BaronGrackle

I've said a lot of passive aggressive and regular aggressive things about this game, and I'll probably have more in the future, so I should make note of my positive thought so far: I was kind of anxious that Ron Gilbert was going to give us a single explanation for this world, and tell us (in George Lucas fashion) that this explanation was his singular vision that he had from the very beginning. But I don't think he's taking that path. I feel like this setup with unreliable narrators... not just one unreliable narrator, but multiples... is a humble rejection of that singular vision concept. But it's also a setup that has a lot more beauty than simply saying: "Don't think about it too hard." And if so, then I'm relieved. I couldn't have believed this was just a straight story like On Stranger Tides, because of the goofiness and modern bits. I couldn't have believed this was just a nine-year-old imagining things, because of the adult thoughts and comments Guybrush occasionally has. I couldn't have believed that the ORIGINAL original Secret of Monkey Island was something unrelated to a voodoo hellgate, because I've read Gilbert's own words in the earliest design documents. Monkey Island is literally a fictional setting that has shifted over decades due to multiple writers, due to the changing perspectives of the same writers, and due to the reception of those stories by the audience/fans - an audience which has included previous writers from earlier entries of the series as well as future writers of upcoming stories. The first game had its beginnings before Indy Last Crusade and wasn't finished until after... I have no doubt Ron and the others had multiple ideas about the game's nature that evolved up to the day of that game's release, and continued evolving beyond it - and that's even before considering the sequels. If you wanted, you could illustrate this metaphor by taking an image of that park bench scene and photoshopping Ron's head on Guybrush, with people like Ahern, Ackley, Clark, Stemmle, etc. as the surrounding kids. And because the franchise has existed for decades, people like Jake here would have actually been kids when the first story was told. And naturally, there's no reason to think Guybrush would tell the same story exactly the same way as he would have several years ago... especially after he's heard variations of those stories repeated by the kids, and wants to enthrall them further. I've heard the George Lucas narrative of a singular, unchanging vision which I can't quite believe (because we know things have changed with him). I've heard the Tad Stones narrative of no continuity whatsoever, which I can't quite believe (because there are pieces to the stories that clearly carry over, so "no continuity" seems like a cop-out). With those other writers and universes in mind, it's nice and a bit refreshing to have the Monkey Island story microcosmed to this image. So thank you for not lying about a single genius vision, but also for not telling us "don't think about it too hard". Because goshdarn, I like to think about it too hard.

Well, I figured the outhouse was really a restroom that was modern enough to have a "please wash your hands" sign... I figured the gross poo water coming from a crack in the wall was really slightly-less-poo water coming from a sink... I figured the vender was selling food for modern currency instead of pieces of eight... and that it would be selling more ordinary weenie hut food, which the boys would imagine as pirate themed things like "scurvy dogs" and "grog"... I figured that that anchor with a plaque was really something like Lafitte's Anchor at Disneyland... I figured the barrels didn't really have rats with sunglasses floating recreationally... 😎 ...I was thinking it was boys in a very small amusement park imagining they were in pirate times, but are you guys saying that it's actually boys in an ordinary community park imagining they're in pirate times cursed to look like a large amusement park, or maybe imagining pirate times overall but very briefly imagining it as a large amusement park, before going back to the pirate times game? 🤯

Wait... are they really at an amusement park but then imagine it as a little town park, or are they really in a little town park but were imagining it as an amusement park? I had thought it was the former (really amusement park) because they were interpreting the modern setting down to pirate times... when they got the key to the "outhouse" and went inside a giant outhouse room (I don't think outhouses work like that, a big room with a "please wash your hands" sign), I figured it was actually a small restroom. And I figured they were ordering weenies but imagining them as disgusting "scurvy dogs".

Did the Prelude tonight! I guess I owe an apology to my defamation of Bill Tiller. The Calvin and Hobbes stuff is definitely there. I wonder if that Chucky kid is ever weirded out that Mr. Threepwood has so many stories about fighting a pirate named LeChuck. I shall continue following this string to see where it leads.

