The more disturbing issues of our time: Bouncing Boobs

[BlackDove]

Hey, I make due with what I've got.

 

PG forum. Well, the stuff we write on here most of the time is R rated. Naturally if that's your goal, you make due, but on what criteria do you think that avatar was above PG? I see anime with a lot more revealing, things bouncing all over, being kinda accessible to kids, n'stuff.

[Surfnshannon]

Pictures are worth 1000 words. I haven't read anything R rated that comes right out and says sexually explicit things.

 

If anything there are a lot of innuendos (sp) here but nothing completely and bluntly "explicit"

 

Sure there are lots of anime out there with sexually explicit things in them - that's where you can go to see the anime bouncing boobs. But here - we come to talk Lucas Arts Games and anything else is just a bonus.

[matt--]

The idea of a PG forum is the guideline that those higher than I go by and bid the rest of us to abide by.

 

Generally, we use our own ideas of what is appropriate for kids to view. If a parent looks over their child's shoulder and sees a pair of breasts in motion...well, our goal is to stop that kind of thing from happening, because we care about all of our users, regardless of age.

 

You seemed to imply in your earlier posts that the administration doesn't value the opinion of the members, but in fact, the opposite is true. We act on the knowledge that there are younger members, that there are some sensitive members, but not that there are admittedly sexist members. What it boils down to is that your opinion is skewed no matter how 'objective' you attempt to be.

 

What qualifies an anime movie as PG does not qualify this forum as such. Have a look at the name. Look at the antiquated banner. Is this an anime forum?

[BlackDove]

Err - read my first post - I made the argument the admins do value people's opinions - it was just in referance to leXX - "You have something to say, we don't care" policy.

 

In any case, I am fully able to accept the fact that those kinds of avatars are removed so that very young children would be protected (although I can't agree with the notion that kind of an avatar is bad for children), but that's an allright reason.

 

What I am not able to accept, is that anyone who found that avatar to be amusing, very well made, and nice - and I was one of the people who found it all those things, to be labeled as women abusers/insulters and sexists, as your assistant pointed out.

[QuantumDelta]

heh.

I was going to write a long thread, but after losing the page (after quoting 15 posts worth of text) I really can't be bothered to try again.

 

In short;

 

BD originally started off quite civilised.

 

Lexx's first reply was typical feminist defencive reactions. (I will quote if forced too)

 

I'd also liked to add I know exactly what avatar is being talked about since it's been everywhere, and, it's not sexist, heh, it's as Ecchi (perverted) as some anime gets.

 

If it were included in an animated program, providing things didn't progress from it, the program would be rated, a PG.

Yea, PG.

For UNDER TWELVES as well as Over Twelves.

 

Anime is decidedly Ecchi as it is, it was done that way because it was originally branded childish, animes like Akira rebel from that image and always push as far as they can.

 

Degrading to women?

LOL, Watch AppleSeed, or Ghost in the Shell, Women play lead roles, and often are portrayed doing the same jobs as men (including lifting trucks and stuff in some animes or ultraviolence, etc, etc, female directors, etc), anime is less sexist than any other cinematic production media, with the simple exception of fanservice.

 

Onward, my point about the avatar is, I would say LEXXs avatar is more suggestive/sexual than the bouncing anime one.

 

Lexxs second reply commenting on how the chest is not a sexual part of a mans body - lies.

The chest is often refered to as a "sexy" part of a mans body.

Do you seriously want to go down the road where NO FLESH can be shown, and nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with even POTENTIAL sexual reference (because BDs pic does have some sexual reference in it though it is much deeper than you could guess from a simple picture) is allowed?

 

better get rid of your avatar then.

 

So far as the first two replies from the "super mod" go, they strike me as hypocritical and contradicting, which is wonderful since she accuses BD himself of being contradicting later on (though admittedly it does look like he would be).

 

If edlibs comments were to be addressed no nationalist signatures/avatars would be allowed either (check his avatar).

 

SWP is actually right, admins do get their way, obviously.

But, that's about it.

 

As to the need of the thread;

Would it not be constructive to publicly set out lines of how conservative this forum is going to be? or, is it, as it appears to be, simply run as a shambles where personal (biased) moderator oppinions run the ropes without input?

 

I normally do do this much more reasoned and thoroughly but as I said above I can't be bothered due to IE Illegal op

Lexx ~ If you didn't come across as such as (sorry) "soccer mum"(mom?), it probably wouldn't be as much of an issue, but you agrivated the point yourself.

Your very, first, post, was a FLAME.

Very first reply from a "Super Moderator" -- was a FLAME.

 

On the forum where I am currently moderator/admin staff, the thread would have been closed, or edited out here, and the topic reviewed again in a different light in private.

And potentially that moderator losing their position, simply because sexual bias and oversensativity IS NOT Behaviour becoming of a moderator, nor an admin.

 

Just a little FYI for you if you were going to seriously go down the road of male dominated world, Lexx.

 

In england girls get considerably better grades then guys on average at GCSE and A Level, this is because up until the last two years of education, teachers/courses were actually orientated and engineered in a way that put females at a natural advantage over males.

This was an over-correction the government made in an attempt to stop so many girls dropping out and getting pregnant in the previous decades (IIRC this started in 1988... though I couldn't give you a 100% on that one).

You do realise that whilst statistically women do earn less and are in lesser positions because they feel /pressured/ to look after children, or tend the household, etc, this is because of programs they/their friends watch and the way their PARENTS brought them up.

 

~~

It's completely possible for women to attain the same positions as men in this world, completely possible, just that, as most of my female friends (whom several are very successful market/advertising managers or shrinks(my college specialised in these fields)), most women wuss out, or feel that they can't ignore their "internal system" and feel that "their time is running out." -- Stupid things, worries about never having kids.

 

Things men are more likely to ignore.

 

Jeds post I'm not going to address since it didn't actually interject any material -- just more moderator flames on BD.

 

Matt-Windu, you seem to be being reasonable, except the lack of sarcasm detection;

As I said earlier, the image you are discussing, is, quite solidly, PG.

You actually see, nekkid, full blown, animated, and "felt up" nipplage in one of the more famous/well known animes~

Evangelion Neon Genesis.

That episode is rated a 15, if not it's a 12. (I'd have to go get the vid...)

 

Meh.

Not bad for a first post, at least I didn't out right flame, but sorry about my general laziness, it probably makes my posts seem somewhat less valid.

 

¬.¬

(This is the point where 20 people start thinking to themselves ....oh crap....its QD.....)

 

 

edit;

Matt - didn't see that "PG anime not PG here" comment (I was posting during it heh).

 

remind me what rating the LEXX Series had? 15? 18?

I would spend some time noting down avatars that are not PG (I will promise you even if this forum is mainly anime ava's, there will be more non-PG non-Anime ones, than non-PG Anime ones).

 

If the continent wide European TV/Movie Age listings -- people who are qualified, to do so, don't rate something as above PG I don't really see it as this forum rating something above PG I see it as feminist(in this specific case) views forcing over conservative positions.

