TSL Restoration Project: website up!

[Pavlos]

Just drop the issue, guys. Internet drama makes my head hurt. As Dashus has said, development will continue as it has always done, regardless of the leak.

 

By the way, jaylittle, the 'team' is not the beta team, nor the closed beta team. Team Gizka consists of Aurora, Dashus, forcesaken, JdNoa, Kiwegapa, Razorfish, savvy30039, and Tupac Amaru.

[Q]

Who, me?

 

I've never been censored so far - though unfortunately I think some haven't take one of my posts as intended - I reported my own post, so will see what our wonderful mods think

I thought he was referring to jaylittle. My apologies.

[jaylittle]

Just drop the issue, guys. Internet drama makes my head hurt. As Dashus has said, development will continue as it has always done, regardless of the leak.

 

By the way, jaylittle, the 'team' is not the beta team, nor the closed beta team. Team Gizka consists of Aurora, Dashus, forcesaken, JdNoa, Kiwegapa, Razorfish, savvy30039, and Tupac Amaru.

killerbob admins the servers there. So you might want to consider that she has access to nearly everything regardless of what team she is on. Feel free to look at her accounts profile on TG and check out the group memberships for confirmation. She is for all intents and purposes god of Team Gizka.

 

I thought he was referring to jaylittle. My apologies.

He is referring to sithspecter, who had his post from the previous page modified due to some very nasty content.

[Marius Fett]

This is really beginning to piss me off - especially since most of the people who go on about this have no idea what they're talking about. This isn't directed solely at you, Q, but is a general response to the masses of people who keep talking this crap.

 

For the last time, Team Gizka did not go out seeking any more publicity than any other mod project. They set up a WIP thread here once they had a complete listing of content to restore, and a forum for administrative purposes. Publicity came to them.

 

In '06/'07, some of the original betas put together videos which were put on YouTube. They showed a few bits of cut content, and were received by a lot of people as the only signs of progress along with the bug count... despite the small hole in this theory that content was - and as far as I know, still is - being implemented.

 

I was there, I saw it, most of you didn't. End of, and take your sense of entitlement with you.

 

That is all.

 

Yeah, you tell 'em DI!

*Land of Hope and Glory plays in bacground*

[Darth333]

Well, the website is back online and as Dashus said, the work will continue.

 

There is no point in trying to find out the "guilty" one here and no reason to behave like a lynch mob (I have deleted a few posts making allusion to physical violence and if it continues, warnings will be issued and actions will be taken).

 

Time to move on...

[Malpense]

killerbob admins the servers there. So you might want to consider that she has access to nearly everything regardless of what team she is on. Feel free to look at her accounts profile on TG and check out the group memberships for confirmation. She is for all intents and purposes god of Team Gizka.

 

Killerbob's pretty cool... I don't mind worshiping her.

 

On a more serious note, I'd like to point out that this leak is going to have little, to no affect on the team. Leaks like this happen alot in the development of games; it is unfortunate that it happened for the project, but it happened. The teams moved quickly to fix it, and will continue work.

 

Jaylittle, you seem to be completely assured in your belief that you did the right thing here. And I'm sure you're perfectly content in the belief that it's the internet, and there will be no reprecussions for you. You're probably right in that regard. However, though you are incredibly well spoken (and I'll give you points in that regard, I'm really tired of dealing with N00Bs who can't spell at all) you're still just another person who felt that the mod was THERES and that Team Gizka was keeping it from you. The Team doesn't owe you, or anyone, anything. Community reaction, and by this I mean the community that matters, such as here, and not whiney comments on torrent sites, has been relativly supportive of the Team.

 

I'm sure you're happy that you've got the mod. Try to remember who actually made the thing.

[jaylittle]

I have finished the game. Here is a mini-review covering my thoughts:

 

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=545500#545500

 

Overall I have nothing more to say than: Great work. I am looking forward to the final version more than ever now. Team Gizka has done a great job here.

