ohhh yesss, the game is sooo unbalanced. [sarcasm]

[Elijah]

Originally posted by Kurgan

I've been studying these forums carefully and after my exhaustive and in-depth research I've come to the unbiased conclusion that:

 

A game is unbalanced if:

 

1) I win every time. (I can exploit the game so it's too easy)

 

Or

 

2) I don't win every time. (Other people can exploit the game so it's too hard)

 

There you have it folks, nothing but the facts. Read them and weep!

 

That, and, a topic like this gives one a reason to say "I'm better then you, so HA! QUIT WHINNING NEWBIXOR!"

 

A statement like "I'm kinda passed that I killed Staff and Duel Saber users to easy with single saber" Is a slightly cocky statement

[Elijah]

I dont have time to address everything but here it goes:

 

Originally posted by Jawa8578

As much as I hate FK's arrogance and smarm (no offence) they were infact one of the best JK2 clans. When they combined with shock clan, as much as I dont like to admit it, they were the best JK2 clan...

Rofl, excuse my jackassage, but FK was never the best JK2 clan... not by a long shot.

 

Now tell me any good JK2 clan that plays JA.

HFD,KOM,ALT,Freedom,OEM,OE,aero Phalanx.

And most of those clans are made up of members from the old clans of JK2 (HFD=DSbr)(KoM=Some of MoD) And So on... the game isnt dead, and the clans havnt given up on it yet.

 

Fallen Knights (I became part of this clan after a merger) along with [div3rse] (a separate clan, we competed against them) and =X= were the most dominate clans in competitive Jedi Outcast team based gaming.

 

Feel free to name clans who were more dominant than those.

Are you talking about sabers only? I sure hope you are, because I can name about 10 clans for every 1 you did that could dominate FK in a CTF match.

 

Players like myself could go onto non-competitive clan servers (as in any and all servers full of people other than those we competed against) and just beat the living unholy hell out of people.

I played FK many times, and I never saw any of the beat the living hell out of anything, even out of newbie clans.

[Astrotoy7]

Originally posted by Kurgan

There's always somebody willing to give in and say "well okay I agree that we're all a bunch of n00bs with no skills, but the game is fun!"

 

"well okay I agree that we're all a bunch of n00bs with no skills, but the game is fun!"

 

FUN being the operative word

 

and, for those 'elite' (hmph) players out there, dont worry I wont be messin up your little world were *you are the master* by wasting both our time playin against y'all, "so you cant own me massa"

 

BTW, *Excellent* posts by PRIME and KURGAN(for all his scariness ) , contemplated responses, logical and reasonable.

Thank goodness you are on here. I'd hate to imagine how things would denegenerate if posters/mods/admins like urselves, Stormie and Andy etc werent around... BRAVO !

 

MTFBWYA

 

*drops his saber, picks up his pistols, and goes off to play Max Payne 2*

[KaiaSowapit]

Originally posted by Rumor

i had double sabers with maxed out saber defense and offense

It's my understanding the varying levels of saber offense only enable the yellow and red stances for single saber users, nothing more. To the best of my knowledge, staff & dual saber users gain nothing by increasing beyond level 1. (And yes, I don't think that's very fair to single saber users.)

 

Additionally, saber defense appears to only have an effect on blaster deflection - higher levels increase the likeliness of deflecting blaster fire. It doesn't seem to have a significant impact (if any) on saber-to-saber blocking.

 

BTW, another observation (not directed specifically at Rumor). I've noticed many people on these forums commonly throw around expressions like "netcode" and "Ghoul 2" with implied authority and intimate familiarity (usually with a healthy dose of disdain and criticism as well).

 

How fortunate we have so many experienced coders among us.

[Prime]

Originally posted by eniaC

In no way do I mean to offend, these are just my opinions.Prime,

Unnamed has provided alot of input on facts regarding alot of these issues from the competitive comm, don't really think I've ever seen him troll or flame.

