Limitations.

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

Here's something new I want to see for kotor...

LIMITED EVERYTHING!

 

I want to be dueling Sion when my saber finally dies, I switch to my shorter backup sabers, after they burn out I switch to my mandalorian heavy blasters until I hear the hollow clicks of an empty ammunition clip so I throw them at him and start jabbing, and by the time I land that last solid haymaker my armor has 3hp left and is hanging in pieces.

 

Limited personal inventory would of course accompany these combat modifications.

 

Swords could also dull, the more damage done, the more damage decrease from dulled edges (must be sharpened or replaced) and when used to block attacks they slowly start to break (hope you're not in combat when it does)

 

I would like to see armor degrade during use, plates dangling by threads, underlayments fraying and shredding etc.

If done with physics instead of just multiple models it would really help customize your character, especially when a part falls off and you have to make an emergency replacement with a lower quality plate, and you eventually start to look like one of those cars with four different styles of fender.

(note: more applicable to scruffy looking gaurdian types, not so much for the jedi princesses, unless you want her to look like a real dirty girl;))

 

An option to purchase different types of ammunition for blasters, from non-lethal to poison to buckshot, each type has a different effect on the life of the gun when used.

 

Any thoughts? (and before anyone whines, remember that realistically niether sabers or blasters last forever, the latter even more so)

[Emperor Devon]

I don't know... it would take a very long time for all your weapons to burn out, and don't you think that the characters recharge/sharpen their weapons on the Ebon Hawk between worlds?

 

As for the duel with Sion, that is unlikely. Lightsaber blades have quite a bit of power, and I don't think they would burn out after a few hours.

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

If the weapon is more powerful chances are it will degrade more quickly, ammunition eventually runs out, nothing material lasts forever.

 

I believe limited blaster ammunition and drainable lightsaber "charge" (add to it a power that lets you drain an enemies weapons or them yours) to be a useful strategic element.

 

And in the case of sion, you have 2 experienced combatants fighting an offensive battle (attack weighed over defense due to his natural defense) with most likely tricked-tuned-modded-souped up lightsabers (also probably using very different extra damage types) smashing into each other over the course of a drawn out battle, that would seem to drain them quickly.

You could also say that due to the various types of energy possibly involved in your saber (+5 electrical), it would drain more when used against certain energies or materials, and perhaps even recharge and absorb others.

 

I really don't see how you could argue against degrading armor either.

 

Also how do you know what weapons technology exists in the old republic, trilogy weapons seem to last a while, but that's 4000(?) years in the future, all we've seen in this period is unlimited everything (most likely due to programming simplicity).

[RobQel-Droma]

^Do you know how much extra work that would be?! Come on, you need to be a bit realistic. The devs aren't going to do this, it would be a waste of valuable time that could be spent on other things. I don't think you understand what the devs would be undertaking if they did this; Even if they had a lot of time, they would run out trying to do all this "plates hanging by a thread/lightsabers burning out" stuff.

 

And it doesn't really make any difference, it would be useless- maybe in a different game, but not a game like KotOR. We have gotten through the past two games without even remotely thinking about that, so why all of a sudden would it be really all that crucial?

 

And everybody would hate it, trust me. I bet that if that came out, 99.99% of people would be going "WTF!?" It probably the most hated thing in the game. So no, stick with what they have been doing, there isn't any need for all this extra pointless stuff.

 

And Emperor Devon is right, don't you think that maybe your party does some maintenance work every once in a while? And anyways, would they really need to? You never see Luke stopping in a saber fight and going "Hold on Vader, I need to change the power cell." They last a bit longer than that, come on.

[RedHawke]

Don't play too many RPG's there RJM huh?

 

First, weapon/item maintinance is not necissary as it is assumed your characters take care of that on their own.

 

Second, no where in Star Wars do we see this anywhere in action.

 

Example: TPM both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn go through quite a bit, and their robes and sabers look as good at the end as they did at the beginning. The same can be said of Han and Luke in ANH... "Garbage Shute" included!

 

Third, Blasters are energy weapons and as such do not use Slugthrower types of ammunition, though most can be set to stun... but only in the Movie Era, we never see this in KotOR.

 

These are non-issues to me... sorry.

[Darth Windu]

My first reaction to this thread was "...why?". It doesn't seem like it would add anything to the game. I actually quite liked the comment by the stuck Mandalorian on Dxun when he says "when was the last time you ran out of ammo?".

