Details of Monkey Island

[KestrelPi]

30 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

I'm finally replaying MI1 in prep for next Monday (I mean I feel like I know the first three games off by heart)... and I'm sort of trying to break the game a little by NOT doing what it wants me to.

 

Like I'm NOT talking to the Important Looking Pirates, etc.

 

A nice little detail: You get slightly different dialogue if you talk to Otis before you talk to Shinetop (and you don't get the "pssst" scene, oddly). I love that stuff.

 

Anyway, playing it again just reminded me of the sleeping poodles puzzle: Was this the "monkey wrench" of MI1? Apparently the flowers are called "Caniche Endormi" but you only get that hint* from Otis if you select one particular dialogue choice at one particular point. If you miss it, it's gone forever.

 

* - Yes, apparently the flower's name is French for "sleeping poodle".

 

So how was anyone supposed to know that the flowers has a drowsy effect on dogs? Or poodles in particular? There's no clues anywhere in the game to that effect... is there?

 

Certain flowers have a poisonous effect on dogs, but is it widely known that they will get drowsy? Or is the idea that he was poisoning them, hence the "They're only sleeping!" message that pops up?

 

Maybe I just missed the dogs + flowers piece of general knowledge?

That puzzle has definitely been a sticking point for let's players I've been watching, but not as much as, say.... that dang seagull

[BaronGrackle]

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

I'm finally replaying MI1 in prep for next Monday (I mean I feel like I know the first three games off by heart)... and I'm sort of trying to break the game a little by NOT doing what it wants me to.

 

Like I'm NOT talking to the Important Looking Pirates, etc.

 

A nice little detail: You get slightly different dialogue if you talk to Otis before you talk to Shinetop (and you don't get the "pssst" scene, oddly). I love that stuff.

 

Anyway, playing it again just reminded me of the sleeping poodles puzzle: Was this the "monkey wrench" of MI1? Apparently the flowers are called "Caniche Endormi" but you only get that hint* from Otis if you select one particular dialogue choice at one particular point. If you miss it, it's gone forever.

 

* - Yes, apparently the flower's name is French for "sleeping poodle".

 

So how was anyone supposed to know that the flowers has a drowsy effect on dogs? Or poodles in particular? There's no clues anywhere in the game to that effect... is there?

 

Certain flowers have a poisonous effect on dogs, but is it widely known that they will get drowsy? Or is the idea that he was poisoning them, hence the "They're only sleeping!" message that pops up?

 

Maybe I just missed the dogs + flowers piece of general knowledge?

For me, I was looking for something to put on the meat to poison it, thanks to the Pirate Leaders.

 

Things I recommend:

- Add the flower to the meat by putting them both in the pot, for a thematic line from Guybrush.

- Try begging for 2 pieces of eight from random pirates, after you learn Otis needs a mint but before getting money.

- Give the troll wrong things three times, then ask about it.

-Try to fill the Ming vase with grog.

-Try to buy a file.
- Haggle for a better deal than 5000 pieces of eight and no extras.

- On Monkey Island's vista, use the telescope while the art is pointed to the corner, to let the Lookout of Mêlée catch a glimpse of you.

-At the end, save your game before talking to LeChuck at the wedding. ALL of these dialogue paths are gold.

 

I'm a fan of the variant where Guybrush says he has a wife and kids (Elaine shouting "I heard that!"), and later Elaine commenting about something her husband would say. Wholesome back-and-forth?

Edited September 13, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Huz]

54 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

On Monkey Island's vista, use the telescope while the art is pointed to the corner, to let the Lookout of Mêlée catch a glimpse of you.

 

Hah! I didn't know that changing the position of the art affects what you can see, mostly because it makes no sense. That's cool. Seeing animals in the jungle eating each other makes Monkey Island sound like a scary place!

 

But...

 

Quote

Add the flower to the meat by putting them both in the pot, for a thematic line from Guybrush.

 

This one seems like fake news - Guybrush just says it doesn't work. Unless you mean something other than the "yellow petals"?

[BaronGrackle]

45 minutes ago, Huz said:

This one seems like fake news - Guybrush just says it doesn't work. Unless you mean something other than the "yellow petals"?

Could it possibly be an addition of the VGA, not in the EGA? I learned about it from this video:

 

EDIT: One more fun thing: Spiffy the Dog can be the way that Guybrush learns LeChuck's name. So you can go Spiffy -> Estevan instead of Mancomb -> Estevan for that tale.

Edited September 13, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Huz]

Well well, if it isn't our old friend the VGA CD-ROM edition - one of the few versions I didn't try! I tried Amiga, EGA and VGA (not CD-ROM) in ScummVM and couldn't get Guybrush to say anything interesting when I tried to add the yellow petals to the stew. It would be unusual for the CD-ROM edition to have improved content!