I agree. When I was asking why he was/is here, it wasn't with sarcasm. He is unhappy with JA, and I was genuinely wondering why he and his "group" (as someone who is a competative player) still plays and/or posts about the game, and he has answered that. I don't think he is trolling, and as you say he has on many occasions provided great input and views on the game. I did not mean to imply otherwise. Sorry if you took it that way Unnamed

 

Originally posted by atx250

Yea i can see how you came to that conclusion, but i DO acctually enjoy playing, I have been spoiled by JO, That is proberly why i post here instead of just getting on with it.

 

I have played a fair few online games, but none grabbed me or excited me as much as swinging a saber around. and for that i will always be greatfull to lucasarts and raven, tho i may not always show it.

That's cool

 

Originally posted by Rumor

things i hate about JA (no real order):

...

5. vehicle controls

I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard that the vehicle controls with the patch are much better. Have you tried this yourself?

 

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

And Prime, like Jawa said, a lot of us have invested a lot of time and money in servers, sites, people etc.

 

We have gone out and befriended and recruited people to play this game competitively and we are basically at a point now where it is a waiting game.

 

We really don't post here much, I myself only pop in now and then (RTCW: ET has me addicted) to check and see if the SDK came out.

I see. And I can understand the collective "you" wanting to get your money's worth. I also understand where some of your frustrations are coming from. I do want there to be a thriving competative community in JA. I'd be just as happy with JA if it indeed had a steaper learning curve. I'll have fun with the game regardless.

 

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

This may sound weird, but one of the bad things about Outcast that I did not like was it's incredibly high learning curve.

 

There really was no "middle ground" for the average/casual players.

 

You either played it non-stop/became "elite" or you got murdered by those who did. This caused a hell of a lot of frustration and the more vocal the average players became, the more things got nerfed all to hell.

From what I remember, one of the things that aggrevated this problem was that many fanboy gamers did not want to do the most effective moves at all because they were not "Star Wars". They refused to use pullthrow, gripkick, and things like that because they were not in the movies, and instead just insulted those who did use them. Then the gap between the competative players and these "average" players was that much wider. Not only did you have one side who was more skilled overall, but the weaker side made this difference worse by not learning to use/counter the above moves.

 

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

1.02 despite it's flaws and bugs had a "middle ground" or a "great equalizer" in the form of high damage sabers and devastating moves and powers.

 

Sure a competitive player would mop the floor with a newbie most of the time, but that newbie had a much better chance of getting in a "lucky shot" and winning a match in 1.02 than he did in 1.04.

Ah 1.02. I would have been so much happier had Raven simply fixed the bug issues (DFA collision detection and that sort of thing), and not altered gameplay. I agree that causal gamers were responsible for what resulted.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by KaiaSowapit

It's my understanding the varying levels of saber offense only enable the yellow and red stances for single saber users, nothing more. To the best of my knowledge, staff & dual saber users gain nothing by increasing beyond level 1. (And yes, I don't think that's very fair to single saber users.)

 

Additionally, saber defense appears to only have an effect on blaster deflection - higher levels increase the likeliness of deflecting blaster fire. It doesn't seem to have a significant impact (if any) on saber-to-saber blocking.

 

BTW, another observation (not directed specifically at Rumor). I've noticed many people on these forums commonly throw around expressions like "netcode" and "Ghoul 2" with implied authority and intimate familiarity (usually with a healthy dose of disdain and criticism as well).

 

How fortunate we have so many experienced coders among us.

 

i was making a point dude. if a single god ****ing damn tap from a DOUBLE SABER touches your FOOT when you are moving and it kills you when you HAD FULL HEALTH, then something is wrong.

 

and as for the **** you said about netcode and g2, when i see something wrong, i don't have to be an expert to point it out. if i see your ciding on your house is put on upside down, i don't need a ****ing phd in installing the **** to know somethings wrong.

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by ZDawg

I dont have time to address everything but here it goes:

 

Rofl, excuse my jackassage, but FK was never the best JK2 clan... not by a long shot.