 

I also agree with the others - weapon maintenance and whatnot would be done on the ship and when going through hyperspace.

[Emperor Devon]

Third, Blasters are energy weapons and as such do not use Slugthrower types of ammunition, though most can be set to stun... but only in the Movie Era, we never see this in KotOR.

 

Blasters do use ammunition, though.

 

Although it would be realistic if you could run out, I'm against it. You never see that happen in the movies, and it would get rather annoying. Besides, blasters carry so much ammunition that you never would have to worry about that, and lastly, it doesn't seem very RPG-ish to be able to run out of ammo.

[RedHawke]

Blasters do use ammunition, though.

Nope.

 

Just re-checked the D20 Star Wars RPG Core Rule Book, all the Blasters have no Ammo or Shots listed catagories in the equipment area, so they indeed never run out of power, and are considered charged between games.

 

Now if we were talking D6 Star Wars RPG you would be correct.

[Ztalker]

Wel, it could be cool if Kotor was a more...realt time game.

Also, limitations don't have to be essentialy bad.

Example: After batteling a Sith Lord, your lightsaber might be a bit damaged, so you'll get a dmg penealty of 2% or something, like in the WoW system.

 

Also, i would seriously wonder how Carth's armor could survive the battle with Bandon without any burned parts.

 

Repairing stuff could be a good thing. Would make repair usefull to have as skill.

[Arátoeldar]

Another vote for no, I hated that crap in Diablo.

[Cygnus Q'ol]

Although I dissagree with implimenting these drastic changes in this next installment, had there been a "repair upon entry" to the Ebon Hawk or a degradation of armor and weapons in the first two games, it may have had some value.

 

However, IMO, this would take away from the gameplay format that we've grown accustom to in kotor and TSL.

 

I wouldn't want to spent hours travelling to three different worlds just to get a lightsaber power cell or something just as ridiculous.

 

I can see your point, but, I'm not sure it would work in this series.

[JediMaster12]

To be honest I don't think the idea would work because, ultimately it would take away from the gameplay and anything the devs could be doing to reduce the bugs in the system. After all in KOTOR and TSL, you regain health and force powers when you enter the Ebon Hawk. I think that is just fine.

[Emperor Devon]

Nope.

 

I was referring to Star Wars in the movies and EU.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, Missile Launcher in kotor do have ammo limits (Mira's)

Though I don't think a lightsaber would need ammo restrictions... or everyone would do a Sith Tremor Sword.

 

Seriously though I don't think its a good idea.

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

Well, then it could be an extra option for those who aren't afraid to scratch their precious toys;)

 

I don't see why you can't have choices for rule modifiers.

 

@Rob, All the more reason for a HL2 like production time instead of a three(-) year weakness.

And if they go with a Ngen setup "hanging from a thread would work pretty well (you can already do this in Gary's Mod;))

Lightsabers burning out (if simplified) would work in a multiplied form of what's already used for shields (why they can run out and a blaster can't I'll never know).

Well, I want to do that maintenance, if I want to have the "option" to do more, why not, you don't have to turn it on.

 

@Redhawke, No I don't, they take forever so I only play what I like (the same with any title I choose regardless of genre) and I want that experience to be as deep as possible.

"first" YOU ARE YOUR CHARACTER!!! Isn't that the point of RPG???

"second" Because they only want to make a 2-3 hour movie, and they scrape for every second they can get, GL wants to show epic environments instead of soldiers reloading, but you can play a game for as long as you want. Also in star wars we see characters eat and yet they don't crap or throw up or anything, why don't their bowels burst? The ability to throw up in Breakdown was great, because so few games have ever even bothered to try.

A great series is constantly expanding and improving, if it's the exact same game in 10 years, I don't even want to play it, no matter how much I enjoy playing it the repettitive gameplay will drag the story down.

"example" That's called a plot hole (SW is loaded with them) Have you not heard my outcries against "youngling sweatshops". And many other filmakers out there do pay attention to it. AND you do can change your clothes in kotor (an improvement over the movies) I just want to take it to the next level.

"third" Maybe you just haven't seen them yet, not all weapons are energy, there are also darts, rockets, and many others, assuming that there is only one style of ammunition in the galaxy would get you PWND in a matter of seconds when a knife passes through the energy shield projected from your armband and stabs you in the back.

These are issues to me...sorry:D

 

@DW, I've never performed any of this maintenance "yet" (ammo in the field, maintenance at the ship or workbench)

 

@ED, How much ammunition does a blaster carry, use that number for the limitation, a large ammunition quantity can be balanced by larger groups of enemies.

