Mass Effect 3

[Achilles]

EDIT: @ Taak Farst

 

I don't know if I agree with this entirely.

 

I'm finding Shep's interactions with EDI to contain quite a bit of context, now that I can see it for what it is.

 

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

The Citadel is what the Geth are trying to evolve into (a single, enormous structure that house all platforms). In their "cycle" the organic vs synthetic war didn't go well for the organics. The synthetics, not wanting to wipe out organics (again, pay close attention to everything Legion tells us for context), let the non-advanced races live. They eventually evolve, develop AI of their own and the cycle repeats itself. At this point the Citadel steps in and creates a plan for periodically wiping out the advanced races, because as history shows, they all reach a point where they demonstrate that they're just not capable of getting along. With anything (see: Javik and the Protheans).

 

The events of ME3 allow Shepard to prove that the races can co-exist. His interactions with EDI show that AI isn't perfect or omniscient and can be influenced. He does it with EDI, he helps do it with the Geth, and at the end of the game, he does it with the Citadel. In order to guarantee that history is never allowed to repeat itself, the price of peace is "the synthesis" and the destruction of the mass relays.

 

It's not perfect. It does have some holes. But upon further reflection, I don't think it's nearly as terrible as I initially thought it was.

[Red Hessian]

@ logan23:

What did protesting against video game makers ever get anyone?

 

Hate to sound harsh, but you've got to pull you head out of the clouds regarding the "ending fix". It is what it is and, unfortunately, it will not change.

 

@ Achilles:

I still don't buy it. Because then...

 

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

... the moral of the day is: To be free of any kind of war or conflict with AIs, you have to become one with them. Or be reduced technologically to the stone age.

[Achilles]

It could be that this precisely the moral of the story and you just don't like it

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

They make it pretty clear that things are very likely to turn to **** again after the Reaper threat is eliminated. The turians, krogan, and salarians state several times that another war is certainly possible if not probable. For all his wisdom, Wrex still has an eye on rebuilding a Krogan empire.

 

So to me it still makes sense. Shepard's objective has always been to stop the Reapers. He didn't do it the way we were expecting and he had to give his life to do it, but mission accomplished.

[DarthParametric]

you've got to pull you head out of the clouds regarding the "ending fix".

Agreed. The notion that they will change the ending borders on delusional. Even if it were 100,000 people complaining on the forums, that's less than 3% of the sales in the first week alone. They couldn't give a toss whether you liked the ending or not. All you're going to get out of them is some PR statement rambling on about "artistic vision" or some such crap. The endings suck yes, but that's what we got. Vent by all means, but accept that it isn't going to change and move on with your life.

 

I don't think it's nearly as terrible as I initially thought it was.

The problem with the ending is not so much in the concepts of the ends themselves (although it was a pretty piss-poor selection), but the manner in which they were presented. The real issue is ultimately a lack of proper closure, both for the galaxy as a whole and more importantly for the personal story of our particular Shepard. At the end you are left in limbo, having no idea how things turned out. The game ends in the most basic definition of the term - it stops. There is no finale.

[Achilles]

I felt they were pretty clear in the ending that I got. *shrugs*

[DarthParametric]

You know what happened to all your squad members? ME2 squad members? Wrex? Earth? Palaven? Thessia? Rannoch? Tuchanka? Sur'Kesh? All the races thereof? I don't remember there being much detail about any of that.

[Achilles]

Was it spelled out in crayon and spoon-fed to me? No.

 

I think I would have been insulted if they tried.

 

EDIT:

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

They show you what happens to Joker and EDI. I feel safe assuming that the same thing has happened to all of my surviving crew members from the previous games, as well as all organic life in the galaxy.

 

EDIT 2: What "closure" looked like in my game:

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

Liara T'Soni - Fulfills life-long dream of meeting a Prothean, eventually "synthesized".

Miranda Lawson - Dies after killing her father to save her sister.

