The Canonical Exile

[TheGreenGoblin]

Personally, I choose Light Side Male. But I'm not so sure story-wise. I heard someone is trying to get the canonical Exile to LS female. And in fact, I might agree and choose Light Side Female as canon; it seems to feel right for the character. There's only one thing preventing me from that, though - Brianna. Females don't get her, they get Mical. If there wasn't the whole gender thing, I'd say female, but I prefer Brianna in the story.

 

 

 

That's essentially my feelings on the matter.

[mjpb3]

LSM, why?, why not?

 

21st century in our galaxy perhaps, or warped mind scape, not the SW universe where almost every main character is a Male...

 

And don't you think that is a d@mn shame?

 

I'd like for once to hear about a strong female Jedi character for Star Wars, that there is no chance in hades of being canonically anything other than a strong female Jedi character. (I won't begin to go into my problems with Leia... but let's just say that I won't count her...)

 

You guys have Anakin, Luke, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, et al...

 

What's so wrong about us gals having one STRONG female Jedi, be she Exile or Revan?

 

Not to say that anyone isn't valid in making their Revan/Exile a male character. No, I say... more power to you.

 

But why do some guys get all bent out of shape if we gals refer to Revan/Exile as female?

 

Geez, we're not asking YOU to have sex change operation, we just want the right to have a female Revan/Exile. Is that too much to ask?

[Alkonium]

Well, technically LSM Revan has already been deemed the canonical version of him by Lucasfilm, but you still have a chance to have a female Exile or possibly the PC in K3, if it's neither Revan or the Exile.

[mjpb3]

Well, technically LSM Revan has already been deemed the canonical version of him by Lucasfilm, but you still have a chance to have a female Exile or possibly the PC in K3, if it's neither Revan or the Exile.

 

Technically, I don't give a rip one way or the other what Revan is canonically. She will always be a she to me

 

But the idea that the Exile should be canonically a LSF, in essence, just feels like someone trying to placate me, because canonically Revan is a male... blah blah blah... etc etc etc...

 

Bah, I say. I will always see the Exile AND Revan as LSF. And I will shout it from the rooftops if I have to.

 

Besides, canon is just for storyline clarity anyway.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again... canon schmanon...

 

MY Revan and MY Exile are female and always will be

[Darth InSidious]

IIRC, Wookieepedia said that the current de facto canon Exile is that he was LSM. The canonical ending to both games is LS to, AFAIK.

[Jae Onasi]

LS Female. I also find the idea of a LS male Revan meeting up with a LS female Exile intriguing--the story possibilities are endless. Mical would have been a much more interesting companion if he didn't have such a hovering puppy-dog, idolizes-the-Exile personality.

 

Sure, I know 2006 falls within the 21st century.

 

I hope you weren't too offended by my "women go shopping" comment as I intended it to be a whimisical argument having no real merit or applicability.

(snipped)

 

I'm a Geek (and I'm OK with that ). I didn't take any particular offense with the stereotypical girl shopping thing because I'm not a stereotypical gal and so it doesn't apply (and having seen many of your posts, didn't believe you had a misogynist streak anyway ). I spend more time playing Kotor than I do going shopping (and that's including grocery shopping). I find reading sci-fi, taking taekwondo, doing church stuff, and surfing the Storm Prediction Center website and this forum all to be far more interesting than looking at the latest fashions in store windows and magazines. I suspect that many who are here for any length of time, male or female, don't fit into any kind of stereotype.

 

So while in my personal opinion I think the Exile is male that doesn't mean that I think female gamers shouldn't be respected by the gaming industry as well as male gamers. On the contrary, we have some very respectable women on these forums who have contributed much for KotOR fans in general, e.g. Aash Li, Darth333, ForceFightWMe12, Fuu, Kitty Kitty, Jae Onasi, stoffe -mkb-, yourself, and I'm sure there are more that I could mention but am failing to remember at the moment. [Hearty Bellow] TO THE WOMEN OF KotOR!

 

Well, I'm not entirely sure how I managed to get mixed in with such an august group of ladies, but thank you.