[Robespierre]

I have finished the game. Here is a mini-review covering my thoughts:

 

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewto...=545500#545500

 

Overall I have nothing more to say than: Great work. I am looking forward to the final version more than ever now. Team Gizka has done a great job here.

 

Are you asking for it? Darth333 tried to keep the lynch mobs at bay, but making a post like that is not the way to stay incognito and let the issue die down.

[Master Shake]

@jaylittle

Your making it sound like there is some conspiracy about team-Gizka being after you, they just want to drop the subject and keep going right along with their work.

 

And to everybody else:

It's just a game! Be happy that team-Gizka is going to even release their hard work to the public.....geese people be grateful!

[Dashus]

I am only too well aware of how things work. I do this kind of thing for a living. Since I didn't download the beta from Team Gizka - there is no IP evidence to draw upon. Team Gizka however does have my IP address due to the fact that I was repeated visitor of their site. They are clearly looking for a scapegoat here and I've obviously become the target. The fact that they canned 10 frigging beta testers really ought to tell you people who the culprits are. Rather than admit they were betrayed by such a large collective of people they have trusted and start a big battle, the team has decided it is better to focus the blame on one external source. Me.

 

Now this is fine. But the fact remains that despite all of the accusations, nothing can be and has been proven. They claimed a variety of felonies, none of which are supported by the small shreds of evidence they have shown. They claim they can prove I downloaded the beta, but that is neither here nor there since I will readily admit to downloading the torrent as soon as I heard about it. I did not however obtain it from a Team Gizka server. I obtained it from a torrent.

 

Now let's be clear. Since this thing exploded, I've received quite a bit of emails, private messages and public criticisms. And these communications have not been entirely composed of flame either. Most of this is unverified, but from what I've been told, quite a few beta testers were privately distributing the beta build to people outside of the team. Alas my method of approach simply wasn't convincing enough to get an even earlier copy. However as I understand it, Team Gizka actually suspects that the torrent release was a coordinated effort not only on the part of the beta testers but of people they had distributed it too as well.

 

I've been told there were a lot of misgivings regarding the apparent slowdowns in the pace of development. Publicly the team was putting on a loyal stoic face but privately there were serious concerns regarding the viability of this mod reaching 1.0c1. A month and a half of delays with very little activity on the part of the devs is all it takes to change a few loyalties it would seem.

 

Of course none of the ex-testers are going to cop to this publicly. Obviously they intentionally tried to shift some of the suspicion to me, just look at the user name they picked for the torrent upload. Prior to this leak, I was the only one who publically made an attempt to obtain the beta, so what better use for that kind of reputation than that of the scapegoat?

 

But truthfully, when you think this whole thing through you have to address the fact that Team Gizka canned ten members of their beta team. Now if I was the person who leaked it and a beta tester gave it to me, then why can ten of them? If I was the person who leaked it and I hacked their boxes to get it, why can ten members of the beta team? What did the other nine do? The fact that Team Gizka is cleaning house is a huge testament to my innocence. Team Gizka has pretty much banned discussion of the leak from their forums. They don't want people digging into the truth here. Because the truth is that the people within the inner circle had deep concerns and were willing to whatever they felt was required to save the project from itself.

 

As it stands now, Team Gizka knows that if those sentiments become public, it will pretty much destroy public interest in their project and people will turn to other modding groups, hoping that they will take up the task of finishing TSLRP. Between the 1.0b8 installer leak and the source code distribution that Team Gizka was already offering for download prior to this, the modding community now has everything they need to continue this project.

 

 

And without beta testers around to test it, what good does it do anybody? Hell can anybody even verify that a new build was actually released? At this point, the Team has proven that they will say anything they deem necessary to seem this incident under the rug.

killerbob admins the servers there. So you might want to consider that she has access to nearly everything regardless of what team she is on. Feel free to look at her accounts profile on TG and check out the group memberships for confirmation. She is for all intents and purposes god of Team Gizka.

