IRAQ WAR is going badly

[rut-wa jodar]

I fear a re-run of the Vietnam war looming. I admit the war is only just over a week old but i feel the coalition is being outwhitted by conscripts. We are losing far too many soldiers by blue on blue fire and I feel the enemy has been extremely underestimated. We all knew that the Iraqi regime would try to draw the coalition into street to street fighting .

[BigTeddyPaul]

Ummm the coalition forces casualties have only been like 50 last I checked. In Veitnam the casualty rate was something like 1 in 12. This invasion is supposed to be around a 1 in 1200 or something. It has been a week. No one has really been underestimated. We have all the right technologies. We have the right people. Vietnam also lasted years in Jungle. This will mostly last in desert and urban combat. Tanks are used.

 

If you want a real discussion about this go to the Senate. There are some threads there that deal with this.

 

I think you are wrong but if you had better evidence of facts to suport your claim I would like to listen to it.

 

BigTeddyPaul

[[RAA]-=Chi3f=-]

I second that.

 

 

Good real life discussions at the Senate.

[Breton]

War hasn't gone badly, but much worser than they (the US gov) thought. They have met more resistance than they enticipated (sp?) and the Republican Guard and the Fedajin forces are still at large in Baghdad. These troops are elite forces and very loyal to Saddam.

[ZBomber]

Ug.. not another war thread. If you post them, do it in the Senate.

[Reborn Outcast]

Umm the war is going fine. Its just that now that the Iraqi's are reverting to suicide bombings and all that.

[TheHobGoblin]

Originally posted by rut-wa jodar

I fear a re-run of the Vietnam war looming. I admit the war is only just over a week old but i feel the coalition is being outwhitted by conscripts. We are losing far too many soldiers by blue on blue fire and I feel the enemy has been extremely underestimated. We all knew that the Iraqi regime would try to draw the coalition into street to street fighting .

Another vietnam!? We have been kicking their a** for some time now. They only won a few out of many skirmishes and we won alot of major battles. Don't start saying anopther vietnam becuase thats just false.

[RpTheHotrod]

Heard on the news that Iraq is estimated to fall within two weeks due to getting the U.N. involved concerning the P.O.W. killings.

[dark jedi 8]

i think the war is going well, just a little "bumpier" than the coalition forces thought.

 

i'm really hoping iraq doesn't do something stupid like release chemical weapons or anything nuclear. i doubt they would though.

[Luc Solar]

Just read a bit more about "the list".

 

The list contains the names of all countries that are supporting Bush and his war.

 

On the list we have 49 countries(!!) even though only the Brits, Australia and USA are fighting.

 

49 countries, quite a lot, eh?

 

If we look at the list we see that there's..the USA, Afganistan ( ) and some great military powers like Palau, Tonga, Honduras, Mongolia and Salomon Islands.

 

By the way - the prime minister of Salomon Islands was/is totally unaware of the fact that they are supporting the war, but... what the hell, right?

 

On top of that there are also 15 countries who support Bush, but don't want their names to be published. Gee... I wonder what the

people of said countries think about that? Our goverment supports the war but wants to keep it a secret! That means that perhaps even Finland is pro-war too...we just don't know about it!

 

I wonder what the list looks like. Please post a link, if you know where to find it. I bet it's filled with countries like Tijuana, and bingo-pango.

 

Oh, I found some other (old) link:

 

ANTI-WAR: Creece, France, Ireland, Belgium, Luxemburg, Finland, Sweden, Russia, Germany, Norway, Iceland, Austria, Slovenia, China...aah...I don't have time for this.

 

I want that list!

[BigTeddyPaul]

I thought Australlia was with the US for the war. Could be wrong but I thought they were pro.

 

BigTeddyPaul

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by BigTeddyPaul

I thought Australlia was with the US for the war. Could be wrong but I thought they were pro.

 

Austria - Australia. There's a subtle difference

 

I recall that Gonkh8r (sp) said that according to surveys the Australian people are against it... but that's probably going to happen with the US as well if the war lasts long enough and your boys are getting killed left and right.

[gonk-raider]

LOLOL.. going badlly .. we are bassicaly slaughtering any iraqie threats, we've almost taken the country expect for sprase pockets of resistance. the usa is owning.. with out...***** eroupean countries -wont name names- that only want to cash in on the rebuilding of iraq after we kick this Evil regime(sp) out. Saying this i will now make my statement defending the united states..

[gonk-raider]

I can't argue what's already been done - the US has always done what it believes to be the worst of two evils. We supported Iraq against Iran, we supported Afghanistan against communist Russia... I can't say that we've not done terrible things.

 

But no where does this say we're taking advantage of the rest of the world. It is dictators like Saddam and Kim that are a danger to freedom and democracy.

