New Engine for Lucas Arts

[Point Man]

The physics engine looks cool, but I'm not sure how it would tanslate into a KOTOR RPG.

[Cygnus Q'ol]

The physics system looks good, though I don't want an entirely new graphics engine for KotOR III.

 

That will all depend on when it's made.

 

If they make it three years from now, it'll more than likely be a different system.

[Emperor Devon]

I'd say that is probably unlikely. Players tend to demand upgraded visuals and the like. You can't stop progress.

 

I can only hope... But it appears I am one of the few who wants the graphics, combat, gameplay and just about everything else to stay like it was in the other games.

[Windu Chi]

BAH! BAH I say!

 

The last thing I want to see is flip-kicks in KOTOR!

What is your problem with flip-kicks? Prime!

Or, do you think in your opinion, that the combat Ep III:ROTS sucked?

My only problem with the combat in that game, was their blocking system.

All the blocking was computer controlled animation, I say the blocking system should be a 360* blocking system, that can have the option of being manually controlled by the player.

This blocking system will definitely test your skills in lightsaber combat.

The idea is that for the game controllers, this 360* manual blocking will work by way of the analog stick.

Unless they come up with something different, related to the blocking system.

This 360 degrees blocking system will be the best and most realistic, in my opinion.

[RedHawke]

^^^^

The problem is you would turn KotOR into a 'twitch' game, and as hard as it is for you dexterous people to accept not everyone enjoys playing 'twitch' games.

 

KotOR and TSL are 'Pure' RPG's lets keep them that way...

[Point Man]

To follow up on RedHawke's comment, I like KOTOR because it allows me to immerse myself in my character more. The character is the one defeating the enemy, not the player.

[Cygnus Q'ol]

^^^^

The problem is you would turn KotOR into a 'twitch' game, and as hard as it is for you dexterous people to accept not everyone enjoys playing 'twitch' games.

 

KotOR and TSL are 'Pure' RPG's lets keep them that way...

 

No better way to say it.

That's the reason I bought and enjoy KotOR.

 

Don't get me wrong I like many styles of gaming.

But for KotOR, it needs to keep story and character development as it's primary focus.

[Windu Chi]

I see what y'all are saying, ''if ain't broke don't fix it''.

But games evolve, if they don't fix the combat I don't the game series going to last long.That turn base combat system is becoming obsolete, it is time to take it out back and have it shot.

And have a realtime player controlled combat system as a replacement.

It can be an action RPG like Oblivion, look how popular that game was.

I want fights to end by my doing not the computer.

Also you can't feel like Jedi in that game if you don't have the freedom to fight like one.

[Emperor Devon]

I see what y'all are saying, ''if ain't broke don't fix it''.

But games evolve, if they don't fix the combat I don't the game series going to last long.

 

Given how popular the previous two were, that is unlikely.

 

Also you can't feel like Jedi in that game if you don't have the freedom to fight like one.

 

Then go play one of the Jedi Knight games.

[RedHawke]

But games evolve, if they don't fix the combat I don't the game series going to last long.That turn base combat system is becoming obsolete, it is time to take it out back and have it shot.

'Pure' RPG's are cerebral not 'twitch'. One day you will get why these games are as popular as they are. But they are far from "obsolete".

 

And have a realtime player controlled combat system as a replacement.

It can be an action RPG like Oblivion, look how popular that game was.

I want fights to end by my doing not the computer.

Also you can't feel like Jedi in that game if you don't have the freedom to fight like one.

KotOR is a 'Pure' RPG and as such is not meant to be an 'action' game. You are meant to choose tactical options and your actions, you are not meant to run the fight "by my doing" as die rolls do all of that, hence the game plays the way it does. Remember that games based off of a PnP system are not going to give you 'flashy' or evolved combat. It isn't likely to change either.

[Windu Chi]

'Pure' RPG's are cerebral not 'twitch'. One day you will get why these games are as popular as they are. But they are far from "obsolete".