The other angle is: the opening of Curse kind of copies the ending to Secret. LeChuck threatens Elaine, Elaine has things under control, but then Guybrush introduces a new set of problems. Like you said, Guybrush causes trouble by acting before he thinks. It's not a perfect comparison, but "LeChuck was behind turning Elaine into gold" is along the wavelength of "LeChuck scared away the monkeys who had Elaine's root beer". Romantic redemption in CMI may require a lot of subtext, but "copying the motions of MI1" requires much less!

I don't want to hover like it's a huge deal; I can think of it as Guybrush being forgetful/vacant. I rank it up there with MI2 asserting that the Voodoo Lady helped make the voodoo antiroot in MI1. (Which I blame on Voodoo Lady's mindgame machinations, of course...) But aside from that.. 1. LeChuck wanted Elaine made into an undead-demon bride, as stated and attempted via Voodoo Cannonball at Part 1, and then via cursed lava rollercoaster at the endgame. (Regardless of having a hold filled with random voodoo crud, of which many could have damaged or cursed Elaine if used on her.) 2. Even if LeChuck had planned to make Elaine a statue, it was Guybrush who did it. LeChuck exploded and was MIA, presumed defeated, when Guybrush did what he did. Accept your own responsibility, Mr. Brush!

The daughter and wife are binging old Criminal Minds together, and I think daughter also has a math test this week. If all else fails, I'll pull the kids out of bed in the wee hours of Saturday morning to get through those first ten minutes Noah Falstein was so excited about.

I'm dodging this thread because I've only gotten through the Scrapbook so far, but I wanted to post about the Scrapbook. I probably won't even be able to read replies until my kids and I get through the Prelude. 1) Extremely pleased that all the MI games are represented here. Before the scrapbook teaser was revealed, I wouldn't have guessed that MI2 only had as much coverage as any other sequel. 2) Neutral surprised at the coverage of Guybrush and Elaine's wedding, as much as a sequel game! But I assume it means this game will address something about their wedding or marriage. 3) A little bit miffed/disappointed at the CMI recap, the way it presents Elaine's statue curse as an act of LeChuck in two separate voiced comments. It was even to the level of irony, when Guybrush remarked that LeChuck must only see Elaine as furniture - dude, he was vaporized before you transformed her! YOU DID THAT TO HER! THAT'S WHY SHE PUNCHED YOU! 🤪 I didn't expect Guybrush to wallow in remorse here, but his failure to remember this was HIS mistake... along with the MI2 page showing Elaine coming after him without Guybrush acknowledging that he'd basically rejected her for his map quest (MI2 was the lowest point in their relationship, but it gets an "Elaine is always there for me" or some such)... juxtaposed with the big happy wedding page? It kind of lessens him as a character to me. 4) Though not egregious, his Tales memory of Morgan really dwells on her betrayal without mentioning her role/redemptive aid at the end, huh? Especially since it wasn't technically a betrayal; she already told him that she was there to capture him. But someone who watches this recap without knowing the game will assume they parted ways as enemies. I wonder why the game doesn't use that trailer picture we saw of Elaine dueling Morgan? I wonder what Guybrush means when he says "or so it seemed", regarding the Pox. Maybe that's related to stuff the Prelude will reveal to me. Nice picture of the cat and magnet. 😆 EDIT: 5) Guybrush making the prosthetic abomination in Escape is officially Roncanon. Ha!

The winner will be the final monkeys that LeChuck and Elaine dropped off in Tales. They went to all those other islands to drop off other monkeys first.

Be excited that this is Ron Gilbert with a new Monkey Island game. Don't be excited for a game that you've been waiting 30 years for that finishes a trilogy... Ron has said repeatedly that game never existed. Even though this is the Secret he had in mind for 1990, he did not have anything about this game or its story yet. He was going to do something with Guybrush in hell. This isn't Monkey Island 3a; don't hype for it to be that game. Hype yourself by thinking of all the games Ron Gilbert has made that you like, the ones from decades ago as well as the modern ones. This is another one of those. Maybe that will temper the anxiety about fulfillment.

