[Debate] Starkiller alive?

[RebornWookiee]

Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't mind seeing Starkiller alive, honestly. I thought his character/personality was quite intriguing.

 

I second that. The clone idea is stupid, no offense, and i definitely agree that i wouldn't mind seeing starkiller back it wouldnt be the same without him he was a very intriguing and interesting character.

[Marius Fett]

I've been thinking it could be something to do with the Jedi Masters he killed in t he game. Maybe as he lays dying on the floor after Palpatine fried him they spoke to him in a vision and told him how to come back or something like that?

 

Yeah that probably sounds a bit daft, but anything's better than clones. >_<

[setlec]

i think that maybe Proxy having access to the imperial computing network has "hacked" into the IMP network and used a medical drone as the one that Vader used to rescue Malek just before resurrecting him. So i a way this is very plausible that Malek was rescued by his robot after Vader and Palpatine disposed his corpse as a garbage. That would make sense.

[TKA-001]

No, it isn't. Seriously.

If they wanted him alive for a sequel, then they shouldn't have killed him in the first place.

 

I second that. The clone idea is stupid, no offense, and i definitely agree that i wouldn't mind seeing starkiller back it wouldnt be the same without him he was a very intriguing and interesting character.

I agree that cloning him is stupid, but I maintain that it is the least stupid (because it doesn't make the first game's ending a total copout) and most plausible (because every element of it has been done before in the canon) option.

[Shem]

Nonsense; the clone option is just as plausible. All they'd have to do is throw in some mention about "residual genetic memories" (which have been demonstrated before in Star Wars), and that'd be that.

You just complicated the story. You now have to explain how it came about. I mean you are seriously going with the idea that cloning Starkiller was planned because they knew what would happen with him, even though the Emperor looked at him as Vader's future replacement.

 

Then you have to grow him and train him pretty early on. I mean finding another person to do that would be easier than cloning someone to try to be like someone. To program memories.

 

You're also talking that Palpatine didn't have plans to use him as his future apprentice which was revealed he did.

 

Then not only did you start this clone off early when Starkiller was a young kid, you grow him, train him, program him with memories; you then send him off to wonder the galaxy wondering what he should be doing with this complicated thoughts. What is the point of that?

 

Oh, and if you're still going with the programmed memories, how did they get Juno's quotes since they weren't there for that? Especially one we heard her say to Starkiller right before he leaped into the Death Star. Are you still seriously suggesting that? Because if you are, you're going to really have to complicate the story more.

 

but I maintain that it is the least stupid (because it doesn't make the first game's ending a total copout) and most plausible

Still think it's the most plausible now?

[Ser'eck]

I just thought of another theory, what if Proxy was repaired before Marek went to the Death Star and Proxy went in place of Marek? After all Proxy was trained to use lightsabers, all though he could not use force powers. But in the end it could have been Proxy that was portrayed as Marek dying!

[RebornWookiee]

You just complicated the story. You now have to explain how it came about. I mean you are seriously going with the idea that cloning Starkiller was planned because they knew what would happen with him, even though the Emperor looked at him as Vader's future replacement.

 

Then you have to grow him and train him pretty early on. I mean finding another person to do that would be easier than cloning someone to try to be like someone. To program memories.

 

You're also talking that Palpatine didn't have plans to use him as his future apprentice which was revealed he did.

 

Then not only did you start this clone off early when Starkiller was a young kid, you grow him, train him, program him with memories; you then send him off to wonder the galaxy wondering what he should be doing with this complicated thoughts. What is the point of that?

 

Oh, and if you're still going with the programmed memories, how did they get Juno's quotes since they weren't there for that? Especially one we heard her say to Starkiller right before he leaped into the Death Star. Are you still seriously suggesting that? Because if you are, you're going to really have to complicate the story more.

 

Still think it's the most plausible now?

 

BURN!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHA ok im sorry guys i just had to say it. Im starting a new thread so we can talk about how yoda will be in the game that will be more interesting to talk about.

[Shem]

I just thought of another theory, what if Proxy was repaired before Marek went to the Death Star and Proxy went in place of Marek? After all Proxy was trained to use lightsabers, all though he could not use force powers. But in the end it could have been Proxy that was portrayed as Marek dying!

Then that was a very quick repair. Besides you're actually going to go with that Proxy kissed Juno instead of Starkiller? What would be the point of that because Juno would obviously be in on it.

[Sir Vougalot]

And that it was PROXY's spirit that floated up into space postmortem in the novel?

[Ser'eck]

I'm not thinking, lol!

[SITHWARRIOR101]

How could that possibly make any sense?

