xrefusex Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I suppose the enthusiasm generated from fans of someone's work in progress can act positively for everyone involved. I understand why there is a bit of secrecy over what is actually happening (and no public beta), but at the same time, I suppose if the modders get the impression that nobody cares, they on their turn will more likely loose interest in my opinion. What I'm saying is that a few screen-shots won't do anybody any harm, nor detract from the mod development; if anything, it might generate more interest in it. The question is whether the team wants that extra attention at the point they are at the moment. Perhaps they don't need the extra pressure from even more impatient or overly enthusiastic fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I suppose the enthusiasm generated from fans of someone's work in progress can act positively for everyone involved. I understand why there is a bit of secrecy over what is actually happening (and no public beta), but at the same time, I suppose if the modders get the impression that nobody cares, they on their turn will more likely loose interest in my opinion. What I'm saying is that a few screen-shots won't do anybody any harm, nor detract from the mod development; if anything, it might generate more interest in it. The question is whether the team wants that extra attention at the point they are at the moment. Perhaps they don't need the extra pressure from even more impatient or overly enthusiastic fans. Between 2005 and 2007 there were no updates. Nowt. Nada. We survived just fine. Last year, we got lucky and TSLRP were generous. Now, they're busy again. Be like those of us who've been around a bit longer: patient! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSOCC Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I'll consider myself embarrassed when I see the project finished within one month. but so far you've not shown much proof to your claims of progress. 1 flash animated film containing much that has now been released in other mods not wanting to wait for tslrp doesn't actually show all that much. you could do a lot to gain trust just by showing what you're doing and what you got. until then, I'd say, disprove my claim that the RP is BS. I want to be wrong, believe you me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I'll consider myself embarrassed when I see the project finished within one month. but so far you've not shown much proof to your claims of progress. 1 flash animated film containing much that has now been released in other mods not wanting to wait for tslrp doesn't actually show all that much. you could do a lot to gain trust just by showing what you're doing and what you got. until then, I'd say, disprove my claim that the RP is BS. I want to be wrong, believe you me. This is not KotF. They aren't demanding money or making excuses. However, that said, you are correct that there is no evidence that they are working on it, except that: Others have now been able to produce similar results - after the release of the videos, There is no reason to suppose that the project _isn't_ continuing. Prove to me beyond reasonable doubt that they _aren't_ working on the project. Or is it simply that you're impatient and leaping to conclusions based on very little other than your own desire to be pandered to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taak Farst Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I and a lot of others have waited patiently since the start, in fact the whole modding community has never complained. For some reason we have a couple of probably-spoiled impatient brats who won't give the team a break. They don't have to do this you know - they do not get paid with anything for it.If they wanted to they could completely cancel the project and not listen to you whining. luckily for you, you haven't yet spoiled it all for everyone. Oh and use your common sense - IT IS NOT ABANDONED! It is just that they haven't had an update since october! So what?? The only stuff they would probably have right now to say is they fixed a bug! If there has been an update since Oct. please som1 gimme da link coz it aint on TG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrefusex Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 If they wanted to they could completely cancel the project and not listen to you whining. luckily for you, you haven't yet spoiled it all for everyone. I seriously doubt that they would cancel a three-year project, simply on the basis of what 'impatient' kids on a forum have to say about it. Especially not if they are as close to completing it as it appears to be. If they do quit this project, it's probably going to be because they've lost the interest in it or don't have the time anymore. If they (or anyone in a similar situation, for that matter) do however claim that it's people being impatient on a forum, it shows how big an ego someone has. That's my opinion anyway on public criticism/scrutiny. Between 2005 and 2007 there were no updates. Nowt. Nada. We survived just fine. Last year, we got lucky and TSLRP were generous. Now, they're busy again. Be like those of us who've been around a bit longer: patient! I had a look on their WIP page and between 2005 and 2007, there have been 18 progress reports; the first two years had seven each (albeit 2006 more spread out) and 2007 only four. Some were simply what they've been doing or plan to do, more recently video montages of 'in progress' work in final(?) stages. I have only been aware of TSL:RP for about a year and a half, then again, I only found out about KotOR two years ago. I don't think it's really that demanding that they update their progress (or even lack of) on a regular (say bimonthly?) basis. I know from my own academic experience (working on a PhD), that unless you make regular progress reports, you'll never get anything done on time or at the standard that you yourself might have set. If anything, I find it helps put things into perspective, when you are going through notes and drafts from three years of research; to see where you are and where you thought you'd be. Then you can figure out your pace of work and manage yoru time more efficiently. So while the team might stress they will release it when they are happy with it, their concept of what 'happy' constitutes might well be an unrealistic attainable level of playability or cohesion. That's where the community's critical assertions come in handy. In my case, I have a supervisor who wants to see progress every few months, to guide me through the loop-holes, and team gizka's case, the public's stress can be a positive motivator (something along the lines of "think of how