JK: Jedi Academy Info, Pics and Discussion! (ancient)

[TSL_Mortis]

just dont forget the guns

 

a saber is nice to have (especially in SP) but in Multi, guns are whear it is at.. after all it is still an FPS, no matter how cool a saber may be...

[Bizzaro-Zero]

Holy sh*t JKIII is SWEET!!!! i gonna liek beg my mom for that game lol but she'll say no.

[Spaceball_One]

sequel to jedi outcast? best news i've heard all day!!

 

the only thing i would really ask the developers to take into consideration is this: can you please PLEASE make the "bullets" move through the air faster?

 

i really hate FPS games where you can sit down and watch the bullets take their sweet ass time travelling through the air... the worst example coming to mind is 007 Agent Under Fire, i remember trying to take out a lone guard with an AK or somethin from a distance and actually watching the bullet fly through the air. meanwhile, the guard had enough time to hear me shoot, process this thought and run out of the way, and call for backup BEFORE the bullet hit the wall. ridiculous.

 

this is all i ask of you... the oppertunity to do some ownage with the stormtrooper rifle... and possibly the bryar/pistol (if you speed up the rate of fire so it functions as a more of a handgun... a la the handguns in counter-strike) oh and before i forget, the return of the REPEATER RIFLE. thank you and goodnight.

[Matariel]

Saber fights sucked in JK2 when ppl just went crazy, the SP fights were much cooler and focused on combos and attack moves, MP was a hack fest.So here are my suggestions (everyone else is posting theirs so why not me )

 

Saber Combat: Blocking moves must be done with a direction, ie. if you're being attacked from the left, you must press BLOCK+LEFT to move the saber to that side. Obviously blocking lasers etc will still be automatic, but blocking sabres will be manual. Or a slightly different system, blocks are made automatically for a saber hit, but unless the player does the BLOCK+<DIRECTION> keypress, you still get some damage, or you get pushed back.

 

Saber Locks: Saber locks too were a click-fest in MP, whoever had the better mouse won Make some 'escape' moves for the lock...an offensive move, like a puch/kick, or a force move, where you attempt to do damage to the other player. Some risk is involved with the offensive move though, if you miss or stuff it up, it'll leave you vunerable. A defensive move would include a force-push and jump backwards or something like that. No chance of doing damage to the other player, but it'll allow a better position to make the next attack.

 

Guns: If this game is going to be totally jedi orientated, there should be much use for gun should there? but the Raven people said there will be more guns than JK2. So, situations where a Jedi in training might use a gun? Broken/Lost lightsaber, after the Jedi has been captured, gun specific tasks (like shooting a button or something, or blowing a hole in a wall) A Jedi is taught to use everything at his disposal, even guns.

 

RPG gameplay: While i dont think this is a good idea per-se, the idea of 'experience points' to gain force power skills would be good. Do more challenging missions and you get more points. Also, making your character (clothing/race/appearance etc) really does sound like an RPG...

 

If Raven doesnt take some of these points up, i'll just code them myself when the game comes out

[AKPiggott]

Originally posted by txa1265

I asked that myself, and got a 'definitely ... don't know;-)" from Chang. I am hoping that they do. Imagine 'kill the sith' or 'kill the jedi' missions, or 'escape' or 'rescue' whetever ... nice possibilities for extended playability.

 

Mike

 

Sorry I missed that... I've been skipping most of this thread... it's mostly complaints about really obscure and practically un-noticeable saber details.

[Guest Jolts]

material so in a manual your system would read something like this?

 

Offensive mode

LMB - swing left

RMB - swing right

MMB - swing top to bottom

SpaceBar - switch swing styles

CTRL- switch between Saber modes offense/defense

 

Defensive mode

LMB - Block left

RMB - block right

MMB - block center

Spacebar - switch block styles

CTRL- switch between Saber modes offense/defense

 

W - Move Forward

S - Move Backward

A - Strafe left

D - Strafe right

C - Crouch

Left Shift - Jump

 

to me I like how obiwan controlled, I could swing left/right/top to bottom standing still, or while running. That gave good simple control over the saber and really made you feel like you earned your kill vs JO's blocking and enemies running into your block animation and dieing while you try and get close enough to just swing at them.

