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I do hate how certain general behaviors and traits automatically gets you labelled as one thing or another.

 

I know, right? I've tried for over an hour to come up with a satisfactory voicing of my opinions on such, but I... just can't. It all pisses me off. Categorizing ****...

 

@VP: It sounds like your aunt's the nut in this situation, so just ignore her until you turn 18, then you can say whatever you want to her, like "STFU" for instance. :p

 

Oh, yes, she is a total nut. I won't pretend to know what's wrong with her mentally, so I'll say that she's f***ed up in the head.

 

I'm already older than 18, but I haven't seen her lately anyways. Easier for me, as much as I'd feel empowered by cussing her and my uncle out.

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I know, right? I've tried for over an hour to come up with a satisfactory voicing of my opinions on such, but I... just can't. It all pisses me off. Categorizing ****...

 

Oh, It's people running around with a know-it-all mind "diagnosing" everything. A "diagnosis" or knowledge is not an understanding. Of anything. Period. Some people just need to be put back down in their place.

 

Ever notice how effective this is for reasoning when suggesting putting kids on medications? I think there are several doctors that are in the pockets of pharmaceuticals who also profit off of this. It's like everyone needs to be on pills or something. If not by one's own deficiency, by someone else's standards. It's disgusting.

 

Also I frown upon people who do a charade to get special attention/treatment as it really is an insult to those with real disabilities. This alone is an entire subject that could fill another thread. However, I don't typically like spending my time looking down on others.

 

It amazes me how every little thing is a "disability": I haven't met many people who wouldn't (very) generally fit into something. Men it's ADD/ADHD, or women it's bi-polar. If everyone has it, then it doesn't qualify as a handicap or a disability.

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^Bah, that bunch just wants to sell us more pills.

Listen, if you're a parent who has a child with ADD or anything like it and the Doctor tries to give you pills, refuse, if your kid is already on Pills, throw them out the window as far as you can.

Your child does not need them, and I did not either. I can function properly without them, in fact, often I'd get called up to the offices and get told that they were putting me in a class that was difficult enough for me, because the classes I were in were too much of a cakewalk.

So really, if I had excellent grades in school without popping pills every morning, why can't anyone else?

Simple Answer:No reason at all. They all can do it if they work hard enough, just as I and dozens of other people have.

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^Bah, that bunch just wants to sell us more pills. Listen, if you're a parent who has a child with ADD or anything like it and the Doctor tries to give you pills, refuse, if your kid is already on Pills, throw them out the window as far as you can.

Your child does not need them, and I did not either.

That's a really stupid attitude. I have ADHD, although I got the hyperactivity under control without the need for pills long ago, Stratera helps me focus in boring classroom environments. Just because it gets over-diagnosed doesn't mean it doesn't exist, in addition most Doctors aren't just out to fill you full of pills to pad their wallets.

 

HHHHHUUUURRRRRR BOOOTSTRAPS!!!

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Oh, It's people running around with a know-it-all mind "diagnosing" everything. A "diagnosis" or knowledge is not an understanding. Of anything. Period. Some people just need to be put back down in their place.

 

Ever notice how effective this is for reasoning when suggesting putting kids on medications? I think there are several doctors that are in the pockets of pharmaceuticals who also profit off of this. It's like everyone needs to be on pills or something. If not by one's own deficiency, by someone else's standards. It's disgusting.

 

Also I frown upon people who do a charade to get special attention/treatment as it really is an insult to those with real disabilities. This alone is an entire subject that could fill another thread. However, I don't typically like spending my time looking down on others.

 

It amazes me how every little thing is a "disability": I haven't met many people who wouldn't (very) generally fit into something. Men it's ADD/ADHD, or women it's bi-polar. If everyone has it, then it doesn't qualify as a handicap or a disability.

 

...... :dozey:

 

Are you a doctor? Because only Doctors can truly classify disabilities. Calling Autism an "insult" for being called a disability or handicapped is wrong. Heres why: When you are in wheelchair, that is a disability, but with Autism, Bipolar, and ADHD, they struggle every day, even those who say they don't. Many mentally handicapped children go into drugs, especially Bipolar kids. I went to a school which dealt with drugs and achohol abuse as well as other disorders,(also was a school for smart kids) and pretty much all of them had disabilities including ADHD, Autism, and Bipolar.