 

The gaming industry is overwhelmingly dominated by men. That's not an indictment, it's just how it developed. I don't know demographics for sure, but I imagine male gamers are also in the majority. From a purely business point of view, if you're looking at your demographics and see most of your players are male, then you're more likely to gear your product for the male market in order to maximize profits. If the vast majority of game creators are guys, they're going to create things that generally appeal to guys, and I don't know that they're going to actively think 'hey, do gals view this game differently than guys, and are gals going to like this too?' I don't view that as disrespectful to women. I think perhaps there's the assumption that if they like something in a game, everyone's going to like it, male or female. I just don't think many game creators (male or female) think much, if at all, about the male/female player differences when there's so many other things that go into developing a game. I'm seeing more games available that are specifically geared towards girls, so I wouldn't be surprised if in 10-20 years we see more games geared towards women as the field evolves.

 

I don't believe how each of us views the gender of Revan or Exile to be an indication of respect/disrespect for the opposite gender, either. It just happens to be what we enjoy while playing.

[Gomper]

Im usually light side male because i prefer the story with this however occasionally id be dark side male just because i like the added power and stuff you can get with it.

[RobQel-Droma]

And don't you think that is a d@mn shame?

 

I'd like for once to hear about a strong female Jedi character for Star Wars, that there is no chance in hades of being canonically anything other than a strong female Jedi character. (I won't begin to go into my problems with Leia... but let's just say that I won't count her...)

 

You guys have Anakin, Luke, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, et al...

 

What's so wrong about us gals having one STRONG female Jedi, be she Exile or Revan?

 

Not to say that anyone isn't valid in making their Revan/Exile a male character. No, I say... more power to you.

 

But why do some guys get all bent out of shape if we gals refer to Revan/Exile as female?

 

Geez, we're not asking YOU to have sex change operation, we just want the right to have a female Revan/Exile. Is that too much to ask?

 

mjpb3, I think you need to calm down a bit. I don't see anyone getting "bent out of shape" by your comments: I certainly wasn't. I personally voted LSF myself, not out of the reason just because Revan is male. I don't really care how you think of Revan and/or the Exile, because it all depends on the person. And as to being absolutely no strong female characters in the SW universe, well; That is not even remotely true.

[mjpb3]

mjpb3, I think you need to calm down a bit. I don't see anyone getting "bent out of shape" by your comments: I certainly wasn't. I personally voted LSF myself, not out of the reason just because Revan is male. I don't really care how you think of Revan and/or the Exile, because it all depends on the person. And as to being absolutely no strong female characters in the SW universe, well; That is not even remotely true.

 

I'm as calm as calm can be

 

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine, even though I am, admittedly, a bit overzealous sometimes in expressing it, I am still entitled to it, aren't I?

[stoffe]

Though I think it is a bad idea to pronounce a canon variant of a character that was designed to be open to the interpretation of the player/reader, if I had to pick one variant it would have to be the Exile as a Light-side female. That's the first variant I played in TSL. First impressions tend to stick and make any subsequent variants feel not quite as genuine.

 

And as to being absolutely no strong [Jedi] female characters in the SW universe, well; That is not even remotely true.

 

For example? I can't think of a single one, though that is probably not surprising since my knowledge of Star Wars outside the movies and the games is fairly limited.

[Alkonium]

For example? I can't think of a single one, though that is probably not surprising since my knowledge of Star Wars outside the movies and the games is fairly limited.

Both the villains in Jedi Academy were women, and what about Jaina Solo, Padmé, Bastila, Mon Mothma?

Perhaps they could just attempt to please everyone by saying that the canonical exile was a neutral hermaphrodite, and therefore both male and female, and both good and evil.

[90SK]

...I think it is a bad idea to pronounce a canon variant of a character that was designed to be open to the interpretation of the player/reader...

 

I agree. Revan can be pictured just as much a female as a male, just like the Exile. It all boils down to personal preference, which is ultimately what was intended.

 

I like both characters Male, as they're easier to relate to. As for alignment, I'm inclined to say "initially LS" male for Revan, and a neutral alignment for the Exile, just because they fit my interpretations of the character's personalities. This outlook may change depending on the storyline for KotOR III.

