EA to acquire BioWare

[Serpentine Cougar]

All I can say is, "Time will tell." It'll be interesting seeing what eventually comes of all this. I wish some companies would realize that if you let a developer take their time to perfect a game, it'll sell well because of that perfection. Good games aren't built in a day, or on the backs of slaves. But hey, even if Bioware dies, at least they're not the only good game developer out there.

 

LOL @ Syko.

[tk102]

So you're telling me that to make a great game you need a singleplayer with a rich story?

 

Couldn't have said it better.

[stoffe]

So you're telling me that to make a great game you need a singleplayer with a rich story?

 

Yes, that is pretty much my opinion for games that have any longevity (i.e. make you consider reinstalling them 6-10 years later for another replay). Rich story, interesting gameplay and atmosphere are important factors in what make a game good.

 

If I just want a 20 minute adrenaline kick when playing (which happens on occasion) the story is not quite as important, but those games are pretty much disposable once they're past their prime and newer, prettier-looking ones along the same generic theme has been released.

 

I played a fair bit on Unreal (1) and Unreal Tournament (1) a handful of years ago, when I was still bothering with multiplayer games. After playing for roughly a year I got tired of them though, and haven't quite felt compelled to buy any of the sequels since they're just more of the same which I'd already gotten tired of. I still replay Deus Ex every now and then, but would hardly bother digging up my old Unreal disc and play through that again.

 

Farcry was pretty, with nice environments and decent enemy AI, but the story was a typical generic FPS shooter one that felt more like an excuse to make you do things than anything. Gameplay was standard fare FPS like they've been for pretty much a decade. I played it for a couple of months before getting bored with it.

 

You tell that to the reviewers who have given UT, UT2004 and FarCry 9+/10 scores. And to the millions who frag each other in an addicted daze on UT servers everyday.

 

Different people have different tastes.

 

Fortunately I don't require the approval of people who are professionally opinionated to decide if I may consider a game good or bad, nor is peer pressure any major factor to weigh in. I'm quite capable of forming opinions on my own.

 

I quite frequently find myself disagreeing with reviewer scores when they give stellar scores to games with pretty surface but little substance, and poorer scores to games that are in my opinion much better (System Shock 2, Deus Ex, VtM:Bloodlines etc). It looks like there is a fair deal of peer pressure among reviewers, almost like they feel compelled to give massively hyped games high scores since everyone is already convinced of their excellence. As such I don't put much weight on what reviewers think any more, preferring to go by either word of mouth, reputation or trying out demos myself.

[Negative Sun]

Couldn't have said it better.

I could have, using one word: Lightsabers!

[Sabretooth]

Yes, that is pretty much my opinion for games that have any longevity (i.e. make you consider reinstalling them 6-10 years later for another replay). Rich story, interesting gameplay and atmosphere are important factors in what make a game good.

 

If I just want a 20 minute adrenaline kick when playing (which happens on occasion) the story is not quite as important, but those games are pretty much disposable once they're past their prime and newer, prettier-looking ones along the same generic theme has been released.

 

Yay, I'm debating with stoffe!

 

While I see where you're coming from, I disagree when you say that only the games with a rich story and atmosphere are the best. How about Mario, or Pong, Tetris and all those forefathers of gaming? The way I see it, stories should not be taken for granted in games, because it is perfectly possible to make a fun game without any real story.

 

While a majority goes on to the next version of a game, that doesn't mean a game isn't great. Longevity and replayability are certainly not deciding factors for how fun a game is. A game can be immersive, but ultimately it's meant to be fun (as opposed to books, movies and such).

 

I played a fair bit on Unreal (1) and Unreal Tournament (1) a handful of years ago, when I was still bothering with multiplayer games. After playing for roughly a year I got tired of them though, and haven't quite felt compelled to buy any of the sequels since they're just more of the same which I'd already gotten tired of. I still replay Deus Ex every now and then, but would hardly bother digging up my old Unreal disc and play through that again.