 

I'm not saying other types of handicapped like spine injury are lesser, but Autism is much more serious then you assume. And your "special treatment" as you say they get, is not always true. Some can function without it. Usually the "special attention" is only temporary.

 

On your part of "doctors make a profit" part of your little speech, actually the insurance companies are what make the profit. See, they are all about money. And the pills give both the Doctors and the Insurance companies money. Because most of my medical bills are paid by my insurance, like my pills for instant, but then they get paid eventually. Most Doctors are trained in these disorders to handle them with care, but they aren't all in it for the money.

 

I'd suggest you read some books on Autism, it would give you more than one opinion on this

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I think there are several doctors that are in the pockets of pharmaceuticals who also profit off of this. It's like everyone needs to be on pills or something. If not by one's own deficiency, by someone else's standards. It's disgusting.

^Bah, that bunch just wants to sell us more pills.
Doctors get zero revenue from selling pills. At most we get a rep bringing us some samples for our patients and perhaps some brand-name pens at conferences. We doctors do not 'push pills' for the sake of getting people on medications. In fact, prescribing medication without an appropriate diagnosis is malpractice. We prescribe based on research presented in medical journals and at conferences about various diseases, and we don't take that responsibility lightly. We have to live with the results of someone having adverse side effects that may be worse than the medications we prescribe, so we are cautious about using the correct drug for the correct time and at the correct dose.

 

Listen, if you're a parent who has a child with ADD or anything like it and the Doctor tries to give you pills, refuse, if your kid is already on Pills, throw them out the window as far as you can.

This is, frankly, horrible advice and should not be followed by anyone. Stopping certain medications abruptly can cause severe health and mental problems. Medications should not be stopped suddenly without consulting a medical professional. Medications should be taken as prescribed. If you don't like the diagnosis by the first professional, get a second or third opinion as needed.

Your child does not need them, and I did not either.

It would be wise for you to at least get your medical degree, do your residency, and see the patient, first, before you determine a child does not need medication.

I can function properly without them,

Just because you are able to function without medications does NOT mean others can.

 

in fact, often I'd get called up to the offices and get told that they were putting me in a class that was difficult enough for me, because the classes I were in were too much of a cakewalk.

And your experience as one person means everyone else is going to react the same? That assumption is unwise.

 

So really, if I had excellent grades in school without popping pills every morning, why can't anyone else?
Because everyone else has different body chemistry, anatomy, and physiology. Have you studied all that for a minimum of 8 years of college and professional school? No? I didn't think so. That's why individuals should consult medical professionals who are thoroughly trained in this condition rather than getting medical advice from a stranger on a Star Wars forum.

 

Simple Answer:No reason at all. They all can do it if they work hard enough, just as I and dozens of other people have.

Wonderful for you. Not everyone has brain chemistry and physiology that are exactly the same as yours. "Working hard enough" may be entirely ineffective for those whose brains simply don't have enough of or the correct balance of certain chemicals.

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^Bah, that bunch just wants to sell us more pills.

Listen, if you're a parent who has a child with ADD or anything like it and the Doctor tries to give you pills, refuse, if your kid is already on Pills, throw them out the window as far as you can.

Your child does not need them, and I did not either. I can function properly without them, in fact, often I'd get called up to the offices and get told that they were putting me in a class that was difficult enough for me, because the classes I were in were too much of a cakewalk.

So really, if I had excellent grades in school without popping pills every morning, why can't anyone else?

Simple Answer:No reason at all. They all can do it if they work hard enough, just as I and dozens of other people have.

 

Sir, this is perhaps the most irresponsible and most ill thought out post I have ever seen here at Lucas Forums, speaking as an individual from a country where the medication is free for individuals with autism, I fail to see why doctors would give out medication unless they thought patients needed them.

 

I presume my father who has cardiac hyper-tension (and is also a Doctor) should stop taking his medicine and he would still be fine? (Actually he would only live for a few days, before suffering a pulmonary embolism). Furthermore often mentally ill people think they do not need to continue with medication as they feel better; often their families do not share their sentiments.

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Just a note: That homeschool thread in ahto: I was just being a cyinical *** hole. (Why so serious?) Though on a side note, I'm glad people *do* care.

