Mono_Giganto Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 What I'm really trying to point out is all Jedi are weak and powerful at the same time. All have their weaknesses, and all have their strength. It's just the weaknesses that people forget. Actually, if you comb this thread, you'll find many, many examples given of both sides' weaknesses. Primarily, Revan's loss of memory and Anakin's lack of experience, though there are others. They haven't been forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Hunger Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 What I'm really trying to point out is all Jedi are weak and powerful at the same time. All have their weaknesses, and all have their strength. It's just the weaknesses that people forget. And yet strangely you can only cite Revan's weaknesses and none of his strengths while citing Anakin's strengths and none of his weaknesses. For the record, have I cited Anakin's strengths in my own posts? Yes, I have cited that immense Force potential he has. But I am being realistic and recognizing that massive power can only get you so far without focus. That's why Revan, with a somewhat lesser amount of potential and lots of focus, wins hands down. Does Revan have a weakness? I'd say yes, because in the case of his Sith Empire and war to Save the Galaxy from the True Sith he tried to have it both ways: benevolent Sith. While such a thing is perfectly possible, it is very difficult given the influence that Exar Kun's lot have had over all subsequent versions of the Sith ideology. Also, since the Sith hold a more individualist approach, its followers are generally less inclined to be helpful. However, it might have been possible for Revan over time to remove the random cruelty and betrayal that only serves to weaken Sith rather than empower them. Yet Revan wanted them to be perfect off the bat. Should he have foreseen Malak's betrayal? Not really. How do you foresee the betrayal of a friend so close you can call him brother? Ultimately Revan is still human, he is by no means a God or invincible or the greatest Jedi ever or the greatest Sith ever. However, he is obviously on a higher level than Anakin. A Dark Lord of the Sith, expert Force user, and brilliant strategist will defeat an extremely emotionally-unstable Jedi Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forogorn Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Eh...whatever I'm giving up...there's no point in posting something if people don't understand me...besides everyone disagrees with me...though my reasons are not stupid...they are just complicated...heck reasons back me up and yet people bring me down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono_Giganto Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Eh...whatever I'm giving up...there's no point in posting something if people don't understand me...besides everyone disagrees with me...though my reasons are not stupid...they are just complicated...heck reasons back me up and yet people bring me down. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we don't understand what you are trying to say, and no one's bringing you down; if you get involved in a debate, expect to be rebutted, especially when you don't support your claims (which you, so far, have not done, despite that "reasons back [you] up," as you put it. What reasons?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Hunger Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Yes, I'd also like to ask "What reasons?". But we're getting off topic here and the moderators did ask us to calm down. However, I don't see any new points since we covered just about everything and we're going around in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthJacen Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 As it will continue to go in circles when we compare two greats from different eras who would never face each other or even see each other. Even though, I'm sure Anakin learning about Revan in the Jedi Archives, maybe he even saw a Jedi holocron dating back to that time. The sith archive was locked to anyone lower than the rank of master, but as a Padawan and Knight he would have access to the rest of the archives of course. However, there is a potential way that we can get Revan and Anakin to face one another in mortal combat. And, that would be through video game simulation. Take Anakin from the Revenge of the Sith video game, and pit him against, let's go with lightside Revan, give them both the right AI and let them go at it. You can do this with Jedi Academy, anyway. Movie Battles II, for example, would be my best choice for setting up this match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Hunger Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Problems: 1) The PC of KOTOR is not Revan, but another individual sharing the same body. Revan is neither a strictly LS or DS individual. 2) While we do indeed know the extent of what sort of level Revan is on, I admit we do not have a specific list of powers he may have held. Also, the knowledge of the Ancient Sith is fairly unknown. We are talking about an Order descended from a group of Dark Jedi who explored and mastered the art of manipulating life on the fundamental level who interbred with a highly-force sensitive race. The sort of teachings that Exar Kun's lot discovered was likely a mere scratch on the surface of what later spawned the almost-unstoppable Sith Assassins of Malachor. 3) Simulations always have innate limitations. Terrain is always an important fact in combat. While I think JKA has a great engine, I think that the engine and effects of TFU would be much more suitable for such a simulation (even though my opinion of the plot is low). Even then, there would be limits. What will be the pre-fight conditions? Such things have an impact as well. I do think it's an interesting idea, I just don't see how it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthJacen Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Problems: 1) The PC of KOTOR is not Revan, but another individual sharing the same body. Revan is neither a strictly LS or DS individual. 2) While we do indeed know the extent of what sort of level Revan is on, I admit we do not have a specific list of powers he may have held. Also, the knowledge of the Ancient Sith is fairly unknown. We are talking about an Order descended from a group of Dark Jedi who explored and mastered the art of manipulating life on the fundamental level who interbred with a highly-force sensitive race. The sort of teachings that Exar Kun's lot discovered was likely a mere scratch on the surface of what later spawned the almost-unstoppable Sith Assassins of Malachor. 