Looking at images of the Locksmith, I realize I had thought she had a little bit of a five o'clock shadow across her face, which combined with the shaved head to make me think masculine. I saw a different color for her nose, ears, and top of the head, and there are goggles obscuring the eyes and surrounding face, that made me think the area below her nose was beard scruff. But I hadn't zoomed in before. Zooming in, I see the jaw color is actually her skin color... the nose and mouth just have different colors to stand out, with her left ear and top of her head somewhere between them. Her right ear has her standard skin color but with earrings, which I had previously thought was the same stand out color as her left ear. Now that I realize the darker tone is her general skin color, my eyes finally notice her collar and V-neck, much I must have completely ignored earlier when interpreting the jaw as a five o'clock shadow. Rex says, "But if you look at her, I feel like it's obvious that she's not a guy", and yeah I believe him. Again, I blame the goggles and Gnomeregan.

He's right that the bald/shaved head is why I didn't guess she was a woman... that and the resemblance to a World of Warcraft male gnome! I imagine hearing the voices will change our perspective a little, as with the short Pirate Leader on the right. EDIT: Related, I think a lot of us in earlier days thought Wally was a literal child, possibly thanks to Curse's voice actor.

Whoot! Thank you! I love these little bits in Secret.

I was looking through the MI1 text dump around the Storekeeper again. Secret: http://www.lltvg.com/wiki/The_Secret_of_Monkey_Island/Script_dumps/en_full Revenge: http://www.lltvg.com/wiki/Monkey_Island_2:_LeChuck's_Revenge/Script_dumps/en_full Anyway, the Storekeeper is 83 years old (told when you apply for credit but admit you have no job). If he is that guy we've seen in the window of RMI, I wonder how old he is now? When you say you wait tables at the SCUMM Bar, he answers this relevant line: "and I'm the Queen of England". That's of course relevant to the modern era of Elizabeth II when every Monkey Island game came out (until now), but it would also be arguably relevant to Elizabeth I (reigned 1558-1603), Mary II (of "William and Mary" fame, 1689-1694), or Anne (1702-1714). But I see a line I don't quite remember, here... This looks like something Guybrush can ask for after he learns he needs it, similar to the breath mints or the file. But I don't remember it. Does anybody know what this is?

So you can't ask him if he has a file? Weird.

After you know you need the file, you can ask Otis or the Storekeeper for one. Otis will then tell you those lines about rats and carrot cake. If you use the gopher repellent on the other cell, the rat will run away briefly.

MI2 wasn't about that, though it is wrapped into the narrative of Guybrush being deadset on finding Big Whoop. When Elaine gives him the opportunity to stop the quest and choose their relationship instead, Guybrush rejects that path and continues pursuing the treasure. (This sort of obsession shows up in The Cave as one of its main themes!) Secret is when they fell in love with each other. In Revenge she would have still taken him back, but he decisively chose the treasure quest over her. In Curse, his actions have literally objectified her (Guybrush really is Elaine's only weakness), and he has to make things right by reversing his decision - choosing Elaine over treasure. In Curse, Guybrush quests to undo the damage he has caused Elaine - both symbolically over the years and literally just now with his accidental curse. He transforms her back into a human being, but something something he also transforms himself back into the person she fell in love with.

Oh, it is very small. But when I play this with my kids... now, I'm going to have to NOT do that thing until one of them suggests it. :laugh:

FYI the video released today (and linked in the other thread) decisively spoils a puzzle. Just like those manual pages did in MI1 and MI2, perhaps worse because I'm unsure how early it is. I didn't think they would do that before Monday.

IT SPOILS A PUZZLE

So I just now realized Thimbleweed Park gave us a basis for playable ghosts, thanks to Franklin. A playable LeChuck would be able to turn on elevators, grog machines, roller coasters...

I'm sort of interested in the polls that have a "neutral" or "don't care" option.

Since this is old ground on which I'm historically disagreeing, I'll just add one overlooked line from M1 and follow it by agreeing with one of your points. The line: In MI1, the Voodoo Lady sends Guybrush with, "Now go and find the one that loves you." Elaine's line in Curse is arguably an echo of what Voodoo Lady already foresaw in the first game. It's possible Gilbert didn't write that line... or the scenes at Mêlée docks and Booty mansion. The agreement: Relationship complications can be a very enjoyable element in stories, including MI. Hopefully when Ron says they kept "some elements", they turn out to be the very best elements!

Friday evening around 4:30 or so, my kids will be home and ready for the weekend.