I don't know what you mean by ''twitch'', but RPG games evolved too and the turn base combat system days are numbered.

Even if you don't want to believe it, RedHawke.

 

KotOR is a 'Pure' RPG and as such is not meant to be an 'action' game. You are meant to choose tactical options and your actions, you are not meant to run the fight "by my doing" as die rolls do all of that, hence the game plays the way it does. Remember that games based off of a PnP system are not going to give you 'flashy' or evolved combat. It isn't likely to change either.

My idea is not to turn KOTOR III into a action game.

I love the RPG game play style, I just want the combat to be free will.

I will like to see more Jedi games in the future as action RPGs.

Watching the same combat animations over and over again is going to get boring to new players to the KOTOR series.

Also more and more players of KOTOR 1&2 want the combat to be realtime in the next game.

The rumors that are going around is that Lucasarts want the combat to be realtime in KOTOR III.

They want to focus on lightsaber combat, that one of the rumors have reported on some game websites.

So, all the hardcore probability base combat fans out there will soon find that they are becoming a dying breed; they will eventually have to accept that realtime combat will be the choice Lucasarts will eventually end up making, whenever KOTOR III come out.

 

Given how popular the previous two were, that is unlikely.

You mean given how popular KOTOR 1 was, TSL didn't win a game of the year reward, like Knights of the Old Republic.

 

Then go play one of the Jedi Knight games.

I have already played most of the Jedi Knight games, Devon.

If they don't change the combat, Knights of the Old Republic III won't receive a game of the year reward or be that popular either.

And LucasArts will then realize their mistake.

When they piss off all the Jedi fans out there.

[RedHawke]

I don't know what you mean by ''twitch'', but RPG games evolved too and the turn base combat system days are numbered.

Even if you don't want to believe it, RedHawke.

Your proposal is a 'twitch' one. You are not ever meant to do combat like you want. You need to realise there is the whole die rolling thing going on and that won't change either because this is a 'Pure' RPG.

 

Sorry, just because you don't like a game style doesn't mean its "days are numbered".

 

My idea is not to turn KOTOR III into a action game.

I love the RPG game play style, I just want the combat to be free will.

You contradict yourself here... you say you like the 'style' but keep mentioning 'free will' you already have it... But your actions are plotted tactically and dice are rolled to determine your success. This is the core of the game.

 

I will like to see more Jedi games in the future as action RPGs.

We get it... but please remember to ask for this for the proper title. KotOR is a RPG series based on a PnP game system and KotOR III will be the same. While I have no doubt it will be prettier and even might have more fluid combat animations but rest assured that the combat playstyle will remain similar.

 

Watching the same combat animations over and over again is going to get boring to new players to the KOTOR series.

Also more and more players of KOTOR 1&2 want the combat to be realtime in the next game.

These kinds of RPG's are cerebral... not reflexive. Sorry but the audience is wider than you think it is.

 

It isn't likely to change either. You alienate a large percentage of your player base if you do. See when designing a game you have to cater to your whole potential audience... and 2/3 of that audience do not really care about the combat.

 

You would be well advised to do a little research into what these kinds of RPG's used to be and then you would indeed realise just how good KotOR really is/was... it was evolutionary for a 'Pure' RPG. Even when compared to its recent predecessor NWN.

 

The rumors that are going around is that Lucasarts want the combat to be realtime in KOTOR III.

They want to focus on lightsaber combat, that one of the rumors have reported on some game websites.

So, all the hardcore probability base combat fans out there will soon find that they are becoming a dying breed; they will eventually have to accept that realtime combat will be the choice Lucasarts will eventually end up making, whenever KOTOR III come out.

The rumors have been just that... rumors. There is not one shred of proof from LA supporting this fact. Sorry.

 

With 20+ years of RPG expirience I know a little bit about this topic, and unfortunately you are IMHO quite incorrect here. The genre is here to stay, I can back this up and with several recent games being released using these types of systems so I see your "dying breed" statement as more than a little flawed.