 

HFD,KOM,ALT,Freedom,OEM,OE,aero Phalanx.

And most of those clans are made up of members from the old clans of JK2 (HFD=DSbr)(KoM=Some of MoD) And So on... the game isnt dead, and the clans havnt given up on it yet.

 

Are you talking about sabers only? I sure hope you are, because I can name about 10 clans for every 1 you did that could dominate FK in a CTF match.

 

I played FK many times, and I never saw any of the beat the living hell out of anything, even out of newbie clans.

 

Yes I am talking sabers only, duh...

 

Short attention span there zdawg or just oblivious to the world around you? (hint! look at my sig! duel and SABER ONLY CTF should have given it away...)

 

FK (the original one founded by Fallen) was strictly competitive FF/SO CTF with a little TWL TeamFFA (#1 for a very long time I might add).

 

There towards the end Fallen had an idea about bringing the most dominate 1v1 FF/SO players in the game on board for total domination of any and all game types involving FF/SO so he and I struck an agreement.

 

 

Now you say why would he contact me?

 

Well for the same reason speciaL and myself are listed on team image's (since you seem to know so much, I’m sure I don’t have to tell you who matt or image is) members page as being "former members" (why matt did that is beyond me, we never actually said yes) and it was the same reason why when we turned matt down (prior to the JA launch he wanted to do a saber division for team image, sort of like an “all star team” covering all aspects of the game) he went and got Break_dF to do it (the division never took off though due to the lack of interest in this game type on a competitive level).

 

Now what was that reason you ask?

 

All of us were former Sanguis Frater or current shock ~ members.

I.E. the most dominate 1v1 FF/SO players Jedi Outcast ever saw.

 

Team shock ~ were all (except for speciaL) former Sanguis Frater members.

 

Myself (two separate #1 undefeated runs on twl and one on OGL)

Crow (one #1 run on TWL)

impunity (one of the longest undefeated #1 runs in the TWL 1v1 ladder history)

Swift (another #1 run)

Screed (yet another #1 run)

SpeciaL (never got on twl, he was too lazy)

 

The only matches ever lost by any of those names listed above were to… you guessed it, former or current Sanguis Frater members like Break_dF or ReBorN (aka aero phalanx Havok).

 

TWL’s 1v1 FF/SO Jedi Outcast ladder was the most active and longest lasting ladder out of all the ladders TWL offered for Jedi Outcast, but I’m sure you knew that.

 

And from day one of 1.04, the #1 spot was held at all times by current of former members of Sanguis Frater.

 

Break_dF

Pantar[Cult]

CommunistBastard

 

I could sit here and drop names all night, but it won’t do any good because you obviously decided to open your mouth before even knowing what you were talking about.

 

But don’t take my word for it, ask matt or ask Swede (aP.vertex) or any of the guys in aP who knew what was going in outside of the jk2 gunning world who the best was in FF/SO Sabers.

 

You going to hear the same names over and over I’m afraid.

 

Now if you still doubt my claims I would be more than happy to provide you a personal demonstration of just how damn good people who used to wear the SF tag were (and still are).

 

Tell you what lets do this:

 

You seem to think so little of FK lets do a match.

Go find 8 of the best saber only players you can find.

 

I’ll bring 4.

 

We will neg you off the map.

 

Doubt that?

 

Ask anyone in aP (who in case you did not know, used to be sd.) if we are capable of doing that.

 

Or better yet, ask them to show you demos or screen shots from any matches they played against team shock ~ (who is part of FK now).

 

Care to take me up on that offer?

 

Now either get your facts straight before you start bashing clans or go back to the sidelines with the rest of the no-names and continue hoping that one day you can drop some player’s names in a conversation and maybe get a few people to think you were one of the elite as well.

 

Second rate players and name droppers, gotta love them.