many people will be ecstatic when this comes together!"). Sure, Team Gizka aren't making any money and have no obligation to embark on it. That's awesome, I'm not disputing it, in fact I applaud their stance on that (I'm also in a DIY punk band and we give our records for free, not just mp3s, but proper cd's and tapes) and understand the pressures of doing something without expecting any material/financial rewards. That's why I'm showing interest enough to support, post and express my concerns with the outcome of this project. Unfortunately, I am completely useless when it comes to programming and applied maths and I don't think that they would be 'hiring' anyone, otherwise I (and I'm assuming many other people who post here), would offer any skills to help with this project. When this does come out (and I realistically see it coming out by late summer time, if not fall 2008), I will make sure I tell everyone I know who's played TSL to check it out and let Team Gizka how awesome their work is. Until then though, all I can do, as a member of the community around them, is observe and comment. In any case, my observations are meant to be constructive criticism, not a malicious attack to project my own insecurities or that I'm 'spoiled'. I don't expect a full-blown explanation from any team member (that would TRULY be wasting their valuable time), but rather a demonstration of progress being made, something to remind me (and everyone who feels the way I do), why I'm actually waiting for this to materialise. Peace out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robespierre Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I'll consider myself embarrassed when I see the project finished within one month. but so far you've not shown much proof to your claims of progress. 1 flash animated film containing much that has now been released in other mods not wanting to wait for tslrp doesn't actually show all that much. you could do a lot to gain trust just by showing what you're doing and what you got. until then, I'd say, disprove my claim that the RP is BS. I want to be wrong, believe you me. You're joking. You must be joking. I just doubt that anybody in the world could conceivably think that TSLRP isn't real. Let me show you the proof ~snipped flaming~: 1) The decompiled scripts - ~snipped flaming~ http://www.team-gizka.org/developers.html And there you would see something fantastically amazing. That's right, you'd be able to see that you are wrong. So wrong. You don't see it? Wow. Its called "nss source". And while we have to see past your very obvious ignorance of everything to do with "modding", this is actually a record of all of the scripts used in game. They are all complete with commentary on each of them. ~snipped~ 2) The movies. You said "1 animated flash movie", but do you understand the difference? Do you understand what a flash movie is and how its made? Or do you enjoy making unbased accusations against a group of people who you know nothing about? The several in-game movies that they have made show that they are making progress. And I'd like to see the other mods that have restored all of that content. Have you actually seen anything to do with modding at all? 3) The mantis - In it there are details on every bug they have ever encountered. The end. I also like your contention. You seem to have gone from "they aren't working fast enough oh noes!" to "well they're faking it". Neither are correct. In any case, my observations are meant to be constructive criticism, not a malicious attack to project my own insecurities or that I'm 'spoiled'. I don't expect a full-blown explanation from any team member (that would TRULY be wasting their valuable time), but rather a demonstration of progress being made, something to remind me (and everyone who feels the way I do), why I'm actually waiting for this to materialise. Well said. Someone please cleanup/close this thread. It seems to be becoming cluttered with obvious trash. And please don't contribute to the problem by flaming. --Jae EDIT: Originally Posted by Dashus in the team-gizka.org forums here Some things of note: This weekend will see the release of 1.0b1. It has been a long time coming. Especially given the amount of complaining some of you are wont to do Those of you on the closed beta list: I will contact you when it is available (presumably late Friday or Saturday morning EDT) along with details about how to go about getting it. Not ALL of the content on our list is restored. "But you said you'd restore all of the content on your list before 1.0b1!!!1!1!" Plans change. Surprisingly, what works well in war, works well in modding: never reveal your plan. We'll learn that lesson eventually. We think. The content that's left isn't OMG NEW CONTENT kind of content. It's stuff we could add in a patch if we waited that long (though some of it we don't even want to think about right now :twitch: ) That said some of it will probably make it in before 1.0c1. "But what about the bugs?!?!?!?!1?/!/" As has been repeatedly said: 1.0c1 is the version that will have that low low bug count (maybe not 0 but we'll see.) For those of you now thinking "I knew they'd go back on their promise! I knew we'd get some crap mod! They're not restoring all the content and they're not fixing all the bugs!": you're still getting a mod. With very few bugs. Mantis can attest to that (as can our fingers after three years of typing.) I've asked the closed beta testers to write their impressions, good, bad, or other and post them. Hopefully most will be good, but, secretly (or not so much anymore), we're also hoping for a couple bad just so people can see this isn't about pleasing everyone. We've not done this for three years in some vain attempt to make everyone, or in fact, anyone, happy. Nor are we doing this for some weird ego-fueled trip into (fleeting, flaming internet) fame. We're doing this because we've enjoyed and enjoy doing it. That and we'd kinda like to see this thing finished. It's a modder thing... Etc. Now are you embarrassed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Personally I think TSLRP is real; afterall what logical reason would there be to have a set of project forums where you get abuse for having taking time over a project and not releasing it? In other words why get a load of abuse for somethign you are not doing? I think TSLRP is real, that they are doing great work, and its coming when its done. Also progress was reported recently; down to just 3 bugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharen Thrawn Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Down to 3 bugs, + Dash confirmed that 1.0b1 will be out THIS weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatra Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Down