Russian subway bombed

[jawathehutt]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_russia_subway_blast

Its a shame that the press is so damned biased. Where was this outrage when hospitals were bombed by the Russians. There are very few "terrorist" groups I think have legitimate agendas but after the **** Russia has given them the Chechnyans are one of them. I don't support the bombing of subways and such but honestly, talk about hypocracy, we support Taiwan's independence from China yet we condemn another area that has been oppressed for years as "terrorists" because that is their last hope for improving their condition.

[Samnmax221]

[jrrtoken]

I like how every other Western nation is in ABSOLUTE PANIC, seeing as Chechen rebels will obviously fly all the way to NYC to bomb a Metro car.

[Salzella]

I think it's slightly bizarre how some sections of the press have led with the headline "Female Suicide Bombers etc etc". As if somehow the fact they were women changes the game somehow

[Samnmax221]

Russia should be balkanized and Putin should be drowned in feces.

[JediAthos]

I don't think I've seen anything detailing panic here in the States...unless I've missed something. President Obama's unannounced visit to Afghanistan seems to have made just as much news on this side of the pond.

 

Plus, at the same time, the Chechin(sp.) rebels are pissed at Russia right? The seem unconcerned with the rest of the world so I don't think there will be any worries about them bombing anything here.

[Roller123]

Islamic extremists are pissed at everyone not islamic so could bomb just about everything. London(check), Paris(check), Madrid(check), Moscow(check). New York City is as much a target as anything else. Happy Twin Tower Day(check)

[jawathehutt]

Islamic extremists are pissed at everyone not islamic so could bomb just about everything. London(check), Paris(check), Madrid(check), Moscow(check). New York City is as much a target as anything else. Happy Twin Tower Day(check)

I have a simple suggestion. Before you post about terrorism ever again, learn something about it. Terrorists are not all part of some evil mega faction led by Osama bin Cobra Commander. True Chechnyans do have connections to Al Quida but this is largely because they've been screwed over by every other nation. Chechnyan rebels want independence from Russia, not to murder every Christian, which is also not the goal of most of the Islamic Extremists, however in the interest of staying on topic Ill ignore your lack of knowledge on that subject for now. Attacking the US or really anywhere but Russia would do nothing at all for the Chechnyans, it would be like if during the US Revolutionary War the US sent a couple of ships to go shoot up the coast of Norway just because.

[mimartin]

Chechnyan rebels want independence from Russia, not to murder every Christian, which is also not the goal of most of the Islamic Extremists, however in the interest of staying on topic Ill ignore your lack of knowledge on that subject for now.

Sound hauntingly familiar to the Mujaihideen battle with the Soviet Union and we all know how that turned out.

 

I do believe the Chechens have been wrong. I understand their desire for an independent nation. That still does not help me understand murdering innocent people. I don’t care who is doing the killing or the reason behind it, terrorism is still terrorism and nothing more.

[Roller123]

jawathehutt

You should be the last person talking, making statements like "Taiwan wants independence from China".(Taiwan is China, just different government in case you didnt know) Clearly you think of Chechens, Palestinians, Osama Bin Laden etc as some kind of "freedom fighters" and openly support their methods of blowing up civilian population. Im not exactly sure what to think of such outrageous ignorance. Go bother someone else with your "insights". snip

[Web Rider]

Russia should be balkanized and Putin should be drowned in feces.

 

While I don't care much for Putin, a balkanized Russia would be the first sign of WWIII. The power vacuum from it's breakup would be literally, earth shattering.

[Totenkopf]

Yes, and a fair amount of that would be the noise of China moving into Siberia. Afterall, some 50 million +/- chinese youths have no marital options and it ain't like the PRC has no bodies to spare if they feel aggressive. But yeah, I'm not opposed to the "Putin solution".

[jawathehutt]

Sound hauntingly familiar to the Mujaihideen battle with the Soviet Union and we all know how that turned out.

 

I do believe the Chechens have been wrong. I understand their desire for an independent nation. That still does not help me understand murdering innocent people. I don’t care who is doing the killing or the reason behind it, terrorism is still terrorism and nothing more.

I don't think they should be killing innocents either nor do I think certain governments located in a city that starts with M and ends with oscow should be firing ballistic missiles at hospitals and obliterating cities without any regard to innocents. Two subway trains is pretty insignificant compared to a city.

 

 

jawathehutt

You should be the last person talking, making statements like "Taiwan wants independence from China".(Taiwan is China, just different government in case you didnt know)

Haha and Tibet is supportive of China controlling them too right?

