The Sith'ari

[Revan435]

Got this off of Wikipedia so this could be a lot of BS but might be what happens in kotor III

 

Around the time of the Jedi Civil War, the coming of the Sith'ari, an ancient Sith prophecy, became somewhat well known in Darth Revan's Sith Empire. The Sith'ari was said to be a perfect being who would rise to power and bring balance to the Force. According to prophecy, the Sith'ari would rise up and destroy the Sith, but in the process would return to lead the Sith and make them stronger than ever before. It is believed that the prophecy of the Sith Sith'ari and the prophecies of the Jedi Chosen One refer to the same individual; namely Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, who made the Sith stronger than ever by wiping out the Jedi Knights and assisting Darth Sidious in his rise to power, but then destroyed the Sith when he betrayed and killed Sidious, thus fulfilling the ancient prophecy of the Sith'ari.

 

i know the prophecy was compeleted by Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader but what if there was a choosen one before him. Tell me what u think

[TKA-001]

Got this off of Wikipedia so this could be a lot of BS

 

Why would there be BS in it since it's from Wikipedia?

[Revan435]

because i heard some stuff on that site arent true plus i think u can edit the site no matter who u are and there are some ppl out there who dont ahve a clue

 

maybe this is what revan is searching for. might be cool to play as the sith'ari.

[RedHawke]

Why would there be BS in it since it's from Wikipedia?

Trust wikipedia, I would not!

You are wise.

 

It's pretty hard to make up stuff on the wikipedia. they do a good job.

Are you kidding? It is easy to make stuff up, and it happens all the time:

 

http://www.aspendailynews.com/article_14537

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1657588.cms

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19501894-2,00.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/15/wikipedia_can_damage_your_grades/

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/0610biz-wikis0610.html

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=65&contentid=3569

etc.

 

Even it's creator says that it can't always be trusted.

http://www.trimmail.com/news/elsewhere/data/1150480413.24/

 

Trust Wookieepedia, I would.

Wookiepedia is really fanon. While it can be a useful site to get the general idea about a topic, it can't be trusted to provide a canon source of information. Just look at the amount of editing and arguments that go on there over what is correct (you can start at Recent Changes). A lot of the time it is just fan speculation without any solid supporting evidence.

 

Here is just one of many examples.

 

Actually, I would suggest that the Unofficial Encyclopedia is a better source, since at least there each entry comes from specific cited sources.

 

Try changing something on the wikipedia to something you know is incorrect.

As I pointed out above, this happens constantly, and can remain incorrect for months before it is corrected, if it is at all.

I couldn't say it better...

[deathdisco]

Yuthura Ban tells you of the Sith'ari prophecy in K1.

[Darth Windu]

Yuthura Ban tells you of the Sith'ari prophecy in K1.

No, really?!?!?! What a revelation

 

Yes, Wikipedia is full of rubbish and can't be trusted. For the Sith'ari, it was indeed referring to Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.

[The Doctor]

Statistically, Wikipedia has fewer errors per one thousand errors than any 'hard' encyclopedia. Yes, there are bound to be idiots who throw in false information, but as a whole, it's just as accurate, if not more so, than any other resource.

[Aristotélēsticus]

the thread was supposed to discuss the Sith'ari prophecy not the accuracy of Wikipedia, although i dont trust it like most of you coz its open to everyone to right thier own informations and sometimes fiction...anyway, as i have stated in many threads before...my idea of perfection of KotOR III is to play as the Sith'ari...and here is my idea

[Char Ell]

Yuthura Ban tells you of the Sith'ari prophecy in K1.

No, really?!?!?! What a revelation

I've wondered what significance Yuthura's mention of the Sith'ari in KotOR had. Was it foreshadowing something for use in future KotOR games or was it simply a matter of overzealous dialogue writing? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

IMO Wiki's are only good when they use readily verifiable and authoritative sources. Absent that they're only so much opinion/interpretation from various individuals who may or may not know what they're talking about. So if there is a quote out there from George Lucas where Mr. Lucas states Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader fulfilled the Chosen One/Sith'ari prophecy then I would consider that authoritative.

