AOTC:TC - Demo Released

[razorace]

Originally posted by Anakin

You dont like the demo, fine but tell me why in detail how the hell are we sposed to get it right if you dont tell us.

 

- Full documentation is a must. A lot of what Chosen One and Unique have done is subtle stuff that won't be immediately obvious without full documentation.

 

- 7+ stances is exsessive when there's only really enough animation data for 7 stances. I'd drop the extra stances and just allow players to set a custom stance position for whatever stance they are using.

 

- 37+ megs of video files is a waste of space when you don't have models, maps, etc, to back them up.

 

- Stop releasing anything until you can get your house in order and get the models/maps you need for a proper demo. This staggered releasing of "The Demo" is just grinding away all your hype points.

[Mex]

Originally posted by razorace

- Full documentation is a must. A lot of what Chosen One and Unique have done is subtle stuff that won't be immediately obvious without full documentation.

 

- 7+ stances is exsessive when there's only really enough animation data for 7 stances. I'd drop the extra stances and just allow players to set a custom stance position for whatever stance they are using.

 

- 37+ megs of video files is a waste of space when you don't have models, maps, etc, to back them up.

 

- Stop releasing anything until you can get your house in order and get the models/maps you need for a proper demo. This staggered releasing of "The Demo" is just grinding away all your hype points.

 

Was the OJP mod in the demo? It didn't seem like it at all, I was hitting this guy over and over and my saber went through him at least 10 times.

[Anakin]

Well you have all just sealed the coffin on the TC, kiss it good bye.

[Lei Hng Wei]

Originally posted by Michaelmexp

Was the OJP mod in the demo? It didn't seem like it at all...

 

From the description, half of The Last Hope mod seems to have the OJP stuff. Especially their gameplay WIPs that's in beta.

 

Comments OJP guys?

[Jrob]

Anakin

 

What does that mean.

 

You guys just sealed the coffin on AOTCTC.

[razorace]

As the OJP moderator, as far as I know, there's no OJP code in the demo. However, the lastest beta for OJP Basic does have some AotC TC code in it.

 

In addition, the The Last Hope mod has removed its OJP content, as far as I know, since the author didn't like our policies.

 

Finally, AotC TC is dead, at least in its current form. The negative feedback from the demo pissed off the staff and they're now planning on quiting barring radical changes. You can read more about it here.

[zOutlaw]

I am extraordinarily disapointed with the news. The only reason the demo in its current form didn't bode well with most was because it lacked any real content (skins, maps, etc.) Thats what people were expecting to see, and many felt decieved when this was not presented. Had the demo waited until everything was assembled and ready, instead of being released in phases, success would have been more likely.

[razorace]

Additional:

 

Anakin just backstabbed me here. He just, behind my back, changed his mind about quit (after 2 hours of trying to talk them down), didn't give me access to staff forums when he said he would (for the second time), and didn't back me up when I went out on a limb to help his project and his staff.

 

This is the last straw. I also know that he's been claiming to Keshire, in private, that he's been sitting on about 100 mgs of animation code for about 6 months when he had directly told me, ASk, and other members of the community that he only had two small source files.

 

I have log files to back this up this claim from Keshire. We've been trying to keep this private in the hopes that he'd get his act together but it looks like that's not going to happen without some "help".

 

I recommend that everyone simply not deal with him or his project until he releases the source files he now claims to have and straighten out his patern of dishonesty, deception, and backstabbing.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

Reluctantly, I must side with Razor on this.

 

I say reluctantly since I never enjoy seeing a large project with a lot of work put into it in a dying state.

 

But with that said - unfortunately - I can't abide what has been done. Let me say first of all that I would believe Keshire's claims without ever having to see the logs - I know fully well he wouldn't make claims like this up.

To hold back valuable information from the rest of the modding community like this is - in my eyes - inexuseable.

In a sick kind of way, I can kind of understand why he might have done it. As mod leaders, we all push our projects to gain some kind of leverage over the others - cos we believe in it, otherwise we'd work on another project...!

