True Sith

[Darth Xenus]

People, the true Sith are the original sith lords: those who became the leaders of the Sith species and used the dark side. The original Rogue Jedi who became the 'Lords of the Sith' and then became the same species over time.

 

To whoever said true Sith are extinct:

 

Remember that everybody 'knew' that the Sith Lords had been extinct for 1000 years before Palpatine was revealed...

 

Palpatine is not the true Sith either, nothing like it.

 

Jacen is not a true Sith either, yeah he's becoming a Sith but he isn't a true Sith.

[Lord Foley]

Not a big Revan fan, he abandoned true power.....foe what? huh? The love a dang jedi brat(bastila). Malak knew power. Hell had he not underestimated Revan on The forge, The Sith would have ruled much sooner. Revanwas a fool who turned away from power, to embrace weakness, he then used the excuse of "true" sith, to run away from his new found weakness. True sith have been extinct since 5000bby. Sith to date are just followers of a belief and ideal. Not a huge Vader fan either, if I start on him ho, this page will go on forever lol.

 

He only turns to the light if you make him. And Malak was a weak coward. Even with the power of the Star Forge he was no match for the master.

[Kelborn Ordo]

All the sith spieces were destroyed by exar kun in his genocide of the race so he could live as a spirit inside his temples on yavin 4.theres noway its going to be of the sith species.i think its going to be revan who falls back to the darkside and becomes a sith lord so he can use the dark side power to destroy the "true sith".any way kreia states that the sith is a belief not a species.

[RedHawke]

All the sith spieces were destroyed by exar kun in his genocide of the race so he could live as a spirit inside his temples on yavin 4.theres noway its going to be of the sith species.

If the writers of KotOR III want to have the Sith species appear they will.

 

The so called EU descriptions of the story of the Sith seem to be a far cry different than what they were described to be back in the early and mid 90's. Everything people know of the Sith comes from Dark Jedi/Dark Sith stories and legends, and we all know Dark Jedi and Dark Lords of the sith never lie!

[PoiuyWired]

 

Jacen is not a true Sith either, yeah he's becoming a Sith but he isn't a true Sith.

 

Yes I know Siths tend to lie and what not, but ... well go read up on the weird old bird lady jedi/sith and what Lumiya says about her and things, I would not say more as anything more might be spoilers.

 

It seems like Ture Sith can also mean a level/condition of Sith follower rather than the red/pink skinned species.

 

Btw, we don't know that all Sith species are dead, cause some might have scattered around the worlds when their invasion fails, and some still exist on and around their homeworlds. We would assume old Republic people do not do genocides. Granted, most of them on Yavin 4 are gone, most.

[HerbieZ]

Was'nt Ludo Kressh supposed to be a true sith, im pretty sure it was one of the sith lords buried on Korriban. I remember reading about it i think on wookiepedia.

[Prime]

Ewok.

[RedHawke]

Ewok.

Now that's scary!

 

Personally I want to see a Sith Jawa... bow before the True Dark Lord!

[Vaelastraz]

I'm all for a Evil Twilek chick as a Sith Lord.

[Prime]

I'm all for a Evil Twilek chick as a Sith Lord.

What, like this one?

 

[Commander Obi-Wan]

A Sith Twi'lek would be cool.

[ExileRevan]

I voted alien because, all weve seen is Human, Human, Human, Human... oh and a 90 year old Human. I'd like to see a sith lord that we havent seen before a Muun like Darth Pleaguise the link in my siggy has a picture of one.

[Prime]

I'd like to see a sith lord that we havent seen before a Muun like Darth Pleaguise the link in my siggy has a picture of one.

Just what we need: A sith lord that likes like a cartoon character that has been run over by a truck.

[Jae Onasi]

^

 

I don't know, that sort of describes Sion.

[Hallucination]

^Sion is more of a guy who loves his sword collection a little too much.

[mimic666]

I voted alien because, all weve seen is Human...

Uh Humans are Aliens also. I have to choose "Other".

[Darth Krayt]

The true Sith are this:

 

1. Malachor V was once occupied tens of thousands of years ago by another, older order of the Sith. Kreia refers to them as "the True Sith" on multiple occasions throughout the latter phases of the game. Malachor is located right at the edge of the Unknown Regions, per The New Essential Chonology and the game's dialogue.

 

2. Said Sith, whoever they were, then retreated back into the Unknown Regions at some undocumented point during the "interregnum" prior to the events of KotOR II.

 

3. The First Sith Empire is founded in the year 6,900 BBY, following the Hundred-Year Darkness by renegade Dark Jedi, who discover the planet Korriban and adjacent space. The empire comes nowhere near the Unknown Regions in territorial proximity, and lies far distant from Malachor V itself.