 

Agreed, I consider Deus Ex to be one of the greatest games ever made and it is my most beloved game because of its very atmosphere, storyline and stuff. But if I ask myself in a raw sense, I find UT more fun because it is readily accessible, easy to play and doesn't require a lot of thinking. You can call me dumb for that, but again, great games need not only be made for Einsteins.

 

UT's sequels do take the graphics further, but there is still a very strong UT community out there, which is comparable to the CS community. Many do migrate to the sequels, but UT's persistence is proof that it was way above average in its time.

 

Farcry was pretty, with nice environments and decent enemy AI, but the story was a typical generic FPS shooter one that felt more like an excuse to make you do things than anything. Gameplay was standard fare FPS like they've been for pretty much a decade. I played it for a couple of months before getting bored with it.

 

Again, we go to longevity. I'll admit that Far Cry's story is a sorry excuse, but then you have to accept that. As a game, Far Cry was an exceptional experience with its AI, difficulty, instinct-factor and what-not. And here I can express something plaguing my mind that I've pinpointed. You know you're playing a great game when you feel it's a great game the first run you make through it, not in the four hundred ones you make later. Far Cry was a brilliant experience, IMO and it's certainly one of the best shooters I've played.

 

Different people have different tastes.

 

Fortunately I don't require the approval of people who are professionally opinionated to decide if I may consider a game good or bad, nor is peer pressure any major factor to weigh in. I'm quite capable of forming opinions on my own.

 

Got nothing against ya there!

 

I quite frequently find myself disagreeing with reviewer scores when they give stellar scores to games with pretty surface but little substance, and poorer scores to games that are in my opinion much better (System Shock 2, Deus Ex, VtM:Bloodlines etc). It looks like there is a fair deal of peer pressure among reviewers, almost like they feel compelled to give massively hyped games high scores since everyone is already convinced of their excellence. As such I don't put much weight on what reviewers think any more, preferring to go by either word of mouth, reputation or trying out demos myself.

 

I agree there, though I wonder what sane reviewer has given Deus Ex or System Shock 2 a bad score. Vampire I've played a long while ago, and IIRC, other than its character creation system, replayability and storyline (and atmosphere), it had very little going for it. Combat was bland, pacing slow and load times horrendous (I mean like you have to go through 5 loading screens worth half an hour to get to point B). Won't say it was a bad game, but it certainly falls more than a little below System Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

 

*gleefully awaits response*

[SykoRevan]

^ This gets my vote in this year's Post of the Year Award

 

Right on!

 

SykoRevan is now ****ing epic.

 

SykoRevan is my HERO.

 

I'm truly flattered and honored, guys. Trust me, if you take the time out of your day to flip off a local EA studio, it will make your life just a little bit sweeter. I'm already planning to make another trip to Maitland, and this time, I am going INSIDE EA Tiburon, to get revenge on Superman and BioWare!

 

Please share @ youtube.com

 

Alas, I am about to break a few hearts. The camcorder I used that day is an old-school VHS recorder, and I don't have the technology or the knowledge of how to put it on my computer, or else it would have been on YouTube weeks ago

 

There's actually another humorous event concerning that camcorder on that day. About after an hour, I changed the tape and the batteries in in the camcorder, since it had been on the whole time. It was at that point that an actual EA employee (or just one of their many slaves) came out, and said that he had orders to confiscate the video tape holding the footage. This guy was one of those nightclub big bouncer types, but he seemed kinda gullible (one of the reasons he works at EA, huh?). Of course, I told him it was right in the camcorder. So he took out the tape (which, as I said before, was just put in, and thus blank. The actual footage was in my pocket ) Then, to sweeten the deal, he ripped apart the tape right in front of me. If he would have just held on to it, he would have realized it was blank, but EA employees aren't really known for their foresight, are they? I mean, if they were, they would stop making one NFL, NHL, MLB, and NBA game a year and actually make a game with a foreseeable future as a promising game with alot of longevity, like KotOR. Of course, the bouncer holding me (literally) on the spot until the cops carted me off kinda bummed the day, but I restored my happiness after watching the tape with some friends from the YMCA, and laughing. Of course, I already knew the ending, which was me screaming out "I'll give ya $1000 if you go one year without an NFL game!" to a guy going to his car who actually looked pretty high up in EA Tiburon, what with his expensive-looking suit, personal assistant, and shoe-shine slave. (You have to wonder if I'm actually joking about the shoe-shine slave ) Of course, it was that guy who called the cops, as well as the hired muscle to take my "footage" and hold me on the spot until the cops arrived, so maybe I should have left that guy alone.... on second thought, naaaaah. That was the best part of the day, watching him actually bump his head trying to hurry inside his car, like he was afraid I'd throw my giant middle finger sign at him. I was thinking about it, too