 

...... :dozey:

 

Are you a doctor? Because only Doctors can truly classify disabilities.

Are *you* a doctor? No? Then you're no more qualified than I am.

 

Calling Autism an "insult" for being called a disability or handicapped is wrong.

 

That's *not* what I said. Clarification: I was lobbying on behalf of those with autism in the face of those who would try to 'ride' the system. Reread what I said.

 

Perhaps you should ask clarification instead of going off like that?

 

Don't confuse what I'm saying: there are people who truly HAVE disabilities. Then there are people who although having problems, do not have disabilities. Fitting into one category or another, yes. Over time these ones have shown they have problems because they don't care to move past them.

 

I'm on your side!

 

Clear enough?

 

Heres why: When you are in wheelchair, that is a disability, but with Autism, Bipolar, and ADHD, they struggle every day, even those who say they don't.

 

I never said they didn't struggle nor that they weren't problems. However, if you look at the symptoms of ADHD/ADD and bipolar, they could fit almost anyone. If almost anyone could have it, then it is not a disability. It's a problem, but if it is not a set of uncommon or unusual handicaps then I do not see how it qualifies as a disability. Furthermore, the struggles for these people CAN be worked around and controlled so that they lead a productive life.

 

I'm willing to make exceptions for cases of those who were naturally born with a chemical imbalance or are hardcases of abuse/emotional disturbance/etc.

 

For ADHD/ADD: How can you tell me it's legitimately a disability when under select cases I.E. playing video games, or cards, or drawing, etc. they can do it for hours and hours on end without taking a break? They can't focus on anything else like that, but they can do it on video games or fun activities? This shows me they CAN continuously focus on a task, but have selective attention and are at least aware of it enough to differentiate from one task to another. Even with meds, the eventual truth is these kinds of people are just going to have to move past their setbacks and function just like everyone else. Yes, it is more difficult for them--but at the same time most of them could have have some advantages most people don't. Enthusiasm, creativity, perspective.

These people don't have the same hindrances that autistic people do.

 

I have seen people who are diagnosed "bipolar" but when examining their background I've noticed 2 basic but major differences though there is definitely probability of overlap:

 

1) Those who actually have chemical imbalances in the brain and are a hair's breadth away from being bat **** nuts. These I'd call legitimate disability: Most of them want to get better or at least function on some level of regularity of society. May be unable to, however, because it is beyond their control. (The best artist I ever knew had this problem and schizophrenia on top, but he went on to do great things and even inspired me to keep trying for better.)

 

2) Others flip out when pressed for a task or stressed in other ways and they also do it more constantly and severely than most people. These latter bipolars don't have the same sort of disadvantage/internal chemical issues that the other bipolars have. They seem just fine for the most part.

 

EXCEPTION: For some it stems from home issues and abuse--understandable (I'll give the stronger of cases ones a pass, the marginal ones lenient only to a point). However this is not necessarily the majority of these cases, or we'd have a huge problem with child abuse/neglect in this country. These ones may have a tainted point of view because of their experiences. They have hardship mental and emotional scars from horrible treatment they never deserved and may never quite see things rationally because of it.

 

Where it *isn't* hardcases of abuse/dysfunction, it is that they don't have good control over their emotional outbursts and are very unstable/insecure.

It eventually boils down to "do they care to actually work around it?" All the meds and good counsel in the world can't do for them what they won't do themselves. They don't control their outbursts and as a result do not function to a level of most others in society. Like the ADD/ADHD crowd, these people do not have the same hardship as Autistic people--or their abused/neglected counterparts.

 

Many mentally handicapped children go into drugs, especially Bipolar kids. I went to a school which dealt with drugs and achohol abuse as well as other disorders,(also was a school for smart kids) and pretty much all of them had disabilities including ADHD, Autism, and Bipolar.

 

The hole in that argument is: Drugs and alcohol are a coping mechanism to turn to for these people as well as people who don't have these issues.

 

I'm not saying other types of handicapped like spine injury are lesser, but Autism is much more serious then you assume.

:dozey::mad:

Please point out where I specifically invalidated autism? I was on YOUR SIDE. Go back and reread the post--I never invalidated autism (I was actually lobbying in favor of it while frowning at people who try to ride the system). Please try to clarify what another says instead of assuming what they're saying.