 

Edit: I won't even begin to address how incorrect your statements to Emp. Devon are... wow, just wow!

[FiEND_138]

Then go play one of the Jedi Knight games.

Amen. Seriously, I'm sick of people whining that the KotoR series isn't a first/third person jedi combat simulator. If you people want twitch combat play JK or RotS, or bombard the LA boards pleading for a new JK.

 

*waits for the next "demand" of online FFA/CTF*

[Jackel]

If they don't change the combat, Knights of the Old Republic III won't receive a game of the year reward or be that popular either.

Im sorry but I just about fell off my chair with laughter at this. "Real time combat means a game of the year award!" is basically what you are saying. Funny. I have played several great games over the years with better combat systems then K1, they were even real time! *shock horror etc etc* but they didnt win game of the year awards, or if they one a few they didnt win as many as K1. So your idea that "Real time combat means a game of the year award!" is a fallacy.

 

What won K1 the GOTY awards was the story, characterisations, in depth ability to mold your character to how you like to play etc, not the combat system alone.

And LucasArts will then realize their mistake.

When they piss off all the Jedi fans out there.

Lucasarts problem isnt non-real time combat but the time they like to shove sequals out in if a game is good, they need to realise people are willing to wait for a great game and spend the time/money to make it rather then "it won awards! quick rush out a sequal by the end of the year!"

[Emperor Devon]

I won't even begin to address how incorrect your statements to Emp. Devon are... wow, just wow!

 

Agreed!

 

I don't know what you mean by ''twitch'', but RPG games evolved too and the turn base combat system days are numbered.

Even if you don't want to believe it, RedHawke.

 

Watching the same combat animations over and over again is going to get boring to new players to the KOTOR series.

 

Flashy animations may look nice, but they're really just flash. I play KotOR for the story, modding, and wonderful combat system, not to see how many times my character can twirl his lightsaber.

 

I have already played most of the Jedi Knight games, Devon.

 

Then if you have the sudden inclination for twitch-based combat, you can play them again, wait for Force Unleashed, or pick one of hundreds of action games to play. There are plenty of games (some of which are good) that don't utilize KotOR's combat system. Why you would want to turn a successful D&D combat game into an action one when there so many other current and future games of that genre I can't guess.

 

If they don't change the combat, Knights of the Old Republic III won't receive a game of the year reward or be that popular either.

 

Yeah, it's a wonder the first two games were so successful, what with that awful combat system and all. How on Earth did the first manage to get the game of the year award, and how did they all attract so many fans?

 

And LucasArts will then realize their mistake.

When they piss off all the Jedi fans out there.

 

Since I've already addressed your main point in my previous one, the only thing I have to add is that a good portion of KotOR fans chose not to be Jedi.

 

You contradict yourself here... you say you like the 'style' but keep mentioning 'free will' you already have it... But your actions are plotted tactically and dice are rolled to determine your success. This is the core of the game.

 

And given all the equipment, level ups, party members and alternatives to direct combat, I'd venture that KotOR provides more 'free will' than quite a few twitch games.

[Windu Chi]

Your proposal is a 'twitch' one. You are not ever meant to do combat like you want. You need to realise there is the whole die rolling thing going on and that won't change either because this is a 'Pure' RPG.

 

Sorry, just because you don't like a game style doesn't mean its "days are numbered".

 

Bioware's, Jade Empire was an action RPG. Would you called that game a ''twitch'' type game?

That game was best as TSL, but it was no Star Wars game, so not a good comparison.

But the combat in that game was realtime.

Star Wars Galaxies(a MMORPG), combat is realtime not autocombat(turn-base combat).

Probability combat days are numbered.

 

So, yes classic turn-base, so called 'Pure' RPGs as you call them, are dying.

If you don't want to accept turn-base combat's approaching death, then you will just be left and .

[Master Kavar]

Yes, Jade Empire was a "twitch" game. It was an excellent RPG, no question, but it still relied more on reflexes and memorizing combinations over its RPG elements. And I am with the camp that believes that shifting away from the D20 combat system would not only ruin the game, but the franchise.

