the best kotor?

[PoiuyWired]

kotor1 > kotor2

This is especially true if you like to play as female, the guy is less annoying. If you play as female in kotor2 you would REALLY be annoyed by that stalker perv desciple dude (you won't have him in the party if you play as male)

[LordJerec]

I agree with Qoute reply You should really get the first one first, regardless of which is better, else you'll likely be somewhat confused. That said, I think the first is indeed better. They're both great games, though. I think most people will recommend you play them in sequence, regardless of which they like better. It makes both games far more enjoyable.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Man, Kotor II could have been better, but, in the rush, they took the wrong detour and are now facing a dead end.

 

Take Kotor I, THEN Kotor II, its the right order after all! Be happy. Taris IS one of the best (if not the best) planet in both Kotors

 

Oh, and The Architect, i think u spoiled something...

[PoiuyWired]

Maybe they will soon have a Kotor1 + kotor2 combined box set that fixes the error adding new footage?

 

Wishful thinking I guess, but won't be a bad idea either.

[Jediphile]

^^

 

Given that Obsidian wanted to do a content patch to TSL that LA nixed, the odds of that happening are slim to none, I'd say. Particularly since it really would be the final insult to those of us who bought copies of the original TSL, if you ask me.

 

That would be okay only if the extra material was also made available for download free of charge for those of us who already have the game.

 

Adding stuff to K1 is basically out of the question, since Bioware and LA have parted ways.

[Sir Vougalot]

TSL Restoration Project, my man. TSL Restoration Project.

 

What happened to their site, anyway? It's down.

[Ambrose]

You don't like black&white stories? I wonder why you are interested in star wars then, after all Starwars is the ultimate black and white story...

 

Minus the sharp edge to the above post, I agree with it 100%. George Lucas and Mark Hamill have both talked about Star Wars being a story in which good and evil are so clearly defined; K1 does an excellent job of recreating this effect. I find TSL less Star Wars-ish. There's no "evil empire" to fight in TSL; there is in K1. Said evil empire has some very clear and distinct symbols of itself (shiny armor, red lightsabers, star forge insignia, uniforms, officers, huge army, etc).

 

I mean... there's not even an evil laugh in TSL

 

edit- oh, and K1 has Bastila. Major plus.

[Jediphile]

TSL Restoration Project, my man. TSL Restoration Project.

 

What happened to their site, anyway? It's down.

 

True, but it is being done in spite of any efforts by Lucasarts, certainly not because of them. The most LA has done is to actually not object to a group of people working to create a huge mod on their own with no support.

 

And what do you mean it's down? It works fine for me.

 

http://team-gizka.org/

[Emperor Devon]

KotOR II > KotOR I

 

The second game without question.

 

KotOR I had a good story, original or not, and great characters, but I found that TSL had far more 'depth' to it. Unfortunately, this all goes unappreciated by hordes of angry fanboys, () no doubt due to the all-important cut content. Before it was made public, I saw very little in the way of rants on KotOR II's completeness. Now, people claim the game is half-finished.

 

It is quite far from that. All the cut content really does, to be honest, is actually show events happening that were obvious enough off-screen. One example is

the scene with Goto and the Remote - if Malachor falls apart, it's obvious the Remote succeeded. If it doesn't, it's obvious that Goto did.

Why people think it's so important to show that scene I have no idea, since the outcome was obvious enough.

 

Another unappreciated character is Kreia. IMO, she was the most interesting character in both KotOR games. Her views were original, (but not bad, as with the Potentium) and the conversations with her had some of the most depth in the game. Her manipulative and shceming nature was a nice change from the standard 'I'm gonna kill everyone' Sith Lord. Having a mentor-like character was a good addition, too.

 

But alas! She's not hot, so that has to mean her insightful discussions are lectures, (despite how it's optional to hear many of them) and that all the depth her character has is 'stupid'.

 

If Obsidian had her look like Mission or Bastila, I think the reaction of all the fanboys would have been very different.

 

The orginality of the the Sith Lords was a plus, too. Nihilus' hunger, Sion's immortality and feelings toward the Exile were a nice change from the typical Dark Lord who's out to destroy the Republic.

 

Overall, TSL had a much better story (making it a better game) than KotOR. It's underrated, unfortunately, but I'd like to see what all the fanboys will do once the RP is finished. The story will be just as complete, and they won't have anything to complain about.

