Emperor Devon Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Originally posted by Korfredonn You seem to get me wrong, I didn’t meant to tell you that you are wasting your time….etc, I meant that if there is nothing after life and you just cease to exist after you die so this life is realy a waste of time. Don't be ridiculous. Since there's no life after this one, we should make the best of it. Think of it this way. You have a billion dollars, but it will get taken away from you in a week. Are you going to spend and invest it all, or just let it sit around and lose it in a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Such a long topic for me, in particular religion. I believe in science, and... Science != Religion As for things like reincarnation, I think it's mostly to make people feel more comfortable before they die, almost in the catagory of heaven. This sort of thing can also be used to keep the large, mostly uneducated masses in line, like how you can be 'demoted' to a lesser being in certain Eastern religions, or be sent to a fiery, horid pit of death and torture by a god who 'loves' you. As for things like cell memory, think of how when you erase a file on a computer, it's still there, and, since we are all just 'chemical programs' in near every sense, I say 'why not?'. So, to answer this thread's question, we live to die and die to live, our lives themselves are an anomoly, and therefore there can be no set answer, mostly because there is no answer if there is no question... As for after death, see my signature ***edit*** I do not believe in reincarnation in the sense that once you die, your soul finds another body...For me every human being is unique and when your time in this life is over, then it's over (though what happens with your body afterwards is something else ). Until there are around 9 Billion living people on Earth, the human genetic code only allows for that many combinations... :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Good point! I have noticed a fault in reincarnation... What about all the new people? Right now, there are about 9 billion people, but in the past there were 1 billion. I thought reincarnation dealed in rebirth, not the creation of new souls. @Darth333, I think you would fit into the category "agnostic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneDragon Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Well, I guess I have to wait till I die to answer that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MdKnightR Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by Emperor Devon Good point! I have noticed a fault in reincarnation... What about all the new people? Right now, there are about 9 billion people, but in the past there were 1 billion. I thought reincarnation dealed in rebirth, not the creation of new souls. @Darth333, I think you would fit into the category "agnostic". Actually, I think it is more like 6 billion now, but you made your point. AND I think you are correct about Darth333. At one time I was agnostic. jmac7142 - I really like your signature! George Carlin is great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallucination Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I'm a little late to this thread, but I'll still throw in my one cent (I'm too cheap for two ). I don't believe in reincarnation 'cause I think it was made up to keep folks inline.Something about how all the folks say "You won't get reincarnated 'cause you don't believe in (insert deity here). And then if we get into Heaven afterwards, why not just send us there directly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotélēsticus Posted July 26, 2005 Author Share Posted July 26, 2005 Good point! I have noticed a fault in reincarnation... What about all the new people? Right now, there are about 9 billion people, but in the past there were 1 billion. I thought reincarnation dealed in rebirth, not the creation of new souls. The purpose of reincarnation is to purify your soul, thus it's about the end of the soul's journey in this world, it has nothing related to its begins, thus reincarnation does not deal with the creation of souls (as you did say), and the omni-creator will keep creating souls and this new souls will reincarnate and so on… So reincarnation does not deny the creation of new souls, and for this, the increasing in population is not an objection to reincarnation. And then if we get into Heaven afterwards, why not just send us there directly? Heaven is a place of purity, joy and holiness thus if you have a bit of darkness you wont be able to access it, and we know that Adam was exiled from heaven because of one sin, so how could you enter it with a lot of sins? In reincarnation, the concept of life is familiar to a game, like in KotOR, when you start the game neutral (has a bit of light and a bit of darkness) and then you can became pure evil(dark side) by doing evil deeds or pure good(light side) by doing good deeds, and every choice has its consequences, by reaching the greatest limit of good you become a jedi and embrace the light side fully, while you become a sith and embrace the dark side of the force if you reached the greatest limit of evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallucination Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 ^^^ good point, but if God is all powerful then he shouldn't of given opportunity to sin. Or he could've made us unable to sin. Its a little cruel to judge us by Adam. One guy isn't a good representation of humanity now. (but it was back then 'cause he was 50% of the population) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Korfredonn The purpose of reincarnation is to purify your soul, thus it's about the end of the soul's journey in this world, it has nothing related to its begins, thus reincarnation does not deal with the creation of souls (as you did say), and the omni-creator will keep creating souls and this new souls will reincarnate and so on… So reincarnation does not deny the creation of new souls, and for this, the increasing in population is not an objection to reincarnation. Then, what created the new souls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Then, what created the new souls? No one ever said religion makes sense, think along the lines of pretty much anything in nearly any religious text; you'd just have to pick a page and read on to find lies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I think there are two important premises which must be taken into account with religion. #1: If you accept the idea of a God who