Evolution

[Dagobahn Eagle]

OK, so the aliens thread is being de-railed, so I figured I'd be a good boy and save the moderators some trouble by creating this thread myself:).

Well, that [my statement in the other thread about how a theory can be proven] seems to contradict everything I learned about scientific method in school.

Sad, that. I've had teachers with some misconceptions myself.

 

If Talk Origins' "propaganda" didn't convince you, do a Google search for something like "what is a theory".

 

I tend to ignore the propaganda of an obviously (blatantly) pro-evolution website.

But you're obviously quite fond of Creationist propaganda, ending up with the mis-conceptions you have.

 

I'm not saying that evolution didn't happen. What I am saying is that this theory IS being pushed as fact, and has been for decades, and they're just coming up with "proof" now?

Nope, they showed proof pretty much since Day 1 (fossil record being one example). It's hardly my fault you've been ignoring it outright.

 

It has also been pushed as proof that God doesn't exist and that the universe is the result of some random cosmic accident.

The Theory of Evolution states that life went from bacterial level to what it is today through natural selection and adaption. It says nothing whatsoever about "accidents" or the creation of the universe (that's the Big Bang Theory).

 

Evolution contradicts the natural progression of the universe (you know, from order towards entropy),

No, it doesn't. If you didn't write off scientific facts that disagrees with you as "propaganda", maybe you'd read articles such as this one that teaches you how the said law really works. Pity, but what can I do?

 

If scientists would stop devoting so much time to trying to disprove the existence of God (who can not be proven or disproven, so why bother?) they would make a lot more progress.

Yeah, maybe we'd have things such as nuclear power, space ships landing on the Moon, lethal diseases conquered, satellites orbiting our planet enabling me to discuss evolution with someone on the other side of the world, and a program to land on Mars by the monkeys in NASA. But no sir, all the engineers, botanists, physisists, biologists, paleontologists, and astronomists spend all their time trying to disprove God. Sad:(.

 

Seriously, though, a very small portion of scientists today work actively against religion. And most of those who actually do fight religion do so in self-defence (those who try to keep evolution in school from being overrun by Creationist mythology, for example). If they stopped, we'd be making a whole lot less progress, as there'd be even more Intelligent Design and other pseudo-science around than there is, and thus even more pressure on scientfic progress.

[milo]

Question-who are you quoting?

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Qliveur in the aliens thread.

[Achilles]

A little more high-brow than LFN, but still a fun* read.

 

http://www.evcforum.net/

 

*Disclaimer: I have a very warped concept of "fun".

[Prime]

Let the half-truths and misinformation fly!

 

Just me nice about it!

[stingerhs]

well, it is an evolution vs creation type thread, so i think its safe for me to lay a bit of my thoughts on the table.

 

as always, i like to start with the biggest problem with creation: you have to first accept that there is a supernatural being of some sort. scientifically, this is a huge hurdle since the existance of supernatural beings cannot be measured or quanitified through any scientific method. thus, it is a safe assumption for some scientists to summarily dismiss the entire idea of creation as nothing more than a religious belief that is not based on fact.

 

however, the problem with that kind of thinking is that it is itself unscientific. if you cannot prove nor disprove a theory, then you cannot dismiss it entirely as it does remain as a possible explanation until it can be disproven. however, it is the idea that a supernatural being exists that still remains the biggest hurdle to overcome since it is so deeply embedded in our personal morals and beliefs. if one does not believe in God or gods, then it is extremely difficult to view creation as a viable theory on the beginnings of life. thus, some form of an alternative must be found in order to satisfy the belief in no supernatural being.

 

the only other possible explanation, then, is evolution. scientifically, evolution makes more sense since things can be explained through measurable terms in some areas. there is no requirement for supernatural intervention, and thus it is much easier for anyone to accept as fact.

 

however, the fundemental problem with evolution is not neccesarily the theory itself. it is the cultural acceptance of the theory as fact. evolution cannot be proven the same as creation due to the simple fact that time travel is not currently possible.