It was discussed with other moderators, but, heh, I would rather see that discussion done by the moderators in public because instantly a few images pop into my mind as to how that discussion went.

[BlackDove]

Ah, my knight in shining armor.

 

Don't look at me, I just told him to read it, although he makes the point much better than me.

[Mike Windu]

I side with the females on this one. I can see how it would degrade women and make them feel like they are nothing more than sex buddies. Personally however, I feel that you've insulted the majority of the members and that is the reason that Lexx made that comment that has gotten you all... worried I suppose.

 

Bye bye avatar.

[Weiser_Cain]

I give up.

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by Mike Windu

I side with the females on this one. I can see how it would degrade women and make them feel like they are nothing more than sex buddies.

 

Can you guide me through that, obviously extensive, train of thought?

 

How do you get from Bouncing-animated-clothed-woman-with-big-breasts to sex buddies?

[Acrylic]

Originally posted by leXX

Wow, someone really likes that avatar don't they?

 

And so begins "the boobgate scandal".

 

I for one will not have a discuission with someone who is admitidly a sexist, but I will say that if the general opinion of this forum is the same as yours, I won't bother returning.

 

Is it sexist to like breasts? Well, cartoon breasts are childish...but still. Feminists piss me off. Why? Because they always think that they are getting degraded when men are being put down on the same way by women. Hypo-biggot-crytes.

[matt--]

I'll level with all of you, I personally have no problem with the bouncing smilie, but again, that's a guy's perspective. They were just a fad when they originally popped up en mass, and like so many other avatar fads, it would have faded away in good time.

 

The general consensus among my staffers seemed to be that the users felt it was offensive, and as I'm no where near as active as I once was, I took that as an objective assessment. If I was mistaken to assume such a thing, now is the proper time to admit that.

 

Given all the facts, and all the points you've made, I'll appeal to the numbers.

 

Here's what we're going to do...

• I'm going to move this to the JK.net feedback forum
  
• I'm going to let each opposing side start a thread there
  
• Post only once in either of the threads to show support for your side
  
• Only users with over 300 posts will be counted. This is to prevent either side from registering additional users to effectively stuff the ballot.
  
• Do not in anyway spam, trick, or otherwise coerce other users into posting. Label the thread clearly.
  
• The polls close on Friday, March 26th, at 6 PM EST.
  

 

That seems the fairest way to conduct things at this point.

[Mike Windu]

When the purpose of the avatar is only to watch the boobs rock up and down, it can make a woman feel a bit meaningless when you don't pay attention to her but her little buddies.

 

The reason still boobs are accepted is because most of the time they are not the point of the avatar. Look at Lexx's Aayla avatar. Sure, it has boobs. But it does not demean the woman by flagrantly bouncing up and down.

 

EDIT: It may seem sexist, but no, it's not sexist to like boobs. It's just when you pay more attention to boobs than women...

 

EDIT AGAIN: I respect the opinions of the male members who find nothing wrong with the avatar. I knew as soon as I saw it that the avatar would cause trouble. Frankly, sexual objects depicted as the "main attaction" will be and always will be determined as something not to be allowed.

 

A) No one has the authority to discern what is right and wrong for the entire forums. Each forumer has his or her own opinions and while these are respected, it would also be wrong to ignore the avatar because in this particular forum, it is viewed as offensive and can be deemed sexual harrassment. Sexual harrassment is speaking or doing something that makes a person feel sexually uncomfortable. I can assure you some women would find that an uncomfortable situation. Therefore it is the jurisdiction of the moderators/administrators to ban this avatar because it causes a problem.

B) Please do not demean the opinions or posts of others in a way that would make them feel inferior to yourself. This presents the topic in question in an awful manner, since it is based solely on opinion, yet you kill the opinions of others?

C) Lexx and Shann make good points. The purpose of the avatar as I have stated already is the boobs of the girl. If the picture did not focus on the boobs sorely as an entertainment value it would be deemed alright I would suppose.

 

My 2 cents. And no, I'm not here to support Lexx. I think she makes a good point and I can understand why Shann and her would feel that way. (mmmm I'm way too feminine for my own good)

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Acrylic

Is it sexist to like breasts? Well, cartoon breasts are childish...but still. Feminists piss me off. Why? Because they always think that they are getting degraded when men are being put down on the same way by women. Hypo-biggot-crytes.

I think, in a nutshell, that's what this thread was about, Acrylic.

 

Matt - Though as you can tell I am new around here, it should be fairly obvious I'm no one's second account, if only from the totally non-masked IP/etc. Wanted to say that just before I made my point to ya.

 

Although this isn't my thread, BD did spend a while trying to learn more than a few things from me... and, Although it looks like he's campaigning for the "rights to use one particular avatar" on this forum, I very much doubt (though I could be wrong) that this was his actual intention, in all honesty I doubt he cares about the avatar at all, but that his point is somewhere between Acrlyics and my own.

 

Is your forum becoming too conservative in it's moderators views of what is acceptable? ~

With problems like these facing todays youth, I hardly expect a pair of animated as in not real bouncing breasts is going to worsen anything.

Those kids are worse than I currently have ever been, and, I'm 20, they're 1/5 my age.

 

Mike - as I said, that's personal preference, I find lexx's avatar more likely to affend, but then again, I'm a rather seasoned anime fan.

I dispise hentai.

It's interesting to note that BD didn't want me to post in this thread when I was first shown it, mostly because he figured I would "defend the ladies rights" ~ Well, normally I do, and, normally I would, however in this case I would refer you to acrylics post again.

The people that dislike it are either being;

Over protective of stupidly sensative people.

Over conservative.

Or Feminist (baka...).

 

I may post more later.

 

Ja ne ^^

[leXX]

Originally posted by Acrylic

Is it sexist to like breasts?

 

When did I ever say it was sexist to like breasts? Why don't you actually read a thread before you post in it.

 

Originally posted by BlackDove

and even though I am a sexist

 

 

Originally posted by Acrylic

Feminists piss me off.

 

Feminists only piss off sexists. Guess that's thier job eh? Heh.

 

Originally posted by BlackDove

Striking though that she can call me racist and homophobic, which is unfounded, yet I'm the one getting warnings.

 

When did I call you racist and homophobic?

 

...

 

A lot of words are being put into my mouth aren't they?

 

...

 

 

Anyway, I won't bother replying to the rest of it, because quite franky, I would just be repeating myself, and this thread has always been pointless.

 

Go ahead and have your bouncing boobs if you feel so strongly about it, but I will have every right to have my clothed wobbling penis avatar if that's the case (and STTCT will have every right to have her penis avatar), and then we will see how far everyone will take it, and we will see just how pathetic this place can and will become. If you want to spend the rest of your forum life looking at bouncing boobs and woobling penis's, so be it.

 

Yes, I'm being childish, no more so than the avatar's themselves.

