long as they keep it to themselves. That's true - what you do for your own personal use is different. But when you mass distribute it, then copyright law comes into play. Majinrevan, unfortunately, if #2 "If" is the rule/law, you are in the wrong. Yes, you may have credited Mars for the models, but you did not have the permission from AOTCTC to edit or tweak them. It's kind of like taking Sun Also Rises by Ernest Hemmingway and changing a few names and maybe some of the events and calling it a new book. Exactly. Nice analogy (and good book). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kaan Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 LOL. ****house lawyers are always funny. Read the end user license agreement. Any mod made for JA is property of Lucas Arts, they are the only entity that holds any legal copywrite. I'd like to see AOTC TC try to sue someone for moding files they made for JA and then released them for free to the public for download. It won't ever happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 That section of the EULA is not legally enforceable in the US. It's not possible to sign away your legal rights (in this case copyright for your own work) without 'fair' compensation. If that section was actually true, Lucasarts could just start publishing fan material without permission instead of spending a lot of good money coming up with their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi_Kwiet Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Anikin, quit pulling your weight around. I think since NeoMarz did that stuff, even if he lets you use those modles that he should be the one to say how they are used. I mean c'mon, its all property of Lucasarts anyway. How would you like it if one day they came and told you to quit doing your mod cause they were going to make a game of AOTCTC. If you don't want anyone elce to mod them don't release them. He gave Marz cerdit didn't he. Shesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet Anikin, quit pulling your weight around. I think since NeoMarz did that stuff, even if he lets you use those modles that he should be the one to say how they are used. I mean c'mon, its all property of Lucasarts anyway. How would you like it if one day they came and told you to quit doing your mod cause they were going to make a game of AOTCTC. If you don't want anyone elce to mod them don't release them. He gave Marz cerdit didn't he. Shesh! That's not the point. The ships were basically the same thing, just edited in the .veh file. Thus it's barely a skin job. So he inverted the texture on the JSF, it's hardly a skinning job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 This (I'll say again) childish arguement isn't getting anyone anywhere. Do you people just love going on and on? AOTC:TC is NOT going to change their policy just so someone can release someone else's work with a different veh file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdcfanbill Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 mods and TC's are for the community. If developers dont want ppl using them, they shouldnt release them. If LEC/Raven didnt want modders to mod, they wouldnt have released the mod tools. I think that AOTC should just keep all their files if they dont want people tinkering with them. He did give credit which is more that i can say for a few ppl during the [modname]++ mods of JK2. He didnt blatently rip off work, he tried to improve upon something someone else made. ATOC isnt claiming tomake their own game, they are improving on what Raven released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Originally posted by <-KRT->Dhart LOL. ****house lawyers are always funny. Read the end user license agreement. Any mod made for JA is property of Lucas Arts, they are the only entity that holds any legal copywrite. Actually, that is not entirely correct. As stated in the EULA: "(7) By distributing or permitting the distribution of any New Levels, all creators or owners of any trademark, copyright, or other right, title or interest therein grant to LucasArts an irrevocable, perpetual, royalty-free, sublicensable right to distribute or exploit the New Level by any means or media (whether now known or hereafter invented), and to create and distribute by any means or media (whether now known or hereafter invented) derivative works thereof, and to charge for the distribution of such New Level or such derivative work, with no obligation to account to any creators or owners of the New Level in any manner." Lucasarts does recognize that modders do own the copyright. But they are saying that they have the right to use the mod as they see fit without permission. It is a small difference, but a difference nonetheless. It does mean that the author of the mod (or copyright owner more generally) has the right to say who, other than Lucasarts, alters that mod, which is what this thread is all about. I agree with acdcfanbill that if they really didn't want the mod used they probably shouldn't have released it. But at the same time, I'd like to think that if a modder really doesn't want his work "tampered" with, that people would respect that they have a legal right to support that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sora Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Iam going to laugh my ass off if AOTC trys to sue majinrevan for reskinning the jedi starfighter. Just a personal note, i think the reskinning that he did the starfighter looks and feels better. AOTC is just a bully. Mod or modified means to make something better. if anyone should sue it should be lucas because they took his jedi starfighter. anyway back to my statement. a mod is something to be modified. if aaron smith didnt whant his mod changed he wouldnt have released it. ive seen tons of reskins of many things, why didnt AOTC get on there case? majinrevan only made it better than i dont see an issue as long as he gave credit. so AOTC should sit down and be quiet cause theres nothing they can do. and to quote Tk-8252 "nuff said" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Look deeper. Who's the real bully here? The person who's making things for a spectacular TC purely out of the goodness of their heart, or the person stealing those people's work and re-releasing it as their own against their requests? AOTC:TC is not going to sue some random, as he says he is, "n00b modder." This whole issue is about PCGameMods disabling the file. The issue is: it doesn't matter if he gave credit. The AOTC:TC policy is you DO NOT mod and release their work. Therefore, PCGameMods has done the right thing and is not letting someone re-release AOTC:TC's work. There's nothing else to discuss... they're not changing their policy. Let me quote the readme for the gunship: As you all know, this is exclusive to aotc/tc (see more @ aotctc.com). The AOTC/TC project is a serious project, and I am proud to be working with some of the best talents out there. The staff all strive for perfection, as you will see in these models. This Model is to be not to be modified in anyway.This model is an exclusive to the attack of the clones total conversion for JkII and Jedi Academy( http://www.aotctc.com) if you downloaded this from any other site it was put there without our permission. Please notify us or any of the listed parties if you found this file anywhere but AOTCTC.COM. Thank you,and enjoy! What part of this is not understood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sora Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 do me a favor, contact mars marshall and ask him to post on the forums. lets hear what he says and not a read me. his views might have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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