...but I for one don't think my or any project is important enough to use such underhand tactics as these. (Or at least if anybody thinks I ever have, I'd like them to let me know)

 

*edit*

As an aside, let me also say I'm sorry that Keshire is now gonna be right in the middle of some bad feeling for disclosing this info. All I can say is that you did the right thing...

*edit*

 

I think the best thing for the AotC project right now would be for Anakin to do the right thing and hand over the reins. This way, there is still some chance that the hard work that has been put into it by all (including Anakin) can be saved. And if Anakin were to make this last gesture gracefully, I would like to think that Anakin could actually still be part of whatever the end result is - I think he's earned that much personally, regardless of what else he's done.

 

Otherwise, this project is ultimately going to sink into the chasm it is already falling into. There is no doubt about that.

 

I'm sorry if offense is taken by these words, but I think greater offense is taken from the modding community at large who have had valuable info kept from it by a group who - let's face it - had more than enough resources as it was.

 

..and btw - I have no personal interest in this. I'm busy enough leading my own project

I am just interested in seeing a lot of hard work not going to waste. Becuase I've been near that point before. And I know how it feels...

[razorace]

I agree that the most important thing here is to prevent the loss of that hard work and the modder talent behind that. That was what I was in the middle of doing when Anakin backstabbed me on this and that pissed me off.

 

While, I still stand by my statements, I'll applogize for being overly crude.

[Mercenary]

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes in AOTCTC, so I can't comment on that, but as an outsider and curious follower, it's very clear to me that the cause of the backlash for the demo was poor communication. It seems this project has suffered from this for a while. I hope the members will reconsider and put their differences aside and save this TC.

[TK-8252]

One negative response from the community and they kill their mod? Nice dedication!

[Obi_Kwiet]

Sighhhh... Typical. I bet the DF mod would never quit that easilly. I mean you can't expect to releace a demo for a mod that look awesome, and the demo does nothing and have every one love it. Were not being mean and its not like we don't like your mod, but were just saying that a demo that does nothing is not realy a demo. keep it up and releace a SP demo. And if your still gonna quit PLEASE releace that increadible Corrusaunt map anyway!

We know you did alot of work so show it to us! Or, act like your name sake and wine about nothing and quit.

 

Oh and you should refund the 100 bucks that guy donated you too.

[Eldritch]

Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet

Oh and you should refund the 100 bucks that guy donated you too.

I don't know about a refund, but a little return on his investment wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

I'm sure I speak for most of the community when I say, "I realize that the whole AotCTC staff is stressed and dissapointed by the rather underwhelming response the demo got - but that's certainly no reason to pack up and go home."

 

The main critique was content - instead of a staggered 5 part release, wait until you actually have a completed demo assembled, then release it once.

[keshire]

I'd really like to have all this sorted out. And that includes everything. The demo was crap. It was handled like crap. So your response was crap.

 

The main problem is your hording of maps/models/code. Plus your stance towards the modding community as a whole.

 

Get it together or collapse.

[acdcfanbill]

i think, and yea prob doesnt count for much, that aotctc should have waited a few more months to release a demo. i tooled around with it for a little while, som einteresting stuff, but it didnt seem to me like it showcased the work that it looked liek u did. perhaps the 5part demo was simply bad planning, i wouldnt say this was a reason to pack it up tho, just learn from mistakes

[keshire]

Ok I tried to keep this to your forum but then you decided to delete it. So I'll bring this to the publics attention.

 

First and foremost half-truths.

 

When I cracked the animation problem with JKA with the help of Corto and ASK. I also started asking around for the JKO animation data that had been mentioned to be released. The basic consensus was that no-one had it. But the deeper I digged the more signs pointed to the fact that someone had it. Anakin's name was mentioned. But it was stated to me many times by the people involved in the deal that he only recieved two files that weren't very useful. I was told he was grilled many times and he himself stated that he didn't have said data. Even his coder's had no idea. But when I expressed interest in making animations that would benefit him it became an "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine". And he stated that he had a good amount of said data and had been sitting on it for at least 6 months.

