Did Bastila Know?

[The Sith'ari]

Within healthy discussion in another thread of this forum another question was raised: Did Bastila recognise the republic officer as Revan in Taris? Did she know it from the very beginning?

 

EDIT: I know Revan and Bastila has a bond between them so Bastila probably could feel it. But no one can tell if she was sure. What I'm really trying to discuss is whether the Jedi Council let her know already, whether Bastila had been TOLD that "This is Revan. Keep an eye on him."

 

When I say the negative, here's why:

1) "Have you heard of a little thing called 'The Force'?" If she knew he's Revan, I just find it a bit scary she's having this condescending attitude, no matter how much of a "grunt" Revan was in Taris.

 

2) "Isn't you the republic soldier transferred to the Endar Spire?" Yes, Bastila exclaimed. But her exclamation came out smoothly and naturally. She wasn't like, "Isn't you...isn't you the republic soldier transferred to the Endar Spire?"

If she really knew, as a reflex, wouldn't she at least stumble a bit like later she did in the game? Note that she stumbled even in some later conversation, I don't understand why she managed to suppress her shock when she FIRST saw Revan.

 

3) She fierily accused Revan and Malak in Taris, showed no hesitation in discussing their deeds. But later after the course of Danatooine, she seemed to show much reserve when the topic involved Revan. If Bastila knew, wouldn't she want to avoid talking too much of Revan least he remembers something?

 

4) It's argued that Bastila mentioning Revan's force potentials in the beginning is suspicious. Somone even thinks she had a "blow on the head" when she did that. *smirks* But what she said, approximately, was this: "No one would have come this far without the help of the Force". Well, attributing the success of Revan to the Force would just be another way to boast herself, she being a force-sensitive. Thus I can see all the reason why she said that, even if she wasn't aware it's Revan she's talking to.

 

Also, Revan WAS strong in the Force. Bastila being a jedi was just natural to have felt this and spelt it out. In fact, if she didn't mention ANYTHING about Revan's connection to the Force, THAT would be suspicious.

 

5) Even from the visions, we don't know if Bastila unmasked Revan on the bridge. She saved him through the Force, not a kiss.

 

Discuss please.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

I think ur topic should contain a "SPOILER" on the title, but here it goes:

 

Within healthy discussion in another thread of this forum another question was raised: Did Bastila recognise the republic officer as Revan in Taris? Did she know it from the very beginning?

 

When I say the negative, here's why:

1) "Have you heard of a little thing called 'The Force'?" If she knew he's Revan, I just find it a bit scary she's having this condescending attitude, no matter how much of a "grunt" Revan was in Tari.

 

She was young and headstrong and that is her way to act, you know.

 

2) "Isn't you the republic soldier transferred to the Endar Spire?" Yes, Bastila exclaimed. But her exclamation came out smoothly and naturally. She wasn't

like, "Isn't you...isn't you the republic soldier transferred to the Endar Spire?"

If she really knew, as a reflex, wouldn't she at least stumble a bit like later she did in the game? Note that she stumbled even in some later conversation, I don't understand why she managed to suppress her shock when she FIRST saw Revan.

 

I guess she knew how strong in the Force Revan was, and she had no doubt about Revan's potential.

 

3) She fierily accused Revan and Malak in Taris' date=' showed no hesitation in discussing their deeds. But later after the course of Danatooine, she seemed to show much reserve when the topic involved Revan. [/quote']

 

The Reavn she was talking about, was another Revan (If ur character is LS), this new Revan has a second chance to redeem himself helping the Republic to crush the Sith.

 

If ur Revan is set DS, then its like a lecture: She's showing ur character the danger that the DS means.

 

4) It's argued that Bastila mentioning Revan's force potentials in the beginning is suspicious. Somone even thinks she had a "blow on the head" when she did that. *smirks* But what she said' date=' approximately, was this: "No one would have come this far without the help of the Force". Well, attributing the success of Revan to the Force would just be another way to boast herself, she being a force-sensitive. Thus I can see all the reason why she said that, even if she wasn't aware it's Revan she's talking to.[/quote']

 

Also, Revan WAS strong in the Force. Bastila being a jedi was just natural to have felt this and spelt it out. In fact, if she didn't mention ANYTHING about Revan's connection to the Force, THAT would be suspicious.