 

 

 

 

[-(- -)-Pyro]

ya im in aP --> pyro

 

dont listen to unnamed hes just a lamer and 0 honr n00b

 

lololol pull-throw and grip-kick exploits and stuff (u know what i mean fellow honrful friends)

 

fk stands for Fucking Kickwhore

 

k thx bye

 

oh yea, i lost to imp twice but that was only b/c paris hilton was tugging my nuts on the side BUNG

[-(- -)-Pyro]

Originally posted by ZDawg

I dont have time to address everything but here it goes:

 

Rofl, excuse my jackassage, but FK was never the best JK2 clan... not by a long shot.

 

HFD,KOM,ALT,Freedom,OEM,OE,aero Phalanx.

And most of those clans are made up of members from the old clans of JK2 (HFD=DSbr)(KoM=Some of MoD) And So on... the game isnt dead, and the clans havnt given up on it yet.

 

Are you talking about sabers only? I sure hope you are, because I can name about 10 clans for every 1 you did that could dominate FK in a CTF match.

 

I played FK many times, and I never saw any of the beat the living hell out of anything, even out of newbie clans.

 

unnamed is talking about sabers dewd wtf are u again?

[FK | unnamed]

lol

hi pyro.

 

 

bye pyro.

 

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by GreenSmoke

unnamed is talking about sabers dewd wtf are u again?

 

Obviously some scrub who never made a name for himself but likes to run his mouth.

 

What did they call them?

 

Dsbr <I forget> licks?

 

I'm getting senile.

 

 

 

[SuperSon!c]

First of all, Swede isnt vertex(vertex is my friend irl and a member of aP). I am swede aka remnant now. Anyway, i agree with most of what unnamed said. The only reason my clan aeroPhalanx plays on the sabers ladder on twl is because we play guns also. We have played a total of 7 times and are #1 pathetic. Seriously our strategy is so simple its redicuouls the game is not even fun but its so easy to be #1 why the hell not. I wish Raven would ungay this game so that we would have some competition from clans like FK. Right now all we have is kaoticz. The last 3 matches we have played have either ended in dissconnects of the other team or being kicked form the server. The only real competitive comunity to my knowledge is guns CTF/TDM on TWL.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Umm.. Rumor? Did you try, oh I dunno, LUNGING the butterfliers? If timed correctly virtually every kata and special dies to it with impunity. The dual twirl is even better at butterfliers, but it's kinda random...

 

BUT, I DO agree that butterfly is overpowered. Besides, it's not like they can do it ad infinitum.. You can also saber throw them, I find it works nicely, especially if you get them on saber return.

[-(- -)-Pyro]

uj in all seriousness i gave up this whole debate a long time ago. raven obviosuly doesnt care and from a purely commercial view point they have no reason to. arguing about ja being nub is basically like arguing about sims online being nub. i hate to admit it but it appears that it is time to move on. jk2 was a great game and ja sucks (sabers i mean), but there's nothing to be done. arguing that fk was elite is neither here nor there man. even if you take every single elite jk2 player from break to apock <g>, this still amounts to an insignificant market share that raven has no incentive to cater towards. prime's right. we should find a new game. i, for one, have been dicking around in ja guns and though i absolutely suck at it, in some ways, it's fun to start over as a nub. i know you'll agree with me at that. i might even rpg it up in kotor. even if this sdk or whatever is released, i think it's too late by far to save this game for the "elite" players. everyone has written this game off, consciously like i have, or unconsciously. hell, you and crow have been dicking around it et from what i hear. can you honestly tell me that if a mod came out tomorrow, you, or any appreciable portion of the old players, would play it with any seriousness? as for myself, i think it would be too little too late. anyway, just give it up, making pointless arguments with clueless nubs is liable to give you a heart attack fattie so just chill out and eat some cake =)

[FK|FlashRam]

Prime: Calling us all newbs isn't going to change how you or we feel about the game.

 

Newb.