 

If this is the case it would definatley have set back a lot of people involved and basically kill the chance of several mods to have profitted from it. As well as been a disservice to the entire community. Now I'm not goign to point fingers or make cliams I don't know about but I thought I would lay out the information for you all to think about. And to show I'm not just spouting bull. Here are the relevant log files.

[keshire]

*clipped out irrelavant parts*

 

keshire:So who exactly gave you the JKO ones

keshire:Gummelt

 

Anakin - Paul - Darth:Yeah

Anakin - Paul - Darth:A while ago

keshire:Did he cough up the entire thing? All the animations?

Anakin - Paul - Darth:I have XSI at home so I got most of them

Anakin - Paul - Darth:I did the whole I got the animations things about 6 months ago

Anakin - Paul - Darth:lol I was talking to James Monroe and Brian Shubat

Anakin - Paul - Darth:The complete lot is about 700mb or so

 

Anakin - Paul - Darth:Now is there any chance we can work together on this, im getting back into editing again and was just about to import all my motion capture stuff I have done over the years

 

keshire:Sure

keshire: I'm always up for helping out

keshire: All my stuff is open source too

 

*different day after talking with his coders*

 

keshire:I wanted to talk about the xsi from Raven

keshire:anyways how much do you have. did you have the full 700 megs

 

Anakin - Paul - Darth:Ive got about 100mb some were

Anakin - Paul - Darth:/just trying to look through all the CD's and backups I have got

keshire:do you recall which anims they were

keshire:attacks cinematics?

Anakin - Paul - Darth:Attacks, run, jump, crouch, one or two others

 

 

keshire:think you can have them by the end of the week?

 

Anakin - Paul - Darth:yeah sure, I need to do a clean up anyhow of all these cds I got another HD so I got 500Gig to play with now 8o|

 

keshire:Did corto and ASk know you had these?

keshire:I'm sur ethey'd like to see them

Anakin - Paul - Darth:ASk knows

keshire:I was under the impression that he thought you only go the two skeleton files?

Anakin - Paul - Darth:well i got some others

keshire:oh did you mention it to them?

keshire:because he was clueless when I grilled him

 

Anakin - Paul - Darth:I had them at the same time I left my last job, so it was me getting all streesed etc etc

 

keshire:Well shoot man. I think Corto's pissed that Raven never got back to him about it

Anakin - Paul - Darth:Now im sure there was something I posted a while back about me having them

Anakin - Paul - Darth:we are talking a long time ago on lucasforums

keshire:the jko animations thread?

Anakin - Paul - Darth:yep

 

keshire:what are unique and chosen coding right now?

Anakin - Paul - Darth:Nothing the MP code is done

[GothiX]

I've been posting over and over at the AOTCTC forums that a demo was a bad idea. Well, it's not my problem anymore.

[Pnut_Man]

This will come off as an insult, but it's the damned truth..

 

Getting worked up over a demo, a demo that no one in AOTC TC should have honestly believed would be a 'success', and then deciding to scratch the whole project because of a bit of 'constructive criticism': childish in my eyes.

 

I've made no real contribution to the modding community, nor did I really help with the mod, so perhaps my input is equal to crap...

 

Still, many of us have waited months in anticipation, remained loyal to the cause even in dark times, and now this...

 

Dissapointment sums it up.

 

PS: Just my word of advise--

 

I know why the decision to not release little bits and pieces of the mod came about, but I feel it was wrong.

 

None of us can ever predict the future, what will be in store for us--computer crash, virus and lose of harddrive, death of a family member, our own death even...

 

If you had, or do release, say--your maps, your models (the things people really have been after), your invalueable animation; all of this online political drama would be forgotten and some decency and respect would be gained to the TC.