 

Well, that's enough of my reminiscing. On with the discussions!

 

How about Mario, or Pong, Tetris and all those forefathers of gaming?

 

As a full-blown Tetris addict, I have to agree with Sabretooth. Some games have almost no story, but are still very addictive. Of course, those games were born at a point where there was none before, so nobody really had anything to compare Pong and Tetris to, and Mario was the real breakthrough as it was IIRC the first platformer where you actually controlled a person. I think MMORPG's are a better example, especially MapleStory (shaddup!). Some MMO's have almost no unique story, since everyone playing the game is kinda doing the same story, so you can't really make a good story in an MMO that gives your character a unique and superior position, but they're still fun to play. That's because they bring something else to the table, something that takes people away from the lack of an epic story. For instance, I once saw a guy on MapleStory beat up a red ribbon-wearing pig with a giant frozen fish. That alone just made me go "I am so IN!" Other MMO's bring other things to the table, but I don't play any others (I refuse to pay any subscription fees!) so I can't really vouch for them.

 

*gleefully awaits response*

 

*waits with Sabretooth*

[JediMaster76]

I think I just died inside...

 

Firstly, let me start by saying *a tear shed for those lost* . Anyway, as others have mentioned before, whether this move will be for good or ill is any body's guess, though other independent companies probably took a heavy blow when they heard the news. And I for one, kind of disagree with EA's 'takeover' of the two companies, but alas...

 

A lot of people have been talking about BioWare and KoTOR III, and that's probably because they produced higher quality/more 'unique' games, but what about Pandemic? What will become of our beloved Battlefront? There is no way in the name of all that's logical that LA will allow Pandemic to make Battlefront III, which is really quite a pity.

[Rev7]

 

 

Alas, I am about to break a few hearts. The camcorder I used that day is an old-school VHS recorder, and I don't have the technology or the knowledge of how to put it on my computer, or else it would have been on YouTube weeks ago

 

There's actually another humorous event concerning that camcorder on that day. About after an hour, I changed the tape and the batteries in in the camcorder, since it had been on the whole time. It was at that point that an actual EA employee (or just one of their many slaves) came out, and said that he had orders to confiscate the video tape holding the footage. This guy was one of those nightclub big bouncer types, but he seemed kinda gullible (one of the reasons he works at EA, huh?). Of course, I told him it was right in the camcorder. So he took out the tape (which, as I said before, was just put in, and thus blank. The actual footage was in my pocket ) Then, to sweeten the deal, he ripped apart the tape right in front of me. If he would have just held on to it, he would have realized it was blank, but EA employees aren't really known for their foresight, are they? I mean, if they were, they would stop making one NFL, NHL, MLB, and NBA game a year and actually make a game with a foreseeable future as a promising game with alot of longevity, like KotOR. Of course, the bouncer holding me (literally) on the spot until the cops carted me off kinda bummed the day, but I restored my happiness after watching the tape with some friends from the YMCA, and laughing. Of course, I already knew the ending, which was me screaming out "I'll give ya $1000 if you go one year without an NFL game!" to a guy going to his car who actually looked pretty high up in EA Tiburon, what with his expensive-looking suit, personal assistant, and shoe-shine slave. (You have to wonder if I'm actually joking about the shoe-shine slave ) Of course, it was that guy who called the cops, as well as the hired muscle to take my "footage" and hold me on the spot until the cops arrived, so maybe I should have left that guy alone.... on second thought, naaaaah. That was the best part of the day, watching him actually bump his head trying to hurry inside his car, like he was afraid I'd throw my giant middle finger sign at him. I was thinking about it, too

Quick on your feet eh? That is a classic "trick" ,and that made me laugh when I read that.