 

The following is from a post I made on Ravens forums awhile back:

 

 

I played JK2 from its release till a few months ago. It was a great game, filled with the subtlties that appeal to true competitive minded players and with enough filler to keep the people who just want to be in a star wars universe happy. JA seems to ignore the first while going all out for the latter. The only gamemode that seems slightly interesting to me is full weapon, full force CTF. FFA and dueling strikes me as totally mindless (particularly full force) as there are no elaborate moves as there were in JK2. People who enjoyed carefully refining and mastering their skills in JK2 with moves like Grip Kicking, Pull-throw-kicking, and the like could not possibly be interested in this new full force style of combat which basically amounts to a saber flailing contest. It's this simple....in JA if the person does not want to be hit, they won't be hit. Period. This simply won't do. In JK2, no amount of running, jumping, dodging, ect could protect against a master pull kicker.

 

I went into a game of Saber Only CTF yesterday...it was so laughable. Just to prove a point, I got the flag and held it against 8 guys without once even getting 1 point of damage done to me. Just by turning on speed and absorb and strafe jumping around the room. At one point I said "This is ridiculous. It's impossible to kill someone" The comments? "Yeah...true.." and "you're right, this is stupid". I could do the same thing in a full force duel. Just run around dodging until I healed myself over and over.

 

It's simple, Raven: You overnerfed the game. Period. Every gametype except for the aforementioned Full Weapon/Full Force CTF, NF Dueling, and Siege are totally unplayable. I also found NF dueling to be rather boring. Fortunately Full Weapon CTF can be a blast on Streets, however the other maps strike me as quite boring. I would like a solid reason on why the following moves were taken out:

 

1) Kicking - are you even aware of the depth and skill that some people developed with this move in JK2?

 

2) Force Combos such as Grip Kick, pull-throw-kick, ect

[Akshara]

You either played it non-stop/became "elite" or you got murdered by those who did. <snip> ...that's a little messed up and it's going to drive a lot of people who do not have the time or desire to really spend a lot of time learning the more complex parts of the game, right out the door

This was my experience with JO. I bought the game the week it was released, and practiced a whole lot. Got to the point where I could beat just about any bot at master level consistently. Then I went online... it was a lot of fun at first and I did get pretty good, adjusting to the differences - not elite by far, but respectable enough to hold my own; yet eventually it became such an unenjoyable experience to go online in JO that I simply decided to focus my time elsewhere. There was absolutely no way I could put in the time to keep up with the elite players; and the majority of the public players were determined to turn all servers into backwards running kickboxing events with glowsticks. And part of why the average players began relying on exploits so heavily was because if you didn't use them you didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

 

I'm all for the more elite aspects being added back as selectable options in the game; yet not at the expense of the fun and approachable nature JA has brought back to the online experience for the average to better-than-average everyday player. The big issue, FK | Unamed, is that many of your compatriots are fairly harsh in their vocal disdain for players like me. If the meanness was left out of the discussion, this forum would be a much more enjoyable place to be. As it stands now, I'm getting pretty close to deleting my bookmark and moving on. There's just too much harsh negativity around here, which is really too bad.

[eniaC]

Originally posted by Akshara

. There's just too much harsh negativity around here, which is really too bad.

 

yeah, its a shame, I got that s*** from the beginning on this forum.

 

on a lighter note:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=117969

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by GreenSmoke

you and crow have been dicking around it et from what i hear. can you honestly tell me that if a mod came out tomorrow, you, or any appreciable portion of the old players, would play it with any seriousness?

 

yes, hence the fact that all of the old school clans boards and irc channels are still very active, despite the fact that as a clan no one is playing anything.

 

 

Originally posted by SuperSon!c

First of all, Swede isnt vertex(vertex is my friend irl and a member of aP). I am swede aka remnant now. Anyway, i agree with most of what unnamed said. The only reason my clan aeroPhalanx plays on the sabers ladder on twl is because we play guns also. We have played a total of 7 times and are #1 pathetic. Seriously our strategy is so simple its redicuouls the game is not even fun but its so easy to be #1 why the hell not.

 

Sorry for the confusion and by no means was I trying to slight you guys.

I just wanted home boy to understand how far off the mark he was on his assessment of who the big dogs were in that yard, not to mention his stupid “could not beat newbie clans” remark.