 

Any reference to "the team" almost always refers to the core group of modders doing work on the mod. KB isn't really a part of that group (though she has helped a bit with a couple miscellaneous things unrelated to actual coding), so to call her the "goddess" of "the team" is a little ridiculous to be honest.

 

Jaylittle, note that not once, has any member of the team actually accused you of anything. Or spoken about this at all, for that matter (until now obviously.) KB and Ostermana reacted by attempting to check ip logs etc. While I did mention that KB isn't the "goddess" of the mod, she is the server-goddess and as such I would much rather have her (and anyone in her position) be proactive in defending the site/work on the site than not. A DMCA notice was filed with your ISP but I very much doubt anything would come of it. Quite frankly I don't think it's worth the effort. I honestly don't know if they found any damning evidence against you or not; I don't care. We would have preferred the not-fully-working mod not to be released. As stated in my post over at our boards it's quite a disheartening experience to see what you know is inferior code leave your hands without your permission. That's the risk you take by inviting people to help you; some will be less than virtuous. This is yet another reason we don't invite more people to help with the mod.

 

It is very difficult to describe why we don't want to release it to those who enjoy playing, rather than building mods. We look at the current version knowing that is not done. Players tend to say "good enough." Modders tend to say "but it's still crap!" I don't think that bridge of understanding will ever be built.

 

Our cleaning of the beta team is simply an attempt to prevent further leaks. It doesn't speak to either your innocence (if any) or your guilt (if any). We released those that we felt were less "known" to the team. That said, maybe we missed the leaker(s?) and we'll see some subsequent release available. Who's to tell yet?

 

You mention that someone(s?) had (has?) "serious concerns regarding the viability of this mod reaching 1.0c1." I don't think any of the team has ever had that concern. Perhaps the testers have; I don't speak for them. But the core team has never doubted the eventual release of 1.0c1. And, like you say, no tester (ex or otherwise) will likely admit that.

 

The reason we have wiped all mention of it from our forums is that any conversation about it really does no one any good. It'll just degenerate into a lot of pissing matches anyway. It's certainly what's happened here and at the codex (though I expect as much from the emo-geek collaborative that is the codex nowadays ) Our own forum is the only forum we can keep clean of that crap.

 

Given that the mod comes with an updater, you could of course run it and watch it update to 1.0b9 and see if it actually updates. I believe you mentioned over at the codex that you expected non-beta testers to find more bugs than the beta testers ever have. I have no doubt

[SD Nihil]

When it gets released offically I'll download it. Even better than what they currently are things come to those who wait patiently.

[jaylittle]

Thanks for your candor Dashus. I realize that my references to the entity of "team" have varied between the core team and the beta team. That probably makes my posts a bit more confusing at times. To that end, I appreciate the core team's handling of the issue as it relates to me. Yes I'm aware of the updater. I have been hesitant to run it. I presume that if the updater could actually work preventing further leaks wouldn't even be a priority so I just wrote it off once the beta team was gutted.

 

Perhaps somebody else will try it though my gut tells me there won't be much success and I suspect you already know that Anyway thanks for your candor and even more so, the hard work of you and the core team. I hope everything works out in the end.

 

And with that - this will be my final post on this forum. Cest la vie...

[Master Shake]

When it gets released offically I'll download it. Even better than what they currently are things come to those who wait patiently.

QFT

Yup the best things are worth waiting for

[Dashus]

...Yes I'm aware of the updater. I have been hesitant to run it. I presume that if the updater could actually work preventing further leaks wouldn't even be a priority so I just wrote it off once the beta team was gutted.

 

Perhaps somebody else will try it though my gut tells me there won't be much success and I suspect you already know that ...

Depends on your definition of success

[SD Nihil]

Way too much to read. Let me just make sure I got everythin straight.

 

Ok there was this beta that was leaked. And TG thinks this JayLittle is the source where it got disperced to others. Jaylittle feels he is a scapegoat in all of this. I hope that is the synoposise.