Ashley Williams - Overcomes "Williams' curse" by becoming the second human Spectre. Eventually "synthesized".

Kaidan Alenko - KIA on Virmire

Garrus Vakarian - Reconciles with father and becomes influential member of the Turian Hierarchy. Eventually "synthesized".

Urdnot Wrex - Unites clans, helps to cure Genophage. Eventually "synthesized".

Tali'Zorah Vas Normandy - Become Admiral, helps to broker peace with ancient enemy, breathes fresh air on ancestral homeworld. Eventually "synthesized".

Jacob Taylor - Leaves Cerberus, finds cause he believes in, and becomes the father he never had. Eventually "synthesized".

Thane Krios - Dies protecting Salarian Counselor.

Grunt - Becomes leader of an elite Krogan team. Eventually "synthesized".

Mordin Solus - Dies curing Genophage.

Samara - Commits suicide in order to protect only surviving daughter.

Legion - Sacrifices himself to free his people (a selfless act from something that proclaims to have no self)

Zaeed Massani - Eventually "synthesized".

Kasumi Goto - Eventually "synthesized".

Jeff "Joker" Moreau - Find true love, then gets synthesized

Jack - Makes peace with her past by working with gifted biotic. Eventually "synthesized".

David Anderson - KIA while defeating the Reapers.

Donnel Udina - Killed after becoming indoctrinated.

Steven Hackett - Eventually "synthesized".

The Illusive Man - Indoctrinated, then commits suicide to help save humanity.

[DarthParametric]

You don't need to be spoonfed for there to be decent closure.

[Q]

So, other than the craptastic ending, this is a good game, right?

[DarthParametric]

Yeah, as I said earlier there is lots of good stuff in the rest of the game. At least if you are carrying over an ME1/2 save anyway. Despite Bioware constantly drivelling on about what a great entry point this would be, I'm not sure what someone new to the series would get out of it.

[logan23]

Yes 98 percent of the game is great ... The ending is horrible.

 

Actually there are now articles in Forbes and a few other sites that are actually seeing there is an issue with the ending.

 

Yes they have our money from first wave of sales but they want to sell dlc and grow the IP. Bioware will see a drop in the dlc and lose money because people won't replay the game since there is no point. The IP is damaged and they need to look at the business side. They need a healthy IP. These lets say 100,000 fans are the same ones who would be buying the dlc more then the casual player who has gone on to the next big game.

 

I hate to say that after playing it once that I don't plan to playthrough again... But atleast the multiplayer is fun.... What they?! I should not be saying to myself hey at least the multiplayer is good... I should be saying how this was a great way the trilogy came together at the end ....but it didnt.

 

As a designer I see do many issues with the ending just on the game mechanic level.

[DarthParametric]

Nothing is going to change. As I said before, the people complaining are a mere drop in the ocean - they don't care if you walk away and never buy another of their games. In fact I think they'd be quite happy to see the back of most people on the official forums (which, to be fair, is not completely unwarranted given some of its denizens). They'll produce a heap of DLC and people will buy it in droves, so they'll have all the justification they need to keep doing what they are doing.

[MsFicwriter]

Hey, DarthParametric,

 

Could you please make a ME3 Choices Spreadsheet? It would be really easy, because you'd only have to put 3 choices on it.

[logan23]

Unless the media jumps into this, like people asking the mass effect table of developers and producers at PAX this April.

 

I agree that they might not change the ending but the bad blood will poison the mass effect IP. I have not heard one person I know in person who said I love the ending!

 

It's either it's huff ...apathy or omg what happen I'm confused what did they do this is horrible.

 

Like you said the fans might not be the game changer but the media might embrace them.