 

so, we are then left with interpreting evidence in the form of fossils and other remains of the past. however, it is yet another mistake to assume that evidence is solid proof. it is ignorance to take incomplete evidence and then assume one interpretation as fact while dismissing other interpretations. full and complete evidence is needed, and unfortunately, we are dealing with an immense amount of time whether it be ten thousand years or three trillion. thus with degradation of the evidence, it is then impossible to see the complete evidence. one interpretation based on the evidence can be as easily valid as another interpretation based on the evidence.

 

the point of the matter is that the ideas of creation and evolution are going to come down more to our central religious beliefs then the endless debates between scientists. if you can believe that a God or other supernatural beings exist, then creation is a viable theory to accept. if you cannot believe that a God or other supernatural beings exist, then evolution is a viable theory to accept.

 

on a personal note, i believe in the Genesis story of creation. there isn't much that could make me believe otherwise aside from solid proof that God does not exist. call it ignorance if you want, but as i stated earlier, neither theory can be proven reguardless of the "evidence". to me, the thought of humanity evolving from monkeys is as difficult to believe as it would for an atheist to believe in the existance of my God.

[Emperor Devon]

As an atheist, this issue seems all the more ridiculous to me, and especially how narrow-minded some of the creatonists can be about it. From a Christian's point of view, there is fossil evidence of evolution, so why not think that God created mankind and used evolution as his tool?

[stingerhs]

^^^^

and some people do believe that way. however, that is, again, up to your own personal belief structure. it's dependant on if you believe in a literal interpretation of the Genesis account or if you can allow for some 'independant thinking' of sorts to allow for evolution.

 

fundemental believing Christians resoundingly reject the idea, but other more liberal-believing Christians are willing to accept the idea.

[Jae Onasi]

Let the half-truths and misinformation fly!

 

Just me nice about it!

 

Because we don't have enough controversy in our lives. The Senate must have gotten a little quiet lately.

 

Here's what I think. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

One day, God (please feel free to substitute the Deity of your choice, unless you're atheist, in which case substitute E=mc2, because we all know that Einstein pwns and we do not wish to be politically insensitive) said Let there be Light (or Ra's egg, or the great cobra carrying Vishnu, or the Vast Ocean, or Yin and Yang, or the Woman singing to catch the Man, and so forth).

It was all very Chaotic, and yet it was Good, mainly because it was still one giant ocean (or void, if you prefer) and no land had yet formed. You could surf all day on that ocean.

 

Ra then begat Osiris, who had a little chat with God who made Eve and Adam (because we are politically correct and include both, woman first). Odin tried to fence in the world with some big Ygdrasil tree, but that didn't work so Brahma was put to work and somehow we get ghee from that, which is fabulous. Jupiter and Mars decided to tackle the planets. They all got together and made up Mesopotamia (or Central America if you're of the Aztec persuasion), exept for Gaia, because we all know the Greeks Don't Like No Freaks. She headed to Greece instead and established the Parthanon and gyros that are out of this world.

 

Well, one of them (your choice) created some primordial ooze (unless you're in Scandinavia, in which case please substitute 'bogs'), from which, through the magic of mythology, religion, and/or plain dumb luck, sprung forth the first Organic Chemical (I believe it was a ketone, but I'd prefer an alcohol at this point in the day). Perkunas in Lithuania and Xolotl of the Aztecs got together and shot lightning all over the place to convert these simple Organic Chemicals into Complex Multi-Chain Proteins and even (inhale sharply here) RNA and DNA. Wow! Of course, if you were in Egypt, you just set the ooze in the Pyramid and invoked Pyramid Power and maybe Alien Crop Circles (now debunked) to do the work of 2 Lightning Gods from opposite sides of the World.

 

Anyway, after all these Organic Chemicals and Complex Proteins got together to have a party (tell RJM it was _not_ an orgy), they decided they didn't like the Laws of Thermodynamics and so they decided to violate them, but only locally, so that the Laws could be oppositely unviolated somewhere else to balance everything out, which made Yin and Yang very happy. After the party (not orgy), some little primitive creature got sick of being stuck in the ooze and ocean, and it crawled up onto land, thus beginning the breathing process that eventually led to lizards, frogs, birds, dinosaurs, gizka, Australopithecus Africanus, Cro-Magnon Man, and maybe some aliens. Unfortunately, some Prions snuck in which is why we're now stuck with Mad Cow Disease, but that's another story. The Norse were very simple, and made Bog people out of the Bog.