 

 

 

Oh, and I'd like to thank Jed for realising that I'm being attacked simply because I'm female. =)

[wassup]

Since nobody has posted it yet, here is the link to the particular picture of this controversy. Keep in mind it may be offensive, but that's the whole point of this discussion anyways. Ultimately, the judgement of whether it is appropriate for this discussion is up to the mods, though the opinion of others should be taken into account.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by leXX

So it would ok for me to use this as an avatar then?...

 

While I didn't particularly care for the avatar of the bouncing breasts, I put up with it, just as I would put up with this one. Also Taboo is the effect that drives sexuality, in some cultures breasts aren't a big deal and are shown without tops. While I have not grown up in those cultures I still have no problem with naked breasts. I still found it to be a bit low in tact. I was able to pull of a chuckle at the bouncy av and even the mr bean groin avatar. Some things I just find unneccesary to fight over, While I repect what you say leXX, it is hard to overcome these stereotypes of being a starwars girl, someone can't also forget hman nature that people are people.

I was glad to see it gone considering this is a family forum.

 

also one cannot argue marijuana as it isn't illegal everywhere. Nor is it considered a major problem everywhere. however the growing line thinning of what is deemed socially acceptable when it comes to sexuality. it's hard to make a judgement. I'm not sexist but I won't let myself fight over flopping breasts or a gyrating penis.

[Ray Jones]

firstly.. I DO RESPECT and ACCEPT and will NOT nor WANT to question the decision that this kind of avatar (or PICTURE, in general) is not appropriate to this forum (hey, and i might even AGREE!), and it might just have looked somewhat silly and offensive, what also may depend to a certain point of view.

 

i think we all agree that basically noone has the right do degrade anyone. men not women, vice versa and withing the same sex too.

 

also RESPECT seems to be the main issue here. it is NOT very respectful to "use" naked/ bouncing or whatever breasts for advertising for beer, for instance. using it in a (senseful) way for an advertising fo sport-bras could be considered another thing.

but i dont see a huge lack of respect in that picture, there is no porn link, there is not "dirty" thing said on it and no "women are NOTHING" written somewhere. heck, it is some (nice?) drawn piece of art, the kind of useless crap art, but still not a reason to put sexist, feminist and respectless comments on the plan.

 

another point: there are persons who like to display themselves or get displayed as "sexual objects" and some not.

there are some who are offended by nearly-naked breasts and some by breasts under a shirt but without a bra, some may even be offended by "printing through" panties or spots in the face. others hate thongs. some like mayo on their sandwich and some not.

ALL and EACH of them have to deal with each other from BOTH sides.

 

now to the children.

i am father of a girl myself and i am "feminist" if you like to call it so. means: i do not agree with MOST of the male members of human society, man i even think my toenails will curl up when i hear what many men are actually really seem to be thinking about women. it's just disgusting sometimes.

and i do my best NOT to teach any of those views to children regardless if boys or girls, although i am sometimes afraid that is not enough. but i rather TALK openly about sexuality and know that my daughter can handle a picture of BOUNCING BREASTS proper than trying to keep her away from stuff like that, so that she probably will get some kind of "misinformation" from whoever. because there is one thing for sure: sexuality will be part of her life and it's her parents damn job to make sure that she will know what's going on. and no, that does not necessarily means she will have sex at the age of 11. it probably means that she will not think that a tampon can be used as a contraceptive, even if there is this guy who assures her it can.

 

however, we are naturally born naked and things that "hang" or are "attached" somewhere have the tendency to move. so why make an "unnaturally" thing of it?

 

it is sooo easy to be personal offended. either by a (childish?) breast-av or by an (overrated?) anti-breast-av action.

and it's easy to break it down to arrogant, respectless and personal speechs about feminism, sexism and being pissed off, without even considering that this kind of polarizing is not helpful in any way but putting up the conflict and that both sides are SUPPRESSING the other sides opinions.

but beside those ALL-SO-TRUE opinions there are FACTS.

 

one of those facts is, that our whole existence is based on sexuality. and no matter who may find it, for what reason ever, offending, women do have breasts, men too, some like it, some not, and there are "p.s" and they generally "belong" into "v.s", no matter what it is called or considered or how it's seen as offensive.

that fact exists FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS now..

 

so perhabs we should start to face it with a healthy sense of intelligence and not behave like spanish inquisitors here.

[edlib]

If edlibs comments were to be addressed no nationalist signatures/avatars would be allowed either (check his avatar).

First: There's a big difference between Nazi symbology and most other nationalistic symbology due to the weight of history it carries around with it and the loaded potental it has to offend a very large group of people around the world due to the hate it carries behind the image.

 

Also: If someone had a legitimate problem with my avatar and expressed thier concerns eloquently enough to convince me that they were sincere, then I would change it in a heartbeat. I'm not in love with it,.. it's only an image, and as such represents only a small fraction of what I like to think is my personality and ideals.

 

For the record: I chose this avatar (as well as my current sig) as a gentle and somewhat ironic jab at the current election-year politics my country is currently going through. It is also a bit of an existental protest to the current climate of government censorship on various media (of which Zappa was great defender against, and in my mind a true patriot)

 

(By the way... before anyone gets the idea of saying that it's ironic for someone who uses a very noted and vocal defender of free-speech as his avatar to defend the actions of censorship at an internet forum, be sure you know what the definition of free-speech in America is, and EXACTLY what it defends and what it doesn't.)

 

In the end it's just a picture, kids. If that's what you really want to see then I can point you to about a half a billion places on the web where you can look at bouncing breasts to your hearts' contentment.

But if someone else, (and even if it's only ONE other person,) who also posts here everyday has a legitimate beef with an image or expression used in your profile that offends them everytime they go by one of your posts, then it shouldn't even be a question about changing it to something else. (Unless you are really only here to get in other people's faces and provoke them. In which case you should simply be banned, since that is NOT what this place is about.)

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by leXX

When did I ever say it was sexist to like breasts? Why don't you actually read a thread before you post in it.

Actually, it's fairly easy to move to this conclusion (on how you think) from your text.

 

 

 

 

Feminists only piss off sexists. Guess that's thier job eh? Heh.

If I need character references to make this comment I will get them, however, I'm extremely anti-Sexist/Racist/Ageist/etc.

 

on the same foot, feminists and other such groups who continue to campaign so militantly are equally ignorant and insecure/weak minded as the people they are campaigning against (we're all human, eh?)

 

When did I call you racist and homophobic?

Not my argument but I'll grant the fact that I didn't see you call him racist or homophobic, however he, like I, most likely rate that in the same box as sexist.

 

BD being sexist is something I repeatedly have mentioned annoys me, and tried to get him to change on it...

But bleh.

Regardless, being more neutral than thou, (heh...HTTS?) I would easily say, it's not a huge leap.

Though, like I said I didn't actually see the words anywhere.

 

 

...

 

A lot of words are being put into my mouth aren't they?

 

...