 

She was acting. It was all a big playhouse for her. And Revan didnt knew that.

 

5) Even from the visions' date=' we don't know if Bastila unmasked Revan on the bridge. She saved him through the Force, not a kiss. [/quote']

 

Oh, You think she wouldnt know what was the real face of Revan. C'mon, as you said, she requested him with the Endar Spire crew, of course she knew he was a Force sensitive and REVAN.

[dewayne26]

your cobclusion is flawed. She knew she had to know the boond between them was there if you listen to vandar later on dantooine. she also revan before revan left for the war. see kotor 2. and later on leviation she admits.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

I doubt she didn't know. Remember about their bond. That must've had some affect, so even if she didn't recognize his face, I'm sure she recognized his presence.

[Inyri]

"Have you heard of a little thing called 'The Force'?" If she knew he's Revan, I just find it a bit scary she's having this condescending attitude, no matter how much of a "grunt" Revan was in Tari.

I'm sure she knew. I'm equally sure, given what we know of her personality, that she held quite a bit of animosity toward Revan for falling as he did. This was probably a way for her to express that without saying "Oh my god, you're Revan and I hate you!"

 

"Isn't you the republic soldier transferred to the Endar Spire?" Yes, Bastila exclaimed. But her exclamation came out smoothly and naturally. She wasn't like, "Isn't you...isn't you the republic soldier transferred to the Endar Spire?"

If she really knew, as a reflex, wouldn't she at least stumble a bit like later she did in the game? Note that she stumbled even in some later conversation, I don't understand why she managed to suppress her shock when she FIRST saw Revan.

There are a few options here as to why she responded this way. (1) She was amazed he had survived and hadn't expected to see him. (2) She was happy to see him, despite her animosity toward him. After all, it was her mission to protect him. Isn't that why she was on the Endar Spire in the first place? (3) Lack of forethought on the part of the developers.

 

I always saw it more as a mixture of surprise and relief that she discovered him on Taris, hence her lack of "stumbling" as you put it.

 

She fierily accused Revan and Malak in Taris, showed no hesitation in discussing their deeds. But later after the course of Danatooine, she seemed to show much reserve when the topic involved Revan.

This one's quite easy to explain away. As I mentioned earlier, she quite dislikes Revan (not your PC, Revan - the Revan she has burned into her brain). In all likelihood, he represents a side of her, and of the Jedi, that she would like to ignore and bury in the closet. To deny completely, if possible. Upon reaching Dantooine she is reminded of her duties as a Jedi. Realizing she had been behaving childishly, she begins to exert some self restraint. After all, attacking someone verbally, even a Sith lord, is not the Jedi way.

 

Even from the visions, we don't know if Bastila unmasked Revan on the bridge. She saved him through the Force, not a kiss.

Let's consider this logically. Bastila saved Revan's life on the bridge of that ship. He was quite near death, in fact. Now pretend you had to give someone CPR, or some other life-saving assistance. Would you give them assistance whilst they were still covered head to toe in body armor? I think not.

 

It has always been my belief that Bastila, as well as likely all the Jedi stationed on the Endar Spire with her, knew of Revan's existence. It wouldn't make sense that the Council would send her aboard the Endar Spire with him without telling her who he was. In fact her later actions on Taris quite secured that fact for me, especially the statement mentioned earlier about how she indeed did not stumble upon recognizing him.

 

The lovely thing about this whole debate, though, is that you could easily argue for both sides. We'll never know the truth of it, and that's half the fun.

[The Sith'ari]

your cobclusion is flawed. She knew she had to know the boond between them was there if you listen to vandar later on dantooine. she also revan before revan left for the war. see kotor 2. and later on leviation she admits.

 

I doubt she didn't know. Remember about their bond. That must've had some affect, so even if she didn't recognize his face, I'm sure she recognized his presence.

What I'm trying to discuss is not whether Bastila felt Revan's presence, but whether Bastila was told and was sure that it's Revan. Sorry for confusing you.

 

I'm sure she knew. I'm equally sure, given what we know of her personality, that she held quite a bit of animosity toward Revan for falling as he did. This was probably a way for her to express that without saying "Oh my god, you're Revan and I hate you!"