 

Meanwhile, in Mesopotamia, God (or Deity name of your choice, because we are Culturally Sensitive) decided that 6 days was good enough for Him (or Her), and was smart enough to rest on Day 7, thus instituting the weekend for us in the US and the 4 day work week in other parts of Europe. S/He saw that all was good, until Adam and/or Eve ate one too many apples and really Screwed Things Up For All Mankind, at which point God (Or Deity of your choice, because we understand all our special differences) decided to wash their mouths out with soap and water, but mostly water. This created the Flood that everyone talks about in the Middle East, which shook up and completely changed around the fossil records, because God (or Deity of your choice, because we care enough to be tolerant) has a wicked sense of humor and wanted to confound the wise and/or Darwin, with simple things like doing wacky things to geological strata (like turning them inside out or upside down) and establishing carbon dating techniques.

 

Fortunately, Carbon decided to marry that special other Technique, and now they are no longer dating. After all that, the Aliens decided It Was Good, and landed on dry ground with the dove with an olive branch, and they plopped Adam and/or Eve (or first humans of your choice, based on your religion or lack thereof) on the ground and told them to quit being stupid or their sinning would turn them into nuclear-wielding idiots that would freak out the rest of the galaxy.

 

So that's how evolution works.

[JediKnight707]

Oddly enough, I was going to create this thread soon ^_^.

 

I believe in God with all my heart. I do. But, I personally believe in some sort of evolution. I'm not saying that we all came from monkey's, but I do think that along the way, we have...changed.

My mom's side of the family are Orthodox Christians. My cousin tried to convince me that we were created by God like 10,000 years ago. I heard her out, but I had to disagree. The story just didn't add up to me.

If you believe in evolution, I've got a question for you: what's next? What's the next stage?

[Q]

DE:

 

I don't know why I can't get the "use quote" option to work...

 

You said:

If Talk Origins' "propaganda" didn't convince you, do a Google search for something like "what is a theory".

 

So I did...

 

the·o·ry (thē'ə-rē, thîr'ē)

n., pl. -ries.

A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.

A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.

Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.

A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.

An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

 

That last definition is quite interesting...

 

 

YOU:

But you're obviously quite fond of Creationist propaganda, ending up with the mis-conceptions you have.

 

 

ME:

No, I just read the Bible...cover to cover...more than once...is it propaganda?

 

I don't listen to Creationist propaganda any more than I do Evolutionist. It's origins are human, and humans are full of crap! I just read the Bible and drew my own conclusions, without someone else's "interpretation" of it.

 

You have to admit that Talk Origins is an extremely biased site.

 

 

YOU:

Nope, they showed proof pretty much since Day 1 (fossil record being one example). It's hardly my fault you've been ignoring it outright.

 

 

ME:

Do these fossils contain DNA so they can actually document genetic progression? Are they 100% sure it isn't just mutation? Of course they're not, but you'll never hear that in a classroom, unfortunately.

 

 

YOU:

The Theory of Evolution states that life went from bacterial level to what it is today through natural selection and adaption. It says nothing whatsoever about "accidents" or the creation of the universe (that's the Big Bang Theory).

 

 

ME:

Funny: I thought the two went hand in hand... in being used to try to disprove Creation...

 

 

YOU:

No, it doesn't. If you didn't write off scientific facts that disagrees with you as "propaganda", maybe you'd read articles such as this one that teaches you how the said law really works. Pity, but what can I do?

 

 

ME:

Oh, yes it does. The entire universal progression is from order to entropy-that is, EXCEPT where evolution is concerned (and the results of the Big Bang, for that matter). Evolution is in quite the opposite direction. In order for evolution to have occured in nature it would take, I don't know, what's the word...A MIRACLE!

 

 

YOU:

Yeah, maybe we'd have things such as nuclear power, space ships landing on the Moon, lethal diseases conquered, satellites orbiting our planet enabling me to discuss evolution with someone on the other side of the world, and a program to land on Mars by the monkeys in NASA. But no sir, all the engineers, botanists, physisists, biologists, paleontologists, and astronomists spend all their time trying to disprove God. Sad:(.