Anyways, EA bought Bioware fair and square. It may cause many to mourn, but EA rightfully purchased Bioware and I guess should be congradulated on their accomplishment. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Bioware leave, but I guess it was just meant to be...

[Ztalker]

 

PS: Is this better, Jae?

[Sabretooth]

OK guys, he's not even that epic. We don't even have material proof of the activities he has described.

 

*jumps to save-my-soul wicker basket*

[stoffe]

How about Mario, or Pong, Tetris and all those forefathers of gaming? The way I see it, stories should not be taken for granted in games, because it is perfectly possible to make a fun game without any real story.

 

Matter of taste again, since I don't like that sort of games. I've never understood why Tetris is so popular, a game you can't win or succeed in, where the ultimate purpose is just to stave off your inevitable defeat as long as you can. It's an exercise in stress building. There's enough stress in everyday life, don't need that in my spare time entertainment as well. And I guess I enjoy winning too much to appreciate that sort of game.

 

Longevity and replayability are certainly not deciding factors for how fun a game is. A game can be immersive, but ultimately it's meant to be fun (as opposed to books, movies and such).

 

Sure, a game with no replay value can still be fun. But a game with replay value, that you find yourself wanting to return to, is fun for a longer time, and you get more entertainment for your money.

 

 

Agreed, I consider Deus Ex to be one of the greatest games ever made and it is my most beloved game because of its very atmosphere, storyline and stuff. But if I ask myself in a raw sense, I find UT more fun because it is readily accessible, easy to play and doesn't require a lot of thinking.

 

Different forms of entertainment value. Short adrenaline fests can be fun when I'm in the mood for that, though if I had to rank games in terms of greatness those with a deeper story and gameplay would rank higher than those having you just running through corridors shooting anything that moves. Deus Ex is polish, immersion, atmosphere, storytelling and choice, mixed up with combat. Perhaps not the greatest game for running and gunning, but on a whole a lot better as a game overall than generic shooters, in my opinion. As a "jack of all trades" game it might be hard to be Master of All as well, but they succeeded in being just good enough at the different genres included to make the game enjoyable.

 

UT's sequels do take the graphics further, but there is still a very strong UT community out there, which is comparable to the CS community. Many do migrate to the sequels, but UT's persistence is proof that it was way above average in its time.

 

Unreal Tournament was fun, but after playing it for a while that fun factor started to diminish when I got bored with it and it started feeling like daily routine, almost like a second job rather than entertainment. UT is by no means a bad game, but I would hardly put it on my top 10 list of Greatest Games Ever.

 

 

I wonder what sane reviewer has given Deus Ex or System Shock 2 a bad score. Vampire I've played a long while ago, and IIRC, other than its character creation system, replayability and storyline (and atmosphere), it had very little going for it.

 

Fairly many reviewers gave Deus Ex and SS2 a relatively low score compared to what it deserved, though I've noticed that many review sites have gone back and changed their initial reviews, bumping up the score after the game became a classic. I guess they wouldn't want to be the Dick Rowe of game reviewing.

 

I suspect the biggest problem with reviews of games like DX, SS2 and VtM is that the review sites think "Hmm, it has a first person interface and guns... let's give it to the Quake-adrenaline-junkie reviewer and let him have a go at reviewing it". Which is sort of asking McCarthy to write an objective and nuanced review of communism in America. This was pretty evident in System Shock 2 reviews since many compared the game to Half-Life which was released at roughly the same time, even though the games are in different genres.