 

What I see now in these anti-American movements is a resolve to destroy the sovereignty of the US and the "American" way of life - capitalism. In a free economy such as Japan, there has been enormous technological advances that have paved the way for human progress in Asia. Even now, China is continuing to develop economic zones based on capitalist ideas - the improvements there are astounding.

 

We can no longer give trillions of dollars in foreign aid for it to be abused by these groups. The UN has funded weapons programs throughout the 60s.. arming and abetting known militant groups. France, Germany, and Russia are known to increase the military power of numerous totalitarian regimes. Our "Food for Oil" programs are going into the coffers of dictators such as Saddam, not the people who truly need it.

 

There is no other solution - if the US is hit again, the dollar and the world economy suffers. We've all seen that since September 11th.

 

On Iraq: yes we did support them and tried to leave them alone with their own sovereignty. Instead, they commit acts of murder on their own people and threaten numerous other countries around them. To see such hatred against Americans for enforcing our own ceasefire agreement with Iraq is just demeaning. American and other coalition forces stopped him from committing genocide and threatening 2/3s of the worlds oil supply. We still have maintained southern and northern no-fly zones to protect the innocents that Saddam is trying to destroy. We can no longer keep the status quo because he is not disarming.

 

I don't hear the "peace" protesters calling for Saddam to leave... to disarm.. to bring about civil and economic change. He is the one that is making himself better at the expense of everyone else.

 

We gave the UN a chance to remain united... instead they have chosen division. It is not us that have ruined the diplomatic process, it is countries such as France who would not even vote on a resolution. At this point, it does not matter. The UN has shown it is nothing more than an anti-American platform. When you have such countries as Libya on the human rights committee, and such countries as Iran and Iraq on the disarmament committee, you see how hard it is to take them seriously. When most of these countries are controlled by dictorial regimes, would you rather the UN control your country, or your country control your country.

 

I can't defend everything said in the website. But I do believe that we have a duty to defend ourselves. As Europeans are worried we will fail, Asians are worried we will win. At this point, doing something is better than doing nothing.

 

There will always be anti-American sentiment as long as their is human emotions. Because we support freedom and a democractic government, because we respect human rights and have capitalist society, because we have morals and views that are upheld through the Constitution. The envy and raw hatred I see is astounding. Yes Americans do have a better standard of living.. but it is because there is opportunity and the fight for freedom. Its not because we go across to foreign countries and plunder. We buy from countries so they can support their people. If we wanted oil, we would have taken it by now.

 

Coalition forces are the ones dropping food and supplements for the Iraqi people.. calling for them to surrender and not defend Saddam. We are the ones doing everything we can to minimize casualties... high-precision missiles are targetting military targets. It is Saddam's group that is threatening the lives of his people, housing military groups by water plants, power planets, hospitals... using mosques and other civilians as human shields.

 

As I see it, we need to resolve to fight terrorism and totalitarian regimes. We will use diplomacy as we can... 12 years of it didn't solve anything in Iraq. In other situations, it has worked effectively. We're not all gungho about using force, but we are ready to. Because we can no longer afford to "speak softly, and carry a big stick" - only by speaking loudly against such regimes can we change the status quo.

 

There are many many times in history where we could have established an American Empire - that's what you all fear. But it has not happened because that is not our motives, nor our intentions. Say what you will, but if that is what America was about, you'd all be Americans already

 

---

 

Man, all across the board today. Too many subjects to discuss.

 

I can't say I represent anyone but myself. These are my free opinions, and not representative of any group. Do not take this as the view of all Americans, because there are just as many that would hate me for writing this as there would be agreeing with me.

 

Nor do I believe that all others are anti-American. It is a small porportion of these countries' populations that are easily incited in these anti-American marches. If all these people were against the US, I'm sure I would not be talking to you now: as the evil Internet was invented for use by the American Department of Defense

 

Im back with a vengence

[Lost Welshman]

Apparently Sadam (If he is still alive) Only controls a small part of Iraq?

 

Cool, I dont think that means things are bad.

 

In the long run I think this war will greatly benifit Iraq, They are losing alot now, but it will all be made better in the long run.

 

I was watching a live speech of some Iraqi guy and he was thrilled that they had shot down an apache and some tanks, he was so proud that they had killed soldiers. America and Brittain are tearing their way through the Iraqi's and the Iraqi's think they are winning?

 

They are also trying to turn their people againts the British? Thats not Nice

[Kstar__2]

a nice fact:

 

the amounth of american soldiers that died IN A WEEK, is the about the same of people that get killed by gunfights EVERY DAY in america

 

no offence, but get your own country normal b4 you start complaining about how bad an invasion goes.

 

 

and something else, you are all saying the war is going badly, but the war is ONLY GOING FOR A WEEK, and they are already attacking bagdad, so how on earth can you say it is going badly.

 

 

i'll shut up now, but think about it.