 

It actually makes alot of sense, starkiller posssibly knew he was going to be killed so he went to kamino to make a clone of himself, the clone died on the death star, problem solved so starkiller could go into hiding or whatever.

[Sir Vougalot]

God, please stop the clone talk. This isn't Power Rangers.

[Alexrd]

It actually makes alot of sense, starkiller posssibly knew he was going to be killed so he went to kamino to make a clone of himself, the clone died on the death star, problem solved so starkiller could go into hiding or whatever.

 

 

I really hope you're joking...

[mstr kenobi]

God, please stop the clone talk. This isn't Power Rangers.

 

And you have never heard of clones in star wars

[Harkonnen07]

Wasn't he brought back to life once already though, Darth brought him back after his "betrayal."

 

Why is it so hard to assume it happens again?

[Sir Vougalot]

And you have never heard of clones in star wars

 

. . . Did you listen to anything I've been saying? Oh my God, what the crap is wrong with you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Edit] In fact, here. In case you're too lazy to scroll up:

 

Star Wars has been cloned to death, and I've had quite enough of it already. And it didn't start with the prequels; the Expanded Universe has been doing the evil clone thing for years, from Dark Empire to the Thrawn trilogy.

 

The point being: Enough damn clones! It's been done to death!

 

Learn to pay attention and not be such a noob.

[TKA-001]

You just complicated the story. You now have to explain how it came about. I mean you are seriously going with the idea that cloning Starkiller was planned because they knew what would happen with him, even though the Emperor looked at him as Vader's future replacement.

It's not my responsibility to come up with the why for him being cloned by someone (presumably he would be cloned after his death, but that's neither here nor there). I'm merely pointing out that it is possible and more probable than him being resurrected (something which is relatively rare in-universe, compared to cloning).

 

Then you have to grow him and train him pretty early on.

They have accelerated clone growth in-universe. As for training, that's tied to the "why" question.

 

To program memories.

An ARC Trooper (called "Spar", featured in two Karen Traviss novels and a few other EU sources) in the clone army got Jango Fett's memories by accident. It wouldn't be a stretch for a clone of Vader's apprentice to get memories somehow as well (it doesn't have to be deliberate; I'm just pointing out that it's not implausible).

 

You're also talking that Palpatine didn't have plans to use him as his future apprentice which was revealed he did.

Where did I say that? Again, this is related to the why question, and I never intended to address the why, and as I stated above, in all likelihood if he was going to be cloned, it would be after his death.

 

Then not only did you start this clone off early when Starkiller was a young kid, you grow him, train him, program him with memories; you then send him off to wonder the galaxy wondering what he should be doing with this complicated thoughts. What is the point of that?

There are too many presumptions in this line of thought. You are presuming that Starkiller being cloned means that Palpatine has to be the one who did it (though he is the most likely person), that residual memories from the original Starkiller had to have been programmed (when even elsewhere in the canon it has been demonstrated that they don't need to be programmed in order to occur), and that he would be sent by the Emperor for no apparent reason on a mission with no objectives or purpose. I'm not trying to explain anything close to the whole story; I'm only highlighting what I consider to be the most plausible explanation for Starkiller being back.

 

Oh, and if you're still going with the programmed memories, how did they get Juno's quotes since they weren't there for that?

Because, as the condition you refer to in this sentence (the underlined portion) dictates, he somehow possesses the original's memories.

[Lord Foley]

I'm banking on him not being a clone simply because it'd be an awfully awkward plot for him to be cloned and then given his previous memories. It's the same effect as bringing him back to life but feels even more contrived. (Don't get me wrong, bringing him back to life is obviously a contrived way of making a sequel.) And Karen Travis's contributions to canon are among the poorest, so I really don't want to use her as a standard for what sort of thing should go on (whether or not it can.)

[Shem]

It actually makes alot of sense, starkiller posssibly knew he was going to be killed so he went to kamino to make a clone of himself, the clone died on the death star, problem solved so starkiller could go into hiding or whatever.

It takes time to grow clones you know. He would then have to train him and that would take years. Please think things through before you present them.

 

 

 

And you have never heard of clones in star wars

Of course people have heard of them. It's when they're all of a sudden thrust when people don't think things through is what the problem is.

 

 

 

It's not my responsibility to come up with the why for him being cloned by someone (presumably he would be cloned after his death, but that's neither here nor there).

After his death? Okay, TFU II is still before ANH. Are you really seriously suggesting that as a possibility?

 

 

I'm merely pointing out that it is possible and more probable than him being resurrected (something which is relatively rare in-universe, compared to cloning).

Did it ever occur to you that Starkiller never really died and that he was presumed dead? That's not resurrection.