 

I (obviously) disagree with your assessment of Bloodlines. It has very much the same going for it that Deus Ex has, though the atmosphere is more in the Horror direction. It was, in my opinion, a brilliant game that was somewhat stunted by a clunky technical implementation. But that's something which can be overlooked when a game otherwise is that good. A rather play a great game with a poor engine, than a ****ty game using the most optimized engine ever... even though I'd of course rather have a great game with a good engine.

[Negative Sun]

Well, it's time to get some answers!

Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk, founders of BioWare, are having a Q&A about the company's future, and there's still time to post a burning question of your own right here at the BioWare forums...I've posted mine:

 

Because of the deal with Microsoft, is there any chance that Mass Effect might come to PC under DX10? Or will that depend on EA now?[/Quote]

Simple, yet the only thing I'm really concerned about...

[lukeiamyourdad]

Pandemic speaks:

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6181078.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=multimodule&tag=multimodule;picks;title;6

 

Basically, they assure us that they'll keep their independence, citing Blizzard and Rockstar as examples of companies able to pump out great games while being part of a greater entity.

 

Except that both Rockstar and Blizzard have made incredibly successful games that pumped money into their company, Pandemic does not have a franchise like GTA or StarCraft to be the bigger player in negotiations. Still skeptical about all of this.

[Serpentine Cougar]

Good point, lukeiam! But while Pandemic might not have such spectacular franchises as those two companies, maybe Bioware does. Or maybe they can use their reputation as RPG-masters to the same effect. Here's hoping!

 

One of the things they said in that interview caught my eye:

I mean our goal at the end of the day is to get that 13-year-old kid or that 35-year-old kid to spend their allowance on our games. That's what counts. That's what's important to us.

Pandemic says: "We want your money!!!"

 

(Sorry, don't take that comment seriously; just pokin' fun. )

[Sabretooth]

It was, in my opinion, a brilliant game that was somewhat stunted by a clunky technical implementation. But that's something which can be overlooked when a game otherwise is that good.

 

"somewhat stunted"? It was plain out broken with it! Okay, exaggeration to the left, but as I kept playing it, I knew it could have been a plain out stellar game. The combat was terrible and the parts where the story went stagnant were painfully boring. I bet things would have been better had they not used the Source engine - that thing is clearly built only for Half-Life-ish goodness. *is resisting the urge to suggest Unreal engine*

 

As for the rest of the post, I can say that we boil down to differences in taste and flavour, which we must take with a pinch of salt, since this isn't our cup of tea and the cake is a lie. Man, that's a pungasm.

[Char Ell]

Well, it's time to get some answers!

Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk, founders of BioWare, are having a Q&A about the company's future, and there's still time to post a burning question of your own right here at the BioWare forums...I've posted mine:

Because of the deal with Microsoft, is there any chance that Mass Effect might come to PC under DX10? Or will that depend on EA now?

Simple, yet the only thing I'm really concerned about...

Thanks for the heads up on the "ask Ray and Greg a question" thread on the BioBoards. I posted one of my own.

 

As far as Mass Effect making it to PC goes, I know that option isn't even available to BioWare until the exclusive period for Mass Effect is over. Microsoft paid BioWare a good chunk of change to make Mass Effect an Xbox 360 exclusive and BioWare is contractually restricted from releasing Mass Effect on any other platform, including PC, for a specified length of time. I just don't know how long the exclusive period is but my guess is at least a year. And since this is an already executed contract this will not be impacted at all by the EA acquisition. I do tend to think EA will be more supportive of multi-platform title support going forward.

[Rogue Nine]

I think I must be the only person on the planet (or at least this board) that doesn't really care about this whole thing. All the EA games I play (The Sims 2, Command & Conquer series, most EA Sports titles) work just fine for me. And if BioWare is going to be allowed to retain their autonomy for the most part, I fail to see why EA taking over is a bad thing.

[deathdisco]

Drew K's 2 cents

Damn. I just got back from Vegas last week and all I can say is "sweet mother of Jabba"!