[T-Dogg]

Originally posted by AJL

This is what sabers are look like in JO (and they aren't even close to movies...)

 

This is closer (not exactly but closer) to what i think they should be like

 

Is that some mod? If so, which one?

[Tremayne]

Originally posted by Matariel

Guns: If this game is going to be totally jedi orientated, there should be much use for gun should there? but the Raven people said there will be more guns than JK2. So, situations where a Jedi in training might use a gun? Broken/Lost lightsaber, after the Jedi has been captured, gun specific tasks (like shooting a button or something, or blowing a hole in a wall) A Jedi is taught to use everything at his disposal, even guns.

 

I think there will be many players which want the rifles. After JK2 many people think that it is only a further Shooter. And Raven would not like to lose these customers

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Jeff 42

Kyle Katarn is a Jedi. Kyle Katarn uses guns. Kyle Katarn is a character in the Star Wars universe. A rocket launcher is a gun. Jedi shooting rocket launchers is not contradictory to the Star Wars universe. QED.

 

This gets brought up so much and I find it very annoying that some people seemingly want to force their ideas of what these games should be on others. A new class-based MP gametype would be cool. But if they force people to choose between using guns or using the Force in normal FFA/CTF games, it would kill the DF series.

 

1. Kyle Katarn was a convienient fiction created specifically for the DF series. He's just a mechanism to allow the player to go through the single player games and have a full arsenal at their disposal. He is not representative of the general Jedi populace. He is the exception.

 

A better solution to this would have been to let the player take over different characters at different parts of the game with different skillsets. Certain missions would begin with you as a Jedi, while others would begin with you as a smuggler, bounty hunter, soldier, etc. with access to their specific equipment and skills. This would also act as a primer for a class-based multiplayer game.

 

2. Allowing all players to use all weapons, equipment and force powers (of their force side) at all times led to homogeneity in jk2 MP. This was bad. Everybody was pretty much playing the same character.

Look at it this way: how much less fun would Battlefield 1942 be if everyone was allowed to carry all weapons/equipment at all times? Not much.

 

God, I can't believe I'm getting dragged back into this. You guys are going to make me do another mod if you keep this up...argh.

[leXX]

Just don't be starting another ASC.

[Spider AL]

Sorry Arti, but there are many examples of Jedi using weapons other than the lightsabre in the EU, of which the DF series is a part. Kyle's not alone. And ALL Jedi are "convenient fictions" depending on what story you want to tell. They ain't real.

 

Secondly, from a competitive point of view, everyone having access to the same abilities was a GOOD thing for multiplayer. If a class-based system was instituted, most people would have ended up using the same class in FFA, the most powerful class, just as they always end up using the same force-powers. In fact, if there was ANYTHING wrong with JO multiplayer from the outset, it was the fact that you had to choose between light and dark powers instead of having all at your disposal, and also the fact that most servers used Jedi Knight force levels, and on that level there weren't enough force-points to allocate. People ended up using the one or two most powerful light/dark powers and that was it.

 

Class-based multiplayer is good in a TEAM game, but no other game. And Team modes do not make up the whole of the DF series' modes.

 

Finally the Jedi Academy isn't technically part of the Dark Forces (Kyle) series as far as I'm aware, so gunplay shouldn't necessarily be the main focus. But gunplay HAS always been central to the Dark Forces series, and nobody should attempt to change that. If and when the next Dark Forces game is made, it should have plenty of guns, and plenty of scope for their use.

 

That's the game. What would Quake be without guns and gibs? It wouldn't be Quake anymore, that's what.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

*agrees with Spider_AL*

 

Although I would like a proper guns presence in JA.