 

If (a big if) the info about the Sith'ari prophecy in the Wookiepedia quote is accurate then it's not readily apparent to me that Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader fulfilled that prophecy. I would welcome anyone who could provide more authoritative sources about the Sith'ari prophecy that would shed a little more light on the question at hand.

[RobQel-Droma]

In answer to what Revan435 said, I don't think that would make sense. The prophecy said that he would destroy the Sith, so how that happen twice? If there was a "chosen one" before the movies, then they wouldn't be waiting for one - in their minds, the prophecy would already be fulfilled.

 

And personally, I do believe that Sith'ari = Chosen One.

[Prime]

Statistically, Wikipedia has fewer errors per one thousand errors than any 'hard' encyclopedia. Yes, there are bound to be idiots who throw in false information, but as a whole, it's just as accurate, if not more so, than any other resource.

Yes and no. Wikipedia, and especially Wookieepedia, might have a comparable number of errors to a standard encyclopedia, but they have way more conjecture and opinions. Much of the stuff on there might not be technically wrong in the sense that there is hard proof against it, but in many cases there isn't any evidence supporting it either.

 

That is why it is less reliable, especially wookieepedia. For example:

 

Sometime during the early history of the First Sith Empire, the coming of the Sith'ari, an exemplar of the Sith ideal, was foretold. The Sith'ari was prophesied a perfect being free of all restrictions who would rise to power and, according to the legend, destroy the Sith—yet, through their destruction, make them stronger than ever. According to the description, it might have referred to Kaan although he was never qualified to be genetically "perfect".

 

Some have drawn parallels to the Sith'ari and the Chosen One of Jedi legend, theorising that they are one and the same—Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader who qualifies better the role of "perfect being".

How so? By the time he became a Sith he was already damaged goods. And by the time of his death he was mostly machine and considered damaged goods by Palpatine, which was why he sought to replace him with Luke. He was hardly a perfect being while he was a Sith.

 

Note that it also states that he would be free of all restrictions and rise to power. Vader never rose to power. He was always the apprentice to Palpatine (and arguably also under the command of Tarkin). Palpatine was always more powerful than Anakin. So how can Anakin be the all-powerful Sith'ari if he isn't even the dominant or most powerful Sith in his own time?

 

These comments are completely fan conjecture without any real supporting evidence, especially from the developers.

 

Furthermore, Skywalker appears to have been the Sith'ari, as he destroyed the Sith at Endor when he killed Palpatine and later died. However, the Sith appeared to have returned stronger, as shown by the appearance of the new Sith Order c. 130 ABY.

WTF? The Sith'ari prophecy says that he/she will "destroy the Sith—yet, through their destruction, make them stronger than ever." Then what is said above shows that Anakin is not the Sith'ari. He did destroy the Sith, but how did they become stronger because of it? At that point they ceased to exist! The new Sith from Legacy that he is refering to were started by Darth Krayt on Korriban (learning from ancient teaching presumably) 40 years after the fact, and currently it is apparent that there is absolutely no connection between Palpatine/Vader and this new Order.

 

Anakin is not the Sith'ari. The author is simply making this up. And this is made even more clear if you go to the discussion section and look at his ramblings (apparently Anakin killing Dooku makes him the Sith'ari too!).

 

Behind the scenes

Despite the numerous beings the Sith'ari could be, due to Bioware's attempts to connect the Star Wars universe during the Galactic Civil War era and the KotOR era, it is most likely referring to Anakin Skywalker.

Again, complete fan conjecture with absolutely no supporting evidence. Basically, this guy forgot to put "my ass" under the sources section.

[Jae Onasi]

The entire SW universe is all fiction, when you get down to the bottom line.

As long as an author of a story or game doesn't do something that directly contradicts the movies, I'm happy.

 

There are so many people writing so many games, comics/graphic novels/whatever the name is lately, books, etc. that there are going to be inconsistencies and continuity breaks in the EU. It's hard enough to keep out continuity errors just in one book, much less trying to check against all the other EU things.

 

On some of these debates, you can argue til the cows come home because there's just not enough data, or consistent data, to make any kind of definitive conclusion. Just about any conclusion could be valid in those situations. A lot of the stuff is just conjecture or subject to interpretation, anyway, because it's so vague. If someone wanted to say for a game that all angsty Telosian pilots are from the 'true Sith', then they could, as long as they had a reasonable explanation and a well-written story. Not everyone might agree with it, but what's the worst they're going to do? Say that they don't agree with it? Big deal.