 

In case you hadn't heard: the company I work for, video game developer BioWare - makers of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - has been bought out by mega-corp Electronic Arts.

 

But before everyone starts freaking out, let's keep things in perspective. There's a lot of speculation out there, and I'll admit EA doesn't have the greatest reputation among gamers. But some of that comes from just being the biggest kid on the playground; everyone hates Microsoft and everyone hates EA. It's like a badge of honor to bash them... but then most people still buy their stuff anyway.

 

Also, and this is critical, it's important to remember that this is a new regime at EA. (Regime? Is that the right word? Close enough.) The man in charge of EA now is John Riccitiello, and he's actually worked with BioWare before in his role with Elevation partners. I was in meetings about Mass Effect with him, and this guy knows games. And I know for a fact he actually cares about quality in games. So before everyone starts crying about the death of BioWare, let's give John (Mr. Riccitiello?) a chance to walk the walk and see what happens. Personally, I think it'll be pretty much business as usual for us down in the trenches, but with a bigger stick to swing around when we need to make an impact in the marketplace. (Did that make sense? Whatever... it's late.)

[Char Ell]

And if BioWare is going to be allowed to retain their autonomy for the most part, I fail to see why EA taking over is a bad thing.

(emphasis mine)

 

That is the key issue for me, will BioWare have enough autonomy to be able to tell their soon-to-be parent company that they need more time on a game and EA won't tell them "too bad, we're releasing it anyway?" It seems like that won't be a concern in the short term. We'll just have to wait and see how this works out in the long term.

[Negative Sun]

Think of what LA did to KotOR 2, sure it's still a great game, but horribly rushed as we all know, a little longer in production and it would have been even better than it is now...BioWare might still develop some great games, but if they are being put under more pressure from deadlines from EA I doubt their quality can remain up to the standard it is now, especially if you keep in mind that BioWare is a developer that likes to take its time with titles, whereas EA just wants titles in time for Xmas or the new football season or whatever.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the "ask Ray and Greg a question" thread on the BioBoards. I posted one of my own.

NP, I noticed it over in the Jade Empire forums at BioWare and I thought I'd share cause obviously a lot of people have a lot of questions for BioWare right now...

[RyuuKage]

Think of what LA did to KotOR 2, sure it's still a great game, but horribly rushed as we all know, a little longer in production and it would have been even better than it is now...BioWare might still develop some great games, but if they are being put under more pressure from deadlines from EA I doubt their quality can remain up to the standard it is now, especially if you keep in mind that BioWare is a developer that likes to take its time with titles, whereas EA just wants titles in time for Xmas or the new football season or whatever.

 

Agreed. EA is not a good publisher, and i doubt they'd allow even a company as great as BioWare the necessary development time to continue their slew of good games. EA wants money, wants it fast, and doesn't care about maintaining a consistent customer base outside of Madden gamers. LA hasn't been much better in recent years, but i see them improving their strategy with Force Unleashed, which they've been spending several years on already. Good signs. Hopefully LA would have more influence than EA over a BioWare-made KotOR game.

[Negative Sun]

LA would will have more influence than EA over a BioWare-made KotOR game.

Fixed

 

It's a fact, EA has no leverage whatsoever besides maybe BioWare's Oddysey engine now, but they're far from having an exclusive Star Wars franchise on their hands...

[Darth InSidious]

...Evidently, I am the only one who thinks that SykoRevan's described methods are classless and just slightly moronic.

 

Clearly assassination of key members of Bioware's ruling élite at the next E3 is the way to go.

[Corinthian]

Not really, Insidious. I thought they were fairly immature, too. And, to be honest, I've got my doubts he actually did what he claims.

[ChAiNz.2da]

* ChAiNz.2da dies *

 

So does this mean we will get KotOR 2008, KotOR 2009, KotOR 2010? You know, minor to no gameplay changes, a slightly changed party roster and generic packaging?

 

Don't do this to me BioWare... please