[Valo]

The game is called Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, you take the role of a jedi in training, therefore you will be using the Lightsaber more than guns. if u were going to be using guns through most of the game it would be could Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 3. god there are still months before the game comes out and people are already starting to complain.

[Obi_Kwiet]

Look maby guns dont exactly fit into the storyline but i want them anyway. I'm sure the guys at Raven will thing of something because they did say they would have more guns than JK2....

[AJL]

Originally posted by T-Dogg

Is that some mod? If so, which one?

 

SFX2

[AJL]

One thing i would like that they also make differently is the

SITH/DARK JEDI clothing, behaviour, way how they talk...

 

(I mean in JK1 and 2 they always have funny/stupid looking

colorfull clothes and they always laugh and irritate and...

but in movies they are very disciplined and serious and

their clothes are always dark/black and...)

 

I know that it is new rebublic and new styles and bla bla

bla but those siths just doesn't feel same... (and movie

siths are BETTER!)

[Spider AL]

I have to agree there, AJL. Sith should be much more serious. Being full of Rage does NOT turn you into a maniacally cackling buffoon like Tavion or Reborn.

[Proto]

I would say that all Desann's army has nothing to do with the Sith. They're just a bunch of imbued clowns having no idea about the Force.

[Spider AL]

Proto, that's a whole other debate In my view, Sith are Dark-Side Force adepts, named after the ancient cult devoted to the same. So (and this is just my opinion... but it's right ) any Force adept who uses the Dark Side should by rights be called a Sith.

 

Same with Jedi, Light-Side Force adepts. "Dark Jedi" is naturally an oxymoron.

 

But that aside, Sith, Dark Jedi or Imbued clown, the Dark Side shouldn't turn you into a giggling fool like Tavion or Reborn. That's just the old evil-laugh moustache-twirling bad guy stereotype. Darksiders should be more like Vader or Maul. Dark. Serious. Dangerous.

[CanadianSurfer]

This discussion belongs somewhere else...

[AJL]

One thing that was pretty much right in JK2 about those DARK

SIDERS/ SITHS is that there were like there should be Master

and Apperintace... (not huge amounts of siths like in JK1)

 

Of course assuming that those reborns weren't really siths

but just some freaky force soldiers...

[Obi_Kwiet]

I agree. Imagine the Emprorer bouncing around Luke Laughing like some kind of a maniaic.

[Dunedain]

A good point has been raised about the enemies in JK II. First off, true Sith

are trained and studied in the ways of the old evil Sith servants of the dark side.

Examples of this would be Darth Vader and Count Dooku. These guys running

around in JK II, such as these "reborn" types, aren't real Sith. Actually, I'm not

sure what they are, since this whole thing about somehow having the force

stuffed into them doesn't make any sense. They aren't even fallen Jedi, since

they were never Jedi to begin with. And I hope Raven will stick to accurately

portraying this according to Star Wars canon in the future.

 

And I agree that if one is to encounter a Sith in the JK III, he shouldn't be

acting like some giddy nut case. Being a Sith certainly does make one evil,

but that doesn't mean that one suddenly begins to spout off like the Joker from

Batman. You'll note that the real Sith in Star Wars are quite serious in

their pursuits, sinister and ominous. Not cackling madmen. And I hope Raven

will keep that in mind when making JK III.

[Kurgan]

Bah, those brown desert robes and bantha herder outfits worn by the Jedi really lack variety.

 

I'm glad we get the cheesy outfits of other styles. In multiplayer all of that roleplaying stuff comes down to personal preference. So sure, I hope you get your jedi robes and sith movie outfits, but I hope there's lots of other neat outfits to wear too.

 

As far as Dark Jedi being an oxymoron, remember that the Sith are just one dark side religion (just as the jedi are one lightside religion). There is NO PLACE in the Jedi Order for the Dark Side, thus any Jedi who uses it becomes an outcast sooner or later.