Did Bastila really hate Revan I? Um... I think as a jedi who stand with the council she's prompted to speak against him, but secretly she admires Revan. I think some point in the game she admits it.

 

Let's consider this logically. Bastila saved Revan's life on the bridge of that ship. He was quite near death, in fact. Now pretend you had to give someone CPR, or some other life-saving assistance. Would you give them assistance whilst they were still covered head to toe in body armor? I think not.

But don't things work differently for the Force?

 

The lovely thing about this whole debate, though, is that you could easily argue for both sides. We'll never know the truth of it, and that's half the fun.

Thanks for the great attitude.

[Inyri]

Did Bastila really hate Revan I? Um... I think as a jedi who stand with the council she's prompted to speak against him, but secretly she admires Revan. I think some point in the game she admits it.

Sorry, I wasn't clear on that point. I didn't mean she hated him personally, I meant she hated what he stood for, as the Dark Lord. I more see it as something she feared, and perhaps feared would return. Fear always breeds anger, you know.

 

But don't things work differently for the Force?

Well I think the Force only goes so far. If it was all-powerful, no one would ever die whilst in the presence of a Jedi.

 

Thanks for the great attitude.

I love debates that have no definite answer! They last much longer, and are far more interesting. It's no fun when someone plops down and says "this is the way it is, and that's that."

[The Sith'ari]

The Reavn she was talking about, was another Revan (If ur character is LS), this new Revan has a second chance to redeem himself helping the Republic to crush the Sith.

This is not the point. It doesn't matter whether it's the same Revan she's talking about. Talkin' too much about Revan might revive some of Revan's memories, which is why she prevents this topic later in the journey. If she knew at the beginning, I think she should have been more reserved in the way she talked about Revan.

 

Oh, You think she wouldnt know what was the real face of Revan. C'mon, as you said, she requested him with the Endar Spire crew, of course she knew he was a Force sensitive and REVAN.

Did I say she requested him? I think it's the Council that enlisted him to the Endar Spire, not Bastila.

And the point is if she didn't recognise that face as Revan, even when she saw the face she wouldn't know it's Revan.

 

I love debates that have no definite answer! They last much longer, and are far more interesting. It's no fun when someone plops down and says "this is the way it is, and that's that."

I totally appreciate that. Really.

[dewayne26]

This is not the point. It doesn't matter whether it's the same Revan she's talking about. Talkin' too much about Revan might revive some of Revan's memories, which is why she prevents this topic later in the journey. If she knew at the beginning, I think she should have been more reserved in the way she talked about Revan.

 

 

Did I say she requested him? I think it's the Council that enlisted him to the Endar Spire, not Bastila.

And the point is if she didn't recognise that face as Revan, even when she saw the face she wouldn't know it's Revan.

 

 

I totally appreciate that. Really.

 

if i remember carth's statement right on taris he said it was bastila's party who requested your transfer, in theory if could been her or anyone of the jedi including the council. yes it possible she didn't know him. but if she knew Malak as the vision in kotor 2 suggest. then i think she knew Revan too.. that what i was refering to earlier

[Inyri]

If she knew at the beginning, I think she should have been more reserved in the way she talked about Revan.

I agree she should have been, but keep in mind that Bastila is very young. Her level of common sense is probably not fully developed. It's quite possible she got a good lecture from the council, which modified her outlook.

 

Did I say she requested him? I think it's the Council that enlisted him to the Endar Spire, not Bastila.

And the point is if she didn't recognise that face as Revan, even when she saw the face she wouldn't know it's Revan.

Carth: Don't get me wrong, it just seems odd that someone Bastila's party specifically requested to transfer aboard happened to survive.

Player: Why would Bastila request my transfer?

 

It seems quite obvious here that it was the party of Jedi onboard the Endar Spire that specifically requested Revan's presence. You could, of course, argue that they weren't told why, or that it wasn't Bastila (despite the fact that Carth doesn't deny that point), but you could also argue that even Jedi would question orders of seeming unimportance (especially Bastila - she's a bit nosy, don't you think? )

[ChAiNz.2da]

I always took it (at least upon first playing it).. that Bastila didn't know anything about you being Revan until after her meeting with the Masters on Dantooine.