 

Clearly you think of Chechens, Palestinians, Osama Bin Laden etc as some kind of "freedom fighters" and openly support their methods of blowing up civilian population.

Hmmm no don't think I ever said that, I said Chechynans are one of the only "terrorist" groups that I think has a legitimate reason to be pissed off. And I pretty specifically said I dont think blowing civilians to kingdom come is a grand idea.

 

Im not exactly sure what to think of such outrageous ignorance. snip

You could start up reading some literature on the situation that shows both sides of the story, not just western media that is written with about as much fairness as a 24 hour news channel opinion show. Try Inside the Jihad or Terrorism Inc, both manage to get over the organization of evil image we have of anything associated with the word terrorism.

[Samnmax221]

While I don't care much for Putin, a balkanized Russia would be the first sign of WWIII. The power vacuum from it's breakup would be literally, earth shattering.

 

They want to go on playing like they're the Russian Empire/Soviet Union. It's either that or forcibly destroying almost all of the the military hardware they have.

[mimartin]

I don't think they should be killing innocents either nor do I think certain governments located in a city that starts with M and ends with oscow should be firing ballistic missiles at hospitals and obliterating cities without any regard to innocents. Two subway trains is pretty insignificant compared to a city.[/qUOTE]Could not agree more, thus is why I wrote, " terrorism is still terrorism and nothing more."

 

 

Hmmm no don't think I ever said that, I said Chechynans are one of the only "terrorist" groups that I think has a legitimate reason to be pissed off.

Don't know if I agree with that. I can see why the Middle East could be a little upset with the west. The entire hypocrisy of the U.S. preaching freedom, yet supporting dictators for no other reasons than they were the enemy of our enemy and they have oil seems like a just reason to be a little upset. Supporting the Mujahedeen when they were killing Soviets, but then after the Soviet withdraw ending all support also seems like a valid reason to be a little perturbed. There are valid reasons for people to be upset, that however does not give anyone a valid reason to practice terrorism.

[Salzella]

The Afghanistan example is an odd one as terrorism was never a large part of that, largely because the armies of both sides were causing more than enough terror by themselves. I wouldn't really directly compare the two either because whereas America is blameless (i think) for Chechnya, they are most certainly not blameless for the slaughter in Afghanistan between all sides; one of the most cynical instances of wargaming on their part you will ever see.

[Tommycat]

While I can agree that there can be righteous anger, there is never an acceptable point to target innocent civilians. No matter how vile the government of that country may be, an attack targeting civilians will never have justification in my book. If you are targeting the military or government, I will listen to your justification. Heck I may even agree. But as soon as you start targeting civilians you are nothing but a cowardly piece of (explicative for feces) and I will NEVER listen to your justification, or lend any credence to your complaints.

 

target the government and you're a freedom fighter. Target civilians, and you're just a murderous piece of (explicative for feces)

[Sabretooth]

jawathehutt

You should be the last person talking, making statements like "Taiwan wants independence from China".(Taiwan is China, just different government in case you didnt know)

 

Haha and Tibet is supportive of China controlling them too right?

 

Since you're both having fun treading on each other's poorly worded technicalities of The Taiwan Situation, I'd like to clarify for the both of you that:

 

Taiwan (Republic of China) and China (People's Republic of China) both lay claim to Chinese territory including at least, mainland China and the island of Taiwan. Taiwan functions independently of the People's Republic and the PR functions independently of Taiwan. They are rogue nations according to each other.

 

Despite this, the People's Republic of China, covering the mainland and having a vast population is considered the de facto China, while the Republic of China, having little actual territorial control beyond the island of Taiwan, is referred to as Taiwan.

 

Yay for breaking arguments.

[mimartin]

The Afghanistan example is an odd one as terrorism was never a large part of that.

How did I use the Mujahedeen as an example of terrorist? I didn’t. I used them as an example of a people that wanted freedom from the Soviet Union (aka Russia). A group that at one time only wanted to kill Soviets, but later splintered and turns on the west.

 

However, both the Soviet Army and the Mujahedeen practiced what anyone outside of the Bush Administration Lawyers would consider torture and terrorism. That was just not part of my example.

 

I wouldn't really directly compare the two either because whereas America is blameless (i think) for Chechnya, they are most certainly not blameless for the slaughter in Afghanistan between all sides; one of the most cynical instances of wargaming on their part you will ever see.

Hence my reason for bringing up Afghanistan. The United States made a terrible mistake in Afghanistan and should learn from that mistake and not have a repeat performance in Chechnya. If we were to decide to help, then the U.S. must be fully committed to not only helping free the people, but supporting them after the bloodshed is over. However, since the U.S. attention span is 15 minutes at best, it is better that we stay away from this. This battle has been going on for several hundred years and I see no end in sight.