[mur'phon]

I'm not very interested in the star wars universe, its just that from what I have heard kotor1+2 are the only really good science fiction rpgs.

Also, black&white games can be fun when you just want to shoot something.

Its just that I really like it when rpgs divert from the old "we good, them bad them strong, we weak, so please save us from their army/weapon/spell/creature of doom and darknes o heroic one" formula.

 

Besides, good and evil are terms that can vary so much from one person/group to another that what one considers good, another considers bad, suecide bombing and emergencie help boycot are two examples.

So, are the jedi the good guys?

Are the sith any worse than power hungry politicans that rule the republic? Can the dark side provide greater power to help than the ligh side?

The answers you get depend on your perspective.

Anyways, your posts are helping me, so thanks a lot.

[Ambrose]

KotOR I had a good story, original or not, and great characters, but I found that TSL had far more 'depth' to it.

 

Perhaps TSL had more 'depth' in storyline, but K1 had more 'depth' in gameplay, IMO. The side quests in K1 were more rewarding, interesting, common, and look like they had a lot of thought put into them. Plus I though K1 dialogue options were way better and filled with subtle nuances.

 

TSL's characters were a bit more "deep" I guess, in that they weren't so archetypal, but a lot of the little details either weren't there or were completely unpolished. The random civilians in K1, for instance, had MANY MANY different things to say, and all just added to the depth of the story it was weaving. TSL was far more shallow on counts like this; take the western square of Iziz for instance (by the cantina.) There are "salvagers" all over the place, but they all have the exact same face/clothes and say only one thing ('heard of any good finds?'). In fact, that entire part of Onderon is probably the most unfinished-looking bit of TSL I've ever seen. The beast-riders all have only one line too. The Telos NPC civilians didn't have much to say either.

 

All in all, I think that the TSL makers must have been rushed, because a lot of little details which made K1 the great game it was were really left out in TSL. What TSL added in interface, graphics, and new force powers, it lost in ENVIRONMENTAL depth.

 

Another unappreciated character is Kreia. IMO, she was the most interesting character in both KotOR games. Her views were original, (but not bad, as with the Potentium) and the conversations with her had some of the most depth in the game. Her manipulative and shceming nature was a nice change from the standard 'I'm gonna kill everyone' Sith Lord. Having a mentor-like character was a good addition, too.

 

This I agree with. Kreia really makes the game. And the voice acting is just amazing. Kreia is the only character whose dialogue I don't just click through whenever I'm replaying the game, because the dialogue itself is well-written and really builds character, plus the voice acting.

 

Before it was made public, I saw very little in the way of rants on KotOR II's completeness. Now, people claim the game is half-finished.

 

Before I even knew it was possible to mod KotOR, I told my friends about how TSL didn't seem like it was quite finished. It seemed to me that the developers had left a lot of loose ends untied, and a lot of things just screamed "COMPLETE ME!" and not just the ending. WHen I learned there was cut content, that just gave substance to my suspcions.

[jonathan7]

Take Kotor I, THEN Kotor II, its the right order after all! Be happy. Taris IS one of the best (if not the best) planet in both Kotors

 

Your having a giraffe here arent you? Surely the best planets in kotor are either Onderon/Dxun (TSL), Dantooine (K1) or Korriban (K1). Taris is alright nothing more. Personally I believe peragus is a better introduction. I remember when I played it i was thinking;

 

 

Wow, what happened here everyones dead; its so mysterious and your running around trying to figer out whats happened, sure its not as good when you replay it as you know. an then when Sion appears, I was f*** in no way am I ready to face this dude

 

 

It doesnt make a difference which game you play in terms of plot understanding... the reason to play K1 first is you wont miss all the added gameplay features TSL has (i personally believe TSL is the better game).

[Sir Vougalot]

And what do you mean it's down? It works fine for me.

 

http://team-gizka.org/

Oh... That's weird. My bookmark no longer connects me, and the URL is 100% correct. EDIT: Nevermind. It seems to be working fine now.

 

Same deal with that other restoration project. The one with the droid planet. I can't get to their website anymore, either.

[JawaJoey]

I liked K1 better when I frist played it, but after getting spoiled by all the new interface features in TSL, I find it hard to enjoy as much as I did before I played TSL. To get the full experience, play K1 first, TSL second. TSL has better gameplay and a way more complex (and sometimes confusing) plotline, but in my opinion, nothing beats the traditional, archetypal, and direct approach to the K1 storyline.