 

 

4. It is explicitly mentioned that these Sith were not related to the so-called "True Sith," and that the retreat of the "True Sith" into the Unknown Regions occurred long before the Great Hyperspace War.

 

5. Clearly, then, this order of Sith cannot be related in any way, shape, or form to the later Sith Order of Marka Ragnos and Ludo Kressh, as the game carefully delineates. Kreia takes very specific pains to differentiate between the Sith Order as it existed during the past 2,949 years, and the "True Sith," who are many, many times older. We do not know much else beyond these very specific pieces of data, including the extent of their empire, but their construction of the Trayus Academy is unequivocally established in the game.

 

This isn't from wookiepedia, but from the Force.net and Star Wars Hyperspace!

 

They're two completely different orders.

 

The "True Sith" existed tens of thousands of years before the so-called First Sith Empire, which is the 6,900 BBY Korriban-and-Ziost political entity founded by the exiled Dark Jedi after the Battle of Corbos. The second KotOR game establishes that the Trayus Academy was built by the True Sith "tens of millennia ago," and that they "retreated deeper back into the Unknown Regions" (or words to that effect) at some point between then and the Tales of the Jedi/KotOR era.

 

Malachor V is likewise described by Kreia as "sitting right on the doorstep of the True Sith Empire's throneworlds," out in the UR. As for the True Sith themselves, we have only this one game at present, but the rough timeframe of their existence coincides awfully well with the Killik disappearance, the Rakatan collapse, and the Maw/Centerpoint constructions...and in the game, we're never at any point told exactly why the True Sith retreated back into the UR; only that it happened untold millennia earlier. Some unrevealed cosmic war betwixt them and the Celestials, possibly, or another reason altogether?

 

 

cyris8400 posted:However this fits into any theories or contradictions, the True Sith Empire cannot be in the same area of space that is called the Unknown Regions in the time of the Big 3. It's only location can be in the general area of Helska, Sernpidal, Lorrd, and Bonadan. I personally don't think different locations of the Unknown Regions at different times contradict anything, as they've obviously done some exploring during that time gap.

 

 

It is. Check out the map in The New Essential Chronology -- it clearly places Malachor V not far from Rakata Prime, both of which sit right smack on the borders of the UR as it exists in Luke Skywalker's era. That said, there is an interesting tidbit that I recently discovered within Kreia's dialogue during a playthrough of the game's ending, which reveals something fascinating:

 

Exile: And Bao-Dur -- and the droids?

 

Kreia: Their paths are unknown to me. Even the small one -- who waits for you outside this place -- I sense it has one last journey for you. You must go where Revan did, into the Unknown Regions, where the Sith, the true Sith, wait in the dark for the great war that comes.

 

Exile: And Revan? He came here, was here. What happened to him?

 

Kreia: It is because he remembered what lay buried here -- this place, its teachings. It paved the way to Korriban, the remnants here. And he came because Malachor, like Korriban, lies on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait for us, in the dark.

 

Exile: But we've fought the Sith.

 

Kreia: Have we? You thought that the corrupted remnants of the Republic, the machines spawned by technology that Revan led into battle were the Sith? You are wrong. The Sith is a belief. And its empire, the True Sith Empire, rules elsewhere. And Revan knew that the true war is not against the Republic. It waits for us beyond the Outer Rim. And he has gone to fight it, in his own way. He left the Ebon Hawk and its machine behind, for he knew he would not need them. And, like you, he knew he must leave all loves behind as well, no matter how deeply one cares for them.

 

 

Thus, considering the NEC's map-placement of Malachor V at the edge of the Unknown Regions, Kreia's dialogue concerning the True Sith's retreat therein, and Korriban's location all the way across the galaxy near its extreme opposite edge, it's clear that the True Sith evidently had some nominal contact with the latter planet -- else where would the Sith species-name have come from, after the exiled Dark Jedi first encountered them? They wouldn't have borne the virtually the exact same name as the True Sith if there wasn't some hypothetical connection between them, likely at some point in the distant past.

 

But wait:

 

Having recently sifted through the Tales of the Jedi RPG Companion for another, different project, I came across something that seems to have totally gotten lost over time. In the sourcebook, the age of the Force-wielding Sith Order is given as "over 100,000 years old."