 

R435 asks an interesting question, and I just don't know the answer with 100% certainty. I'm inclined to believe that a. Anakin was 'The Chosen One' and b. there were no others, mainly because it says 'Chosen One' and not 'Chosen Ones'. Even the 'Chosen One' prophecy itself is somewhat vague. However, if Lucas came out with some other explanation that fit even better, I'd go with that since it's his little universe.

[HerbieZ]

The entire SW universe is all fiction, when you get down to the bottom line.

 

Lies.

[deathdisco]

No, really?!?!?! What a revelation

 

WTF. I was confirming that the Sith'ari prophecy was actually in game since Wikipedia's accuracy is in question. Don't assume everyone has heard every piece of dialog in game.

[Char Ell]

The Wookieepedia's Sith'ari article quoted by Revan435 <link> cites two sources, KotOR and The New Essential Chronology.

 

Here is the one from KotOR...

Context: Yuthura Ban providing more detailed explanation of the following line from the Sith Code, "Through victory my chains are broken."

Yuthura Ban: This... has been argued over, and often. The chains represent our restrictions, both those placed upon us and those we place upon ourselves. Ultimately the goal of any Sith is to free herself from such restrictions. In a way, it is so we may do whatever we wish... but it is much more than that. One who has freed themselves from all restrictions has reached perfection. Their potential fulfilled. Perfect strength, perfect power, perfect destiny. Imagine it. That is our ideal, at any rate. It is said in Sith legend that the 'Sith'ari'... the perfect being... will one day lead us. But perhaps that is just a legend.

 

PC: You don't think the Sith'ari can exist?

 

Yuthura Ban: I... wonder what a being would be like. The legends say the Sith'ari will destroy us... and make us stronger than ever. But perhaps that is just a legend. Perfection is... a goal, I think, rather than a state of being. The Jedi would argue that, no doubt.

I don't have a copy of the NEC so if someone who does wants to look it up and post a quote of whatever the NEC states about the Sith'ari...

 

Using Google to search the Internet for Sith'ari references yielded mostly forum and blog entries. I didn't take the time to read them all but the few I did seemed to think that the Sith'ari and Chosen One prophecies are probably about the same person. From what little information the EU seems to contain about the Sith'ari I just don't see how all these Star Wars fans can make such a conclusion when there is so little evidence to support it.

 

At this point my thought is the Sith'ari was thrown into KotOR for potential future use in the series. Beyond that is anybody's guess. Yuthura's passing reference to the Sith'ari is vague enough to be retconned many different ways in future KotOR games, including not using it at all. IMO this gives the game series the advantage of not locking succeeding games into using the Sith'ari in their storyline if the writers don't want to. Of course the reference is there to build off of just as well. This situation reminds me of Ajunta Pall's abstract references to the true source of the ancient Sith Lord's power in KotOR. Perhaps Ajunta Pall was talking about Malachor V but he still could have been talking about another location just as well. I don't remember anything from TSL that made me think, "Oh, this is the place Ajunta Pall was talking about in KotOR."

[DarthSion101]

Yes and no. Wikipedia, and especially Wookieepedia, might have a comparable number of errors to a standard encyclopedia, but they have way more conjecture and opinions. Much of the stuff on there might not be technically wrong in the sense that there is hard proof against it, but in many cases there isn't any evidence supporting it either.

 

That is why it is less reliable, especially wookieepedia. For example:

 

How so? By the time he became a Sith he was already damaged goods. And by the time of his death he was mostly machine and considered damaged goods by Palpatine, which was why he sought to replace him with Luke. He was hardly a perfect being while he was a Sith.

 

Note that it also states that he would be free of all restrictions and rise to power. Vader never rose to power. He was always the apprentice to Palpatine (and arguably also under the command of Tarkin). Palpatine was always more powerful than Anakin. So how can Anakin be the all-powerful Sith'ari if he isn't even the dominant or most powerful Sith in his own time?

 

These comments are completely fan conjecture without any real supporting evidence, especially from the developers.