Well, maybe you should check the words you wrote below a little later on, being childish?

The avatars childish?

Anime is something in which is mainly viewed and enjoyed by young adults, and the split in male/female isn't actually as big as you would think (though it is fairly mainly male... but, tha'ts again down to socialist crap.. uhh... kinda like your socialist crap, but the polar opposite, though, you're just as bad as they are, and it's coming out that way as well, I will point out for the second time, in the same thread, that your behaviour, specifically in the next two passages, is COMPLETELY UNFIT For moderator behaviour).

 

Anyway, I won't bother replying to the rest of it, because quite franky, I would just be repeating myself, and this thread has always been pointless.

Narukoto.

Avoiding my own points?

Since I am just about the only person you haven't addressed..... more or less?

 

Go ahead and have your bouncing boobs if you feel so strongly about it,

I've only been here two days, and I feel strongly about one thing that's exclusively here so far, your attitude.

Again, as the more I disect this passage, it's completely, completely, coutner-moderator.. (I have been offered moderator positions for other forums, as major as MMORPGs, as clan forums, and as LAN Arena company forums, I currently hold three of those positions, and I am fairly well valued on each forum).

 

but I will have every right to have my clothed wobbling penis avatar if that's the case (and STTCT will have every right to have her penis avatar),

Find one which is anime, and we'll talk about it.

Whilst this one is not real it's a different issue, however is someone posted with an avatar of a real girl/lady in a bikini or a cloth, or a kimono doing the same thing I would back your oppinion, and BD knows I'm not kidding with that, there are limits.

As I said above, the material you are discussing as offensive, sexual, and sexist, is obviously NOT rated that way by the people who do the certificates on the films and TV Series you watch, because serise similiar to that, don't have a high enough rating to be considered ban material, it's not all that contraversial, and it's not exploiting any particular person.

 

and then we will see how far everyone will take it, and we will see just how pathetic this place can and will become.

Believe me, I've been on some of the worst and best forums on the web in terms of attitude, behaviour and other attributes you seem to value.

I will link you some in PM if you care to check, I don't wish to post them here out of respect for BD (Whom asked me to keep our relations to those other forums fairly seperate for a few reasons).

 

If you want to spend the rest of your forum life looking at bouncing boobs and woobling penis's, so be it.

An avatar, is an avatar.

I have one specific avatar I use on most forums, I haven't directed this forums profile toward it yet because I would have liked you to have acknowledged that there are people who are arguing against you that don't particularly give a damn about avatar/sigpic unless they're within acceptable boundaries.

My normal sigpic for the forum I frequent the most these days is currently;

http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/scriptquantumdelta/eyez2.jpg

 

With http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/scriptquantumdelta/Naruto.jpg for a sig pic.

 

My last desktop background was;

http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/scriptquantumdelta/Kiddy_grade-01.jpg

 

My current backgrond;

http://www.banime.com/output/shaorin1024x768.jpg

 

Yes, I'm being childish, no more so than the avatar's themselves.

No, you're being childish, the avatars inthemselves are not, since they are inanimate objects, and are incapable of being anything other than avatars themselves.

What they are, is what you make of them.

As you state here, your objective to them seems to me, to be childish, on the grounds of insecurity.

 

Oh, and I'd like to thank Jed for realising that I'm being attacked simply because I'm female. =)

Irony considering my own comments....

It would be easy for me to proceed from this comment that all you are doing here IS pushing your own oppinion on other people and IS flaming BlackDove.

 

Please, maybe some deeper thought would be a good idea before a moderator is going to post their personal oppinions

 

Since nobody has posted it yet, here is the link to the particular picture of this controversy. Keep in mind it may be offensive, but that's the whole point of this discussion anyways. Ultimately, the judgement of whether it is appropriate for this discussion is up to the mods, though the opinion of others should be taken into account

It is, and other oppinions should be taken into account, the moderators, are not here to serve themselves, they are here to serve the members of this forum, and they are here to keep the forum running smoothly, at this point in time I would be suggesting that, at least two, are doing the polar opposite.

 

also one cannot argue marijuana as it isn't illegal everywhere. Nor is it considered a major problem everywhere. however the growing line thinning of what is deemed socially acceptable when it comes to sexuality. it's hard to make a judgement. I'm not sexist but I won't let myself fight over flopping breasts or a gyrating penis.

That's fine if you believe legality makes the difference, then you should be paying attention to the LEGAL rating that most anime containing content such as this avatar.

The only reasonable oppinion I have seen so far against it, has been one of the admins, whom wanted to keep the forums PG.

Meanwhile, others who are arguing it's sexist, and that's why they want it gone.

 

Sexist, heh.

 

Sexism to me is something I don't think lexx has ever seen, abuse of women (physical or mental) or men, simply because of which sex they are, sexuality is something different, sexuality in anime, heh, anime was originally meant to be, everything taboo, if you wanted to see some sexist stuff, I would post that, but considering how ignorant and how low your tollerance level for things seems to be I would consider you likely to throw up ¬.¬

 

So tell me, if a girl (as I have met a few who do) choose to use this avatar, are they sexist?

Heh, being unable to link profiles to these people as most of the forums I've seen these avatars used on have died out (as said before it's a fad, it comes, it goes).

 

Generally speaking, though, someone who finds animes sexist are really about as ignorant as they come.

I asked around, and, even on #animesuki (fansubbers irc chat channel) over on rizon.net -- only one person, in the whole group (80 anime insane users) had ever seen a single sexist remark in anime.

 

Scantily clad "perfect" girls, drawn a lot, but never actually in a sexist light, anime artists often like to tell stories with their anime and their focus is very rarely on sex (though there is a whole catagory that I avoid completely... about sex, from anime).

 

firstly.. I DO RESPECT and ACCEPT and will NOT nor WANT to question the decision that this kind of avatar (or PICTURE, in general) is not appropriate to this forum (hey, and i might even AGREE!), and it might just have looked somewhat silly and offensive, what also may depend to a certain point of view.

That's fair, you state also that it depends on point of view.

one which you later profess is biased.

I continue to say I am neutral, and that feminists and sexists alike, annoy me, especially when they are militant, as seen in this thread.

 

However your post seems to be fairly well written out, and worth replying to.

(EG; not a flame on another person)

So I'll continue

i think we all agree that basically noone has the right do degrade anyone. men not women, vice versa and withing the same sex too.

I agree with that, however degrading people who are degrading people, makes both, wrong.

 

Though, in a way, I am again no better since I dispise both groups, but maybe I thought things through a little more because at least I understand the reasoning behind both groups and understand why hate is a relevent word.

 

also RESPECT seems to be the main issue here. it is NOT very respectful to "use" naked/ bouncing or whatever breasts for advertising for beer, for instance. using it in a (senseful) way for an advertising fo sport-bras could be considered another thing.

but i dont see a huge lack of respect in that picture, there is no porn link, there is not "dirty" thing said on it and no "women are NOTHING" written somewhere. heck, it is some (nice?) drawn piece of art, the kind of useless crap art, but still not a reason to put sexist, feminist and respectless comments on the plan.