[Salzella]

OK I finished. And... I have no idea what to think. Maybe I'm just a bit drunk, but I kind of like the endings, even if

 

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

there's no happy ending, no house on a rebuilt Thessia and dozens of little blue children. Instead we get some meta stuff that, frankly, is right up my boulevard normally, but I did not expect. Personally I forwent the synthesis option - sounds sketchy in the extreme to me. I went for just destroying the ****ers. A blank slate, with no Reapers for god knows how long sounds just fine to me, and is what everyone was fighting for. The other ones are too out there to be anything I would choose. For this Shepard anyway (and regardless of the fact that the endings make little difference in terms of what we know happens). In hindsight it was really always the case that Shepard wasn't going to live, and I confess to liking the pretty much complete stop to the story, even if it does mean a thousand smaller stories that are left unfinished.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that drinking wine greatly improves the ending.

[DarthParametric]

Unless the media jumps into this

The media are siding with Bioware for the most part. Leaving aside the unwarranted derisive tone most articles are written in, they do have a point about entitlement, at least to a degree anyway. People demanding new/replacement endings is nonsensical.

 

The thing you have to remember is the people complaining about it aren't the target audience. Bioware know from long experience that their long-time fans bitch and moan and stamp their feet about every little thing, yet when push comes to shove they greedily gobble up whatever steaming pile of crap gets served up to them. The reason they stripped out the inventory in ME2 and added the action mode and merged everything into a single Awesome Button™ in ME3 was because they were chasing the console shooter demographic. That's really who the game is for (hence all the "great entry point" stuff). That group isn't going to care that the end is crap. Hell, half of them probably only got it for the multiplayer anyway and will never even touch SP, let alone see the ending. And for those that do, what is there to complain about? If you have no investment in the series then the ending is really meaningless. You just shrug, toss it in the pile and move onto the next game.

[Lynk Former]

I just wish people would stop trying to make The Matrix of worse... Evangelion style endings for stuff. Sometimes all you really need is something a little more clear cut and in Mass Effects case, something that actually made you feel like the choices you made amounted to something in that very last moment.

 

There were quite a few parts during the middle of the game where you felt this... and it felt great! So why not the ending? DLC probably.

[DarthParametric]

Lynk, did you notice the brief mention Oz gets?

[Lynk Former]

Australia always gets just a brief mention in everything XD

[DarthParametric]

I thought it was an interesting choice of mention though. Adelaide, of all places. You would think they would go with Sydney or Melbourne.

[mimartin]

Adelaide is the logical choice for BioWare, considering Austin, Texas has grown to be a pretty big hub for BioWare, Adelaide is Austin's sister city.

 

I remember in the 1980's the news networks even swapped desk reporters once a year for a week. About the only week I watched the news when i was in college.

[DarthParametric]

Ah, makes sense. Though you'd think they would refrain from wiping out their sister city.

[mimartin]

I finished last night around 1:30 am here. First I want to thank everyone for using spoiler tags in this thread. I knew a lot of you hated the ending, but thanks to you all using the tags, I did not know the reason why. I would also like to thank you all for lowering my expectations for the ending, because I was so worried about how terrible it would be that when I finally got there I found it better than I expected. Up until the final area, I thought Mass Effect blew away two of my favorite games up to this point, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. I had pretty much gotten everything and more out of the characters that I have grown to love and hate over the past 4 plus years. I laughed out loud more times than I can count during ME3 and I came close to tears on a number of occasions. A couple of the quests made my all-time favorite video quest “I Remember Me” look like it was from the old “Game Boy.” Had you all not been bitching, my expectations for the ending would have been though the roof based on the endings of different trilogy spanning story lines and I may have been in for a major let down.

 

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

I understand most of the ending. My only problem with it was why did the Citadel AI take the form of the kid? Other than that I believe all my questions were answered. Found out why Dark Matter was important part of ME2. Found out what I thought since Mass Effect 2, the reapers were not evil, just fulfilling their purpose. Cured the Genophage, settled the Geth/Quarian conflict. Found out why the Asari are so superior. Even figure out the place was going to be the Citadel. Not going to say it was the greatest ending, but not the worse ending of all-time either in my opinion.