[Breton]

Originally posted by gonk-raider

LOLOL.. going badlly .. we are bassicaly slaughtering any iraqie threats, we've almost taken the country expect for sprase pockets of resistance. the usa is owning.. with out...***** eroupean countries -wont name names- that only want to cash in on the rebuilding of iraq after we kick this Evil regime(sp) out. Saying this i will name make my statement defending the united states..

 

No one said the war is going badly. But it does go worse than they expected. The recistance has been more than they thought it would be, people are pretending to surrender and then attack, there are a good deal of ambushes going on, the Fedajin forces attacked the American troops earlier than expected, wich has made the US forces go on defensive in serveral areas. And USA hasn't even started the major battle yet.

 

We can no longer give trillions of dollars in foreign aid for it to be abused by these groups. The UN has funded weapons programs throughout the 60s.. arming and abetting known militant groups. France, Germany, and Russia are known to increase the military power of numerous totalitarian regimes. Our "Food for Oil" programs are going into the coffers of dictators such as Saddam, not the people who truly need it.

 

For one thing, the US precentage of total economy that goes to foreign aid is the lowest of all western countries. (BTW, if you want to know, the Scandinavian countries and the Benelux countries have the highest foreign aid precentage). You say trillions of dollars, but with today's foreign aid, you'll have to aid for nearly a hundred years to bring a total foreign aid to 1 trillion dollars.

 

And the "food for oil" programs doesn't directly aid Saddam, since food won't really support his country, but it will aid the civillians.

 

We gave the UN a chance to remain united... instead they have chosen division. It is not us that have ruined the diplomatic process, it is countries such as France who would not even vote on a resolution. At this point, it does not matter. The UN has shown it is nothing more than an anti-American platform.

 

So basically, you say that since they don't agree a 100% with USA, they are all anti-American? WTF?

 

When you have such countries as Libya on the human rights committee, and such countries as Iran and Iraq on the disarmament committee, you see how hard it is to take them seriously. When most of these countries are controlled by dictorial regimes, would you rather the UN control your country, or your country control your country.

 

Why shouldn't they have a right to have something to say? It is far worse giving veto rights to Russia and USA than letting such countries join the debate.

 

There will always be anti-American sentiment as long as their is human emotions. Because we support freedom and a democractic government, because we respect human rights and have capitalist society, because we have morals and views that are upheld through the Constitution.

 

That's not the reasons of why you are hated. People see you as people who care for nothing but your own good self, and there is actually much that has given them "reason" for believing this. I don't do so myself, mind you.

 

Coalition forces are the ones dropping food and supplements for the Iraqi people..

 

Coalition forces are the ones that made them need food and supplements in the first place. Coalition forces are the ones to cut of water and power supplies in Basra so that 100,000 children below 5 years may die of dehydration and sickness.

 

high-precision missiles are targetting military targets.

 

The only difference between "smart" bombs and normal bombs is that "smart" bombs hits the school at the side of the target instead of hitting the school down the street.

 

We're not all gungho about using force, but we are ready to.

 

Then I guess you can explain to me why you have rushed so badly for this war.

 

Nor do I believe that all others are anti-American. It is a small porportion of these countries' populations that are easily incited in these anti-American marches.

 

So you actually think everyone pro-peace are anti-American?

 

Yes Americans do have a better standard of living..

 

Most western countries have a standard of living equal to or better than USA.

[daring dueler]

i laugh at you hahaha! going bad yeah (sarcasm) its going good sure wel lost 50 too many soldiers but we are kiken ass and arnt quiten thats the marines and army for ya, ooooorah!

simper fy , carry on

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by daring dueler

I laugh at you hahaha! Going bad yeah right! (sarcasm) It's going good sure we lost 50, which is too many soldiers but we are kicking ass and are not quiting. That's the marines and army for you, ooooorah!

 

I had to correct the poor english in that..anyway..

 

Even though I do believe this conflict did have to happen( Saddamn was doing horrible stuff after all) I did feel that we rushed to fight them. Even though Saddam does have the capabilities for nuclear missles that could reach us, it'd take them a year to make a missle. If I'm not mistaken, North Korea already has a nuclear missle..either America attacked Iraq first because of Saddam's terrorism and dictatorship, or because of the oil( The Army did overtake the oil fields first...) in Iraq..it's second in total oil reserves only to Saudia Arabia(Sp?).

 

Oh and I do support the marines. I know that they are fighting for the country, and they had no impact on the decision of the war...however the goverment made the decision......

[Luc Solar]

I'd just like to point out one thing:

 

There's not a single army, a single soldier in the history of the world who has "wrongfully attacked" anyone.

 

They're always protecting their motherland or their faith or whatever. Even when they attack, they're "defending".

[Bonedemon]

>>Gonk-raider

This war on terrorism is going bad. You´ve(the US) just assured that you have about twice the amount of terrorists to fight. By attacking Iraq a very great deal of the arab/muslim populations around the world are very very mad at the US. That results a great increase in the number of terrorists willing to become suicide bombers.