 

Both the villains in Jedi Academy were women

 

I would hardly call Tavion "strong".

[TheGreenGoblin]

Both the villains in Jedi Academy were women, and what about Jaina Solo, Padmé, Bastila, Mon Mothma?

Perhaps they could just attempt to please everyone by saying that the canonical exile was a neutral hermaphrodite, and therefore both male and female, and both good and evil.

 

 

Mara Jade's another off the top of my head.

[stoffe]

Both the villains in Jedi Academy were women

Indeed, though the question was about strong female Jedi, not about women in starwars in general.

 

Tavion, while trained as a Dark Jedi by Desann (who had Jedi training), was anything but strong. She was an immature, cowardly brat, and more a follower than a leader. After Desann fell (Jedi Outcast) she couldn't stand on her own or see the error of her ways, and instead set out to find a new master who she could serve faithfully (Jedi Academy).

 

Alora was essentially Tavion Jr., a brat with a huge chip on her shoulder and no Jedi training save what Tavion taught her. Hardly a character inspiring respect or fear. She would be right at home in Malak's Korriban Academy.

 

Padmé, Mon Mothma?

Neither of them were Jedi as far as I know.

 

But I certainly agree that Mon Mothma is a strong leader type. She's more of a diplomat than a doer.

 

Padmé I'm a bit ambivalent about. In the first prequel movie she could certainly classify as a strong (but extremely naive) character, but in the latter two she seemed to devolve into a mere accessory of Anakin rather than her own person.

 

Bastila

Physically strong perhaps, not so strong in other aspects (mentally, emotionally, in principles). I don't know if I would consider anyone who easily falls to the Dark Side for dubious reasons to be a great or strong Jedi.

 

 

Jaina Solo

Haven't heard of this one before, so I'll take your word for it.

 

 

Perhaps they could just attempt to please everyone by saying that the canonical exile was a neutral hermaphrodite, and therefore both male and female, and both good and evil.

Or, they could just refrain from "canonizing" the character, which would essentially be the same?

 

It doesn't matter that much to me either way, the characters are clear to me in my mind as I perceive them no matter how some site claim they should be. I'd imagine it's the same for most others who have played the game.

 

As for strong female Jedi characters, I was merely curious. The little I have seen of the Star Wars EU outside the games haven't exactly encouraged me to explore it in more depth.

[RobQel-Droma]

@mjpb3, the reason I said "calm down" was because your post sounded a bit angry. I got the impression that you were mad because all this stuff was mostly a guy majority, whether it was canon Exile or other games.

 

@stoffe -mkb-, for example: Mara Jade, Nomi Sunrider, Bastila Shan, Kreia (kinda), Brianna, Jaina Solo, and the list goes on...

 

It doesn't really matter, the Exile is who anyone wants the Exile to be. When I think Canon, I just think what it would be if the games were made into a movie or a novel.

[Shana]

Mara Jade was an Emperor's hand but she then became a Jedi and Luke's wife, I would have to say she is one of the strong Jedi. Also Adi Galia could have been, she was on the council with Windu and Yoda.

[mjpb3]

Ok, maybe I should clarify. I was thinking more of a

strong female Jedi in games. A PLAYABLE strong female

Jedi... that's more of what I was referring to...

[Alkonium]

I'm not too sure about Adi Gallia, the only things I know she did were train the woman Obi-Wan fell in love with, and get killed by General Grievous. I recommend we get back on the topic of whether the canon exile. I for one think he should also be male because that's what they show on all of the ads, but those also show the Exile with the Handmaiden and the Disciple.

[TheGreenGoblin]

 

Physically strong perhaps, not so strong in other aspects (mentally, emotionally, in principles). I don't know if I would consider anyone who easily falls to the Dark Side for dubious reasons to be a great or strong Jedi.

 

 

To her credit she did hold out under an entire week of constant torture, that's no easy feat.

[RedHawke]

To all you people about the so called "Cannon LSM" Revan ending for KotOR.

 

This is not what you all seem to think, it is merely a guideline for other EU authors to go by, the same will be for the Exile.

 

Remember, that when discerning the order of things the game itself is the highest form of "cannon" for KotOR and the story of Revan, and as such Revan is either gender, the same will apply with the Exile.

