ShockV1.89 Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Ok, it seems like a stupid question to ask... but there's a discussion at my college tomorrow night, and I'm considering going. It seems as though it's aiming at the music industry, as it displayed pictures of Eminem and Justin Timberlake on the flyer. However, it may spill over into other parts of "culture." It's run by an amateur rap and rhyme club thats predominatley black, so I expect to hear a alot of passion and forceful arguments from them. I have a stance on it, but first, I'd like to see what your opinions are. Discuss. Analyze. Give me ammo. [edit: Ok, I'm retarded. mods, could you maybe move this to the Senate Chambers? Thankys.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XERXES Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 i think its sad that "ghetto" ebonics...bling bling and all that mess is considered culture. It makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Originally posted by XERXES i think its sad that "ghetto" ebonics...bling bling and all that mess is considered culture. It makes me sick. Agreed. Rap is not Black Culture. Rap is Rap. It's like saying the song "Sweet Home Alabama" is southern culture. Anyway, moved at your request Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHobGoblin Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 What would the white culture have to take from the balck culture.... ummm.... I'll be back in a few millinias. I don't mean they don't have anything I'm saying what they have we don't have. I love debates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[RAA]-=Chi3f=- Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 my 2 pesos... If a prof. gave me that assignment, I'd be thrown out of school after they read my paper. It's a lot more complicated than "one group staling another groups culture" What about latins listening to rap? And J-Lo (Je-llo, Jenny from the block, whatever) marrying Puff Daddy and now Ben Aflek duck? Does that mean that a black person that has a high paying job is an OREO (black on the outside, white on the inside)? My point is is that just because r&b and hip-hop is popular right now, doesn't mean white culture is turning to black culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 It's interesting to note that the same thing happened with Jazz and Blues. In the 1920's, Jazz became very popular among black society. Young whites began to listen to this music, much to the chagrin of their families. Today, Jazz is internationally accepted as a true American art form, to which Rap has it's roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunClown Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I believe white people who try to act like black people are commonly referred to as white trash. However, Vanilla Ice was one of the first mainstream rappers if not the first and he was White. However, Rap has been around for a long time and so why wouldn't white people start to get more involved. Its just like Jazz. I don't think however, you can steal another's culture but rather mimic it or make it your own. Thats probably most important since thats what the whole debates about. EG. I saw on TV a while ago an African tribe who was taken over by Germans and forced them to live as Germans with the clothes and everything. Once the German oppressors left, they kept the German culture even though it gave them grief. I don't think the African tribe stole German culture. Because of the [strong] German influence the culture had changed though the African tribe remembered the 'old ways' as they were described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Originally posted by XERXES i think its sad that "ghetto" ebonics...bling bling and all that mess is considered culture. It makes me sick. Who are you to say what it is or isn't? Yeah It may sound a little silly but so does the way chinese sounds if you aren't used to it... I think that since the world is more mixed now than it was back in the OLD days there will be a mix of cultures, we are becoming more deverse and races are mixed in more, this is a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing because we can then learn more about eachothers race and roots. It's also a bad thing because it cause much conflict... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Ummm... how does one steal something from you by imitating your ways? You still got it, yes? Isn't the problem here simply petty people? "Hey! You can't say 'dawg' cause that's reserved solely for me and my boyz in da hood, 'aight?" PS. What's "dawg" Did I just make that up or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XERXES Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Originally posted by Lynk Former Who are you to say what it is or isn't? Yeah It may sound a little silly but so does the way chinese sounds if you aren't used to it... who are you to tell me i cant state my ****ing opinion. Chinese is a language, speaking ghetto is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 Ok, it seems like a stupid question to ask... but there's a discussion at my college tomorrow night, and I'm considering going. Do let us know how tonight's discussion goes. I'm an Anthropology student, so I've an interest in that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Originally posted by XERXES who are you to tell me i cant state my ****ing opinion. Chinese is a language, speaking ghetto is not. No need to swear now. So by your opinion I can't say "g'day"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 It's not that you can't say it, he's just saying you can't say g'day is a part of your culture....it's just slang or accent related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 but it is, g'day the idea of 'mateship', etc is a VERY australian thing and is strong within Australian culture. The use of colloquialisms is part of Australian culture. Perhaps it's hard for people outside of the culture to understand but it is and you can either tolerate it or just bitch about something that doesn't matter that much. If they want to say dog as 'dawg' they can. It's the same thing just written with their accent in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTeddyPaul Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Well well well. Try not to be a prick and I am not a racist. These thoughts in no way represent those of LF or any of its sponsers. Elvis Presely was so radical and new and "sinful" because back in the day he was the only white guy that could sing and "dance" like a black guy. Marshall is just a messed up kid. I forbid my sister to listen to any of his music. I will just not allow it into my house. I don't mind if she listens to Nelley or Ja Rule or even Snoop (some of them). I even listen to them sometime. Black rap and hate rap are two different things to me. She can listen to Vanilla Ice anytime she wants because that is just funny. White people want to be black people. I don't know why. Ever seen bodybuilders? They are sooooo dark that they look black. Aside from the abnormal muscles it just freaks me out about how not white they look. I took a course in college (Humanities 134: An insight into Black America) and it was a really revealing class to me. It was pretty werid because I was the only white student out of about 20 in there and I was almost always called upon to answer questions based on my "unique" perception. I take that back the teacher was also white. Ironic ain't it. A white teacher teching black humanities. There would have been more people there but the credits are not transferable to many colleges (GO COMMUNITY CHEAPO COLLEGE!) but I wanted to take it anyways. I remember one time I got into a heap of trouble