 

WTF? The Sith'ari prophecy says that he/she will "destroy the Sith—yet, through their destruction, make them stronger than ever." Then what is said above shows that Anakin is not the Sith'ari. He did destroy the Sith, but how did they become stronger because of it? At that point they ceased to exist! The new Sith from Legacy that he is refering to were started by Darth Krayt on Korriban (learning from ancient teaching presumably) 40 years after the fact, and currently it is apparent that there is absolutely no connection between Palpatine/Vader and this new Order.

 

Anakin is not the Sith'ari. The author is simply making this up. And this is made even more clear if you go to the discussion section and look at his ramblings (apparently Anakin killing Dooku makes him the Sith'ari too!).

 

Again, complete fan conjecture with absolutely no supporting evidence. Basically, this guy forgot to put "my ass" under the sources section.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Anyways, Since we are getting into a debate of who and who isn't the Sith'ari, I suppose one could bestow the title upon Darth Krayt, Technically he destroyed the Order by abolishing the Rule Of Two, and made it stronger by conquering the Galaxy and uniting all sith under his Iron banner.

[RobQel-Droma]

How so? By the time he became a Sith he was already damaged goods. And by the time of his death he was mostly machine and considered damaged goods by Palpatine, which was why he sought to replace him with Luke. He was hardly a perfect being while he was a Sith.

 

At the time of Anakin's turning to the dark side, namely the scene in Palpatine's "office" with Mace Windu, he was probably the most powerful force-user alive. And at that time, no, he wasn't "damaged goods" yet. As for not being perfect, Yuthura did say that "perfection is... a goal, I think, rather than a state of being."

 

Note that it also states that he would be free of all restrictions and rise to power. Vader never rose to power. He was always the apprentice to Palpatine (and arguably also under the command of Tarkin). Palpatine was always more powerful than Anakin. So how can Anakin be the all-powerful Sith'ari if he isn't even the dominant or most powerful Sith in his own time?

 

When Vader killed Palps in RotJ, he picked him up and carried him all the way to a shaft, while being hit with Sith lightning. Yet even the "more powerful" emperor couldn't stop Vader from tossing him off a ledge, even with all the Sith powers at his disposal. Vader died afterwards from this (and so fulfilling the part about destroying the Sith, perhaps).

 

Anyways, Since we are getting into a debate of who and who isn't the Sith'ari, I suppose one could bestow the title upon Darth Krayt, Technically he destroyed the Order by abolishing the Rule Of Two, and made it stronger by conquering the Galaxy and uniting all sith under his Iron banner.

 

That might be true, although I don't really know anything about all that. In a sense, that seems to fill the "requirements." But the prophecy was before Bane's Rule of Two, when the Sith were hundreds of dark force users. So merely rejecting that rule would not be destroying the Sith (even if you mean destroying the Order of those Sith - because of what I said about the time of the prophecy). If anything, it would be that "free of restrictions" part, perhaps. If Krayt is the Sith'ari... well, maybe his actions could cause the destruction of all the Sith, and yet what he did with the Rule of Two and all that made them stronger... I dunno.

 

I'm not really arguing that Anakin is the "Sith'ari", although that is what I have thought it was. I really don't know anything about Darth Krayt, either - just what I got off of (ironically) Wookieepedia.

 

But anyways, there might always be this possibility; after all, Yuthura had her doubts:

 

"A prophecy.... that misread could have been." - Yoda

[Aristotélēsticus]

the choosen one is Anakin now doubts, but is he the Sith'ari? i guess not...coz Anakin is a Jedi, offcourse he fell into the darkness but he remained a Jedi, even when he is a "sith" he still had a good side...so my idea about Anakin is that his turning was not an evil way but a destined way to fulfill his fate as the choosen one...the force will i mean...like in Odepos who tried to avoid his doom only to fall into it...so, the idea is that the Sith'ari should be a Sith or a Jedi who fell deeply into the dark side...if we take Revan's dark ending for examble...he destroyed the sith ruled by Malak only to lead them and make them stronger but since this is not the cannonical ending then Revan is not what we're seeking...

[Prime]

The entire SW universe is all fiction, when you get down to the bottom line.

As long as an author of a story or game doesn't do something that directly contradicts the movies, I'm happy.