3) Simulations always have innate limitations. Terrain is always an important fact in combat. While I think JKA has a great engine, I think that the engine and effects of TFU would be much more suitable for such a simulation (even though my opinion of the plot is low). Even then, there would be limits. What will be the pre-fight conditions? Such things have an impact as well. I do think it's an interesting idea, I just don't see how it would work. Isn't there a television show that does this very thing with real life war heros from different eras? I think, it's on the History Channel. One problem I would see with the Force Unleashed engine is that it was designed with the PlayStation 3 in mind, not PC. And, my little dual core processor cannot comprehend what the eight core PS3 can understand. After doing this, we would have to remember to animate them with their unique lightsaber styles, too. You get a glimpse of Revan's style if you use all of the special attacks in random order. Anakin would use the styles from the Revenge of the Sith game. Second, both possess the Force Choke ability, although Anakin is not as quick to use it. Anakin's Force Push would be The Force Unleashed push, no doubt about that. When you have that much Force potential and you channel it all into your one living hand, something is going to go flying. (Even Obi-wan) From the Kotor experience, Revan's is less powerful but is area of effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ping Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Isn't there a television show that does this very thing with real life war heros from different eras? I think, it's on the History Channel. Yep. It's called Deadliest Warrior, but it's on Spike Channel instead of History. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthJacen Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forogorn Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Lets just say that the battle between them is a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Milk Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 I think the fact of the matter is, George says one thing, but does another... He states that Anakin is the Chosen one of Prophecy, and the most gifted Jedi of all era's, yet he only wins like one (Pre-suit) G-canon fight lol... he gets owned by Dooku, then kills the 80 yr old, then gets the greatest ass whooping and ownage in cinematic history, and put into an Iron lung, tragic hero maybe, but greatest Jedi ever... Nope. Revan is a Playable Character on a game, his feats are bound to be over the top and interesting... it's Your personal story. The Jedi and Sith of the films (Apart from some of Sidious powers and accomplishments) seem more like Ninjas or special Police officers than the fabled mystical warriors of the the Pre-Ruusan Republic. So I'll have to recount my Vote and say Draw, on the grounds of Lack of evidence and Canon status favoritism. You forget-Anakin was never said to be the most powerful Jedi of all time. He was the chosen one, the one who would bring balance to the force. He really almost did that, except Luke survived. I know that most people think that bringing the force into balance means getting rid of the darkside, but in my own opinion I think that bringing balance to the force would be getting rid of force users all together. Of course, the problem with my theory is the Emperor Hands(Mara and Lumiya right?) and Leia. If we eliminated them from the picture though, and if Luke had perished with his father, all of the practicing force users(known) would be dead. Lol, I might have gone a bit off topic there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 ^^^nope, George has said (While we are discussing the G canon) that killing the Emperor and Luke surviving did bring balance to the force, the Lightside prevailed and they all lived happily ever after... The End. But then he allowed the EU to be made which altered this fact. Topic: Where do I say Anakin is the most powerful Jedi ever in that quote? I used GL's words only bud and my Opinion was, that he is in fact Not the most Powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Scorcher Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 ^^^nope, George has said (While we are discussing the G canon) that killing the Emperor and Luke surviving did bring balance to the force, the Lightside prevailed and they all lived happily ever after... The End. But then he allowed the EU to be made which altered this fact.[/Quote] Actually, George Lucas said the EU was just a parrallel world from his: "There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. Topic: Where do I say Anakin is the most powerful Jedi ever in that quote? I used GL's words only bud and my Opinion was, that he is in fact Not the most Powerful. I have an opinion too, and it involves Palpatine vs. Revan, which I'm not gonna say since LoH would be on my tail for the rest of my life. Topic: I don't think Anakin is the most powerful Jedi either, at least not yet, he has potential, but he's not the most powerful Jedi ever. Let me revise my comparisons. Lightsaber Battle: Yes, they are both good fighters, but like Malak, Anakin has the tendency to rush into battle, which ends up being his downfall. Winner: Revan Battle of Force: This time I'm a bit more torn, we haven't seen Revan's full potential due to restricted game mechanics nor have we seen much from him from before his new memory. We haven't seen Anakin's full potential either since he was too ignorant to develop his powers (at least I think so, if anybody could clarify if that is true or not, I'd like to know). Winner: Yet to be decided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Actually, George Lucas said the EU was just a parrallel world from his: Again, where does my post dispute this? I'm just saying that when he spoke about ROTJ, He didn't Have any more stories to tell and that Anakin succeeded in bringing balance to the force, I merely mentioned the EU to note that I am a Fan, and I have investment in the NJO, Legacy era etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarsityPuppet Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Wow... well, this has