 

There isn't a huge lack of respect in that picture, I could find where it first came from with some effort but I would suspect you will find it's a fan of the character who is in a specific anime, she's a bouncy person with that kinda fluffy attitude towards life that you see in some animes.

It is a nice piece of anime (though it's not particularly highly detailed or high budget drawing (if it were I would be closer to rating it as anime, but since it's not, it's not meant to be drawn as a sexy anime babe, it's drawn as a fun one.

Which is how that character is portrayed (Rae = Fun gal).

 

another point: there are persons who like to display themselves or get displayed as "sexual objects" and some not.

there are some who are offended by nearly-naked breasts and some by breasts under a shirt but without a bra, some may even be offended by "printing through" panties or spots in the face. others hate thongs. some like mayo on their sandwich and some not.

ALL and EACH of them have to deal with each other from BOTH sides.

Erm.. printing through? (dunno what you mean...)

However you're right those people who have differing oppinions should be able to deal with eachother.

Can you see that in the super mods posts?

I can't.

 

now to the children.

i am father of a girl myself and i am "feminist" if you like to call it so. means: i do not agree with MOST of the male members of human society, man i even think my toenails will curl up when i hear what many men are actually really seem to be thinking about women. it's just disgusting sometimes.

Quite.

 

When I either idle in Yahoo chat (Teen Advice Line) on occasion (before the room drives me insane), I see plenty of "Why are guys all jerks?" or "why are women all sluts?"

etc, etc, stupid, gender wide generalisations that make people look ignorant, normally because they are, infact just that.

 

You are quite right, it is disgusting when people are like that, and it is appauling that people can transmit this behaviour.

 

However... what most people don't seem to realise is... both sexes are as bad as eachother, and, therefore, this behaviour goes both ways.

I see plenty of sex obssessed sluts every day walking around outside the building I work (.... I work in a damned government building and it's in a Red Light District ¬.¬)

 

and i do my best NOT to teach any of those views to children regardless if boys or girls, although i am sometimes afraid that is not enough. but i rather TALK openly about sexuality and know that my daughter can handle a picture of BOUNCING BREASTS proper than trying to keep her away from stuff like that, so that she probably will get some kind of "misinformation" from whoever.

Actually that's one of the best kind of parenting possible, if you don't deny your daughter of information she will be more prepaired, and, therefore stronger, and more capable of dealing with life when it throws things at her.

Due to the behaviour of Lexx, I would be interested on seeing how her children would develop mentally in comparison.

Though, that said, Lexx doesn't seem all that stupid, nor incapable, so the slight and probably normally indetectable difference in parenting would be a nice thing to note.

 

Again, I might be wrong, I don't know how she parents her children, however consider she is coming over as a fairly strong feminist, I wonder if she is inflicting those prejudices (Because they ARE Prejudices) on her children (I can tell that from her post she wouldn't do this conciously, I'm trying to make that point/musing as non-offencively as possible, but most of the ways you influence your children, are not conciously).

 

because there is one thing for sure: sexuality will be part of her life and it's her parents damn job to make sure that she will know what's going on. and no, that does not necessarily means she will have sex at the age of 11. it probably means that she will not think that a tampon can be used as a contraceptive, even if there is this guy who assures her it can.

There's the confirmation.

In my oppinion, you are one of the best parents I have met on the internet, simply from one post.

Heh...

 

 

however, we are naturally born naked and things that "hang" or are "attached" somewhere have the tendency to move. so why make an "unnaturally" thing of it?

No clue.

Sexuality is not something I have a problem with.

(...*stares at BD waiting for the comment *...)

it is sooo easy to be personal offended. either by a (childish?) breast-av or by an (overrated?) anti-breast-av action.

and it's easy to break it down to arrogant, respectless and personal speechs about feminism, sexism and being pissed off, without even considering that this kind of polarizing is not helpful in any way but putting up the conflict and that both sides are SUPPRESSING the other sides opinions.

but beside those ALL-SO-TRUE opinions there are FACTS.

 

You saved me writing this in a later post.

I draw people out in my debates, and finalise with comments like these, because often, when I'm debating, and other people are arguing, it's made most obvious when you finalise with this sort of thing, and they are left arguing the same point.

 

People who do not care to debate, never change their oppinions.

 

And, you're right, all sides of this needs to be seen to.

The Admin seems to be in the best position to do this, and since he said he has been less active recently, I would suspect it was the lack of this neutral and calculating precence that brought this situation into being.

It's not his fault, far from it, things would probably be far worse if he, and the other staff (I Presume they're not all the type to be polarised) that do the kind of social role he fills were present.

 

one of those facts is, that our whole existence is based on sexuality. and no matter who may find it, for what reason ever, offending, women do have breasts, men too, some like it, some not, and there are "p.s" and they generally "belong" into "v.s", no matter what it is called or considered or how it's seen as offensive.

that fact exists FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS now..

 

so perhabs we should start to face it with a healthy sense of intelligence and not behave like spanish inquisitors here.

 

Quite.

It's rare I'm impressed by a poster I don't know...

I doubt that means much to you, but if you considered my position in a few other communities you'd probably be quite flattered

In the mean time...some nub called ya a great quality poster.

If only the other people here were more like you..heh.

 

 

edit;

 

Originally posted by edlib

First: There's a big difference between Nazi symbology and most other nationalistic symbology due to the weight of history it carries around with it and the loaded potental it has to offend a very large group of people around the world due to the hate it carries behind the image.

That's not entirely true, since the only thing that stops any nation, or government from becoming what the Nazi's tried to do, is the fact that most of them are aware they couldn't pull it off.

 

Though you are very correct it's not AS BAD.

However I personally dislike patriotism and nationalism because I know fully well most countries are pretty much the same (and I'm english ffs... think about stereotypical english peoples when you see that comment..)

 

 

Also: If someone had a legitimate problem with my avatar and expressed thier concerns eloquently enough to convince me that they were sincere, then I would change it in a heartbeat. I'm not in love with it,.. it's only an image, and as such represents only a small fraction of what I like to think is my personality and ideals.

I don't.

I would not bring it to a point where I would say I can't tollerate seeing it, and, even if I did, I'm not here enough to complain about it.

 

As it stands anyway, the avatar isn't saying something like "America owns you." ~ so there's nothing wrong with it in the slightest, tbh.

It was just a comment on the irony of your own comment and how it just didn't seem right at the time... (though it was 2-3am and I was in a rush ..heh).

 

For the record: I chose this avatar (as well as my current sig) as a gentle and somewhat ironic jab at the current election-year politics my country is currently going through. It is also a bit of an existental protest to the current climate of government censorship on various media (of which Zappa was great defender against, and in my mind a true patriot)

Hense why I dislike it (I don't find it offencive, however).

 

I would never ask you to remove it, though, since it's far from unreasonable.