 

I would have been even more disappointed with the ending would not have come with a cost. I always felt that defeating a enemy in the numbers and power of the Reapers should come with a heavy cost. My Shepard was never superman or superwoman, just a soldier unlucky enough/stupid enough to push Ashley/Kaidan away from that beacon. Had he/she not have done that then it would have been the story of Ashley Williams or Kaidan Alenko.

 

I didn’t care if mankind was destroyed as long as the cycle was ended, I didn’t care if the entire galaxy was destroyed, as long as organic life continued without the cycle, knew they would once again create synthetic life. My Shepard wasn’t fighting for humanity or the rest of the species, he was fighting for all life. In ME I thought Shepard was fighting for humanity. In ME2, I thought Shepard was fighting for organic life. In ME3, because of Shepard’s inaction with the Geth and EDI, I finally realized Shepard was fighting for all life.

 

If you can’t guess, given the three choices, my Shepard picked the Syntheesis ending. Not perfect, but Shepard could not betray EDI and the Geth, any more than he could betray Humanity and the Council Races (that and it was 1:30 am and I just kept walking forward). It was a heavy price, but to defeat a powerful foe sacrifices are required.

 

When Joker and EDI got out of the ship I was satisfied, when Tali followed shortly after I was elated. The only thing left was did life survive? Well the epilogue, answered that question to my satisfaction. 4.8/5 for me up until I meet the the boy AI, 4/5 after that, until I saw Joker, EDI and Tali, 4.75/5 final. That could go up after replay since now I know what to look for. My new all-time favorite quest is the quest line to settle the geth/quarian conflict, I have watch a alternative to what I got and if I’m really glad I got the good outcome there.

 

I will state the story is greatly incomplete without the DLC, it would be extremely difficult to piece together the patterns without Javik’s story and understand the galaxies misconceptions about the Protheans. Without that I assume the pattern is less visible or if you ignored him.

 

Below was my wild guess about what was going on right before going to on a few missions from the final that I sent to Achilles and stoffe so they could see how wrong I was. Take a look if you want to see how wrong or right I was.

 

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

This was written right before I went to Thessia...

 

Sending this to stoffe too, so she can see how wrong I am.

 

stoffe wait until you finished the game to read this, but these are not spoilers, just my wild, uneducated guesses

 

I’m just writing this down so I will have proof that I wrote it down. That way I can see how right or wrong I am.

 

The Keepers are the original life forms. They built the original reapers, much like the Quarians built the geth. Only in this case the Keepers lost to the reapers in their war. Also I remember the prothean mentioning that they built AI in their time too and had to fight them, only the Prothean’s won that war. I can see the Reapers finding it justice to repurpose the Keepers into slaves after they were built to be slaves to the keepers. The enviable conclusion (as seen by the Reapers) is that organics are chaos, machines are too ordered. The Reapers being a hybrid bring balance. They are not evil, they have a purpose and know that purpose. Their purpose is to bring order to the universe. They believe organics should not be fearful of them, but be thankful for them bringing order to the chaos and giving the organic a purpose. They don’t see it as genocide, but the next evolutionary step. So each cycle they evolve the dominate species to a reaper.

 

Don’t tell me how far off or stupid I am until I finish the game.

[Achilles]

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

I understand most of the ending. My only problem with it was why did the Citadel AI take the form of the kid?

They had to tie that off somehow. It reminded me a bit too much of

the movie Contact

[mimartin]

Been talking about this in skype, to keep acdcfanbill from poking his eyes out, I will post it here with spoiler tags.

 

 

I consider it a "good ending" (good in a paragon way) because Shepard has a chance to end the never ending cycle of war between AI and Organics. Not exactly the unicorns and Lollipop ending many seem to have wanted, but a chance for galactic peace is a happy ending. I would gladly jump into a energy beam and consider I had a good meaningful life if I could guarantee peace for mankind today.

 

Of course, some of you will remember I thought dying in DA:O was the good and noble ending