[Totenkopf]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_russia_subway_blast

Its a shame that the press is so damned biased. Where was this outrage when hospitals were bombed by the Russians. There are very few "terrorist" groups I think have legitimate agendas but after the **** Russia has given them the Chechnyans are one of them. I don't support the bombing of subways and such but honestly, talk about hypocracy, we support Taiwan's independence from China yet we condemn another area that has been oppressed for years as "terrorists" because that is their last hope for improving their condition.

 

Well, after Beslan, I'm not so sure many people would agree they're not terrorists. Unless you wish to assert that was some kind of Russian false flag operation to poison the well against the Chechens......

[Darth Avlectus]

OH yes, let's all just target whoever we can now. Grandma, the baby, little moe, cliff, tom with the gimpy leg.

 

If nothing else I hope this gets Russia to pledge to go after the extremists.

 

Since you're both having fun treading on each other's poorly worded technicalities of The Taiwan Situation, I'd like to clarify for the both of you that:

 

Taiwan (Republic of China) and China (People's Republic of China) both lay claim to Chinese territory including at least, mainland China and the island of Taiwan. Taiwan functions independently of the People's Republic and the PR functions independently of Taiwan. They are rogue nations according to each other.

 

Despite this, the People's Republic of China, covering the mainland and having a vast population is considered the de facto China, while the Republic of China, having little actual territorial control beyond the island of Taiwan, is referred to as Taiwan.

 

Yay for breaking arguments.

 

Thank you. I raise a mug of beersarsaparilla to you.

[Tommycat]

OH yes, let's all just target whoever we can now. Grandma, the baby, little moe, cliff, tom with the gimpy leg.

I told ya, My leg isn't gimpy... I just twisted my ankle

 

@mimartin: That's part of the problem with us getting out of Iraq. Not to steer too far off course, but if we were to just up and leave as some would have us do, we'd face a similar threat later. Of course some would say it would have been better not to go in there in the first place, but.... can't change the past... only rewrite it.

[Roller123]

Since you're both having fun treading on each other's poorly worded technicalities of The Taiwan Situation, I'd like to clarify for the both of you that:.

No, unfortunately you too are wrong. China is China, PRC is PRC, ROC is ROC. Saying that Taiwan wants independence from China is the same as saying that South Korea wants independence from Korea. (or in your case that South Korea is Korea). Neither does make sense. Common people ofc may call PRC "China". They also call Beijing Peking. Ok enough with offtopic.

[Arcesious]

Just some context on the Russia-Chechnya issue - The Chechen-Russian conflict starts from way back in the Caucasian war. Russia was going through a stage of considerable imperialism and went to take some territory in the Caucasian mountains, Chechnya. As with many colonies subjected to imperialism, it was unfair and caused a lot of problems, including violation of right to freedom of religion at the time.

 

Later you get the 2 Chechen wars as Chechya wants independence from Russia. The first war ends in a treaty and Russia starts to act nice to Chechnya, giving economic aid. But Chechyna spends the money unwisely and gives it to its warlords, destroying its economy. Later on there's some terrorism in Russia and the 2nd Chechen war happens as Russia gets mad, lashing back in a brutal military operation.

 

So Russia comes back, gets control back of Chechnya (installing within in a pro-Moscow government), and now they're trying to negotiate again. Ultimately Chechnya wants to be independent from Russia, but I think that the country is too unstable to be able to secede from Russia yet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya

[Sabretooth]

No, unfortunately you too are wrong. China is China, PRC is PRC, ROC is ROC. Saying that Taiwan wants independence from China is the same as saying that South Korea wants independence from Korea. (or in your case that South Korea is Korea). Neither does make sense. Common people ofc may call PRC "China". They also call Beijing Peking. Ok enough with offtopic.

 

I am not antagonising your argument. I don't agree to that silly statement about Taiwan wanting independence form anyone. After decades of military and political bullying from the PRC, the ROC has settled to call it Taiwan,

 

On September 30, 2007, the ruling Democratic Progressive Party approved a resolution asserting separate identity from China and called for the enactment of a new constitution for a "normal country". It also called for general use of "Taiwan" as the island's name, without abolishing its formal name, the Republic of China.

 

And it's no secret that the PRC is widely recognised, including in the United Nations, as China. Ergo, the PRC is China, the ROC is Taiwan.

 

This is not the case in the Korea situation, where while North Korea claims all of Korea, this claim is not internationally recognised. South Korea does not claim North Korean territory.