 

(By the way... before anyone gets the idea of saying that it's ironic for someone who uses a very noted and vocal defender of free-speech as his avatar to defend the actions of censorship at an internet forum, be sure you know what the definition of free-speech in America is, and EXACTLY what it defends and what it doesn't.)

Quite.

There is irony in it, but only something to muse at, it was why I pointed it out but didn't make a huge long fuss about it.

As for defending censorship ~ heh, what's being censored?

What I see is closer to oppression.

Which is why I object.

As I said before, I am a moderator, and an admin in places, I know what censorship is, and I have seen an admin description of how he would like the content of the forum to rate, so this, is clearly, not censorship, but oppression.

 

In the end it's just a picture, kids. If that's what you really want to see then I can point you to about a half a billion places on the web where you can look at bouncing breasts to your hearts' contentment.

Please don't be patronising.

 

As said, it was just a picture, if you didn't click the link or do not know what the picture is since it's anime it's not even real, it's not exploiting anyone, it's not berating anyone, it's not degrading anyone, and, I suspect it was never even intended in that light.

 

It wouldn't even be rated 12, or 15 if rated for an age cert.

 

Hense I can't quite see your point in terms of looking at the picture as a pornographic one.

Then again, that's because I don't.

But if someone else, (and even if it's only ONE other person,) who also posts here everyday has a legitimate beef with an image or expression used in your profile that offends them everytime they go by one of your posts, then it shouldn't even be a question about changing it to something else. (Unless you are really only here to get in other people's faces and provoke them. In which case you should simply be banned, since that is NOT what this place is about.)

I'm here because I'm a person who tends to enjoy a decent debate, when I first hit reply I expected one, since this forum seems to have pretty decent standards, and Jay upheld those standards.

 

I'ev been to this forum a few times over the past couple of years, everytime I never felt the need to sign up, because, unless something needs saying, I wont.

 

In this case, no one was saying, what I felt should have been said.

Though if Jay had posted earlier in the tone in which he posted just now, I most probably wouldn't be here, right now, unless he was ignored.

 

I have been doing my best to avoid flaming people or saying things which people may find offencive, but at the same time I refuse to be anything less than 100% sincere in what I say.

 

On your note of saying if any specific avatar even affends a single person on this forum it should be removed, I will sustain that point, however, in that, specific case, I would point out the total, and extreme hypocrisy of lexx advancing censorship when posting with what I would deem a sexually orientated avatar, that is, a lot of cleavage that doesn't need to be there, with the loss of a few pixels, it would not be in the image, but she has chosen to leave it as it is.

 

and, along with the other points I have made (unmoderator like behaviour), it is this hypocrisy which would make me feel so strongly as to abject to the presence of that avatar.

When a precident is set, it is kept.

 

Another fairly decent post, and actually on this case I'm suprised I didn't expect you to be quite that deep even if Zappa was a deep guy...

[El Sitherino]

the avatar was reported offensive by many members. I think they served the members well.

 

also I've seen sick things in my life I doubt anything you show me could make me throw up. I've seen plenty of anime and pretty much every commercialized hentai.

I watch porn but I dont' come in here spouting it daily. I leave that in #echonet

I'm a very tolerant person. Notice how I pointed out I was able to accept the avatar even the gyratin penis one. I found them rather funny, juvenile but funny. I didnt' over react but I did think it was a bit tactless but then again so are the jay and silent bob movies but I enjoy watching those, because they are so over the top.

 

I also am a smoker and a drinker. I have seen bad things in my life. Yes it's deplorable people allow kids to get ahold of things such as crack and cocaine.

 

While I GREATLY disagree with Blackdove and you on certain points, I have to say I respect your ability to stand up for your opinions, no matter how much I find them disturbing,atleast Blackdoves that is.

 

 

also to point. I had a job with my local internet company which is making a family filter to use with kids, I had to test what all you could access through it, I had to go through child porn, beastiality, snuff films, other various forms of '"erotica". I doubt anything can compare to the nightmares those have given me. I have since left that job though, but I can say it has left a lasting effect on me. If we have a war on anything it should be a war on underground porn rings.

[Alegis]

Hello ello

 

sex·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skszm)

n.

Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.

Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sexist adj. & n.

 

 

Whatever men say about woman, it's always sexistic. now you rarely see men calling woman sexists, though in my entire life (not so long yet though) i've seen more generalisation done by woman. sexists are only men, racists are only white ppl..thats just the way it is nowadays

 

It's like the glass ceiling. "i cant get a promotion cause of the glass ceiling" bull****, those who say this are just too used that we hold the door always open for them. I know a lot of men see women as a simple lust object, but this is also vice verca. And on those pics (99% beeing josh hartnet and orlando bloom) you can see the chest so you have to agree this and the face is the point of focus(ation?) JUST like pics of topless women. Therefore i conclude chest=breasts in point of lust object.

 

it's all about taboo though, about 20 years ago when you'd see a naked ass in a movie it would be OUTRAGEOUS. now movies even need naked women just to make it interesting due to lack of good story, or the lack of interest by the audience for em...in about 10 years orso a naked woman (and or even man) walking naked along the beach wouldnt be considered special anymore

 

anyways whats this about again..oh yes the avatar. lexx, i wouldnt mind that underpants snake avatar at all.. its even a bit funny..

[matt--]

Originally posted by leXX

Feminists only piss off sexists. Guess that's thier job eh? Heh.

That's not necessarily true. I've noticed that a lot of feminists in my immediate area are very hypocritical. They are feminists only when it suits then, and they don't hesitate to use their gender to influence males when it makes it easier for them.

 

I guess those people are only posers though.

[leXX]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta

Actually, it's fairly easy to move to this conclusion (on how you think) from your text.

 

I don't see how you come to this conclusion from what I've posted in this thread. I haven't once said it's sexist to like breasts. I like breasts. Believe it not, I'm not the prude you make me out to be, as anyone who has known me long enough or chats with me outside this forum can tell you.

 

 

 

 

 

If I need character references to make this comment I will get them, however, I'm extremely anti-Sexist/Racist/Ageist/etc.

 

Glad to hear it.

 

on the same foot, feminists and other such groups who continue to campaign so militantly are equally ignorant and insecure/weak minded as the people they are campaigning against (we're all human, eh?)

 

I don't agree. I am actually not a feminist, even though you may jump to that conclusion from reading this thread, but I think it is certainly a good thing that other women are standing up for our rights to been seen as equal.

 

 

Not my argument but I'll grant the fact that I didn't see you call him racist or homophobic, however he, like I, most likely rate that in the same box as sexist.

 

I also put a sexist in the same box as a racist or homophobic, hence my mention of both in that post.

 

BD being sexist is something I repeatedly have mentioned annoys me, and tried to get him to change on it...

But bleh.

Regardless, being more neutral than thou, (heh...HTTS?) I would easily say, it's not a huge leap.

Though, like I said I didn't actually see the words anywhere.