 

Sure doesn't help Jaylittle's case he's being blamed for something he says he didn't do by the fact he's now making a review about something that shouldn't be shown yet. Just my opinion.

 

Anyway bo ho there was a leak. Why can't you people if you download it just keep it to yourselves and quiet if you have to play something unfihished. And mods and admins since the majority here just want this situation to be dropped let's just cut a few pages and move on.

 

This is the TG thread specifically made to talk about progress and for others to comment on the progresss. Not for back and forth bickering, conspiracy theories, controvercies, drama, etc. This is not what the thread is for.

 

So I say we back it up a few pages. Others that want to continue it I say give them an ultimatum of action against their accounts if they bring up the issue. Let's move on, clean up the mess from this, and get back to work on the mod. Let's get back to the progress discussion. Things that this thread is made for.

 

I'm tired of the drama. First the whole TE debocal and now this. Geese. Everyone just freaken grow up and just be normal.

 

~snipped~

 

I mean look what we got just in this thread alone. Guy sharing a political view, guy being blamed for leaking a beta, that same guy blaming TG for making the leak themselves, and of course the lengthy pages that few have the time or care to read such long posts.

 

Move on people.

 

Now I do have to add though. I thought modders made mods first for the community they are a part of. And second for themselves. Now it seems to be the other way around now adays. Heck some mod groups don't even want suggestions. Oh well can't change it. Sure wish I knew when this change started.

[TheProphet]

@SD Nihil - I really don't want to take this thread anymore of topic than it already has gotten, but there is something in you're reply that I just can't ignore,

 

I thought modders made mods first for the community they are a part of. And second for themselves. Now it seems to be the other way around now adays. Heck some mod groups don't even want suggestions. Oh well can't change it. Sure wish I knew when this change started.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you meant by this statement, but I don't find it wrong for people to be "making mods for themselves", in fact, I think that should be the priority a person sets when making a mod. At least, for some mods, especially large ones like the Restoration Project or storyline mods. If a person is making a mod, it should be because it is something they want to do, making a mod with the intention of pleasing the public is very difficult, as you cannot please everyone.

 

I was under the assumption that people made mods to share their creativity with the community. Now if this is what you meant by making the mods first for the community they are a part of, then that is alright with me. But I think a person should consider themselves first when making a mod, it is after all, that person's mod and creation, so why is that a bad thing?

 

@Topic - To try to make this fit in some way with the rest of the topic, I understand that this event has made quite a dent in the community, and I am sorry to see it happen. I am a little irked at how violent the community got however, that is not to say I condone any of the actions taken to leak the beta.

 

I do, however, admire the team's perseverance throughout this dilemma, and each of the previous dilemmas they have encountered when working on this mod. That right there wins them points in my book

 

-Doc

[Exile007]

Now I do have to add though. I thought modders made mods first for the community they are a part of. And second for themselves. Now it seems to be the other way around now adays. Heck some mod groups don't even want suggestions. Oh well can't change it. Sure wish I knew when this change started.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong please, but this is what I think:

 

People don't have to mod. People mod games because they enjoy modding, they think it's fun. They don't really owe anything to the community. People wouldn't take the time they do on projects if they were trying to please the world (which I might add is an impossible feat). They wouldn't search for hours to try to accomplish something if they were only doing it for the community. I'm not saying modders are selfish, I'm saying that their own personal interests come first before the community has a say in something.

 

EDIT: Doc half beat me to it.

[TriggerGod]

Ok, I've looked around the TG's forums, and the reason the site and forums were down for some of you is this topic in Help

[SD Nihil]

Thank you for clearing that up Doc and Exile. So the site is moving and once that's done things will be faster aye. Great. Does that mean we'll be able to havepicture siggies, or still just words in our sigs on the TG foums?

[Dashus]

They'll still be banned. It's always been an aesthetic thing.