 

It just seems her overall opinion of and towards you, afterwards, were geared moreso to questioning (maybe to find out a little more than what the Masters told her) and not as 'distant' as if she were given the specific task to watch over you and guide you towards the Jedi's agenda ( ) hehehe..

 

As for Bastila requesting you on the Spire, maybe that was her orders from an even higher power? Could explain as to why she sounds a little surprised after you 'rescue' her from the swoop bike gang.. sort of a

 

"Maybe the Masters know a little more something than they've been telling me since this stranger not only survived the Spire attack, but has also managed to rescue me".

 

She does mention in the conversation afterwards that she wonders how you were able to accomplish all of the feats leading up to her rescue

 

It's really only after the Dantooine meeting (after you become a Jedi that is) she has a change of attitude.. plus she's surprised when the Masters hesitate to train (re-train) you with her statement:

 

"Surely you feel the power within this man/woman?"

[Jae Onasi]

There's also the time on Dantooine where Carth mentioned that Bastila had come out of a meeting with the Masters looking very pale--I think that's the point where she was told.

[The Sith'ari]

Carth: Don't get me wrong, it just seems odd that someone Bastila's party specifically requested to transfer aboard happened to survive.

Player: Why would Bastila request my transfer?

 

It seems quite obvious here that it was the party of Jedi onboard the Endar Spire that specifically requested Revan's presence.

Oh, my bad. I got bad memory. Maybe constructive memory, since I feel Basty didn't know.

But yah, as you said, she could have been ordered to do so by the council without knowing the exact details.

Thanks for the quotes.

 

I always took it (at least upon first playing it).. that Bastila didn't know anything about you being Revan until after her meeting with the Masters on Dantooine.

Same here. Other than the factual reasons that I gave, it's my first impression that told me she didn't know.

[Vaelastraz]

Hm, I don't know about Bastila, but I would definitly recognize the person whose live I saved. Especially if that certain person was a Sith Lord which I confronted in battle...

 

Don't you think Bastila would at least know what the council decides to do with Revan? I think Bastila knew that the PC is Revan from the beginning, she might have gained some more information on Dantoine though.

[ChAiNz.2da]

Don't you think Bastila would at least know what the council decides to do with Revan?

Not necessarily.. In the movies, Anakin barely knew squat unless Obi-Wan told him or Palpatine leaked something out. The Masters seem to keep to themselves on secretive topics. Just like any governing body to be honest...

 

Even in the game the Council has both you & Bastila wait for them on the Ebon Hawk while they make a major decision.

 

----------------------

 

As far as saving Revan's life, unmasking, cpr, etc. in StarWars universe (or the games at least).. it seems saving someone consists of popping them with a stim until they can get to a med droid or "Kolto" tank Now of course, this doesn't discount the 'nosy' Jedi taking a peek mind you.. and if I were in the situation, I'd be tempted

 

Of course then you have the "comic-book" scenario that no matter how much you admire/hate the person, you do everything except go as far as to unmask the hero/villain. (yeah, I know, lame.. but it happens in every superhero movie/comic imaginable.. hehehe)..

 

Of course there's also the Jedi militant view whereas you get the "pow" mentality. He's a prisoner, what's underneath the mask is for the higher ranks, my mission is to capture/retrieve and bring back. Period. Bastila seems on first impression as to being someone who takes orders, not questions them... and since she had company when Revan was 'knocked the **** out' (he only force chokes 1 of the 3 Jedi in the party) she couldn't necessarily go against orders and start stripping the enemy down. Not to mention that you've just got one of the most powerful Sith Lords at your feet.. I'm grabbing one arm, the other person is grabbing the other... hehehe

[Jediphile]

This is not the point. It doesn't matter whether it's the same Revan she's talking about. Talkin' too much about Revan might revive some of Revan's memories, which is why she prevents this topic later in the journey. If she knew at the beginning, I think she should have been more reserved in the way she talked about Revan.

 

Meh. You mean how the masters are reserved when talking about Revan?

 

For me it's just a matter of how the game doesn't want to give too much away too soon. Up until you reach Dantooine, every single npc and his counsin have talked about Revan in some way or another.