 

I totally agree with this as well as pretty much everything else that Ambrose has said.

 

I loved the KOTOR 1 plot. The story telling and the sidequests were all great. They weren't innovative, but they were classic, well done, and most importantly, very fitting with the Star Wars saga. Good and evil, and obvious and overdone villains are what Star Wars is all about. I very much felt that the TSL plot wasn't very Star Wars at all.

 

Also, KOTOR 1 was way more complete. It was a more satisfying game to play, because it wasn't filled with rampant but minor graphical glitches and odd things, and it was complete. TSL felt incomplete, and had huge plot holes. It was obvious when playing that they weren't done, and hadn't done a fantastic job with what they had done.

 

That said, it's hard to go back to KOTOR 1, just because of the gameplay improvements in TSL, just as Ambrose said. New powers and feats, new options, new classes, better crafting and customization, more effects of attributes and skills, fixed resolution problems, everything about the interface and fundamental gameplay is an improvement.

 

But still, I'd say KOTOR 1 is the better game. That's why I'd recommend playing it first. It has the better story, but once you reach TSL's depth of gameplay, it'll be disappointing to go back to the predecessor.

[The Architect]

Mur'phon walks up to the architect and says.

Thank you mr architect for revealing the plot in k1 *smacks him with newspaper*

And thank you for revealing a lot about k2 *smacks harder*

Tho I think I'll agre with you when sometimes in the far future I play both, I think you didnt have to reveal that much *smacks some more for good measure*

That aside, I realy dont like black&white stories, I find them predictable and unrealistic, give me one black&white conflict after ww2. Still most people apears to belive that playing k1 will make playing k2 much more fun, so I think I'll buy k1. But keep posting, it helps me alot.

 

I'm sorry mur'phon. I should have read your first post. When I saw the title 'the best kotor?' I just assumed that you were asking which game people think is better, assuming that you had already played it. Forgive me for not reading your first post.

 

Although, it's not like I really spoiled much though. You can see both plot twists in K1 coming a mile away. BioWare's attempt at foreshadowing was a joke. They need to get better writers.

 

Still, I don't understand how people can say that K2 was better than K1. Sure, there's no doubt it would have been a way better game than K1, but how can a semi-completed product be better than a completed one? K1 wins by default IMO, because of this fact. But only by a fraction.

 

K1: 100% of the game. Meh.

 

K2: 80% of the game. Brilliant. Last 20%? Bull. Total. Bull.

[JawaJoey]

The thing about the foreseeable twist in K1, some people should realize that it depends on the player. What I mean is that not everyone cares about it being predictable. Maybe its just me, but when I play and game or watch any movie, I don't try to guess what's coming. Even if its easy to tell and there are plenty of hints, I'd rather listen to the story. Trying to guess the ending when the story is still being told is like looking up spoilers just for the hell of it, IMO. So I don't bother even thinking about it.

 

Even then, leading up to it it was hard not to think, "Crap, I'm blah blah blah aren't I?" Its not like there weren't enough hints. All I'm saying is that some people are able to just enjoy the story as it happens. There's nothing wrong with an inquisitive, predictive nature, but personally, I like to put that aside when a story is being told.

 

Also, no one has done it here I don't think, but I hate it when people turn how far in advance they figured it out into an e-peen contest. "Well it was TOTALLY obvious on the Endar Spire, so I'm going to take an arrogant better-than-you attitude, you moron."

God I hate that.

[Jediphile]

Actually, I didn't see the Revan-twist coming, and I probably should have done, especially since Vrook basically gave it all away during the conversation with him on Dantooine. Still, I didn't really want it to be so - I had been so impressed with all the background about Revan that it was really disappointing to learn that it was not background at all

 

But yes, It's annoying to hear people's boasts about how they saw it all coming. It always makes me think of what Tad Williams attributes to Binabik's troll folk in the preface of "The Dragonbone Chair":

 

"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only at the beginning of them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder."