 

@RH, Yeah, that might have been what they used, but I'm talking about a fictional universe in the form of a video game, and there will always be weapons that run out of ammunition "Matter or energy can't be created or destroyed, simply changed from one form to another" that matter or energy is being sent to another area, once you've used it all there won't be more until you've replaced it.

If that makes it more complicated it's because it is more complicated, and if we don't like complication then we might as well drop everything except attack and defend, who needs things like %chance to stun (I've never seen luke skywalker hit someone with a saber and the victim just stands ther all confused) maybe even get it down to the "WIN BUTTON" that's not the way it works:D

 

@Ztalker, YES!!! Someone who isn't stuck in their old ways:D

 

@Aratoeldar, then don't play Diablo, and set rules to basic(whatever title RH said) when you play KIII:)

 

@JM12, yeah, that's nice, but you can't really walk through a door, then go back through and have full health, I think a restore modifier would make more sense, your health restores at thrice the rate when in a safe area, and if your force can deplete (and blasters don't?) you should have to meditate or something to increase restoration.

 

@Cygnus, even something as simple as that would be nice, "you have X damage to armor, would you like it repaired for 5c before you leave, or repair it yourself"

 

@PoiuyW, then maybe a STS wouldn't have been a...

"Waste of valuable time that could have been spent on other things"-RQD

 

Everyone who's given an opinion about what they don't like hasn't discussed the ability for it to be optional, if it was an option would your free will shut off and force you to use it?

[IndianaSolo]

No thanks. It would become annoying more than "interesting".

 

Features like these are about as "interesting" as having to eat, sleep and go to the bathroom.

 

Because let's face it, if we want to be realistic our heroes need to eat, sleep and use the washroom a few times a day.

[TheOneMan]

Another thing that also show's how much power a Lightsaber has is in the book "Shatter Point"

 

Mace Windu used a SINGLE Blaster Cartriage (yes, Blasters run out of ammo :S) and his lightsaber was recharged for DAYS on End. :S

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

@IS, Why not include those as well:D

Like I said, it should be optional, like setting the difficulty, except that it's not the challenge but the experience details.

 

@TOM, So you're saying that the saber usually has a longer or shorter life?

Is the book "official"?

Why did he need the cartridge in the first place?

[Jae Onasi]

Finally, a use for all that extra stuff in my inventory! I thought I'd never find a way to use up the 23 blaster rifles, 12 lightsabers, and 8 sets of armor (complete with more upgrades than items) that I seem to be always carrying around with me/finding inside cannocks.

 

Seriously, if you, say, are fighting a boss with a lightsaber, his is running out about roughly the same amount as yours, so your sabers would still be at roughly equal power throughout the fight.

You can play RPGs a couple ways: a. Make each player specify that they're repairing items, going and getting explicitly stated items for spells, spending x hours studying tomes, etc. b. Or, you can say to everyone at the start of the game, "we're going to assume that your character is going to use downtime to repair stuff, study, and acquire the necessary supplies for fighting and spells. The DM is going to charge you x credits periodically to reflect this, so we can concentrate on the story/action." Some DMs really get into the 'go and search for chamomile sprigs in order to do x spell'. A lot of DMs don't want to mess with that, though, because they find it distracting from the flow of the overall story itself. There's nothing wrong with either approach; however, Kotor's taken approach b for these 2 games, and switching to approach a for the third installment would be rather jarring. I tinker enough on the workbench, and while I don't mind doing that to create upgrades/better weapons and armor, I'd rather not spend a lot of time just doing repairs. I'll pass on watching barfing and other forms of elimination in Kotor, too. If I want that level of realism, I'll either read one of my journals or get a game that goes into gory detail. Besides, I get enough potty humor from my son.

[Darth Windu]

johnnymike - you say 'we can add it an an option so people who dont want to use it dont have to'. Thats beside the point. The fact is that this would be fairly hard to implement, and would take up a lot of hard drive space for what are really irrelevent features.

 

The KotOR games do not limit ammunition, or the amount of time armour will hold up etc - get over it.

[JediKnight707]

I read Shatterpoint (great book), and what happens is Mace Windu is starting to fight, when his lightsabers starts to lose its power.

[Darth Windu]

No. He starts to fight and his sabre fails, which is when he realises the cops who had picked him up had drained it.

[RobQel-Droma]

Rob, All the more reason for a HL2 like production time instead of a three(-) year weakness.