 

Generally: What I am disgusted with are how quick we (as a society, parents, schools, peers) are to give pills for this, pills for that--for everything in general. If medication is needed, then by all means give them the meds they need. For all others whom are not at least a strong to definite/terminal case--other methods should be sought first. There are so many drugs we give kids nowadays. Although they are considered safe, the long term consequences won't be known for some time. I suggest that instead of risking this damage on patients like guinea pigs, that all other methods be tried first in real earnest.

 

:words:

I'd suggest you read some books on Autism, it would give you more than one opinion on this

:¬::¬::¬:

You are, again, still assuming I was invalidating autism. I wasn't. :swear:

 

It was a side discussion that I am disgusted how there are so many drugs out there for kids, and how everywhere I turn nowadays: your kid has this problem, get them this drug. Your kid has that problem, have your doctor prescribe them this. I guess I stand corrected about doctors in the mean time.

 

I could be being unreasonable but, drugs shouldn't be turned to first or second.

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1. Drug's are not the only part of the problem. A lot of kids have to have these pills every day, and no I am not a doctor, but my mom is. Want to talk to her?

 

2. As I said, Medical Insurance companies are the ones who are ripping us off bit by bit, and that is what makes pills so damn expensive. These pills keep kids, say Bipolar, from going depressed, or getting too energetic. That's why pills are such a big deal.

 

3. You may be right on your opinion of ADHD, but they still do struggle. Yes I see those kids play vid games all day, but that does not mean they are below the spectrum.

 

4. As I said, pills are necessary, they aren't what tells who you are, they are what helps you with your "issues", and help you get better.

 

So I wasn't trying to piss you off, but I guess I may have misread your post. I am sorry for that

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1. Drug's are not the only part of the problem. A lot of kids have to have these pills every day, <snip>

 

2. As I said, Medical Insurance companies are the ones who are ripping us off bit by bit, and that is what makes pills so damn expensive. These pills keep kids, say Bipolar, from going depressed, or getting too energetic. That's why pills are such a big deal.

 

So then, what? If they are the stronger cases then they need medications--I'm not really contesting that.

 

Otherwise, all other options ought to be exhausted first because drugs are not always the best solution. What is best accords to the situaiton and the individual.

 

I'm not saying drugs aren't needed--they should, however, not be the preferred choice to deal with most every case.

 

and no I am not a doctor, but my mom is. Want to talk to her?

 

You were intent on busting my chops because you disagreed with me--so I gave it right back to you. Nothing personal but please try to understand another's sentiment before laying into them.

 

3. You may be right on your opinion of ADHD, but they still do struggle. Yes I see those kids play vid games all day, but that does not mean they are below the spectrum.

 

I reiterate: it _IS_ a problem, but you cannot tell me it is absolutely a disability, or that it is beyond the control of the individual.

 

I never thought I'd say this: I agree w/ TA that students at some point need to step the **** up.

 

When it comes to underachievement, that's a problem that is not just of parenting, but a societal one as well. We seem to practically embrace and celebrate taking the easy way out, or are used to things being quick and easy.

 

4. As I said, pills are necessary, they aren't what tells who you are, they are what helps you with your "issues", and help you get better.

 

Well, you're the one telling everyone else to leave a proper diagnosis to the doctor. Practice what you preach and I won't have a problem. :p

 

As a doctor would say: Case by case according to what is best for an individual.

 

So I wasn't trying to piss you off, but I guess I may have misread your post. I am sorry for that

 

Very well.

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IMO, autism is overdiagnosed, and has in many ways become the next "fad" disorder. There's a "burden complex" among a lot of parents who think having a "special needs" child makes them oh-so holier than thou. Which only puts more pressure on reasonable doctors to misdiagnose kids in order to make a living. It's all just disgusting.

 

Of course, the kids who lord their mild autism or aspergers over others like they're superior humans piss me off to no end. People need to stop being so obsessed with being such special little snowflakes.

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Okay, I don't want to argue anymore with you GTA, you've made your point and so have I. Lets leave it at that. :p

 

autism is overdiagnosed

 

Not true, while it is more common than other disorders, it is a very low chance that you could have it. Larry King discussed this on CNN

 

and has in many ways become the next "fad" disorder.