 

 

ME:

If you're trying to disprove Creation, you're trying to disprove God...

 

It would seem that NASA would be better off if it WAS run by monkeys, IMHO.

 

 

YOU:

Seriously, though, a very small portion of scientists today work actively against religion. And most of those who actually do fight religion do so in self-defence (those who try to keep evolution in school from being overrun by Creationist mythology, for example). If they stopped, we'd be making a whole lot less progress, as there'd be even more Intelligent Design and other pseudo-science around than there is, and thus even more pressure on scientfic progress.[/QU

 

 

ME:

Take a look at the flipside: We have become a meaner, more shallow society just in the relatively short time I've been alive. If anything, society is DEVOLVING-the inevitable result of the implementation of social Darwinism. Do you think that a theory that PREACHES that we all evolved from animals being crammed into our kids' brains in schools worldwide (along with all the other socio-political brainwashing crap) might have something to do with it?

 

The whole "survival of the fittest" idealology is destroying us by destroying our human identity. It's implanting the idea that since we're little more than talking monkeys, then we may as well act like them. I'm sure that's NOT its intention, but it is the result. Look around you.

 

It would really be funny if it turned out that God created the heavens and the Earth-via the Big Bang and Evolution. Well, with Him all things are supposed to be possible...and He does have a devine sense of humor...

 

We obviously aren't going to convince each other of anything, so let's just agree to disagree and call it a day.

 

 

Q

[Achilles]

well, it is an evolution vs creation type thread, so i think its safe for me to lay a bit of my thoughts on the table.

Two moderators and no lockie-lockie? Well then...

 

as always, i like to start with the biggest problem with creation: you have to first accept that there is a supernatural being of some sort. scientifically, this is a huge hurdle since the existance of supernatural beings cannot be measured or quanitified through any scientific method. thus, it is a safe assumption for some scientists to summarily dismiss the entire idea of creation as nothing more than a religious belief that is not based on fact.

Agreed.

 

however, the problem with that kind of thinking is that it is itself unscientific. if you cannot prove nor disprove a theory, then you cannot dismiss it entirely as it does remain as a possible explanation until it can be disproven.

Even a theory has to hold up to some sort of scientific measurement. The word I think you're looking for is "hypothesis". The scientific community doesn't just run around creating theories without any checks and balances. Some form of rigorous testing and peer-review takes place before something is considered a scientific theory.

 

 

however, it is the idea that a supernatural being exists that still remains the biggest hurdle to overcome since it is so deeply embedded in our personal morals and beliefs.

One might wonder how this came to be. If one looks to the fossil record of man and accepts that there was a biological evolution, then it might stand to reason that there was an intellectual/spiritual evolution as well. Ancient religions worshipped supreme beings that controlled the weather, the food, etc, etc. As we adapted socially, surely our religious beliefs adapted as well. One might say that all current religions are the current step in a spiritual evolutionary chain.

 

So if this deeply imbedded sense of supernatural wasn't imbued by a supernatural being but instead came from our primitive minds trying to grasp our surrounding, then I suppose it wouldn't be any big deal if we all decided to leave it behind us one day.

 

if one does not believe in God or gods, then it is extremely difficult to view creation as a viable theory on the beginnings of life. thus, some form of an alternative must be found in order to satisfy the belief in no supernatural being.

Agreed.

 

the only other possible explanation, then, is evolution.

Possibly. Perhaps someday something else will come along to replace the theory of evolution. I have no idea what it might be, but it's potentiall foolhardy to assume that there might not be something else.

 

scientifically, evolution makes more sense since things can be explained through measurable terms in some areas. there is no requirement for supernatural intervention, and thus it is much easier for anyone to accept as fact.

I agree with most of this. Please note that any self-respecting scientist would not confuse theory with fact. Surely some might argue passionately about a theory, but that isn's the same thing as confusing it for something it is not.

 

however, the fundemental problem with evolution is not neccesarily the theory itself. it is the cultural acceptance of the theory as fact. evolution cannot be proven the same as creation due to the simple fact that time travel is not currently possible.