 

LA and LFL can make all the "cannon LSM" statements they want to and it is only as worth as much as the paper it is written on, because the game itself overrides them as it is the highest form of "cannon" on the subject.

 

Just how things seem to work with Star Wars, just like when discerning between the Movies and the EU, the movies take precidence.

[Char Ell]

^^^

I agree with RedHawke. As long as someone doesn't start writing KotOR novels, drawing KotOR comics, or *gasp* making KotOR movies with a gender-specific Revan or Exile then the gender is really left up to the person who plays the game. I am interested to see how future KotOR games will address the gender issue with respect to Revan and the Exile however.

 

Of course, my Exile will continue to be male, heh-heh-heh. But I'm quite sure mjpb3's Exile will continue to be female.

[mjpb3]

Of course, my Exile will continue to be male, heh-heh-heh. But I'm quite sure mjpb3's Exile will continue to be female.

 

You got that right in one, my friend

[The Distorted]

To all you people about the so called "Cannon LSM" Revan ending for KotOR.

 

This is not what you all seem to think, it is merely a guideline for other EU authors to go by, the same will be for the Exile.

 

Remember, that when discerning the order of things the game itself is the highest form of "cannon" for KotOR and the story of Revan, and as such Revan is either gender, the same will apply with the Exile.

 

LA and LFL can make all the "cannon LSM" statements they want to and it is only as worth as much as the paper it is written on, because the game itself overrides them as it is the highest form of "cannon" on the subject.

 

Just how things seem to work with Star Wars, just like when discerning between the Movies and the EU, the movies take precidence.

 

Yeah - true, I guess that's what's really important, actually (because the context is derived from the games first and foremost).

 

I remember on some other message board, someone said they couldn't (and didn't want to) envison how "messy" the third game could get if you have the opportunity to decide both Revan and the Exile's gender and alignment, and then of course you have this new character in the same situation also. It's mainly because (I guess - we're all assuming that) this is going to be the concluding chapter, and therefore (unlike KotOR II) both Revan and the Exile will no doubt have to be directly involved (in person - at least if only for fanservice) with - again, at the very least - the conclusion of the game.

So maybe they will re-use the Exile or Revan as the PC (or maybe you get to choose - starts you out on two different paths, and you can again set their gender, alignments etc. but that would get incredibly complicated also), or they might feel they have to set them in a canon-like role, maybe afterall (that would suck though, IMO - it would take away alot of the point of the series).

 

All in all - basically, I'm glad it's not me who has to theorise and program all the potential various eventualities that the next game will no doubt hold!

 

Imagine how Obsidian (if they truly are the ones to do it) feels right now (and will even more-so in times to come) - probably like this:

 

 

lol

[PazaakPrincess]

I would like to think, however, that they didn't want to alienate a large fanbase (cough, cough) which is why in TSL you get to chose not only your character but that of Revan, they will have to introduce a system of deciding the alignments and genders even if the two characters are only used in a back-story.

 

One can deduce from the ending of TSL however, that since your character survices and the Ebon Hawk flies away that it is more likely you will get to play the Exile again. Although the possibilities are endless including the possibility that Revan was hiding on the planet (she has been there before) and stole the Ebon Hawk out from under the Exiles nose

 

Perhaps this is one of the reasons it is taking longer for the release of this game, because this part of the plot device will be very complicated and spawn a miriad of outcomes. Which of course would make it worthwhile to play over and over again. The true mark of a good game.

 

Kotor is wonderfully accessible to many different people because of it's emersive storyline and ability for the player to define their PC almost as an extension of themselves and then again for the player to drive the plot through defining the history of the Universe, so to speal. It would only be ruinous to stop allowing such creative control of the player at this pivotol point.

[Alkonium]

If you think canonisation arguments like this are bad, at least we're not arguing about a canonical version of the PC in Fable: The Lost Chapters, since that is far more open-ended, although you don't get a choice in the character's gender. Besides, RH is right, the canonical version only matters if they make books, comics, and films based on the games, which currently isn't the case for TSL, since the canon Revan has already appeared in a comic.