 

I'm glad you are trying to get him to change his mind.

 

 

 

Well, maybe you should check the words you wrote below a little later on, being childish?

The avatars childish?

Anime is something in which is mainly viewed and enjoyed by young adults, and the split in male/female isn't actually as big as you would think (though it is fairly mainly male... but, tha'ts again down to socialist crap.. uhh... kinda like your socialist crap, but the polar opposite, though, you're just as bad as they are, and it's coming out that way as well, I will point out for the second time, in the same thread, that your behaviour, specifically in the next two passages, is COMPLETELY UNFIT For moderator behaviour).

 

I am actually a HUGE anime fan. I love anime with a passion. I don't have a problem with how breasts are portrayed in anime at all. But we are not talking about anime, are we?

 

 

Narukoto.

Avoiding my own points?

Since I am just about the only person you haven't addressed..... more or less?

 

I'm not avoiding anyones posts at all, as you can see.

 

 

I've only been here two days, and I feel strongly about one thing that's exclusively here so far, your attitude.

Again, as the more I disect this passage, it's completely, completely, coutner-moderator.. (I have been offered moderator positions for other forums, as major as MMORPGs, as clan forums, and as LAN Arena company forums, I currently hold three of those positions, and I am fairly well valued on each forum).

 

I don't particularly care for your attitude either. Your opinion of me as a moderator doesn't bother me either. As you should know, when a moderator objects to anything, their position is instantly questioned. It's something I'm used to.

 

 

Find one which is anime, and we'll talk about it.

Whilst this one is not real it's a different issue, however is someone posted with an avatar of a real girl/lady in a bikini or a cloth, or a kimono doing the same thing I would back your oppinion, and BD knows I'm not kidding with that, there are limits.

As I said above, the material you are discussing as offensive, sexual, and sexist, is obviously NOT rated that way by the people who do the certificates on the films and TV Series you watch, because serise similiar to that, don't have a high enough rating to be considered ban material, it's not all that contraversial, and it's not exploiting any particular person.

 

I'm glad you agree that a real one is not appropriate, and I realise you don't think an animated one is in the same league, but I do.

 

Believe me, I've been on some of the worst and best forums on the web in terms of attitude, behaviour and other attributes you seem to value.

I will link you some in PM if you care to check, I don't wish to post them here out of respect for BD (Whom asked me to keep our relations to those other forums fairly seperate for a few reasons).

 

So have I.

 

 

An avatar, is an avatar.

I have one specific avatar I use on most forums, I haven't directed this forums profile toward it yet because I would have liked you to have acknowledged that there are people who are arguing against you that don't particularly give a damn about avatar/sigpic unless they're within acceptable boundaries.

My normal sigpic for the forum I frequent the most these days is currently;

http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/scriptquantumdelta/eyez2.jpg

 

With http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/scriptquantumdelta/Naruto.jpg for a sig pic.

 

My last desktop background was;

http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/scriptquantumdelta/Kiddy_grade-01.jpg

 

My current backgrond;

http://www.banime.com/output/shaorin1024x768.jpg

 

Good choice. What? You thought I had a problem with them?

 

 

No, you're being childish, the avatars inthemselves are not, since they are inanimate objects, and are incapable of being anything other than avatars themselves.

What they are, is what you make of them.

As you state here, your objective to them seems to me, to be childish, on the grounds of insecurity.

 

I disagree. The avatar is extremely childish. Believe me, I have never been insecure, nor will I ever be.

 

 

Irony considering my own comments....

It would be easy for me to proceed from this comment that all you are doing here IS pushing your own oppinion on other people and IS flaming BlackDove.

 

I am not pushing my opinion on anyone. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Where exactly did I flame BlackDove? By calling him a sexist? He is a self proclaimed sexist, so calling him one isn't a flame.

 

Please, maybe some deeper thought would be a good idea before a moderator is going to post their personal oppinions

 

I put a lot of thought into my posts, do you?

 

 

It is, and other oppinions should be taken into account, the moderators, are not here to serve themselves, they are here to serve the members of this forum, and they are here to keep the forum running smoothly, at this point in time I would be suggesting that, at least two, are doing the polar opposite.

 

I completely agree that we are here to serve other members of this forum. How exactly am I not doing that? Because I don't want to see bouncing boobs all over the place, and penis's and whatever else people can come up, this makes me a bad person right?

 

 

That's fine if you believe legality makes the difference, then you should be paying attention to the LEGAL rating that most anime containing content such as this avatar.

The only reasonable oppinion I have seen so far against it, has been one of the admins, whom wanted to keep the forums PG.

Meanwhile, others who are arguing it's sexist, and that's why they want it gone.

 

Sexist, heh.

 

I also said the avatar isn't appropriate for a family forum. My opinion that I think the avatar is degrading women remains the same.

 

Sexism to me is something I don't think lexx has ever seen, abuse of women (physical or mental) or men, simply because of which sex they are, sexuality is something different, sexuality in anime, heh, anime was originally meant to be, everything taboo, if you wanted to see some sexist stuff, I would post that, but considering how ignorant and how low your tollerance level for things seems to be I would consider you likely to throw up ¬.¬

 

You don't think I've seen sexism? Heh.

 

As I said above, I have no problem whatsoever with anime.

 

So tell me, if a girl (as I have met a few who do) choose to use this avatar, are they sexist? Heh, being unable to link profiles to these people as most of the forums I've seen these avatars used on have died out (as said before it's a fad, it comes, it goes).

 

Not once have I said that if a person uses that avatar, they are sexist. All my comments have been directed at the avatar itself.

 

 

 

Generally speaking, though, someone who finds animes sexist are really about as ignorant as they come.

 

Like I said, I love anime, but this discussion isn't about anime, it's about and animated bouncing boob avatar, in a forum, not in a film or tv series or whatever.

 

I asked around, and, even on #animesuki (fansubbers irc chat channel) over on rizon.net -- only one person, in the whole group (80 anime insane users) had ever seen a single sexist remark in anime. Scantily clad "perfect" girls, drawn a lot, but never actually in a sexist light, anime artists often like to tell stories with their anime and their focus is very rarely on sex (though there is a whole catagory that I avoid completely... about sex, from anime)..

 

See above.

 

Actually that's one of the best kind of parenting possible, if you don't deny your daughter of information she will be more prepaired, and, therefore stronger, and more capable of dealing with life when it throws things at her.

Due to the behaviour of Lexx, I would be interested on seeing how her children would develop mentally in comparison.

Though, that said, Lexx doesn't seem all that stupid, nor incapable, so the slight and probably normally indetectable difference in parenting would be a nice thing to note.

 

 

 

Again, I might be wrong, I don't know how she parents her children, however consider she is coming over as a fairly strong feminist, I wonder if she is inflicting those prejudices (Because they ARE Prejudices) on her children (I can tell that from her post she wouldn't do this conciously, I'm trying to make that point/musing as non-offencively as possible, but most of the ways you influence your children, are not conciously).