is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, then anything he does requires no explanation. We as humans are none of these things and so cannot comprehend said deity. They *Can* create the world in 6 days, because they have all power and knowledge of everything. #2: Many religious texts must be interpreted. The Bible, will, for example, give a distinctly pro-Israelite version of events, say, in Egypt. Also, the texts may well involve simplifications for Mr. and Mrs. Dumb to understand. So, with the 6 days thing, this may simply have been a simplification of the order of evolution of life, which follows this pattern roughly, in order for the majority of the population to understand. Also, many texts, especially those like the New Testament of the Bible and in that the Book of Revelations, contain many many layers of meaning, and can easily be misread due to not entirely accurate translation. Words in ancient languages (in particular in Greek) can have several quite diverse meanings. Trying to read the page and instantly get what the writer was driving at is, IMO, slightly bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rok_stoned Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 darth333 I believe that it's your actions and thoughts that make you better, not the number of prayers you recite, the way you dress or what you eat...those are just traditions, customs developped by humans to make them feel closer to the "divine" IMHO. so true however i believe that the prayers do affaect your position in the afterlife or the rank* you recieve after reincarnate. but they only have affect if they affaect your actions, thereby changing who you are as a person * the belief of reincarnation includes how you behave in life what you will be reincarnated as ie if you kick a hobo twice a day just for fun you may end up a rat, or worm however if your devout to your religion or a good person you will be made manifest in the vessel of a new human life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Kenobi Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 #1: If you accept the idea of a God who is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, then anything he does requires no explanation. We as humans are none of these things and so cannot comprehend said deity. They *Can* create the world in 6 days, because they have all power and knowledge of everything. Yep, I agree BUT what is a day to a god? Do they view time as linear? That is a concept only we thought up. Maybe it actually took GOD a thousand years to create the earth??? I personally believe that the world was created by him, BUT all that has happened since man came on the scene is of his design not GOD's. I think this due to the evidence of the various stages of evolution, the fact we still have a "tail bone" stub. Just several things . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotélēsticus Posted July 27, 2005 Author Share Posted July 27, 2005 good point, but if God is all powerful then he shouldn't of given opportunity to sin. Or he could've made us unable to sin. Its a little cruel to judge us by Adam. One guy isn't a good representation of humanity now. (but it was back then 'cause he was 50% of the population) as I said before that according to some religions that believe in reincarnation: "all persons at first were stars in the world of light but fell from the firmament through disobedience and sins. The material world…etc" thus all persons are sinners not just Adam although it has been told that Adam is the first sinner, the holy words should not be literalized, you must read the underlines to understand meanings lies within it, the story of Adam might be an example for everyman who had make mistakes that (it will be stupid to tell thousands of stories about all the sinners), thus he told us the story of one man (the first man) without mentioning his children's sins. Then, what created the new souls? God, he didn’t create some souls and suddenly stopped, he keep creating new souls for he is the creator, and he won't be a creator if he didn’t create. Yep, I agree BUT what is a day to a god? Do they view time as linear? That is a concept only we thought up. Maybe it actually took GOD a thousand years to create the earth??? Sure, before god created our world, concepts such as time and place weren't exist yet, when he create the world he create this rules, that’s why they say that god is everywhere (he is above place) and god had no beginning nor end (he is above time), according to the Koran:" A day in the kingdom of god measured in thousand of thy years" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevanA4 Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 *wonders where the topic has gone* um I thought this tread was about reincarnation NOT religion plz get back on topic. but weither or not reincarnation exists or no is an impossible question to answer It is solely based on your beliefs and it will never be proved or disproved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by General Kenobi Yep, I agree BUT what is a day to a god? Do they view time as linear? That is a concept only we thought up. Maybe it actually took GOD a thousand years to create the earth??? I personally believe that the world was created by him, BUT all that has happened since man came on the scene is of his design not GOD's. I think this due to the evidence of the various stages of evolution, the fact we still have a "tail bone" stub. Just several things . *shrugs* God gave us all free will. Without free will, we wouldn't truly be alive. That's why there is sin and violence in the world, IMO. Also, the tail bone stub you describe - well, why do we need such highly advanced brains? Why do we need fingernails? It doesn't really matter, IMO EDIT: JG, I only saw places where words had run together, thanks to my spacebar having just developed a problem of sticking - all the words are spelt correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevanA4 Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 ok you were complaining about peoples spelling and grammer earlier but I counted 5 spelling and grammer errors in your post so don't complain now back on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rok_stoned Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Yep, I agree BUT what is a day to a god? Do they view time as linear? That is a concept only we thought up. Maybe it actually took GOD a thousand years to create the earth??? not true thats like saying a 8 foot tall mans meter is larger than a 4 foot persons