Making Common Sense Common Again

[harIII]

Hey, I've been a long term member of KOTOR but new to this particular forum section. To make this right to the point I'm a white, male, gun owning, freedom loving, self educated, Christian, conservative.

 

I am curious what the community has to say about how to correct the economic crisis that we are all in today not just in America but throughout the world, how should we deal with the Terrorists, and what can we as individuals do in order to reverse the times to go from the Dark Ages back to the Golden Age.

[mimartin]

I would like to know what time in American history do you consider American’s Golden Age?

[harIII]

I would say the greatest times would have been the 1940s with the exception of WWII. If Hitler never happened the 1940s would have been the spotlight years in America.

 

I say this because even though we were still experiencing some of the affects of the Depression that's when jobs as we know them today came about. Before you didn't know if you were going to work 20 hours a week or 60, you can be working at one company for a week and then go to another one the next. The jobs weren't consistent. There was even an extreme case (I know it's true because my grandfather's dad experienced it) of mining companies in West Virginia advertising for great jobs with great benefits but when people got to the town, it was really a "prison camp" with the company using people as a form of slave labor. My great grandfather learned of a way to escape and he fled to Detroit, Michigan.

 

I have never dug deep into what life was like for the average Joe but with what I do know I feel that the 1940s (with the exception of World War II) were America's Golden Years.

[Ping]

I personally think America should emulate Europe and save money, and do more things that work in the long-run rather than the short.

[harIII]

I agree with you to a certain extent because you are right about the Long Term plan. But it is critical to have both a short term and long term plan in order to stay afloat.

 

But the problem with doing what Europe is doing is that we already are. For the most part, and I can't explain why, but usually things that happen in Europe will happen in America after a while. Right now Europe is on the brink of collapse because of how all of our economies are interconnected due to Professor Quigley's method of solving Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). If one country starts to sag down, it drags the rest of the world with it and visa versa. Greece I believe was the one to start this domino affect. They are experiencing a rebellion and tough financial problems and because of the economic connections countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy, and others are about to collapse.

[mimartin]

I would say the greatest times would have been the 1940s with the exception of WWII. If Hitler never happened the 1940s would have been the spotlight years in America.

Please tell me you are joking. Please

 

Without World War II America the 1940’s would have been similar to the 1930’s. Even before America entered the War, American was finally put back to work supplying Russia and Great Britain in the war against Germany. World War II and the allies’ victory are exactly what propelled American to a world power. The returning soldiers and things like the GI Bill are what lead to the baby boom and the ability to pursue further education. World War II itself lead to getting women out of the kitchen and into the work place.

 

If you want to say 1945 to 1950 (Korean War), then I give you that. However, I would like to point out it was not the Golden Age for everyone. Just look at women’s rights during that time and how African Americans’ were treated. Look at segregation and the Tuskegee syphilis experiment for just two examples.

 

People look back at the past with nostalgia for a simpler better time. The problem is the memory forgets everything that was wrong with society back then.

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

Please tell me you are joking. Please

 

Without World War II America the 1940’s would have been similar to the 1930’s. Even before America entered the War, American was finally put back to work supplying Russia and Great Britain in the war against Germany. World War II and the allies’ victory are exactly what propelled American to a world power. The returning soldiers and things like the GI Bill are what lead to the baby boom and the ability to pursue further education. World War II itself lead to getting women out of the kitchen and into the work place.

 

If you want to say 1945 to 1950 (Korean War), then I give you that. However, I would like to point out it was not the Golden Age for everyone. Just look at women’s rights during that time and how African Americans’ were treated. Look at segregation and the Tuskegee syphilis experiment for just two examples.

 

People look back at the past with nostalgia for a simpler better time. The problem is the memory forgets everything that was wrong with society back then.

Quoted for every well spent word.

 

The Golden Age was when there was no country yet, and it was all a grand ideal. As soon as hierarchy and rule came into play, the only Golden Age was for the Golden rulers.... Reminds me of my favorite line from Dazed and Confused... something about old rich white men not wanting to pay their taxes.