 

Now, of course, this was written in 1995-96, long before Dan Wallace's retcon of the Jedi-derived Sith Order's age, and KotOR II's establishment of the True Sith Empire. However, there are a couple of other snippets that are in there, too: the ancient "Sith warlord-king" Adas conquered his homeworld around "two dozen millennia ago" -- this being two dozen millennia prior to the "present-day" of the TotJ narrative being given by Master Ood. Which would place this planet's subjugation at right around...29,000 BBY. shock thinking

 

Then, we have another interesting entry on the Sith library-temple installation on Krayiss II (where Andur Sunrider's grandfather Jev perished) -- it was originally built circa 14,000 BBY. Ancient Sith spirits reside within, and (among other things) entrap a female Jedi named Vara Nreem during the events of the Great Sith War.

 

Of course, there's the aforementioned Killik Sith, who ended up roughly near Endor, on another completely distant arm of the galaxy, around 30,000 BBY. Their reach was long indeed if they were building tombs all the way out there.

 

Like the Malachor V Trayus Academy construction-dating, such estimates are sacrosanct for the purposes of the canon, and thus we might very well be looking at further examples of ancient True Sith personages, architecture, and artifactery, between Adas, the Killik Sith Lord, and Krayiss II. It's very possible that the Jedi Order (or even the "Jedi Bendu"?) had a number of run-ins with the True Sith, and thus some records of their existence and passage. It could be that the final retreat of this order occurred at some point after 14,000 BBY, with the "First Sith Empire" getting established some 7,100 years later by escaped Jedi, who would then have their very first encounter with the indigenous Sith species left behind on Korriban and elsewhere in that region.

 

Some devolved, quasi-degenerate remnants of their True Sith forbears, perhaps? Or is there another explanation for how an utterly isolated species -- purportedly with near zero astrographical and FTL capability to speak of -- on the far side of the galaxy bears EXACTLY the same name some seven millennia after a similarly-named group vanished?

 

Kreia's dialogue seems to hold the key:

 

"It paved the way to Korriban, the remnants here. And he came because Malachor, like Korriban, lies on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait for us, in the dark."

[T.Nova]

Whoah... thats an overwhelming amount of information there Darth Krayt. I'm suprised at the sheer amount of content the SW universe has. Guess I'll have to brush up on my EU. Anyhow I'm still left curious about Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus. There wasn't really enough backstory to the villans in TSL. Which left me somewhat dissapointed. I'm curious did Darth Nihilus actually die when you defeat him? I remember some form of energy leaving his corpse when he died, although I can only remember vaguely what happened to him.

 

I would happen to think that this new bad guy is going to be evil beyond words. No gender, no species no words to describe it. Just laying eyes on it would send shivers of darkness down your spine.

[Darth_Terros]

The true sith are the original sith species *the red guys*.

 

The sith empire actually dates way back to 28,000 bby and was led by King Adas it was at this point when the rakatan showed up and battled the sith *who won* the sith then moved out and conquered other planets *like Ziost* one of them most liekly being malachor V.

 

When kreia refers to older sith she means the sith before exar kun when they were still a species and not humans under the name sith.

[Diego Varen]

I think the True Sith are Alien, because as Darth_Terros has said, they are the red guys.

[Darth Krayt]

I think the Sith on Korriban, those red guys called the Massassi are The True Sith

Why? Well, We(Theforce.net) think that those we cut off from the True Sith who went to the unknown regions. And they devolved,like many other races in the EU.

They had know machines to develop new technology and so they became devolved, yet still force-sensitive. And years later, Xendor The First Dark Jedi went to these people and they begin to interbred. Result->Naga Sadow, ...

 

What do you think?

[T.Nova]

After reading through some things, aren't the red guys "native sith" or the the original sith known in the universe. The Dark Jedi were exiled to the planet (Korriban I think) and all types of stuff happened from there, however the True Sith seems to be some sort of empire that may have pre-dated that of the Sith Species back on Korriban. Perhaps the "red guys" are no more but descendants of these "True Sith".

[mivoci1]

Sion is a fool because if you play as female he begins to fall in love with your character

but his lightsaber skills are remarkable.

 

mivoci1, please note the date on the last post before posting. I have deleted several of your thread ressurection posts today, no more ok. Posting in a thread more than a couple weeks old since the last post is thread ressurection and is considered 'bumping' and unless you have something significant to add to the topic we ask that you refrain from posting in them. Thanks. -RH

[SilentScope001]

The Sith is a belief, and Kreia then differeantes between Belief and the True Sith...because the True Sith does not have to believe in the beliefs of the Sith. I'm going to state that the True Sith therefore be of the Sith species, and is therefore Alien.

[Vaelastraz]

The True Sith are a group of cunning humans who thought up the term "true Sith" in order to cause fear and terror, while at the same time they work on their goal to dominate the universe. They are not force sensitive.

Source: google.com