 

You guys (aP/sd) gave us some fierce competition in Jedi Outcast and like they say, “you’re only as good as your competition” and we would not be as sharp as we were if we had not played mean s.o.b’s like your team, all the time.

 

Also you guys have earned the right to claim #1 in Academy.

Is the strategy simple?

Sure but it’s strategy and after watching you guys beat the hell out of [siN] in that match it’s obvious that no matter how newbie the game gets, the veterans with the basic fundamental strategy and knowledge of force combat (learned in Outcast) are always going to dominate.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Akshara

This was my experience with JO. I bought the game the week it was released, and practiced a whole lot. Got to the point where I could beat just about any bot at master level consistently. Then I went online... it was a lot of fun at first and I did get pretty good, adjusting to the differences - not elite by far, but respectable enough to hold my own; yet eventually it became such an unenjoyable experience to go online in JO that I simply decided to focus my time elsewhere. There was absolutely no way I could put in the time to keep up with the elite players; and the majority of the public players were determined to turn all servers into backwards running kickboxing events with glowsticks. And part of why the average players began relying on exploits so heavily was because if you didn't use them you didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

 

I have nothing but respect for what you just said, thank you for being honest.

 

And yes, I do agree that no player should be frustrated to the point of quitting due to a high learning curve.

 

But I don't see nefing everything and anything in sight to be the solution.

 

Tired of people kicking you?

 

Jack up the sabers and bring back those monster moves like the 1.02 DFA.

 

I know for a fact that if I had to face that threat, I sure as hell would be less apt to kick a person.

 

Hell look at 1.02, it had kicks, was it an issue?

 

Nope, because that saber was instant death in some cases.

 

If one side is unbalanced, pump the other side up.

Don't start ripping things down until nothing is left.

 

And that's the problem with Academy; nadda is left beyond "vanilla game manual moves".

 

is that many of your compatriots are fairly harsh in their vocal disdain for players like me. If the meanness was left out of the discussion, this forum would be a much more enjoyable place to be. As it stands now, I'm getting pretty close to deleting my bookmark and moving on. There's just too much harsh negativity around here, which is really too bad.

 

 

 

 

Well to be honest the flames and trolling is just as heavy on both sides.

 

I don't jump out here and start blasting people but when I see people I have played with for over a year trying to make legitimate points and address legitimate concerns, and all they get is stupid crap like "STFU WHINER" my patience and tongue biting ability is only going to stretch so far.

 

The main reason many of us are losing our tempers with many of you is quite frankly, you are not paying attention to what we are saying.

 

I say "hey competitive FF/SO is pretty much impossible when two veterans compete due to the off balanced defensive/offensive properties of the game mechanics.”

 

But what people see is:

 

"OMG THIS GAME SUCKS I CAN'T OWN ANYONE WITHOUT KICKS PATCH PLEASE!!!"

 

And people unjustly flame away, all due to the fact that they didn't take the time to look at what we are saying and they only see what they want to.

 

I admit we do have people here who like to toss out the "N word" quite a lot, and that is not right.

 

Take prime for example.

 

A lot of our guys don't take the time to read his stuff through.

If he says "hey do this" he usually leads in with "I'm really not that experienced in this but here is a friendly suggestion".

 

I have total respect for that and I wish more people would lay off him because he is just trying to help.

 

But the truth is a lot of people just see "STFU WHINER" so there is blame to be put on both sides like I said.

[StormHammer]

Jawa8578...you can tone down your abrasive flamey comments if you want to stay on these boards for any length of time.

 

Rad Blackrose...one more flame from you, and you will be permanently banned.

 

As for the content of this thread, I've seen a lot of posing, a lot of snobbish elitism, and some butt-ugly comments aimed at the majority of this community. It is, quite frankly, sickening. Considering some of the posters here claim to be 'mature' they have a distinctly funny way of showing it.

 

I have one piece of advice: grow up.

 

Thread closed.