BongoBob Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I think so. If you think about it, it makes no sense. I mean, it's saying the US is the only nation that god cares about. What about all the other nations? So, god cares about America, but Canda, England, they can all go to hell. That makes a whole lot of sense:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellfire Jedi Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 You've got my vote, for sure. My religion isn't based on god...err..from what I know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 You'll find a better discussion in The Senate. *moved to Senate Forums* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joetheeskimo Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 But it's saying "One nation under God", not "The Nation under God". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by joetheeskimo5 But it's saying "One nation under God", not "The Nation under God". Exactly, and I think everyone who made a big deal about it needs to get a life. if you are botehred so much, just don't say the Anthem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by ZBomber Exactly, and I think everyone who made a big deal about it needs to get a life. if you are botehred so much, just don't say the Anthem. Because some people get overly offended by a refusal to say the pledge. Before I graduated I had teachers threaten to send me out and have me permanantly removed from their class unless I stood and followed the pledge. I vote that it should be removed for the simple fact that Religion shouldn't be mixed with Government in any form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wassup Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 By saying the pledge, it doesn't mean that you actually believe in what it is trying to convey, because that decision occurs in your own heart and soul. Its the people that are WASTING taxpayer's dollars with petty and stupid lawsuits like these that need to brought to their senses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoguePhotonic Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I say it should be because come on there is such a mix of people it basically says religion owns this country...**** that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legameboy Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Our founding fathers founded this nation under God. It makes sense to put "One nation, under God..." into the pledge in respect to what they did and decided. Saying that it should be removed from the pledge, is like saying that we should remove the eye from the pyramid on a dollar bill because it refers to God. Some people need to learn to "tolerate" there own country's original pledge. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by legameboy Our founding fathers founded this nation under God. It makes sense to put "One nation, under God..." into the pledge in respect to what they did and decided. Saying that it should be removed from the pledge, is like saying that we should remove the eye from the pyramid on a dollar bill because it refers to God. Some people need to learn to "tolerate" there own country's original pledge. Please. But people can't even tolerate the original Constitution concieved by those God fearing forfathers. Why should we have to tolerate this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 It should not be removed because if it is, then the government will be favoring athiests. I think ,if anything, students should not be forced to say it. But the words should not be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by wassup By saying the pledge, it doesn't mean that you actually believe in what it is trying to convey, because that decision occurs in your own heart and soul. Its the people that are WASTING taxpayer's dollars with petty and stupid lawsuits like these that need to brought to their senses. If you don't believe in the pledge than it is meaningless from the start. I don't think it is waist of taxpayer Dollars to keep a kid from being put out of class for not saying something that they don't believe in. That is discrimination isn't it and making the pledge a religious prayer is discrimination. Here is some history of the Pledge of Allegiance.. http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm "In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer." It was added during the cold war and the rampant Communist witch hunts. We thought we were more holy than the Communists.. Yes it should be removed.. Separation of church and state is our right under the constitution. It is my right to go to government place and not see anything pertaining to religion of any kind to do so is biased to any other religion... Originally posted by DiRtY $oUtH™ It should not be removed because if it is, then the government will be favoring athiests. I think ,if anything, students should not be forced to say it. But the words should not be removed. Hmm odd so you are saying the government should favor christians? Isn't the government suppose to favor no religious beliefs? Isn't that what "Separation of church and state" is all about ???????? "Under god" wasn't in the pledge when it was written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I really dont think it should be there. And for the record, many of the founding fathers were not actually Christians, but "deists," not so much a religion as a belief system. I'm not clear on the specifics... But is it that big a deal? Doesnt seem worth making a fuss over. Whenever the "Under God" part comes up when I would say the pledge, I just wouldnt say "under God" and continue on with the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Of course the Founding Fathers had nothing to do with the American Pledge of Allegience which wasn't written until 1892. Grabbed from the 'net: In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.' His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ] Source: http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm I've read the same thing elsewhere, so I don't think the site is making it up, but feel free to verify yourself. Yes, many of the Founding Fathers were religious but not necessarily Christian (Deists aren't Christian). When I was in public school we only said the Pledge mostly in the lower grades. By 5th grade we pretty much didn't anymore. I think the point of the Pledge is to show patriotism, to teach little kids to think of America as a great country. It's at sporting events to show comraderie among Americans (despite the fact that we're fans of different teams, etc we all are citizens of the same land), etc. I don't think it's necessary to remove the phrase "Under God" but I don't think it will do any harm if it is removed either. It's not as if my faith hinges on whether or not people mention a belief of mine while saluting a flag. The same goes for "In God