 

Common sense is lacking, of course. It is not really all that common, after all. I argue, much like the Uncle in the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, that it is logic that we should be teaching. Logic can save you where common sense does not exist! Plus, it can actually be taught and learned!!

 

Critical thinking....

[harIII]

I can settle from 1945 - 50 and about the idea of human rights for various groups. If you want to look at it that way there is always somebody being attacked, a group of people here or a religious sect there. From about 1789 - 1864 the Blacks were being abused for a Slave Labor Force which I agree was a very bad decision for any establishment, the enslavement of one group for the profits of another. But then it was the average worker from 1865 - about mid 1940s, then it was the Communist from the 1940s - 50s, and I really can't go on from there because of all the groups being attacked. But today it seems that Whites, Christians, and Jews are being attacked.

 

Every group has their struggles and it's up the them to fix them. Martin Luther King Jr was a great man because he figured out that the key to making a difference is to do it peacefully and not play into the hands of the establishment. Government regulation (for once I agree with the Feds) helped the average worker have a more secure job. The Communists just ran out of the states or hid underground.

 

I can agree with you on some things but overall I think that 1940s were the high times of American History.

 

Quoted for every well spent word.

 

...old rich white men not wanting to pay their taxes.

 

Critical thinking....

 

Sure is funny how every Senator wants to increase taxes on the working class but every time you hear about tax fraud it's a Senator trying to hold onto his/her tax money.

 

Critical thinking - Touche. That's truly the only way to figure things out but you have to admit that critical thinking eventually draws you back to common sense...

[Darth InSidious]

Repeat after me:

 

There was no "golden age". The whiggish interpretation is a fallacy.

[harIII]

If you say there was no golden age then what would you deem as the best years in American history?

[Darth InSidious]

If you say there was no golden age then what would you deem as the best years in American history?

 

The question is meaningless, since there are no 'best years'.

 

Besides, your country has no history.

[harIII]

How can you say America has had no history. We have had the longest lasting Constitution in World History (221 Years), we defeated the world super power when we really shouldn't have (American Revolution), and we along with help from England, Russia, and others put an end to Nazi tyranny (WWII). How can you possibly say America doesn't have history?

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

How can you say America has had no history. We have had the longest lasting Constitution in World History (221 Years), we defeated the world super power when we really shouldn't have (American Revolution), and we along with help from England, Russia, and others put an end to Nazi tyranny (WWII). How can you possibly say America doesn't have history?

He can say that quite easily, he is a Brit! Much more history over there, I must admit. Or he's just bitter about losing the colonies (wonk wonk). <riiiiiiight>

 

Really though, I was interested in a non 'Merkins view of what would constitute the "Golden Age" of US history.... I think honestly most would say there was none. Too brief, highs and lows all over the map. America is great for what it is, not what it was. For now, at least...

 

There are a million Golden Moments in US History, more than our time on the map would normally accumulate, so that is something. But then, there is Andrew Jackson, or George W, or Teddy the Lion Killer.

[Lord of Hunger]

I am curious what the community has to say about how to correct the economic crisis that we are all in today not just in America but throughout the world,

Well if you want a long term solution with a really painful short term cost, tax imports from China. It'd bring some manufacturing back to the United States and stabilize the economy here.

how should we deal with the Terrorists,

M4A1, Barret .50 Cal, M9, and Predator Strike.[/MODERN WARFARE 2]

 

Oh, you meant in real life. Actually, predator strike works surprisingly well but has foreign relations issues. It depends on if we can get Pakistan to be okay with us sending missiles into their northwestern mountain territories.

and what can we as individuals do in order to reverse the times to go from the Dark Ages back to the Golden Age.

Like the others here, I'd say "Golden Age" is subjective depending on historical view. I'd actually agree with Qui-Gon in that we've had lots of "Golden Moments". The key, I think, would be for Americans to realize this because quite frankly the negativity in the Press and the political process has lowered America's view of itself (I get this feedback from a wide variety of people in online communities, where I live, and where I used to live).

[harIII]

There are a million Golden Moments in US History, more than our time on the map would normally accumulate, so that is something.