[BaronGrackle]

7 minutes ago, Huz said:

Well well, if it isn't our old friend the VGA CD-ROM edition - one of the few versions I didn't try! I tried Amiga, EGA and VGA (not CD-ROM) in ScummVM and couldn't get Guybrush to say anything interesting when I tried to add the yellow petals to the stew. It would be unusual for the CD-ROM edition to have improved content!

So it was a CD-ROM addition?! How bizarre. I'd never heard of that version adding anything.

[Scummbuddy]

ScummVM option/fix to backfill this fix to all versions??

[ThunderPeel2001]

17 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

So it was a CD-ROM addition?! How bizarre. I'd never heard of that version adding anything.

 

Can someone confirm??

 

I actually discovered dialogue that I'd never seen before, last night!

• Keep asking the Storekeeper to visit Carla while you've got the sword and shovel in your pants, and then walk out the shop when he's gone... Sure, you'd tried that before, BUT KEEP DOING IT.

The dialogue keeps changing for far longer than you'd expect.

 

Actually made me lol. Can't believe there's anything new for me in this game after so long.

 

Plus, I'd never tried to fight Carla before I was ready before. 

 

Going to put grog in the vase tonight.

Edited September 14, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[BaronGrackle]

54 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Plus, I'd never tried to fight Carla before I was ready before. 

She has dialogue when you don't have a sword, and dialogue when you've trained but haven't won three fights, but my personal favorite from her is when you have a sword but haven't trained!

[Huz]

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

Can someone confirm??

 

I actually discovered dialogue that I'd never seen before, last night!

• Keep asking the Storekeeper to visit Carla while you've got the sword and shovel in your pants, and then walk out the shop when he's gone... Sure, you'd tried that before, BUT KEEP DOING IT.

The dialogue keeps changing for far longer than you'd expect.

 

Actually made me lol. Can't believe there's anything new for me in this game after so long.

 

Just for you, I acquired the CD-ROM version and tried putting the petals in the stew. He said the stuff about substitutions! And I tried it again on the Amiga version just in case I had gone insane, but still no dice.

 

The shopkeeper stuff is gold - I've never seen it before either. He even changes his mind about going one time!

[Huz]

And just for you, unspecified reader of the "Details of Monkey Island" thread on mixnmojo dot com, I have solved the mystery of the extra dialogue.

 

The "not a bay leaf, but every cook makes substitutions" line is there in the other versions, but you can only get it by doing "use pot o' stew with yellow petals", surely the actions of a maniac, and not the other way around. In the CD-ROM version, both work.

 

So it's not exclusive content added for the CD-ROM edition, just a bug fixed.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Wow. A legitimate bug that the CD-Rom version fixed. That's still a score for it.

 

1 hour ago, Huz said:

The shopkeeper stuff is gold - I've never seen it before either. He even changes his mind about going one time!

 

I know! I was literally laughing out loud. I wonder if I'd be laughing all through the rest of the game if I didn't know it so well.

[BaronGrackle]

I'm going to link a brand new "What is the Secret" video that seems put together pretty well.

 

The author is very aware that his video is going to be dated almost immediately, as RMI is coming Monday to wash all theories away.

 

I'm enjoying it as a tribute and final romp to the exciting mentality we've experienced in the MI fanbase for decades. We'll probably keep arguing about the nature of the Secret(s) in the future, but the dynamics of that discussion are going to be shifted when Monday arrives.

 

 

 

EDIT: Sort of a tangent: a lot of people mention anachronisms in MI1 and MI2 that point to the amusement park. What I rarely hear about, are the MI1 anachronisms that point to Mêlée Town being a modernish town - a suburban community.

 

- Election poster (akin to the town mayor)

- PTA (Parent Teachers Association)

- The city's Chamber of Commerce

- A clear division between the main city and the surrounding county, the latter of which has...

- A traveling circus in town

- A used car dealership... err, used ships

- A run-down old tourist trap area, Hook Isle, which has gone out of business

(- And later on Monkey Island itself, a series of bickering notes posted between local residents. I've seen a reddit thread compare it to notes left in an apartment complex. Also references to tourism being disrupted after LeChuck moved in - there goes the neighborhood!)

One could argue that before MI2, the Mêlée Island of MI1 checked more boxes for "tourist town" than for "theme park". That includes the Three Trials and t-shirts as tourist activities.

 

EDIT EDIT: Oh, he actually does talk about the "small town" stuff. I should finish it...

Edited September 15, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[ThunderPeel2001]

2 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

What I rarely hear about, are the MI1 anachronisms that point to Mêlée Town being a modernish town - a suburban community.