 

Source? Autism is more important than you think.

 

there's a "burden complex" among a lot of parents who think having a "special needs" child makes them oh-so holier than thou

 

All parents think their child is important, or even more important than others, so Autistic Kid Parents are not much different than normal parents. They have to go through a lot, especially with low-functioning Autism

 

Which only puts more pressure on reasonable doctors to misdiagnose kids in order to make a living.

 

Only qualified doctors can be truly sure it is Autism, usually psychiatrists.

 

Of course, the kids who lord their mild autism or aspergers over others like they're superior humans piss me off to no end.

 

Really, because usually Autistic children are either bullied, harassed, or made fun of because they are "weird" to other kids. I've seen this at many schools which hold both Autistic and Normal Kids. So, in fact, they don't Lord it over other people. Aspergers is a beautiful experience which only few can be in it, but that doesn't mean they/we are better than you or others.

 

People need to stop being so obsessed with being such special little snowflakes.

 

Its not an obsession, it's a serious issue that many have addressed. This debate is over that issue. As Jae said we all have a little abnormality in us.

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Which only puts more pressure on reasonable doctors to misdiagnose kids in order to make a living.

There are plenty enough sick people out there that we reasonable docs don't need to intentionally misdiagnose in order to 'make a living'. Secondly, misdiagnosing leads to a. lawsuits and b. loss of license and c. loss of career. Thirdly, intentionally misdiagnosing to gain more revenue is called fraud, and will get us put in jail along with getting slapped with hefty fines, so we don't do that. OK, there are a rare few try to do that, but they get caught eventually.

If there is going to be a misdiagnosis, it's far more likely that it's because the doctor was skipping doing tests in order to see more patients in a day, and thus missing critical signs of disease. There are 2 people in my entire career of working with hundreds of doctors who I would report to the state boards, and both were running patients through the mill and not doing tests they should have been doing. As a result, they didn't diagnose the diseases that were patently obvious to any 2nd year medical student if they'd just taken the time to look properly. I have read a story about cataracts being over-diagnosed by a surgeon in Chicago, so that the surgeon could get the revenue by doing the surgeries, but that guy ended up in jail after getting caught doing that a few years later.

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2. As I said, Medical Insurance companies are the ones who are ripping us off bit by bit, and that is what makes pills so damn expensive. These pills keep kids, say Bipolar, from going depressed, or getting too energetic. That's why pills are such a big deal.

 

Oh really? So then it's not Big Pharma that makes the expensive meds, but the mean ole insurance company that causes them to be oh-so-expensive? Gee, wouldn't it be nice if you could just grow them on trees in your own backyard. :rolleyes: So, who's supposed to subsidize "your" meds? Everyone else (through taxes or higher med costs of their own)?

 

@Jae--I agree. It's also why BO's calculated insult to doctors was so stupid. There are doctors that break the law, but there are people in a whole slew of other professsions that do also. To suggest that they do operations JUST to line their pockets was unnecessarily and incorrectly offensive. That's politics, though, I guess...

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i did not say the pharm companies were innocent, they charge us too, in fact I had a problem getting my prescription from the local meds store, so I had to go clear it up as they wanted to charge me more than I agreed for. So they BOTH are the problem.

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This strikes me as very weird. I don't consider my physical disabilities to be anything other than, well, disabilities. What makes the Asperger experience beautiful?

 

You'd have to be Autistic to know ;) I've always been smarter than those in my class, mostly because I think it has been my Aspergers syndrome. It is thought to affect a person's intelligence, usually positively

 

Well, I'll join in and admit that I have Asperger's also!

 

Welcome to the club! :thmbup1:

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You'd have to be Autistic to know ;) I've always been smarter than those in my class, mostly because I think it has been my Aspergers syndrome. It is thought to affect a person's intelligence, usually positively

You seem so sure of that. If you go around expressing this opinion in real life like you have here you're in for a lifetime of misery, because people will stop at nothing to make you look stupid. You've been warned.