 

How I bring up my children is my business, and has nothing at all to do with this discussion. But I say again, I am not a feminist, even though I may come across as one.

 

As said, it was just a picture, if you didn't click the link or do not know what the picture is since it's anime it's not even real, it's not exploiting anyone, it's not berating anyone, it's not degrading anyone, and, I suspect it was never even intended in that light.

 

Again, I must disagree. The avatar does degrade women, whether you choose to see it or not.

 

It wouldn't even be rated 12, or 15 if rated for an age cert.

 

Hense I can't quite see your point in terms of looking at the picture as a pornographic one.

Then again, that's because I don't.

 

I don't see it as pornograpic either, just offensive.

 

I'm here because I'm a person who tends to enjoy a decent debate, when I first hit reply I expected one, since this forum seems to have pretty decent standards, and Jay upheld those standards.

 

I'ev been to this forum a few times over the past couple of years, everytime I never felt the need to sign up, because, unless something needs saying, I wont.

 

In this case, no one was saying, what I felt should have been said.

Though if Jay had posted earlier in the tone in which he posted just now, I most probably wouldn't be here, right now, unless he was ignored.

 

I enjoy a decent debate too, when I'm not too tired after looking after two young kids and can find the time (which is rare).

 

I have been doing my best to avoid flaming people or saying things which people may find offencive, but at the same time I refuse to be anything less than 100% sincere in what I say.

 

I echo that when I say I go out of my way not to insult people, but obviously people will find offence in a lot of things they read that disagree with their opinion.

 

On your note of saying if any specific avatar even affends a single person on this forum it should be removed, I will sustain that point, however, in that, specific case, I would point out the total, and extreme hypocrisy of lexx advancing censorship when posting with what I would deem a sexually orientated avatar, that is, a lot of cleavage that doesn't need to be there, with the loss of a few pixels, it would not be in the image, but she has chosen to leave it as it is.

 

and, along with the other points I have made (unmoderator like behaviour), it is this hypocrisy which would make me feel so strongly as to abject to the presence of that avatar.

When a precident is set, it is kept..

 

I change my avatar virtually every day, to mirror what I'm into or like at the time, but I have specifically kept this avatar this long to illustrate my point. How you find this avatar more offensive than one than has boobs bouncing up and down in it is quite honestly beyond me. My avatar in no way degrades the subject.

 

...

 

I'm obviously being made out to be some feminist prude who hasn't had a good seeing to in ages, but I assure you, I'm quite the opposite. I've "got my tits out for the lads" in IRC on more than one occasion, but this isn't IRC, nor is it an anime film, nor is it anything but a forum. The question is, is this avatar appropriate for this family forum, will it lead to other avatars that are worse than it with the excuse that if one person can have bouncing boobs, then why can't I have a bouncing penis or whatever else, and is this what everyone really wants this forum to become? The answer is left to the admins.

 

This discussion also seems to being going off on many tangents that have no relevence.

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by leXX

I am neither sexist, racist or homophobic, so believe me, my farts do smell a damn sight sweeter than your foul smelling ones.

 

Excuse me, that's the first thing up there on your super refute post with excellent one-sentence-replies :roflmao:. Not only are you childish, but apparently unaware of your arguments.

 

Originally posted by leXX

Oh, and I'd like to thank Jed for realising that I'm being attacked simply because I'm female. =)

 

Yeah that's right, couldn't possibly be because your views on things are just downright stupid and socially ludacris (well in my opinion at least, but people apparently share it). However I understand it's hard to defend the afformentioned fact, so it's better to just blaim it on male abuse. After all, that is the real problem here, not the fact that we're living in the 21'st century while you're stuck god knows where in the past?

 

Originally posted by QuantumDelta

No clue.

Sexuality is not something I have a problem with.

(...*stares at BD waiting for the comment *...)

 

Hey, I was the one sharing my pre-adolescent experiences on the first page, and discussing the largness of my genitalia without any jokes. Stop glaring.

 

RayJones - First and foremost, thank god for the ability and experience to articulate things better than me, and I have to say that I agree with most/all you have to say on the issue of this avatar and general sexuality that the avatar may be radiating in connection with children. However although I will agree that this should be out in the open and it in fact is better for children and parents to tackle any incoming problems head on, because there is nothing wrong with it nor un-natural (I'll come back to your question in a sec), I will have to agree with Matt here, that this is indeed a Star Wars forum, not sex-ed or anime. As much as our freedoms are shrunked or expanded on this forum, we are all generally constrained by the theme in one way or another.

 

That's my opinion as far as children go in connection to the avatar. As far as the avatar and its effects on children, seriously, as my more-informed-about-anime biatch says, the avatar is not only morally harmless by social definitions (we know what's unacceptable and acceptable, in social terms, so let's not pretend that porn equates to that avatar), but also harmless in view with the rating syndicate.

 

As far as me being a sexist for liking the avatar -

 

The question -

 

Originally posted by RayJones:

we are naturally born naked and things that "hang" or are "attached" somewhere have the tendency to move. so why make an "unnaturally" thing of it?

 

I'll try to answer this the way I see it - the reason people find it un-natural or should we call it in leXX's case immoral is because for those people it doesn't matter werther the image in itself is or is not offensive, Because they associate the sexual organs with their own personal prejudice, with any kind of embellishment on said organs they have no other choice but to go down the irrational psycho road. I could be mistaken, but unlikely.

 

But then people say, she's a woman, she has every right to complain. Yeah that's true, but when her complaints rule over voices of reason because she happens to be authority, then I have a problem with it. No vote in the world on werther the avatar itself is appropriate or unapropriate in accordance to the rules of the forum helps my issue there.

 

So why do I have to suffer the consequences of someone who obivously has no ability to view the matter in the correct way? Because they're a moderator, so I'm supposed to just bend over and take it up the ass, and not only that, I have to agree that I'm a sexist, female-abuser, stereotipically male dominantor of poor opressed women, because I happen to like the avatar?

 

Just NO

 

Which in where lies the reason I risked a ban with my higly offensive post on the first page. While I will agree with Jed that moderators should hold their own, I just don't care about that aspect of solidarity when it comes to me being labled as the above.

 

I'll admit I'm sexist, but I'll admit that on my OWN and I won't have someone doing the definition for me just because they find the peice of art "unapropriate" and because they happen to be the authority in the place where it's inapropriate.

 

In any case, that's what my rant is about. Werther the avatar is acceptable for the forums or not, I guess we have a vote now, and we'll find out. But I will not be labeled as a dumbass officially, just because people can do that.

[swphreak]

The biggest problem I have with the avatar is it draws unwanted attention in public.

 

If I'm at school, in a library, or even at home, I shouldn't have to worry about someone looking over my shoulder and seeing an inappropriate avatar. They'll jump to conclusions and I could get in trouble (at school).

 

If anyone has to worry about a situation like that, then it shouldn't be allowed here.