for bringing up the subject of nigger. My friend of 4 years also went to that community college and he was talking to a buddy on the phone and he kept calling him a nigger and a queer which was not true at all but I asked the question in class why was this right. If I as a white person said these things I would be cut or threatened or something but he as a black man it is all cool. I was told it was acceptable for Asteway to say this because he was black and had earned the right to call people this. I posed the question then why it was alright for a young woman in the class to call my a cracker because I said the word nigger in class and had not directed it toward anyone. I said, "Shouldn't I be the only one, using your own rules, to be allowed to say cracker since I earned it." The lady apologized to me and just said she hates when white people say nigger. She feels that is a word that black people own and no one else. When it concers music I know most people (from my class) stated that rap is theirs just like Blues was oohh so long ago. This time they would not let it go. The reason for their apparent ownership was because it is a part of their culture and The Man was always bringing them down and taking the best part of their culture. Going more into culture Eubonics is a language and if people want to speak it by all means do. I however will not tolerate it when someone comes up to me and speaks stupidly (IMHO). If you cannot speak English properly or atleast attempt to then I will brand you as an idiot and not worth my time. If someone goes in for a job interview and speaks Eubonics because he is black the odds are he will not be hired because he cannot have improper English being spoken to unknowing customers. Same with turning in papers. If anyone turns in a papre which is not worder correctyl it is an F IMHO. I don't mind having a piece of cultural pride but at the same time you have to conform to your surroundings. It does not pay to be ignorant. I hope this is semi-ontopic. BigTeddyPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunClown Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 I have a black friend. You can call him nigger, jiggaboo, whatever you like and I'm white. But it is true, generally a white person can not call a black person a nigger but black people can. That seems a bit racist however, I'm only using the term racist because I don't know the proper word for this situation. I don't believe its racist by definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 What you talkin bout dog, can't a white dude talk ghetto? Yeh, I guess, I don't know. All of the stuff above is all I know about Ghetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 I don't think white and blacks can STEAL culture. If someone moves here from an other country, and they learn the language, wear the local clothes and eat local food. Have they stolen the culture? Nah, they just want to belong and to get along. I personally love black American culture. It's been my experience that most blacks don't mind if you like something they do and whites of course love blacks who act like white people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Well, at my current school, the only black kids there don't speak Ghetto, so I don't know any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Originally posted by BigTeddyPaul If anyone turns in a papre which is not worder correctyl it is an F IMHO. LMFAO! Sorry... you made VERY good points, but I couldn't help but notice that line! I think that young white people have a long history of imitating blacks as a part of protest. The imitation of blacks during the Jazz and blues era also coincided with protests for gender and racial equality. One of the more prevelant protest songs of the Jazz era was Billy Holiday's Strange Fruit (Louis Armstrong's Black and Blue was the first). Holiday was encouraged by a white college professor who was dismayed at the lynchings that ocurred in America during that period. Strange Fruit refers to the bodies of blacks hanging from trees. The song was an instant success and affected whites as well as, and perhaps more so, than blacks. Blacks already knew what was going on with lynchings... many whites did not. Today's white imitators may also be protesting .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Is there such a thing as "stealing" culture? I mean, we all shared the same culture a few million years ago, right? No really, if people are copying your traditions, isn't it time to be proud? I know there's a difference between choking down American culture on innocent arabs and letting arabs come to the states of their own volition, but I always thought it was good when people shared instead of hoarded culture. Brings people togevva, y'know? As for "nigger", that word exists in my language as well (neger). I'm perfectly aware that it's a very sensitive issue over there, but wouldn't it only be sensible to ban the word completely? Otherwise, some very confused white teenagers are going to grow up with their black friends who can use "nigger" all they want, but they can't. I don't think you can be proud of what you are. It's only reasonable to be proud of what you've done, but it's a stroke of fortune that made you American by birth. You had nothing to do with that, and no control over it. For the love of God, don't be "proud" to be white, arab, black, European or hindu. Be proud that you were able to get into the college you wanted. Be proud of getting that good job. Be proud of being human, until we encounter aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Well said, my friend. I will truly have to refer back to this statement in future discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Very nicely said, 'Jais. Well, I attended this "discussion" well prepared. I had even taken some quotes from this board and intended to use them in my arguments. However, this "discussion" turned out to be little more than an organized rant by several angry black supremists. They stated things like "black culture is very precious to the black people." and "once the white culture starts acting black, black people lose their identity." Of course, to that I would have responded by saying that one should be identified by their own individual actions, and not by being proud of how many times 50-Cent got shot. Unfortunatley, there was really no room for me to respond to this, because each person got one response. I stated (had it prepared) "The way I see it, African Americans, as a people, have fought long and hard to obtain proper integration, and although it hasnt completely been achieved, it has taken huge strides from it's original 'Seperate but Inequal' status. But the idea that black culture is reserved solely for blacks flys right in the face of proper integration. With integration of people comes integration of culture. It's natural. This is the way of America, and it always has been." To this, several people around me nodded in agreement. But the hosts, dressed in their black leather and panther shirts (a statement in itself) simply snorted and looked at the ceiling, gave me dirty looks, or muttered things to each other as they looked at me. What a damn waste of my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 What a damn waste of my time. Don't think that for a minute. I thought your statement was well thought out and informative, I'm sure there were those present that felt the same way. I'm also sure that you were not the only person to notice the extremist tendancies of the opponents to that idea. These notions affect people in both positive and negative ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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