 

While I want them to take time on KotOR III, I want to at least play it before I die... I don't know exactly how long it would take, but to impliment every single one of the ideas exactly as you mentioned...

 

And in the case of sion, you have 2 experienced combatants fighting an offensive battle (attack weighed over defense due to his natural defense) with most likely tricked-tuned-modded-souped up lightsabers (also probably using very different extra damage types) smashing into each other over the course of a drawn out battle, that would seem to drain them quickly.

 

Lightsabers do not "burn out" during a ten-minute Sith Lord fight. I'm sorry, but they have a much longer lifespan. This isn't just a case of Lucas not wasting time in a movie by not putting the recharging of sabers in there, it is just that it doesn't happen. Lightsabers would last for weeks, or even months. Perhaps longer, you never really are told how long one could last, or, if one could even "burn out" to start with.

 

Maybe you just haven't seen them yet, not all weapons are energy, there are also darts, rockets, and many others, assuming that there is only one style of ammunition in the galaxy would get you PWND in a matter of seconds when a knife passes through the energy shield projected from your armband and stabs you in the back.

 

But the ones that aren't energy (grenades, Mira's launcher, droid weapons) already have limited uses or ammunition. As for energy weapons, a good power pack could last for around 500 shots; I don't care how many enemies you face, it is going to be a long time before you get to that on a single blaster. Besides, as I said before, it is kind of a given that your party will maintain and recharge their weapons.

 

The ability to throw up in Breakdown was great, because so few games have ever even bothered to try.

 

You could throw up? Thats not great, that is a waste of time. Sorry, but even if this isn't a 2-3 hour movie, there are some things that are nice options, and others that are complete wastes of valuable time and effort.

 

An option to purchase different types of ammunition for blasters, from non-lethal to poison to buckshot, each type has a different effect on the life of the gun when used.

 

For one, different types of ammo don't work with certain weapons. Secondly, blasters do not have such things as "buckshot." They are laser weapons, they don't use slugthrower ammo.

 

Not only that, it is a fact that a sonic weapon does not use the same type of energy as does a Charric, for example. So what you are proposing means that there will be countless "blaster pistol ammo"/"sonic charges"/"ion cells" or others in the shops. You would also be including the options on every single weapon you had to be reloading that particular weapon, whether it is one out of your 13 blaster pistols, one out of your many ion weapons; it would be extremely complex, and would add a whole new worry for people.

 

If you remember some of the weapons, you could modify them so that they could do sonic damage/ion damage/etc. along with the regular blaster fire. How would that be possible? Are you going to put two ammo packs in the same dinky little blaster pistol? Not only would it be time consuming, making sure everything was loaded and worked, then having to go all the way back and do it all over again; what happened if you ran out of a certain type of ammo, would the blaster not work anymore? And finally, for the most important point, can a blaster even be drawing out of two ammo packs that are entirely different, and put them in the same "bolt?"

 

and if your force can deplete (and blasters don't?) you should have to meditate or something to increase restoration.

 

Riiiight.... So that is what Kreia was doing every time she was meditating or resting- she was restoring force points! It just doesn't work that way, RJM, and it hasn't worked that way in the previous two games. The force isn't something that you "pull out of a large tank" so to speak, there is no such thing as "filling yourself up with force." The force is something that resides in the person, and surrounds them; It isn't some kind of ammo that Jedi carry with them around.

 

I really don't see how you could argue against degrading armor either.

 

Because it is too much to put into the game. Ok, you say that "realistically", armor degrades, and you should have to repair it after hard fights. Yeah, and "realistically", one small plasma grenade should blow your whole team to bits, no matter how leveled up you are .

 

It doesn't matter if it is just an option, 3/4 of people will never use it. Do you really think the devs will put time and effort into something like this that only a quarter of people will use, or understand?

 

Not to mention that half of it just doesn't apply in Star Wars, of course.

[RedHawke]

I don't see why you can't have choices for rule modifiers.

Hence my question RJM, you would have to understand the RPG a little better to understand why this type of stuff is not bothered with.

 

Everyone who's given an opinion about what they don't like hasn't discussed the ability for it to be optional, if it was an option would your free will shut off and force you to use it?

They don't fit into the scope of the D20 rules, even the optional ones, so they will not be in a KotOR game, simple as that... thanks for playing!

[JediKnight707]

No. He starts to fight and his sabre fails, which is when he realises the cops who had picked him up had drained it.

 

That's what I said.