[Zappa_0]

Seems things are about the heat up. There seems to be alot of controversy going on here. I also dont think it is good to use underhand methods in projects that are big as AOTC TC and OJP. I seen what happened with the first encounter and alliance between AOTC TC and OJP. OJP got treated poorly and the right factor wasnt there. I dont blame what razorace did and has done now, I would probally have done the same. And Anakin, with the quate from earlier "Well you have all just sealed the coffin on the TC, kiss it good bye." is really childish. Just giving up cause the demo release was done badly? But from the looks of it Anakin has turned over control to the others of AOTC TC and is taking along break that is really needed I think. So will the demo continue to go on schedule?

[Aryyn]

I thought this was a single player mod that would overwrite the whole Sp game with AOTC. Giving it a movie like experience. But i guess myself & 5,000 other people were wrong. Dont get me wrong its good for what it is( another Mp map ) with sabers all messed up. But for 3 years of work good job. I can see you will never have a job in the gaming world. Way to fool me & everybody AOTCTC team!

 

If some of you guys werent such tight asses everybody could have bonded together to make this conversion happen a year ago! Im talking combining everbodys work to one. Using maps & models, code that are already done & some new ones like the vehicles, maps etc. Plus you guys ask for help but you have to have a resume from microsoft or be a so-called well known modder to contribute! Tell me im wrong! You know thats the truth! If people were cool about it you would have had a huge team working constantly doing different things instead of a few people doing a little something a month! Do the community a favor release what you got & move on!

 

As for another matter the thing ive been reading about owning the things you make is really outta hand. Gothicx told me the stuff was copyrighted! LOL That still makes me laugh til this day to refer to the stuff you make as copyrighted. YOUR NAME IS NOT LUCAS YOU DONT OWN IT! NOBODY DOES! WHEN YOU PUT IT OUT FOR DOWNLOAD ITS SHAREWARE! GROW UP PEOPLE! I LOST A REALLY COOL MOD BECAUSE PEOPLE CRYING ABOUT SO-CALLED COPYRIGHTED (LOL) MODELS! YEAH THATS RIGHT I PUT WHOEVERS MODEL IN A COOL MOD! THATS SUCH A CRIME! I SHOULD GET THE DEATH PENALTY! IT HURTS & SLOWS DOWN THE MODDING COMMUNITY WHEN YOU DONT SHARE YOUR WORK! WAKE UP! WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE! MINE IS BETTER THAN YOURS! YOU SEEKING FAME! WHAT IS IT?

 

IVE BEEN AWAY FOR 5 MONTHS I JUST GOT BACK FROM MAKING MODS IN THE NHL HOCKEY COMMUNITY & EVERYBODY IS REAL COOL ABOUT EVERYTHING & THE COMMUNITY FLOURISHES INSTEAD OF TAKING STEPS BACKWARDS! THIS HAS GOTTON TO BE A DISGRACE!

[Kengo]

Aryyn's post was, I think, the first truely moronic post that I could understand anyone getting upset over. The rest that I've seen here have been constructive, honest and basically fair, and saying you will end the mod because of such comments is in my view utterly rediculous.

 

All creative projects take a lot of flack, some deserved and some frankly rude, I think the editors among those here will know the truth in that. I can't imagine what else you were expecting, absolute adoration?

 

It's an amazingly talented team you have, I genuinely hope it all comes to something.

[GothiX]

Aryyn, LucasArts recognises intellectual copyright over files by the original authors. I suggest you read the license agreement.

[Aryyn]

Kengo, You completely missed what i was saying. Im not taking anything away from their talent, which is quite outstanding. I leave it up to you to figure it out for yourself what was said.

 

 

Gothicx, I think its time we bury the hatchet. The problem i have with all that is like i said if it was all shared it would save an enormous amount of time, people would get along & it would open doors for creative modders. It really shouldnt upset people if credit was givin in the readme for whatever mod they did if it was used in another. If you try to corner the mod community your just gonna hurt it more than youll help it, (EXAMPLE) Not everybody knows how to make a really good model but they might know how to make a really good mod using that model or vice versa. Now why is that so bad if it helps the community?