[The Source]

Jaylittle & Dashus - Personally, I think this mod has gone on forever. Since the whole 'team' has been working long hours and days, there was no doubt that an occassional roadblock would be reached. When dealing with a large group and a massive supporting community, you will no doubt face moments of anxiety and aggrivation. Not everyone is going to be an angel. If I heard that everyone on the team got along, I would think that everyone is taking lessons from the bible. Unfortunatelty, shnite hits the fan. When it comes to pre-releasing the beta version of the mod, and the argument connected to it, I personally believe it should not have been made public. Regardless about who said what first, second, or third, the whole striffe belongs behind closed doors. With all that being said. Lets get back to the main reason why we are here. We want to have fun.

 

"Team-Gizka" has meet both critics and supporters over the years. Regardless about what side you fall on, you are still curious about the end product. Or, you are curious about the magic date of release. It would be nice if Dashus and/or his team would show up here and talk about the mod from time to time. It is a little bothersum to me that they only show up when striffe is in the air. Please come by and visit. Your insights, obsticles, and modding advice are allways interesting.

[TheExile]

 

"Team-Gizka" has meet both critics and supporters over the years. Regardless about what side you fall on, you are still curious about the end product. Or, you are curious about the magic date of release. It would be nice if Dashus and/or his team would show up here and talk about the mod from time to time. It is a little bothersum to me that they only show up when striffe is in the air. Please come by and visit. Your insights, obsticles, and modding advice are allways interesting.

 

Totally agree!!!

It has been said before that if TG would come and talk to the public more often, the patience of the public will be extended.

The majority of the ones who get upset are the ones that have been watching the mods progress from the start of the build- but there are exceptions. I started watching this mod like 6-7 months ago. I still have a lot of patience.

Anyway, TG must know- and they probably know- that the majority of us support them.

[The Source]

Totally agree!!!

It has been said before that if TG would come and talk to the public more often, the patience of the public will be extended.

The majority of the ones who get upset are the ones that have been watching the mods progress from the start of the build- but there are exceptions. I started watching this mod like 6-7 months ago. I still have a lot of patience.

Anyway, TG must know- and they probably know- that the majority of us support them.

I completely agree. Even though some of us are dramatic and critical, we are still supporting the group in our own special way. Over the past four years, I have challenged, poked, and roared dramatically. When they first arrived to LucasForums, they helped to bring the cut content to our attention. If it wasn't for curious modders such as those on LucasForums, we would may have never have known about the cut elements. I am sure there would be some questions, but there would not be an in-depth examination on the pieces.

 

Our last official W.I.P. update at LucasForums was in October 22, 2007. Even though they have an official forums and website, I personally like coming here for the progress news and updates. I'm a LucasForumite.

 

Dashus has only posted 105 times. What does this mean? I do not really know. An active forumite is closing in on 1,000+ posts. Since they have been working on the mod for four years, you would think they would visit the community in which they participate with. I am only speculating, but if he truly wanted our support, Dashus would visit more often. Pull up a chair. Let us get to know him. I think some of the anxiety and impatience would go away. Not all of it, but maybe some of the impatience.

 

-------

 

For the geeks: 105 Posts over a four year period averages 26.25 posts per month. That is still alot.

[Sir Vougalot]

My thoughts on the situation with JayLittle: Team Gizka, unfortunately, these things are to be expected when undertaking a project like this, and there's not much you can do about it, especially when you don't own the material you're working with. As I'm sure you know, all of this material is copyrighted to Obsidian, which is why you won't be distributing this mod for any profit, as I'm sure you are also aware.

 

That being said, I think the thing about you pulling the plug on JayLittle's Internet connection if he's found guilty or what ever it was (I didn't fully follow that part) is a little extreme and, quite frankly, illegal. You don't want to travel down that road because you could get yourselves into loads of trouble.

 

I'm afraid there's not much you can do about this situation but say, "Oh, darn it!" and move on. I'm sorry that this has happened, I really am, but that's the truth of the matter.

[EnderWiggin]

I'm going to try to be as patient as possible with you all.

 

 

Sure doesn't help Jaylittle's case he's being blamed for something he says he didn't do by the fact he's now making a review about something that shouldn't be shown yet. Just my opinion.