 

The D20 combat system has been around for decades, and it still has a strong loyal fan base, and as long as that remains these kind of games aren't going away any time soon. To change KotOR III into a more action oriented RPG would be an attempt to appeal to action gamers who aren't RPG fans, while alienating their RPG fan base. Not a smart business decision from my perspective.

[RedHawke]

Bioware's, Jade Empire was an action RPG. Would you called that game a ''twitch'' type game?

Jade Empire was an 'Action RPG' yes, the technical term is a 'Hybrid RPG'. Jade Empire is very much a 'Twitch' game, though it is still turn based.

 

Again I must re-iterate that all games need not play the same way. I also must add that these games are not solely aimed toward the ADD Button-Mashing Console Kiddies Generation... these kinds of games have to appeal to a broader audience, from teens to the elderly (And they don't play 'twitch' very well...)

 

That game was best as TSL, but it was no Star Wars game, so not a good comparison.

I partially agree with you here, Jade Empire isn't a good comparison for KotOR.

 

But the combat in that game was realtime.

Jade Empire is still a turn-based game, though it is cleverly disguised and you need to imput control combos to choose your combat actions, but you can clearly make out a turn pattern in the fights. Again, JE is a 'Hybrid' RPG not a 'Pure' RPG.

 

Star Wars Galaxies(a MMORPG), combat is realtime not autocombat(turn-base combat).

Yet a newer MMORPG called D&D Online has a combat system that is a very cleverly disguised turn-based die-rolling/calculating system. It is far newer than Galaxies, also MMORPG's are not a good comparison for a Single-Player RPG.

 

Probability combat days are numbered.

 

So, yes classic turn-base, so called 'Pure' RPGs as you call them, are dying.

If you don't want to accept turn-base combat's approaching death, then you will just be left and .

*RedHawke falls out of chair laughing and cannot catch breath...*

 

The only reason I post responses is that you are stating these kinds of things as fact, you are incorrect. Just because you don't personally like something doesn't give you the right to keep making stuff up about it.

 

The genre of 'Pure' RPG game is the eldest of game types, and they are here to stay.

 

And given all the equipment, level ups, party members and alternatives to direct combat, I'd venture that KotOR provides more 'free will' than quite a few twitch games.

Word!

[Jae Onasi]

J

The genre of 'Pure' RPG game is the eldest of game types, and they are here to stay.

 

And I hope the devs keep making a lot of the pure RPG games, because I'll continue to buy them. I got the button mashing out of my system playing Asteroids and The Empire Strikes Back on Atari a few years back, so I don't really care to play that again (except maybe Circus Atari ). The men in the family play The Incredibles and some of the JK games, but those games don't really interest me that much--I want to have fun figuring out mysteries and solving the Problems of the Star Wars Universe and save/take over the galaxy (or Neverwinter, CSI, etc.). I honestly don't care if the characters do 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon' style back-flippy kind of moves after jumping 18 feet into the air--I'm not playing the game to see that or make the characters do that. I'm playing for the story and the characters.

 

I heard on WGN radio (Chicago, AM 720) last weekend on the Technology Tailor show that the average age of people buying video games has gone up to 38, and 25% of those are women--with that kind of demographic change (increasing age, increasing female purchasers), I would expect to see _more_ story-driven, RPG style games, not less.

[Prime]

What is your problem with flip-kicks? Prime!

That they have no place in the KOTOR series (or in the JK series for that matter IMO).

 

Or, do you think in your opinion, that the combat Ep III:ROTS sucked?

I thought it rocked. Doesn't mean it should be in the KOTOR.

 

This blocking system will definitely test your skills in lightsaber combat.

I don't want to test my skills in lightsaber combat. I did that in JK and ROTS. I want to test my character's skills.

 

It can be an action RPG like Oblivion, look how popular that game was.

Mario Kart is popular too. Should Mario Kart features be in there?