to 3 bugs, + Dash confirmed that 1.0b1 will be out THIS weekend. I don't believe that it will be out this weekend. Everytime they went low on the remaining bugs, they found other bugs and ruined my hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharen Thrawn Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I don't believe that it will be out this weekend. Everytime they went low on the remaining bugs, they found other bugs and ruined my hope Have you actually read Dash post? 1.0b1 build will be ready this weekend regardless those few bugs that are still left, same with the little bits of still-unrestored-content. After 1.0b1 version is ready, closed beta-testing begins, and in the meantime, till 1.0c1 (wich is public release) there'll be adding remaining content and fixing bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 a. It's a real project. b. It's a huge project. c. It's all-volunteer, these people aren't getting paid. Also, these people have to coordinate everything via the net--it's not like a company where they can sit down at face-to-face meetings to get stuff done. d. These people have A Real Life that extends beyond TSL. This is their hobby, not their job. e. Their work has already produced benefits to the community, and if nothing else gets done, that's a huge help to us right there. f. Those of you who are mad it's not done should learn a little about gratitude and patience. We've lost absolutely nothing by the project not being done, and we've gained a lot from what has been done. It'll get done when it's done. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Etc. Now are you embarrassed? Put a smile on my face. For various reasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vougalot Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Also, these people have to coordinate everything via the net--it's not like a company where they can sit down a face-to-face meetings to get stuff done. See, this is one of the major factors that play into projects such as this, and one that most people seem to forget. A large group of people working together over the Internet makes everything about six times harder as opposed to a real-life team working together under one roof. This is why companies churn out new games relatively quickly, while large-scale mods tend to take years upon years. Though, if you compare this project to other projects, such as those being developed for Jedi Academy -- namely the Dark Forces (which has been left unfinished), Jedi Knight and Mysteries of the Sith mods -- TSLRP has made tremendous progress and actually looks like it will be completed and the creators will not lose hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander the Great Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Oh, my bad. I meant, JFSOCC's statements. My apologies to you. Don't ask me what I was thinking because I don't even know. Yeah, that's what I thought.... f00. *Runs away* This weekend, you say? That's really grand. These guys deserve seventy-two virgins and a $10 coupon to Sears. Yeah, 72 Orlando Blooms for the gals, thank you very much. --Jae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robespierre Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I don't believe that it will be out this weekend. Everytime they went low on the remaining bugs, they found other bugs and ruined my hope You did know that even if they reached zero bugs 2 years ago they wouldn't have released it? More bugs appeared as content was implemented. They didn't implement all the content in four days and then the 2 and a half to 3 years of work was just gradual fixing of bugs. f. Those of you who are mad it's not done should learn a little about gratitude and patience. We've lost absolutely nothing by the project not being done, and we've gained a lot from what has been done. That's the best I've seen it worded so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I did a fair amount of housekeeping editing/removing posts from the last few days. Discussing the project's progress is fair game, but everyone needs to keep it civil. Please avoid making inflammatory comments about how the TSLRP team doesn't seem to be meeting your perceived expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSOCC Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 If I'm embarrassed, I'll only be glad for it. my life doesn't depend on having to be right. still, I'll believe it when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatra Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 You did know that even if they reached zero bugs 2 years ago they wouldn't have released it? More bugs appeared as content was implemented. They didn't implement all the content in four days and then the 2 and a half to 3 years of work was just gradual fixing of bugs. i agree with you. I never thought about it. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taak Farst Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I think someone said they were releasing a beta in the weekend. (weekend is now go) will we get the beta on sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Down Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Seems it is only a few weeks away from public release! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctrl Alt Del Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I think someone said they were releasing a beta in the weekend. (weekend is now go) will we get the beta on sunday? Nope. The it's closed beta. The chosen ones are already testing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferc Kast Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I think someone said they were releasing a beta in the weekend. (weekend is now go) will we get the beta on sunday? 1) They just switched the build version on their site; They're now on build 1.0b1. 2) We won't get the beta; The beta testers that Dashus selected in September are beta-testing it. On more good news, we are close to the coming of the Gizka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctrl Alt Del Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 On more good news, we are close to the coming of the Gizka. I'm still skeptical that we'll see TSLRP opened for download until early fall. I bet that some bugs will be found on the beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taak Farst Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I'm still skeptical that we'll see TSLRP opened for download until early fall. I bet that some bugs will be found on the beta. There will still be a public beta in a few weeks though won't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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