 

There is this thing called democracy. It assures that everybody has a right to speak and that everybody can vote and have their own oppinion. I thought the US was one of it´s most stalwart defenders, but when you say that France among others are dividing the UN because they disagree with the US then you are of the bloody point of democracy. Then I begin to wonder whether they really are or not.

 

Smart bombs are perhaps only 10-20% of the bombs dropped in Iraq. The ratio in GW1 was 10%. That is not showing the greatest care for the people. The war is going great, but when the coalition forces reach Baghdad all hell is loose. If it gets bombed down to 1/4 of the elite of the elite(those 15k in Baghdad who are the only ones there) there´s still 3.75 k soldiers willing to die for Saddam and I guess that it will cost the coalition 1-3 thousand dead. City fight is favoring the defender.

 

Forced democracy is usually not a very good idea. Japan and Southern Korea are the only examples I can think of as beeing positive. This quest of liberty which The US administration is on is more like a money raid to me than anything else. Besides the US has toppled more than enough democracies. Afghanistan, which was supposed to be democratic by now, is just chaos. The sentiment has to be democratic/liberal else it will most probably fail. I fear that the US are just making another Balkan of the middle east like they did when they created Isreal.

[BigTeddyPaul]

Can someone explain to me how the person driving a tank gets shot. I was always under the impression that there was no means for small arms fire to get into a tank thus what made a tank ideal to be in/around.

 

This is in response to a tank driver being shot and driving his tank into a river where his other companions drowned.

 

BigTeddyPaul

[C'jais]

Originally posted by BigTeddyPaul

Can someone explain to me how the person driving a tank gets shot. I was always under the impression that there was no means for small arms fire to get into a tank thus what made a tank ideal to be in/around.

 

He couldn't have been shot through the vision as that's armoured.

 

If the crew wasn't buttoned up, the driver would sit with his torso exposed like the commander.

 

But really, something more likely is that the tank driver accidentally drove off the Euphrate bridge while crossing it, and the story was covered up as a lucky sniper shot.

[TheHobGoblin]

Originally posted by Bonedemon

>>Gonk-raider

This war on terrorism is going bad. You´ve(the US) just assured that you have about twice the amount of terrorists to fight. By attacking Iraq a very great deal of the arab/muslim populations around the world are very very mad at the US. That results a great increase in the number of terrorists willing to become suicide bombers.

 

There is this thing called democracy. It assures that everybody has a right to speak and that everybody can vote and have their own oppinion. I thought the US was one of it´s most stalwart defenders, but when you say that France among others are dividing the UN because they disagree with the US then you are of the bloody point of democracy. Then I begin to wonder whether they really are or not.

 

Smart bombs are perhaps only 10-20% of the bombs dropped in Iraq. The ratio in GW1 was 10%. That is not showing the greatest care for the people. The war is going great, but when the coalition forces reach Baghdad all hell is loose. If it gets bombed down to 1/4 of the elite of the elite(those 15k in Baghdad who are the only ones there) there´s still 3.75 k soldiers willing to die for Saddam and I guess that it will cost the coalition 1-3 thousand dead. City fight is favoring the defender.

 

Forced democracy is usually not a very good idea. Japan and Southern Korea are the only examples I can think of as beeing positive. This quest of liberty which The US administration is on is more like a money raid to me than anything else. Besides the US has toppled more than enough democracies. Afghanistan, which was supposed to be democratic by now, is just chaos. The sentiment has to be democratic/liberal else it will most probably fail. I fear that the US are just making another Balkan of the middle east like they did when they created Isreal.

 

My God....

They don't have enough people to beat us. The war for them is going bad, for us... think about this. We lost less then 50 people. Now they lost thousands of people. We are in Bahgdad or whatever right now. Our economy is going to get better. It's just the war jumped in. We are going to survive. The threat must be removed. I am sick of people who say the war is going bad when they have no solid agreeable proof. Don't start saying the war is going bad becuase that's just being stupid.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by TheHobGoblin

The threat must be removed.

 

I am getting mighty tired of this.

 

Saddam. Is. No. Threat. To. The. United. States. Of. America.

 

I am sick of people who say the war is going bad when they have no solid agreeable proof. Don't start saying the war is going bad becuase that's just being stupid.

 

I agree, the war is most definately not going bad. But please, look at what he writes. Bonedemon does not say the war against Iraq is going bad - he's saying your war against terrorism is going bad, because you'll create more terrorists from such intervention acts.

 

Here's how I think it will play out: Coalition forces enters Bagdad. Hundreds of bodybags get shipped back the US from streetfighting casualties. The American people do not want to see hundreds of bodybags. Coalition forces bomb the sh*t out of Bagdad. Coalition forces win.