 

My sentiments exactly.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

I didn't see it coming. And yes it is annoying with all the people that think they're so cool cuz they figured it out. Maybe some people just didn't think about it that much. Maybe some people like to just play the game and see what happens without guessing at everything so we can boast about being right on the internet. (not that that is their real intention, but that is how it comes across)

[jonathan7]

See I had pretty much figured it out, but I agree with Jediphile, in that I would have enjoyed it much more if I was 'oohhh I had never seen that coming' than the fact I kind of thought that was coming (the whole Saul Karath thing with Colo Nord and asking for a word in private without the men listening), was when I was like hmmm, maybe I am Revan. Also the whole thing at Kasyhhk (sp) with the Star Map thing going on about you brain having been changed. Anyways, I dont consider myself cool, or better than anyone because I figured the plot twist out in a SW game, hardly makes me the chosen one does it! ;-)

[The Architect]

I'm sorry if I came off as an arrogant jerk people. That was not my intention. I shouldn't brag about how I saw the twist coming. I apologize for being a bigoted jackass.

 

The thing about the foreseeable twist in K1, some people should realize that it depends on the player. What I mean is that not everyone cares about it being predictable. Maybe its just me, but when I play and game or watch any movie, I don't try to guess what's coming. Even if its easy to tell and there are plenty of hints, I'd rather listen to the story. Trying to guess the ending when the story is still being told is like looking up spoilers just for the hell of it, IMO. So I don't bother even thinking about it.

 

Umm...why can't you do both? Yes, you're right that in a movie, it would be difficult to do both, but you see, it's different with a video game. When I first got K1, in my first play through, I played on it for about 2-3 hours a day.

 

So, when I wasn't playing on it, I had time to think about the story, and go over the clues I had picked up on. I could explain why I thought I was Revan, but that could potentially be a massive post, so...erm...I'll leave it at that.

 

Basically, I figured out that I was Revan when I wasn't playing on K1. Sure, I agree that if you spent too much time trying to guess what's coming while playing the game, you'll probably lose touch with the progression of your story, since your mind needs to be focused on the events that are occuring, not what occured before hand.

 

But when you're not playing the game, it's a different kettle of fish. I'm guessing that those who did not figure out the twist either:

 

a) Overlooked the clues

b) Never took a break from playing K1 up until the plot twist

c) Didn't like the idea of being the amnesic ex-Dark Lord

d) Weren't trying to guess what was coming

e) Weren't expecting another major plot twist in the same franchise

f) a combination of these things

g) all of the above

 

Even then, leading up to it it was hard not to think, "Crap, I'm blah blah blah aren't I?" Its not like there weren't enough hints. All I'm saying is that some people are able to just enjoy the story as it happens. There's nothing wrong with an inquisitive, predictive nature, but personally, I like to put that aside when a story is being told.

 

Sure but what about when you're not playing K1? Did you play it 24-7? Or when you weren't playing K1, you weren't thinking about it at all? I was at the time, but only because I knew something fishy was going on.

 

It started when I was on Taris as Carth said the Jedi strike team 'killed' Revan, but we clearly see in that second vision just after you meet Bastila that someone else 'killed' Revan, yet the Jedi Council lie to you, and say it was the strike team that 'killed' Revan. What the hell?

 

Also, no one has done it here I don't think, but I hate it when people turn how far in advance they figured it out into an e-peen contest. "Well it was TOTALLY obvious on the Endar Spire, so I'm going to take an arrogant better-than-you attitude, you moron."

God I hate that.

 

Whoa, I'm sorry JawaJoey. I'm sorry Jediphile, and I'm sorry to others for bragging about how I saw the twist coming. The truth is, I did see it coming though, and I did think that it was an easy twist to figure out. I didn't mean to come off as an obnoxious turd though.

[Ambrose]

You're fine Architect, I didn't think you sounded arrogant or offensive at all

 

In any case, I personally did not see it coming, for reasons quite similar to JawaJoey's. I just don't LOOK for unexpected twists. The huge amount of background fauna in the story was more than enough to distract me from the imminent plot twist (which is, in retrospect, quite obvious- but ONLY in retrospect, at least for me).

[Sir Vougalot]

I saw the twist coming because I was dumb enough to read ahead in the strategy guide,

[Diego Varen]

I saw the twist coming because I was dumb enough to read ahead in the strategy guide,

 

That just spoils the game for you, in my opinion...

[jonathan7]

I'm sorry if I came off as an arrogant jerk people. That was not my intention. I shouldn't brag about how I saw the twist coming. I apologize for being a bigoted jackass.

 

LOL, I don't think your any of these things dude an i didn't think you came across as any of these things.

[Sir Vougalot]

That just spoils the game for you, in my opinion...

No crap! That was the entire point of my post.