 

It's true, everything points to suburbia in MI1. I noticed that during my replay. As soon as I started reading your list, I immediately thought of other things that point to it, too... but now I can't remember them (middle aged tired brain 🤦‍♂️). When they come back to me I'll edit. 

[BaronGrackle]

15 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

It's true, everything points to suburbia in MI1. I noticed that during my replay. As soon as I started reading your list, I immediately thought of other things that point to it, too... but now I can't remember them (middle aged tired brain 🤦‍♂️). When they come back to me I'll edit. 

The video I linked got to the topic eventually, referring to MI2 things like the library.

 

Youtuber Scarfulhu reviewed MI2 and briefly touched on the three islands as government satires. Scabb is an anarchy where people are free... but a single bully takes over really easily. Booty is a democracy with lots of consumer goods... but everyone is fixated on partying and ignorant of danger. Phatt is a fascism with access to information (library)... but the leader benefits above everyone and openly works with LeChuck against you.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I'm pretty sure there's a bug where Otis is supposed to tell you he needs a file or something? Or to keep going on about the carrot cake? Or about the rats? Whenever I speak to him, though, he says he doesn't have anything more to add. It's only the really obvious item "gopher repellent" that gives you a clue that he might want it?

[BaronGrackle]

18 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

I'm pretty sure there's a bug where Otis is supposed to tell you he needs a file or something? Or to keep going on about the carrot cake? Or about the rats? Whenever I speak to him, though, he says he doesn't have anything more to add. It's only the really obvious item "gopher repellent" that gives you a clue that he might want it?

After you know you need the file, you can ask Otis or the Storekeeper for one. Otis will then tell you those lines about rats and carrot cake.

 

If you use the gopher repellent on the other cell, the rat will run away briefly.

[ThunderPeel2001]

1 minute ago, BaronGrackle said:

After you know you need the file, you can ask Otis or the Storekeeper for one. Otis will then tell you those lines about rats and carrot cake.

 

If you use the gopher repellent on the other cell, the rat will run away briefly.

 

That's what I was expecting, but Otis still had nothing to say. I think it's a bug. (One thing I did differently: I spoke to Otis before the PSSST scene.)

Edited September 17, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[BaronGrackle]

21 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

That's what I was expecting, but Otis still had nothing to say. I think it's a bug. (One thing I did differently: I spoke to Otis before the PSSST scene.)

So you can't ask him if he has a file? Weird.

[BaronGrackle]

I was looking through the MI1 text dump around the Storekeeper again.

Secret: http://www.lltvg.com/wiki/The_Secret_of_Monkey_Island/Script_dumps/en_full

Revenge: http://www.lltvg.com/wiki/Monkey_Island_2:_LeChuck's_Revenge/Script_dumps/en_full

 

Anyway, the Storekeeper is 83 years old (told when you apply for credit but admit you have no job). If he is that guy we've seen in the window of RMI, I wonder how old he is now?
 

When you say you wait tables at the SCUMM Bar, he answers this relevant line: "and I'm the Queen of England". That's of course relevant to the modern era of Elizabeth II when every Monkey Island game came out (until now), but it would also be arguably relevant to Elizabeth I (reigned 1558-1603), Mary II (of "William and Mary" fame, 1689-1694), or Anne (1702-1714).

 

But I see a line I don't quite remember, here...

 

Quote

Hah! I'll bet you would. But I haven't got any.

 

This looks like something Guybrush can ask for after he learns he needs it, similar to the breath mints or the file. But I don't remember it. Does anybody know what this is?

Edited September 17, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Jake]

1 minute ago, BaronGrackle said:

Does anybody know what this is?

Paging @Marius

[Marius]

1 hour ago, BaronGrackle said:

But I see a line I don't quite remember, here...

 

Quote

Hah! I'll bet you would. But I haven't got any.

 

This looks like something Guybrush can ask for after he learns he needs it, similar to the breath mints or the file. But I don't remember it. Does anybody know what this is?

I just checked: It's when you ask for rat repellent.

"I'd like some rat repellent, please."

[BaronGrackle]

4 minutes ago, Marius said:

I just checked: It's when you ask for rat repellent.

"I'd like some rat repellent, please."

Whoot! Thank you!  I love these little bits in Secret.

[Marius]

5 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

Whoot! Thank you!  I love these little bits in Secret.

Yeah, I can relate. Sometimes there are lines that make me go "Huh?! What? I didn't know this existed! I need to know everything about this!"

[Marius]

The grog-icon of the ReMI website actually dissolves towards the game's release. 😍 Never thought they would actually implement that idea.