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You'd have to be Autistic to know ;) I've always been smarter than those in my class, mostly because I think it has been my Aspergers syndrome. It is thought to affect a person's intelligence, usually positively
I don't intend to dismiss your opinion out of hand, but the "you've got to be it to know it" response doesn't say much to me. The corollary of that would be that you would be unable to evaluate other viewpoints. If that's true then I see no possible justification for saying the autistic experience should be described as beautiful (at least, no more than anyone else's). If intelligence is the sole criterion then many people have the same "beautiful experience" without Asperger's, something I guess you'd contest.

 

I am still curious if you would mind at least attempting to describe why you would say that having Asperger's is a beautiful experience. It's just this kind of terminology reminds me of a case a while back of a blind couple who thought being blind was the best experience, and proceeded to try to have a blind child (something I consider to be effectively maiming another person).

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You seem so sure of that. If you go around expressing this opinion in real life like you have here you're in for a lifetime of misery, because people will stop at nothing to make you look stupid. You've been warned.

 

That's your opinion, not all people are what you say they are, in fact most I find are okay. As the wise man says "Don't judge people before you meet em" . :) So pretty much life is not a down in the dumps as you say it is, life is a wonderful experience, no matter what brings you down

 

I don't intend to dismiss your opinion out of hand, but the "you've got to be it to know it" response doesn't say much to me. The corollary of that would be that you would be unable to evaluate other viewpoints. If that's true then I see no possible justification for saying the autistic experience should be described as beautiful (at least, no more than anyone else's).

 

I am still curious if you would mind at least attempting to describe why you would say that having Asperger's is a beautiful experience. It's just this kind of terminology reminds me of a case a while back of a blind couple who thought being blind was the best experience, and proceeded to try to have a blind child (something I consider to be effectively maiming another person).

 

Usually the best things can't be or are hard to describe. Autism is not a stereotype, while it has taken decades for scientists to really explore its characteristics. Being Blind and Being Autistic are different. They affect different parts of your body, so I add up that you guys think that Autism is just another sad disease that makes people crazy, it is not.

 

Here is why:

 

Autism does affect the brain, but there are different variations of it as I said in the opening post. High Functioning Autistic People, Aspergers being in this category, usually are very intelligent, have special talent, and they are also have been known to have big heads. Low Functioning Autistic People have symptoms similar to down's syndrome, but are a little higher functioning. They have little to no vocal communication skills, but can communicate with visual signs, some are lucky to have average vocal skills, people say they walk funny, they also are known to have tantrums more often than the normal two-three year old. However, some scientists are beginning to wonder if the lower functioning Autistic people are actually smarter than the higher functioning, but have no way to express it. The show House has one episode focused on Autism

 

Source: http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/autism-symptoms

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I don't think it makes anyone crazy; it's a syndrome that reduces CHA to a greater or lesser degree while (possibly) boosting INT. --Yes, I'm going to burn for that. >_<

 

There isn't anything wrong with having Asperger's; I was just curious why you thought having a disability was beautiful, because that association strikes me as very, very strange.

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That's your opinion, not all people are what you say they are, in fact most I find are okay.

Sure they are; to your face. If I recall correctly, people with Asperger's have a hard time reading body language, putting them at a severe disadvantage when determining another's intent. I think they call it "mind blindness", and it makes people with Asperger's very easy to dupe. I could be mistaken about this particular symptom, however.

As the wise man says "Don't judge people before you meet em" . :)

Whatever. I don't.

So pretty much life is not a down in the dumps as you say it is, life is a wonderful experience, no matter what brings you down

Huh? What are you talking about? You're clearly misunderstanding me, here. I'm not being negative; I'm being realistic.

 

If you don't believe me, then go ahead and broadcast how "smart" you are. You'll learn eventually that people don't appreciate it and will make a fun game out of proving you wrong.

IMO, autism is overdiagnosed, and has in many ways become the next "fad" disorder. There's a "burden complex" among a lot of parents who think having a "special needs" child makes them oh-so holier than thou. Which only puts more pressure on reasonable doctors to misdiagnose kids in order to make a living. It's all just disgusting.

 

Of course, the kids who lord their mild autism or aspergers over others like they're superior humans piss me off to no end. People need to stop being so obsessed with being such special little snowflakes.

I agree. When it comes to physiological problems, a diagnosis can be definitively proven or dis-proven. Not so with things psychological, which is why, after 25 years in and out of "treatment", I've come to believe that the "mental health profession" is 10% medicine and 90% fraud.

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