 

And then what do the masters do on Dantooine? If you ask them about Revan, they talk your ears off so much you'll not only regret it, but actually so that your ears begin to bleed!

 

Had there been anymore talk about Revan after that, they might as well have put a bit sign in neon somewhere that said, "In case you haven't figured it yet, Sherlock, Revan's alive and is going to be important in this game!!!"

 

And note that during your various searches for the Star Maps *after* Dantooine is the time that is just prior to finding out what really became of Revan. It's not good foreshadowing to continually give clues to something right up until it happens. Usually you do it sometime before and then stop a good deal of time before you get to the actual revelation. And KotOR1 is no different.

[The Architect]

Within healthy discussion in another thread of this forum another question was raised: Did Bastila recognise the republic officer as Revan in Taris? Did she know it from the very beginning?

 

EDIT: I know Revan and Bastila has a bond between them so Bastila probably could feel it. But no one can tell if she was sure. What I'm really trying to discuss is whether the Jedi Council let her know already, whether Bastila had been TOLD that "This is Revan. Keep an eye on him."

 

She knew what happened to Revan. She knew what the Jedi Council did to Revan. She tells you this on the Leviathan. Also, don't you think that Bastila would have seen Revan's face before he/she fought in the Mandalorian Wars?

 

Also, why would the Jedi Council keep it a secret from Bastila? If she didn't know and they told her on Dantooine, then obviously it wasn't because they didn't want Bastila to know who that person was, because why wouldn't they have told her this earlier?

 

And, Carth said to Revan that "First Bastila came out looking like she saw a ghost, and now you do too" or something like that. To me, Revan and Bastila were both pale, because they both saw that vision of Revan and Malak.

 

When I say the negative, here's why:

1) "Have you heard of a little thing called 'The Force'?" If she knew he's Revan, I just find it a bit scary she's having this condescending attitude, no matter how much of a "grunt" Revan was in Taris.

 

I'm sure she knew. I'm equally sure, given what we know of her personality, that she held quite a bit of animosity toward Revan for falling as he did. This was probably a way for her to express that without saying "Oh my god, you're Revan and I hate you!"

 

2) "Isn't you the republic soldier transferred to the Endar Spire?" Yes, Bastila exclaimed. But her exclamation came out smoothly and naturally. She wasn't like, "Isn't you...isn't you the republic soldier transferred to the Endar Spire?"

If she really knew, as a reflex, wouldn't she at least stumble a bit like later she did in the game? Note that she stumbled even in some later conversation, I don't understand why she managed to suppress her shock when she FIRST saw Revan.

 

Actually, she does stumble. She says "Wait, I don't believe this, you're...you're one of the soldiers with the Republic fleet aren't you?"

 

She also says "Carth wouldn't have sent you if he wasn't confident in your...abilities."

 

And when you tell her that you saw a vision of her fighting Revan, she says:

 

"This is...strange."

 

Now, she knew what the Council did to Revan, so surely she must have figured out why you had that vision for. She can't be that stupid.

 

3) She fierily accused Revan and Malak in Taris' date=' showed no hesitation in discussing their deeds. But later after the course of Danatooine, she seemed to show much reserve when the topic involved Revan. If Bastila knew, wouldn't she want to avoid talking too much of Revan least he remembers something?[/quote']

 

No, because Carth was accusing the Jedi Council of 'dragging its feet' and Bastila was never good at suppressing her feelings, as she firmly believed that Revan and Malak were to blame for the cause of the Jedi Civil War and that the Council made the right decision, so she snapped at Carth.

 

4) It's argued that Bastila mentioning Revan's force potentials in the beginning is suspicious. Somone even thinks she had a "blow on the head" when she did that. *smirks* But what she said' date=' approximately, was this: "No one would have come this far without the help of the Force". Well, attributing the success of Revan to the Force would just be another way to boast herself, she being a force-sensitive. Thus I can see all the reason why she said that, even if she wasn't aware it's Revan she's talking to.[/quote']

 

Oh come on, she was told by the Council who Revan was, why do you think she asks you those questions regarding your 'fake identity' for? Because it was a test. She had foreknowledge. She had to know, and their was no reason why the Council had to keep it a secret from her.