We Trust" on money. Some other countries (in Europe for example) don't get so uptight about religion in the public sphere as we do sometimes, I am not sure why. I guess the country was founded on the idea that we didn't want a King or a state church telling us what to do, so we have been paranoid ever since... (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 First the ten commandments, now God in the pledge...anyone else notice a trend here? Pretty soon, Bibles will consist of what everyone wants to hear, not what the truth is. How do I know it's the truth? Well, how do you know the sky is blue? Anyway, I haven't been here in a long time because last time I made a post like this, I got the crap flamed out of me (Even though I posted nothing to hurt anyone's feelings). We need officials that can follow what God would have us to do, not what people would have us to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegietto Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 i don't know for sure some of me said yes but alot of me said we shouldn't it could be alot of mess if they did but what happened will happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 It shouldn't be there. By having "under god" in the pledge, it says that you cannot be an American if you are agnotstic, atheist, or of a religion other than christian theism. While this might be fine for some or even many, I don't think that it is what the Founding Fathers intended. Some of whom, BTW, were agnostic or secular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 But is it that big a deal? Doesnt seem worth making a fuss over. Whenever the "Under God" part comes up when I would say the pledge, I just wouldnt say "under God" and continue on with the rest. I agree, thats what i was thinking when i saw the thread. Anyone could tell from the start this would happen. The thing is, i believe it will get taken out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by obi-wan13 First the ten commandments, now God in the pledge...anyone else notice a trend here? Pretty soon, Bibles will consist of what everyone wants to hear, not what the truth is. How do I know it's the truth? Well, how do you know the sky is blue? Anyway, I haven't been here in a long time because last time I made a post like this, I got the crap flamed out of me (Even though I posted nothing to hurt anyone's feelings). We need officials that can follow what God would have us to do, not what people would have us to do. A: Yes I do see a trend. Keeping religion out of anything about the government. B: You 'believe' its the truth. You can't 'know' its true. Thats the entire bases of faith. C: People can be aholes. D: Monarchy. The entire reason our nation was formed and you want it back that way. Wow:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BongoBob Posted October 17, 2003 Author Share Posted October 17, 2003 Jeez, I started a wildfire:D Anyhow, I don't say the pledge, and I remember being asked if we consider ourselves American citizens for not saying the pledge after Sept 11. Funny how I was never asked that before then:rolleyes: Also, anyone else realize how stupid it is in the first place. I pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I don't understand the whole American pride thing. Pledging allegience to a flag every morning? For what? Why is it so nesecary to display ones patriotism? And Americans seem to hold the belief that patriotism is an America-only thing, meanwhile I see people litter on the ground, how is that love of one's country? I say do away with the whole pledge thing and let people show thier pride in useful ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legameboy Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 And that cloth plus many others of the same kind represent the country, the United States of America, if you have a problem with that... all I can say is, that's pretty sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by BongoBob Also, anyone else realize how stupid it is in the first place. I pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth! It's not the flag so much as the ideas behind it. "Pledging allegiance to the Flag." Is really to the country you live in and what it's about; as well, as your ancestors, your neighbors, and your loved ones. When the flag is burned or disrespected it's like burning or disrespecting the people of the country and the ideas the country was founded on.. The "Flag" is the personification of symbolism in an object.... There is so much more you are honoring than a "piece of cloth." Do you still think it is stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by Kain A: Yes I do see a trend. Keeping religion out of anything about the government. B: You 'believe' its the truth. You can't 'know' its true. Thats the entire bases of faith. C: People can be aholes. D: Monarchy. The entire reason our nation was formed and you want it back that way. Wow:rolleyes: A. Correct, and I don't see how this country could do away with the main reason of it's success. B. See there, I do know it's the truth. I've had so many experiances that I can't even post because the list is so long. If I said God did not exhist, I'd be the biggest jackass alive. He's done too much for me personally to say something like that. C. Yes, people can be. Why so many other people cannot see this, I don't know. You, my friend, are informed. D. I never said I wanted a monarchy. I just said I wanted leaders that would do what the true calling of God would have them do. Be it a president, King, Dictator, whatever. I know there would be trouble trying to decide if that is indeed what God wanted done or not, but we'd have to beat that milestone when we get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloseTheBlastDo Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Correct, and I don't see how this country could do away with the main reason of it's success. Are you trying to say that God blesses America in a greater degree to other countries...?! ...because he loves America more? ...because America deserves it more? ...because other countries deserve it less? And all because of two words in a declaration? My my - your god is rather picky isn't he... Oh but yes, he's omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient - so that makes anything he does moral. Sorry - your right - it's perfectly OK. By all means - keep it in. After all, I live in England (you know, one of of those countries God doesn't like as much as America... ), so it doesn't bother me. ...I mean, you wouldn't want to take 'under God' out of the pledge and suddenly have, say, sky-high Gun crime in inner-city 'warzones' and millions of millions of people without proper health coverage because God stopped 'blessing' you... ...oh wait ... hang on a sec... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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