Actually, it doesn't affect his case at all. He claims he torrented it - which is extremely possible, and not at all condemning. So your opinion, in this case, is wrong.

 

Now I do have to add though. I thought modders made mods first for the community they are a part of. And second for themselves. Now it seems to be the other way around now adays. Heck some mod groups don't even want suggestions. Oh well can't change it. Sure wish I knew when this change started.

You want to know when this change started? The beginning of time. The whole point of mods (forever and always) is to modify the game so it's more to your (the modder's) liking. And then, if the community would also like to partake of the work that the modder has done, so be it. Modders are supposed to help the community, but mod for themselves.

 

And mod groups shouldn't necessarily take suggestions. TBH, if I was in a mod group, I would have an idea of what I want. If you suggest something, and I think it's good, then ok. But if I think it's crap, then bug off.

Jaylittle & Dashus - Personally, I think this mod has gone on forever.

 

I would tell you what I personally think, but I'm not a big fan of infraction points.

"Team-Gizka" has meet both critics and supporters over the years. Regardless about what side you fall on, you are still curious about the end product. Or, you are curious about the magic date of release. It would be nice if Dashus and/or his team would show up here and talk about the mod from time to time. It is a little bothersum to me that they only show up when striffe is in the air. Please come by and visit. Your insights, obsticles, and modding advice are allways interesting.

 

What a useless post. Dashus may do what he pleases. He has his own forums, his own team, and his own project. He doesn't do this because he wants to be a socialite. His priorities do not include pointless discussions and millions of 'when is the release date?' and 'where can I download?' posts.

 

Totally agree!!!

It has been said before that if TG would come and talk to the public more often, the patience of the public will be extended.

The majority of the ones who get upset are the ones that have been watching the mods progress from the start of the build- but there are exceptions. I started watching this mod like 6-7 months ago. I still have a lot of patience.

Anyway, TG must know- and they probably know- that the majority of us support them.

 

With all due respect, **** the patience of the public. It's TG's work, it's TG's project, it's TG's prerogative. I've been watching this mod for years. I can wait. They want to release a quality mod. I understand the feeling of wanting it to look perfect when it is released. Let them do it already.

 

I completely agree. Even though some of us are dramatic and critical, we are still supporting the group in our own special way. Over the past four years, I have challenged, poked, and roared dramatically. When they first arrived to LucasForums, they helped to bring the cut content to our attention. If it wasn't for curious modders such as those on LucasForums, we would may have never have known about the cut elements. I am sure there would be some questions, but there would not be an in-depth examination on the pieces.

 

Acting like a jackal to the team is not supporting them in a 'special' way. Just clarifying.

 

Our last official W.I.P. update at LucasForums was in October 22, 2007. Even though they have an official forums and website, I personally like coming here for the progress news and updates. I'm a LucasForumite.

Go to the website that is dedicated to TG, or quit complaining. The world does not exist to serve you.

Dashus has only posted 105 times. What does this mean? I do not really know. An active forumite is closing in on 1,000+ posts. Since they have been working on the mod for four years, you would think they would visit the community in which they participate with. I am only speculating, but if he truly wanted our support, Dashus would visit more often. Pull up a chair. Let us get to know him. I think some of the anxiety and impatience would go away. Not all of it, but maybe some of the impatience.

 

Two different points here: Dashus doesn't need to come here - he's got his own site and project and forums. That's the community he participates in. The amount of posts he posts here are irrelevant. Svosh, IIRC, only posted like 400 times and was one of the best modders around when I joined LF.

 

And on the other hand, perhaps he doesn't want your support. Perhaps he would rather you just shut up, and this is his polite way of telling you - by ignoring you.

 

Plus, why waste the time? IMHO, I'd rather he work on fixing bugs in the time that he would be spending talking to you for 15 minutes a day.

 

_EW_

 

 

BTW, when I've said Dashus in this post, most of the time I've really been referring to the TG team in general.