 

They don't HAVE to join the Sith. Since the EU authors didn't understand GL's fleshed out history of the Sith the made up their own story. So we have force adepts who are not Jedi or Sith, Dark Jedi, Sith, and Jedi.

 

As to guns, just check out the EU... even the Jedi in Tales of the Jedi (the so-called "golden age") use non lightsaber weapons in battle, including guns. Luke carries a gun in the movies. Obi-Wan uses guns in the other Episode I games. And in multiplayer its all about personal preference. In a class based game I can understand limiting the weapons though...

 

As to Dark Jedi laughing and over-acting, check out Palpatine in ROTJ.... he's a grinning, gloating, cackling maniac. If he had a moustache, he'd be twirling it with the best of them.

 

If you were drunk with power and thought you had your enemy in a corner, you just might feel like that. ; )

[Moradivh]

Hello. Long time....

 

/rant on

I don't know what the new gametype(s) are. I wouldn't be surprised if it was something objective-based.... but are they gonna add a horde of totally new classes to multiplayer, stuff that has no relevence to the game's storyline? I doubt it. As much as I loved promod's different classes, they exasperate the difficulty of achieving proper game-balance tenfold. And even if they did make a bounty-hunter perfectly balanced against Jedi 1on1, they'd still have to re-balance them for gametypes like CTF, FFA, etc. It's incredibly complicated, and it'll leave alot of players out in the cold: i.e. the people who love full-force with guns, or no-force sabers, some of the same people who weren't fond of promod, except even more so.

 

O'course, some folks think no-force and full-force-guns is stupid, and shouldn't be included anyway. Less gametypes mean less division in the community, right? Wrong. If Raven designs force like they did in JO (and it looks like they will), alot of players are gonna hate it -- they'll make mods with no-force/full-force-guns, and because they're filling a need in the community, these mods will likely be very successful in dividing the community into bitter little pieces.

 

No, if Raven's gonna have any classes at all, they'll keep it simple: Jedi and Sith, and both can use any gun they want. I doubt they'll get rid of classes entirely as Spider suggests, as that would annoy yet more players, and you'd see yet another half-assed mod with the Jedi and Sith classes ripping up the community.

 

In any case, if Raven's going to add objective-based gametypes, I'm sure they'll design them like they always have: with all weapons/force powers. No jetpacks, no bounty hunters, nothing like that. Frankly I HOPE this is the case, because if they DO add jetpacks etc., it'll likely be half-assed and not well balanaced.... they just won't put enough time into getting it right, and it'll divide players even worse than in JO. I mean, after months of JO patches, Raven still couldn't even get the game's 2 classes - Jedi and Sith - balanced at the top competitive level (not that they tried hard -- Raven seemed more interested in how the game played at the n00b level). I don't blame Raven for their priorities, I just hope they don't try to tackle too much at once this time. My biggest fear is that Raven doesn't balance what gametypes they DO put in, adding features instead of fixes in patch after idiotic patch.... this is what hurt the JO community the most.

 

Anyways, I'd love to play an objective-based, class-based Star Wars FPS, with jetpacks and grappling hooks and all sorts of cool stuff. But I don't think Raven's gonna make the whole thing for us, or not done the way it should be. They're too busy with the singleplayer game, and even if they weren't they STILL have to live up to the expectations of many Dark Forces/JK fans who want full force with guns.

 

So.... if we want an objective-based, class-based game, some of us are gonna have to mod the whole thing ourselves. And on top of the daunting balance issues for such an endeavor, we'll probably have to make alot of completely new maps that take advantage of the new class abilities, cause Raven's vanilla maps, even if objective-based, will NOT have jetpacks in mind, among other things.

 

So I'd suggest you modders/mappers/whatevuh start conspiring together, planning your angle of attack, and get ready for a lot of work, if you want to see the above. Fortunately we already know alot of what's possible with the Quake3 engine, and no matter how many modding tools Raven keeps from us, it looks like they want to open up a little more with JA. So I doubt stuff like jetpacks would be difficult to recreate.

/rant off