 

Very well put Qui-Gon Glenn, I'd have to agree with you but I still think that we did experience a Golden Age from an American's viewpoint for about 10 years.

 

M4A1, Barret .50 Cal, M9, and Predator Strike.[/MODERN WARFARE 2]

 

Oh, you meant in real life. Actually, predator strike works surprisingly well but has foreign relations issues. It depends on if we can get Pakistan to be okay with us sending missiles into their northwestern mountain territories.

 

Throwing missiles, bombs, and guns at the terrorists is a good start but you also have to remember Al Quada (not sure on spelling) is one group among several that apparently belong to a larger order of Islamic Radicals called the Muslim Brotherhood. They are also infiltrators and use that to their advantage. They know how to hide, run, and attack. Those tactics I think can only take us so far until we can actually get the normal Muslims (those that are truly peace loving, friendly, run of the mill type) to turn against their radical rulers. The problem I think is that they haven't had any great theologians to come out and take a stand like great Christians such as Bonhoeffer and Martin Luther. Christianity was once like the Islamic faith today, back in the Medieval years the Church was radical itself.

 

Well if you want a long term solution with a really painful short term cost, tax imports from China. It'd bring some manufacturing back to the United States and stabilize the economy here.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, how does it work?

[mimartin]

Very well put Qui-Gon Glenn, I'd have to agree with you but I still think that we did experience a Golden Age from an American's viewpoint for about 10 years.

Who are these Americans you speak of? I would not consider anytime of war a Golden Age, so if you are speaking 45 to 50 then I already pointed out that was not a Golden Age by far for many Americans.

 

 

BTW. I am 2 out of the 3 things you wrote about and I don't feel under attack.

[harIII]

I am 2 out of the 3 things you wrote about and I don't feel under attack.

 

Well as I said earlier I am a white, male, gun owning, freedom loving, self educated, Christian, conservative and I feel like I'm being attacked.

 

Gun Owning - Obama thinks that people who are afraid, keep guns close by, and God fearing are idiots and basically a bunch of chaotic people panicking.

 

Freedom Loving - I forgot which Senator said it but he said that about 95% of bills passed by Congress are unconstitutional.

 

Christian - Every religion in the world can go to a public school and do whatever they want such as Muslims asking for separate facilities because the ones they have are unclean while Christians are expected to fade away into the wood work.

 

Conservative - Every media organization with the exception of Fox News has called me a racist, fear mongering, pathetic, violent, destructive, and a danger to society.

 

I don't know about you but I think I'm being attacked.

[mimartin]

Gun Owning - Obama thinks that people who are afraid, keep guns close by, and God fearing are idiots and basically a bunch of chaotic people panicking.[/Quote] Show me where he as stated any such thing.

 

Freedom Loving - I forgot which Senator said it but he said that about 95% of bills passed by Congress are unconstitutional.[/Quote] Show me which Senator and I'll show you a idiot Senator.

 

Christian - Every religion in the world can go to a public school and do whatever they want such as Muslims asking for separate facilities because the ones they have are unclean while Christians are expected to fade away into the wood work.[/Quote] No, they can not, at least not in America. If they want any one religion to be taught in an American school, then they can go to a private American school.

 

Conservative - Every media organization with the exception of Fox News has called me a racist, fear mongering, pathetic, violent, destructive, and a danger to society.[/Quote] Links or it did not happen.

 

I don't know about you but I think I'm being attacked.

The only place I feel attacked is when people in the media or the public eye (especially FalseNews) make up stuff act as if it is fact.

 

I’m a white, straight, gun owning, male, freedom loving, financial conservative, social issues liberal who believes in the Constitution even when it goes against my personal believes; Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion and freedom of speech even when someone burns the flag and I’m not under attack except when I listen to the talking heads from either side without using some common sense or rational thoughts to filter out their idiocies. Like saying they know what someone is thinking.

[Sabretooth]

how should we deal with the Terrorists

 

Invade Pakistan - you know, the terrorist-sponsoring state that actually has WMDs.