gotten pretty heated (as all vs. threads generally do) Yes, I read ALL 5 pages of this, and I think there are some things that we need to learn from threads like this: 1. Don't play the Revan Fanboy card. Seriously, it's annoying on both sides. All of you who think "Revan is UbER 1337 need to gain some perspective." However, at the same time, blindly calling people Revan fanboys is equally annoying and insulting to those who like him for actual legitimate reasons. Take myself for instance. I like Revan because he had a grand master plan. Everything he ended up doing ended up contributing to some greater plan (dealing with the True Sith)... sure maybe he had some hiccups along the way and he perhaps unintentionally/accidentally ended up doing some things that helped him out later, but still.. Grand Plan. But what exactly did he do to execute this master plan, VP, and what was his master plan, huh? You fill in the blanks. I'm just here to establish that not all of us are fanboys. It's insulting. 2. G-canon is no fun. Might as well just call it the God-cannon, as whoever calls it has the right to blow you out of the debate. Whatever happened to free speech and independent thinking? Just because George Lucas says "Anakin is the chosen One" or "Greedo shot first" doesn't mean we have to follow and believe him blindly. Just go with your gut... and if your gut is loyal to G-canon, or C-canon, or non-canon then so be it. It's not like it matters anyways, because ultimately you shouldn't care what other people think. Just like RedHawke said, don't expect everyone to be on the same page. Hmm, now to contribute to this thread: They will both die. They are so equally matched that they will both strike to kill and succeed. Case dismissed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta 62 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Well Said VP. Its just a poll. No need to go and get serious about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Milk Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 ^^^nope, George has said (While we are discussing the G canon) that killing the Emperor and Luke surviving did bring balance to the force, the Lightside prevailed and they all lived happily ever after... The End. But then he allowed the EU to be made which altered this fact. Topic: Where do I say Anakin is the most powerful Jedi ever in that quote? I used GL's words only bud and my Opinion was, that he is in fact Not the most Powerful. My bad:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parmenides Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I don't want to enhance any controversy and heat up the argument, but I think a "draw" is a copout. In mortal combat, both rarely die. One might go to the hospital while the other to the grave, but rarely do we see both get the axe at the same time. It's just extremely rare unluck. As for "draw, both live." It's like saying, who would win, "Yoda vs. Mace Windu"? The easy copout answer would be: "Draw, they are both light side! They would never kill each other." Of course they would never kill each other, but that doesn't address a hypothetical question of who would actually win. Of who has greater combat abilities. Some fights end prematurely when interrupted by a 3rd party. But when 3rd party factors are involved, then we can't have a true "X vs. Y" debate. Revan and Anikan could fight then all of the sudden 20 jedis show up. Of course the situation would change. Breaks in fight due to interruptions don't help the debate. A real fight won't end, we are hypothesizing who would win. Remember we aren't asking what would happen if Revan and Anikan met. For all of you who voted draw, if you really like that vanilla "medium" answer, I think it would be better to say, "6 out of 10 times X would win over Y." (if you can try to avoid saying 5 times out of 10). Have the courage to say one side is more likely to win. Complex things are never a perfect 50/50 situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 A real fight won't end, we are hypothesizing who would win. Remember we aren't asking what would happen if Revan and Anikan met. I said draw, but mainly out of my disdain for these kinds of threads. Of course one would have to win, but I don't know who would. I don't think it would be a pushover for either - I think that it would eventually be a case of which opponent began to tire first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parmenides Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I said draw, but mainly out of my disdain for these kinds of threads. Of course one would have to win, but I don't know who would. I don't think it would be a pushover for either - I think that it would eventually be a case of which opponent began to tire first. Sounds like a 4th option "don't know/care" would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono_Giganto Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Sounds like a 4th option "don't know/care" would be good. Most of us call that option "not voting". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parmenides Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Most of us call that option "not voting". Heheheh, but some from that group still want to put in their two cents. Don't ask me why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuttle Atlantis Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Comparing one fiction to another is ridiculous. I understand that if Lucas created the series, we yield to his wisdom for being the author. I suppose that if there were something new that contradicts his own story, he would say that Anakin could have done exactly that. So if someone creates a new character that Lucas didn't intend to move a star destroyer, he could say that Starkiller would have been less powerful than what he was in the game TFU. I can understand that Starkiller was intended as an all out super Force user, but wouldn't have been accepted as a character in the original series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HdVaderII Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I can understand that Starkiller was intended as an all out super Force user, but wouldn't have been accepted as a character in the original series. The only reason that Starkiller is as powerful as he is, is to make the gameplay more interesting for TFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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