meter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Kenobi Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Originally posted by PsionicBeverage not true thats like saying a 8 foot tall mans meter is larger than a 4 foot persons meter No it's not like that at all I'm saying "we" humans thought up time, the clock, the modern calendar, etc. All for methods of measuring time and days. God did not create the concept of time nor days. Both are concepts of man. We didn't even start following our modern calendar until very recent human history when you look at the human span in history. A day in ancient times was not measured 24 hours a day 7 days a week. The tail bone is a hold over I would imagine of time when we were more closely resembling primate mammals of our type. Also the same reason pythons and boas have legs and toes still. Holdovers "*shrugs* God gave us all free will. Without free will, we wouldn't truly be alive. That's why there is sin and violence in the world, IMO." Well yes he did then I feel he left the worlds running to us. Free will = do it yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rok_stoned Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I'm saying "we" humans thought up time, the clock, the modern calendar, etc. All for methods of measuring time and days. God did not create the concept of time nor days. Both are concepts of man. We didn't even start following our modern calendar until very recent human history when you look at the human span in history. A day in ancient times was not measured 24 hours a day 7 days a week. then how come we said he created the world in seven days if he didn't measure the time taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChAiNz.2da Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Originally posted by PsionicBeverage then how come we said he created the world in seven days if he didn't measure the time taken? *peeps in* Where'd the topic go? Before everyone starts getting 'heated' over literalisms of the Bible, you should realize that alot of things get 'lost' whenever something is translated from one language to another... The Bible was written over a period of approximately 1500 years in three languages - Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Therefore, English (King James or other) is not one of the original languages of the Bible. Therefore, all English translations of the Bible will suffer somewhat from differences in languages, differences in idiomatic expressions, etc. Different translations tend to aim for either word for word (more difficult to understand) or thought for thought (less "accurate") representation of the original language. Most translations (including the King James version) substitute "inaccurate" translations of certain words so that the thought will be understandable to our culture. For example, Revelation 2:231 contains the Greek word nephros, which literally means "kidneys." However, the English sounds pretty weird when Jesus says, "...I am He who searches the kidneys and hearts..." The word refers to the deepest emotions and affections of man,2 and is more understandable in our culture when translated as "thoughts" or "mind." Why did the translators of the King James Bible translate it into the common English of the time? They said that they wanted to make a version that everyday common folks (of the time) could understand. Obviously, King James English no longer qualifies as being the common language of our time, and would probably be rejected by those very translators if they were alive today. source Now to this day, I've probably been called everything except religous.. so don't go labeling me "pious" or anything (or a heretic)...anywho... wasn't this thread supposed to be over your thoughts on "Reincarnation"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevanA4 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 ok that is 3 different mods and me complaining about you not staying on topic plz stay on topic note: do not discuess this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 #1: If you accept the idea of a God who is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, then anything he does requires no explanation. We as humans are none of these things and so cannot comprehend said deity. They *Can* create the world in 6 days, because they have all power and knowledge of everything. You sound, in the words of Allen Ginsberg, like a "lackey of the right-wing establishment" in that beliefs do not require explanation . As for an omnipotent, all-knowing god, I feel that people like to separate good and evil to please and satify their selfish little minds, which take pleasure in the fact that there is a force of good in the world, who is stronger than the inevitable force of evil in it. So in effect, why can't 'God' be evil as well, and yet be good in the world as well? In an exerpt from my favorite story of all time, where there is one, all-powerful leader, who turns out to be 'God', the leader takes pleasure in saving citizens, but only for the purpose of manipulating and killing them, and that version of 'God' is the enigma that most won't even consider. But I don't believe in 'God', so he does not exist in my zillionth of reality... And that's my cent (I'm cheap ) ***Edit*** wasn't this thread supposed to be over your thoughts on "Reincarnation"? [5-yr-old whining]But most Western religions have a larger expanse of crap (no offense) to make fun of and debunk though... [/5-yr-old whining] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 God, he didn’t create some souls and suddenly stopped, he keep creating new souls for he is the creator, and he won't be a creator if he didn’t create. So far he/she hasn't created anything for ? years; when's the last time he/she miracled food, clean water, and medical supplies into a 3rd-World country! So now he/she likes grunge rock and drugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotélēsticus Posted July 30, 2005 Author Share Posted July 30, 2005 So far he/she hasn't created anything for ? years; when's the last time he/she miracled food, clean water, and medical supplies into a 3rd-World country! So now he/she likes grunge rock and drugs i didnt understand what's the point, but he is creating something maybe outside our galaxy,new souls,new people.... wasn't this thread supposed to be over your thoughts on "Reincarnation"? agree, although reincarnation is related to religion but lets get back to the topic. note: you can discuss religion but only in the category attached with riencarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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