 

 

 

They have accelerated clone growth in-universe. As for training, that's tied to the "why" question.

That is not it. I'm point out the flaws in the idea of cloning Starkiller.

 

 

An ARC Trooper (called "Spar", featured in two Karen Traviss novels and a few other EU sources) in the clone army got Jango Fett's memories by accident. It wouldn't be a stretch for a clone of Vader's apprentice to get memories somehow as well (it doesn't have to be deliberate; I'm just pointing out that it's not implausible).

I see the Multiplicity movie factor being played, but if that is the case, the memories would be at the moment of cloning. Not after.

 

 

Where did I say that? Again, this is related to the why question, and I never intended to address the why, and as I stated above, in all likelihood if he was going to be cloned, it would be after his death.

So you're saying that within a 1 to 2 year time period, he was able to grow up, then trained to be as powerful as he was before, which did take well over a decade before. Are you really going to go with that?

 

I have already contradicted every aspect of your clone theory. If I can do that, don't you think that means it won't happen that way? Think about it!

[TKA-001]

After his death? Okay, TFU II is still before ANH. Are you really seriously suggesting that as a possibility?

Not exactly a possibility. My gut says that they're going to bring him back to life, so I'd say it's more of an option that I wouldn't put past LucasArts.

 

Did it ever occur to you that Starkiller never really died and that he was presumed dead? That's not resurrection.

Of course it occurred to me. I looked over it and decided that that idea is absolutely bogus, because even if you believe that he survived that explosion at the end based on the fact that he has no visible wounds in the game (and assume that Vader and Palpatine are ****ing morons), we still have the novel (which is just as canon as the game) spelling out in no uncertain terms that the apprentice, regardless of what happens to him later, died. Even if the game leaves it ambiguous, the novel fills in the gap.

 

I see the Multiplicity movie factor being played, but if that is the case, the memories would be at the moment of cloning. Not after.

Even if that was an established in-universe law of cloning, LA could use any number of methods to ignore or neutralize such a rule.

 

So you're saying that within a 1 to 2 year time period, he was able to grow up, then trained to be as powerful as he was before, which did take well over a decade before. Are you really going to go with that?

I don't see any reason to believe that he would be as powerful or skilled as his original self was. As for the growth speed, that wouldn't be a problem for LA to explain, what with crazily-fast cloning cylinders from the Thrawn trilogy, and the like. There's also Sith magic/alchemy, which they could use as a handwaving device for how he grows so fast without going bat**** insane, while retaining his Force sensitivity, and so on (Sith magic can do pretty much anything the writers want it to; it's a very versatile plot device).

 

I have already contradicted every aspect of your clone theory. If I can do that, don't you think that means it won't happen that way? Think about it!

I don't see how your ability to say that my theory is wrong changes any of it. Besides, there is no doubt in my mind that LA will go with the resurrection option, because it's simpler than the cloning one and I don't think that LA (even at its worst) would expect anyone to believe that Vader and Palpatine just didn't notice that he was still alive. I still maintain that while every explanation for his return is less than desirabe, the cloning explanation is the least implausible, and that's why I'd prefer it. Of course, I don't expect it to happen the way I think it should at all (for starters, I don't think the apprentice should be brought back in the first place). What I'm arguing is that if LA wanted to, the cloning option would work at least as well as any other explanation: hardly great, but could be worse.

[SITHWARRIOR101]

The clone thing is a bad idea but what other options are there? Unless he is so powerful he brought himself back to life but that seems unlikely does it not? We're just gonna have to wait for it to come out and have a rational explanation

[mstr kenobi]

The clone thing is a bad idea but what other options are there? Unless he is so powerful he brought himself back to life but that seems unlikely does it not? We're just gonna have to wait for it to come out and have a rational explanation

 

I agree,it's the lesser of 2 evils.

 

I surely like it better than the "Omg!!! he's still alive" thing

[adamqd]

He came back to Life because TFU was the biggest selling SW game ever, Money>> Plausible Stories

But I'm sure he survived by not dieing in the first place, Star Wars is all about Relaunching/retcon/re-imagining atm

[RebornWookiee]

Wasn't he brought back to life once already though, Darth brought him back after his "betrayal."

 

Why is it so hard to assume it happens again?

 

Exactly. Great point.

[Vandros Artenon]

Because Rahm Kota felt him become one with the force?

 

Bah; ultimately, it doesn't matter anyway. He "lives" because Lucas Arts was lazy and felt more like making a game with shiny graphics and implausibly large super rancor monsters that'd draw in cheap money than put in effort and make a game with a logical plot.