 

Also you can't feel like Jedi in that game if you don't have the freedom to fight like one.

I don't want to feel like a Jedi Knight. I want my character to be a Jedi Knight.

 

You mean given how popular KOTOR 1 was, TSL didn't win a game of the year reward, like Knights of the Old Republic.

Wrong

http://bestof.ign.com/2004/xbox/6.html

 

Wrong

http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=1096

 

Wrong

http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/997/TeamXbox-Game-of-the-Year-Awards-2004/p3/

 

Wrong

http://www.obsidianent.com/news_archive_05.html

 

Wrong

http://www.talkxbox.com/editorial53.html

 

Wrong.

http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swkotor_sithlords/mini-site.html

 

Actually, it won onver 35 of them.

[nick3333]

That they have no place in the KOTOR series (or in the JK series for that matter IMO).

 

I thought it rocked. Doesn't mean it should be in the KOTOR.

 

I don't want to test my skills in lightsaber combat. I did that in JK and ROTS. I want to test my character's skills.

 

Mario Kart is popular too. Should Mario Kart features be in there?

 

I don't want to feel like a Jedi Knight. I want my character to be a Jedi Knight.

 

Wrong

http://bestof.ign.com/2004/xbox/6.html

 

Wrong

http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=1096

 

Wrong

http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/997/TeamXbox-Game-of-the-Year-Awards-2004/p3/

 

Wrong

http://www.obsidianent.com/news_archive_05.html

 

Wrong

http://www.talkxbox.com/editorial53.html

 

Wrong.

http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swkotor_sithlords/mini-site.html

 

Actually, it won onver 35 of them.

 

 

Really? Wow. That's news to me.

[Emperor Devon]

Star Wars Galaxies(a MMORPG), combat is realtime not autocombat(turn-base combat).

 

Three key words...

 

If you don't want to accept turn-base combat's approaching death, then you will just be left and .

 

As RedHawke already gave his opinion on that (which I agree with), you should be aware that not all RPG fans like only pure RPG combat. I myself have enjoyed (other than JA's story) the JK series of games. They're fun, but I prefer KotOR. Gamers don't have purely black and white tastes.

 

I also see my replies to your posts have been ignored. For future reference, I would appreciate it if you only choose to debate with me if you intend to respond to my arguments.

[Windu Chi]

 

I also see my replies to your posts have been ignored. For future reference, I would appreciate it if you only choose to debate with me if you intend to respond to my arguments.

What you are worried Devon, because I left you hanging?

[Emperor Devon]

What you are worried Devon, because I left you hanging?

 

No, I simply don't like it when people start a debate with me and let it drop after I type a medium-length reply.

[Windu Chi]

Jade Empire was an 'Action RPG' yes, the technical term is a 'Hybrid RPG'. Jade Empire is very much a 'Twitch' game, though it is still turn based.

You must still be brainwash from playing

dice, Jade Empire is no Hybrid RPG its action RPG; I didn't have to throw the dice to hit my targets.

 

 

Yet a newer MMORPG called D&D Online has a combat system that is a very cleverly disguised turn-based die-rolling/calculating system. It is far newer than Galaxies, also MMORPG's are not a good comparison for a Single-Player RPG.

 

I don't care about that game, I am arguing the inevitable death of dice combat in RPGs.

I don't want to know about another dice combat game.

You're talking about something totally different.

 

 

*RedHawke falls out of chair laughing and cannot catch breath...*

*Windu laughs at RedHawke's conservatism*

 

The only reason I post responses is that you are stating these kinds of things as fact, you are incorrect. Just because you don't personally like something doesn't give you the right to keep making stuff up about it.

Why are you getting frustrated, the possible end to dice combat frightens you?

 

The genre of 'Pure' RPG game is the eldest of game types, and they are here to stay.

Word!

You're just going to have left in the dust like those conservative people who thought horses was going to be the indefinite form of transportation before automobiles arrived.

Always in motion is the future.