 

It's also funny how on Taris, Bastila says to you that if you were born on a Republic world, the Jedi Order would have taken you for training much earlier. How does she know where you're from? She apparently doesn't even know you. Why would she assume that for?

 

You can be a strong force sensitive born in a Republic world and still not be trained by the Jedi Order, so I always found that odd, as she outright said that you weren't from a Republic world. She didn't even assume that you were.

 

Also' date=' Revan WAS strong in the Force. Bastila being a jedi was just natural to have felt this and spelt it out. In fact, if she didn't mention ANYTHING about Revan's connection to the Force, THAT would be suspicious.[/quote']

 

That's why she did mention about Revan's connection to the force, because as you said, it would be suspicious, and as ordered by the Council, she couldn't tell you the truth.

 

5) Even from the visions, we don't know if Bastila unmasked Revan on the bridge. She saved him through the Force, not a kiss.

 

Discuss please.

 

Why would Bastila not take Revan's mask off? Don't you think she wanted to see the face of the Dark Lord, the great hero of the Mandalorian Wars? Come on!

 

Even if the Council for some odd reason ordered Bastila not to take off Revan's mask, do you seriously think she could resist? This is Bastila we're talking about.

 

The question is, how could the Council possibly cover this up from Bastila? They must have taken off Revan's mask, and she must have been there to see it, because she knew what the Council did to Revan.

[Anakin Skywalker]

She already knew what Revan looked like, Revan left while she was a padawan, it's not like she wasn't born yet....

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Carth: Don't get me wrong, it just seems odd that someone Bastila's party specifically requested to transfer aboard happened to survive.

Player: Why would Bastila request my transfer?

 

Thanks for the quotes, InyrilForge.

[The Sith'ari]

Meh. You mean how the masters are reserved when talking about Revan?

The masters are not Bastila. I think it'd be fairer to compare Bastila's attitudes before and after.

 

For me it's just a matter of how the game doesn't want to give too much away too soon.

Maybe. I'm sure there're different perspectives to look at this matter.

 

She knew what happened to Revan. She knew what the Jedi Council did to Revan. She tells you this on the Leviathan.

Actually, I have to thank you, Architect. I know Bastila on the Leviathan confessed she knew it, but I thought she never explicitly pointed out *when* she knew it. Is it from the very beginning, or just after the meeting with the masters on Dantooine? Then I go check on the dialogues once more. Here's what Bastila said:

 

"I used my force powers to heal you on the bridge. We share a bond. I convinced the Council I could use our bond to draw out your memories and lead us to the Star Forge."

 

That suggests to me it's Bastila who initiated the plan. So, she must have known when Revan was recruited to serve under Bastila.

[The Doctor]

Of course she knew. She was assigned to use Revan's lost memories to discover how Revan and Malak created such a powerful fleet so quickly. Hard to do if she doesn't know who's memories she's supposed to be using.

[Nancy Allen``]

Say, why didn't Bastila immediately recognise Revan, as a Republic soldier, on Taris? Didn't she handpick Revan for the assignment? She would have recognised him either when pretending to be out of it or when fighting alongside him. How come she initially snaps at him when she had him brought along for the mission?

[Anakin Skywalker]

A simple question, to which I ask another...

 

Why didn't she tell him, while on Taris, that he was Revan? The Council would have never known, and as Jolee said, it was probably for best, that he knew who he was...

[Emperor Devon]

Why didn't she tell him, while on Taris, that he was Revan?

 

Because it's incredibly dangerous for Force-sensitives without any training against the dark side to know they were Sith Lords a few years ago.

[Nancy Allen``]

And aside from the obvious dangers of Revan knowing he was Revan there's the feelings Bastila has towards him as well. If she knew from the beginning, and since she was the one who chose him for the mission I'd go with that she did, she does not want the Revan she fought against. To push the idea further this could explain the issues Bastila has with Revan, as a soldier and Jedi, because of her encounter against Revan as...well as a warrior seeking to strengthen the Republic to fight the true Sith. I remember a fic where Revan laid out his reasoning to fight against the Mandalorians, and laid out a few truths about not fighting that, deliberately, hit close to home (things like Bastila being a Mandalorian whore if they won) which so angered Bastila. We don't know if anything like this actually took place but if Revan did say anything like this it makes sense.