But we aren't talking about the inconsistencies in the actually story, but the inconsistencies of random fans adding inaccurate or unproven ideas into wookieepedia.

 

There are so many people writing so many games, comics/graphic novels/whatever the name is lately, books, etc. that there are going to be inconsistencies and continuity breaks in the EU. It's hard enough to keep out continuity errors just in one book, much less trying to check against all the other EU things.

Sure. There are always going to be inconsistencies, but it is the purpose of LL to prevent those as much as possible. And one of the problems with wookieepedia is that it out of the control of LL, and so not validated to the same degree, if at all.

 

Basically, it is up to the other fans to call bull****.

 

At the time of Anakin's turning to the dark side, namely the scene in Palpatine's "office" with Mace Windu, he was probably the most powerful force-user alive. And at that time, no, he wasn't "damaged goods" yet.

But at that time we wasn't more powerful than Palpatine, who indirectly says to in ROTS when he says that, "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us." He isn't at that point. And after his injuries and by the time of ROTJ, Lucas has stated that Vader was about 80% as powerful as Palpatine, whereas he would have been twice as powerful had he not been injured. So at no time was he more powerful than Palpatine.

 

When Vader killed Palps in RotJ, he picked him up and carried him all the way to a shaft, while being hit with Sith lightning. Yet even the "more powerful" emperor couldn't stop Vader from tossing him off a ledge, even with all the Sith powers at his disposal. Vader died afterwards from this (and so fulfilling the part about destroying the Sith, perhaps).

Even if what Lucas has said was not true and Vader was more powerful, how did he complete the Sith'ari prophecy? Yes, he destroyed them, but how did he make them more powerful? They ceased to exist upon his death.

[RobQel-Droma]

Even if what Lucas has said was not true and Vader was more powerful, how did he complete the Sith'ari prophecy? Yes, he destroyed them, but how did he make them more powerful? They ceased to exist upon his death.

 

That is why I said that I am not directly arguing that Anakin is the Sith'ari - I still have some doubts myself.

[Emperor Devon]

Even if what Lucas has said was not true and Vader was more powerful, how did he complete the Sith'ari prophecy? Yes, he destroyed them, but how did he make them more powerful? They ceased to exist upon his death.

 

Anakin was more powerful than Dooku, so it made the Sith stronger for one of their members to be replaced by someone more powerful. And like you said, he also destroyed the Sith, so that fulfills the prophecy.

[Aristotélēsticus]

only in a reverse way...assuming that when Anakin joined the sith he made them more powerful...still he destroyed them at the end, and this is not like what the prophecy said...he must destroy them first then make them stronger.

[Prime]

Anakin was more powerful than Dooku, so it made the Sith stronger for one of their members to be replaced by someone more powerful. And like you said, he also destroyed the Sith, so that fulfills the prophecy.

As Korfredonn says, you have it backwards. To fulfill the prophecy he has to make the Sith stronger as a result of destroying them. But he didn't, he made them stronger and then destroyed them, causing them to cease to exist.

 

Unless you are saying that by there not being any Sith they are really powerful.

[Vaelastraz]

I've wondered what significance Yuthura's mention of the Sith'ari in KotOR had. Was it foreshadowing something for use in future KotOR games or was it simply a matter of overzealous dialogue writing? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Considering that Bioware did the first game, and Obsidian the second, i'D say it is not foreshadowing.

[zinervadonella]

So at no time was he more powerful than Palpatine.

 

Even if Lucas said that Vader was 80% as powerful as Palps, that just doesn't stand up to logic. Vader destroyed Palps while being hit full force with force lighting from a Sith whose force lighting left Luke writhing on the floor in agony, sent Yoda flying across a room, and shot Mace Windu across a large chunk of a city. If Palps was more powerful wouldn't he have won the fight?

 

Even if what Lucas has said was not true and Vader was more powerful, how did he complete the Sith'ari prophecy? Yes, he destroyed them, but how did he make them more powerful? They ceased to exist upon his death.

 

He destroyed the Jedi order, allowing the Sith to rule the galaxy. Sounds like he made them more powerful to me. Once destroyed, there would be no Sith to make more powerful, so he had to make them more powerful before he destroyed them. And that's just what he did.