[Pavlos]

How can you say America has had no history. We have had the longest lasting Constitution in World History (221 Years), we defeated the world super power when we really shouldn't have (American Revolution), and we along with help from England, Russia, and others put an end to Nazi tyranny (WWII). How can you possibly say America doesn't have history?

I beg to differ, sir!

 

Or, if 1689's not your fancy: 1215

[Lord of Hunger]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, how does it work?

Many jobs that go oversees end up there because it is cheaper for American corporations to employ foreign workers. This is because Americans enjoy a higher standard of living and thus they request higher wages than foreign workers. It makes it difficult for Americans to be competitive in the manufacturing industry. By taxing imports the government can draw income from the difference between imported goods and locally-produced goods. However, this would drive up prices for American consumers. The government could compensate by eliminating or reducing income taxes on Americans so they would have more money to spend. In time, corporations might end up deciding to bring those jobs back to the United States.

 

At least, that's the idea.

I beg to differ, sir!

 

Or, if 1689's not your fancy: 1215

You cited a Bill of Rights, which is different from a Constitution. They are both technically legislature, but a Bill is an Act where as a Constitution is a Charter.

[SW01]

You cited a Bill of Rights, which is different from a Constitution. They are both technically legislature, but a Bill is an Act where as a Constitution is a Charter.

 

Not in our legal system it isn't.

 

An Act of Parliament is supreme law. It cannot be overruled, save by another Act. No court can or could amend it. Our old Law Lords at one point stated very clearly (Thoburn case, iirc) that Britain has a series of 'constitutional Acts' which act as a 'Constitution', being Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights (as Pavlos linked), and newer legislation like the European Communities Act, the Human Rights Act, and the Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Government of Wales Acts of 1998 (and all the subsequent amendments to the NI Act...)

 

Therefore, Pavlos wins.

[Astor]

I don't know about you but I think I'm being attacked.

 

I hate to go into a downward spiral of 'News outlets are evil', but, noticing your avatar, is it not at all possible that this sense of being attacked is exacerbated by talking heads (From what I've seen, on both sides, I might add) that trade on fear and misinformation?

[Arcesious]

There is one fallacy that always irks me whenever I hear it, though I know not what to call it.

 

Essentially it goes like this:

 

Person A says: "It was much better back in [insert years], everything's getting worse and worse, people had more common sense in the past."

 

And that's the fallacy.

 

Common sense never was more common in the past. Tribal warfare, feudalism, the dark ages, the crusades, racism, war over pointless things, civil rights... There were always criminals in the past too. I've heard all to many times how back in the past, you could leave your doors unlocked safely, unlike today. Not true. Crime was just as bad back in the 60's and other years as it is now, albeit in different ways.

 

There are no golden years, but it's never been that bad.

 

You'll find that if you take every single event in history into account, everything is a gray area, and there are almost no black and white/good vs evil contrasts.

 

Politicians today have a huge weight on their shoulders. Take anyone who fancies themselves an economy expert, and put them in the place of an influential politician, and I'd like to see them do a job any better than said replaced politician, whilst having to deal with lobbying, politics, and other annoying factors that would get in the way of the best possible solution to the given issues. As Achilles once told me, a lot of economic plans look good on paper, but don't really work too well in application.

 

But what do I know, I'm a super-idealistic optimist.

[harIII]

I would run with all of your arguments but that would take far to long to do so I'll just do one and I feel that this one is the most important because it brings more of what I think out into open.

 

I hate to go into a downward spiral of 'News outlets are evil', but, noticing your avatar, is it not at all possible that this sense of being attacked is exacerbated by talking heads (From what I've seen, on both sides, I might add) that trade on fear and misinformation?

 

The avatar is kind of an inside joke between me and another forum member but either way Glenn Beck is my boy, I want to have it babies!!! I will admit media organizations on both sides get it wrong but to me I feel that Fox News is the one to have a better track record as far as being right. I can't verify this with others on Fox News but I know for a fact that if Glenn Beck said something false about a particular topic he'll come out and take back what he said once he realizes it's wrong while the New York Times will bury the subject in the back pages if they even acknowledge that they are wrong.