Theory must be supported by evidence in order to be considered theory at all. Time travel is not possible however fossil records do exist and can be used to paint a somewhat accurate record of events that have transpired in the past.

 

Perfect? No. Faliable? Certainly. Throwing something against a wall and really hoping that the masses will buy into it? Most certainly not.

 

If we are culturally accepting theory as fact, then perhaps there should be a stronger endeavor to correctly teach our children the scientific method.

 

so, we are then left with interpreting evidence in the form of fossils and other remains of the past. however, it is yet another mistake to assume that evidence is solid proof.

Agree, as per my comments earlier.

 

it is ignorance to take incomplete evidence and then assume one interpretation as fact while dismissing other interpretations.

I wonder who is holding the smoking gun in this picture. Surely, not the scientific community? I'm hoping there is more about these "other interpretations" later in your post.

 

full and complete evidence is needed, and unfortunately, we are dealing with an immense amount of time whether it be ten thousand years or three trillion. thus with degradation of the evidence, it is then impossible to see the complete evidence. one interpretation based on the evidence can be as easily valid as another interpretation based on the evidence.

I agree with some parts of this and disagree with others.

 

I disagree that a full-view is impossible. It doesn't exist now, but that does not mean that it cannot exist in the future.

 

Also, I take some pause with the idea that any interpretation is just as valid as any other. If one interpretation collates with an expected outcome and another does not, then clearly one is more valid than another for the purposes of supporting that test for that hypothesis.

 

the point of the matter is that the ideas of creation and evolution are going to come down more to our central religious beliefs then the endless debates between scientists.

On the surface, this doesn't bode well for those of us without religious beliefs. Are you absolutely certain that this is the way is has to be? As in, there isn't any other possible way that it could be?

 

if you can believe that a God or other supernatural beings exist, then creation is a viable theory to accept. if you cannot believe that a God or other supernatural beings exist, then evolution is a viable theory to accept.

I struggle with your use of the word "theory". Theories have to be supportable and therefore there has to be something to measure. If the source of religion cannot be measured, then I don't know if one could consider Creationism a theory (scientifically speaking). Using the dictionary definition of the word, Creationism would most likely belong under the category of myth. I am being literal. My intention is not to incite or to insult.

 

The rest of your post is personal commentary, therefore it would not be appropriate for me to comment on it.

[Achilles]

ME:

Take a look at the flipside: We have become a meaner, more shallow society just in the relatively short time I've been alive. If anything, society is DEVOLVING-the inevitable result of the implementation of social Darwinism. Do you think that a theory that PREACHES that we all evolved from animals being crammed into our kids' brains in schools worldwide (along with all the other socio-political brainwashing crap) might have something to do with it?

 

The whole "survival of the fittest" idealology is destroying us by destroying our human identity. It's implanting the idea that since we're little more than talking monkeys, then we may as well act like them. I'm sure that's NOT its intention, but it is the result. Look around you.

Hi there,

 

Sorry to butt in, but I felt compelled to comment on this part. You seem to be implying that the current state of the world has some sort of causal relationship with how much religion is making it's way to our young people. I was hoping that you might have some sources to support your argument.

 

It's possible that the world is meaner. It's also possible that church attendance is down. It's probably going to be really difficult to prove that one is causing the other.

[Q]

Hi there,

 

Sorry to butt in, but I felt compelled to comment on this part. You seem to be implying that the current state of the world has some sort of causal relationship with how much religion is making it's way to our young people. I was hoping that you might have some sources to support your argument.

 

It's possible that the world is meaner. It's also possible that church attendance is down. It's probably going to be really difficult to prove that one is causing the other.

 

 

Sure, I have a source: personal experience. In school I was forced to bear witness to it every day. The implementation of social Darwinism was part of the curriculum, and it showed.

 

Later, I attended a Lutheran high school, full of kids that had always attended a Christian school. The difference was like night and day. Sure, there were still occurances of evil here and there, but they were far less frequent and frowned upon (not encouraged) by the faculty, and most of the student body as well.

 

I don't attend church. Churches have become as corrupt as the rest of society, probably because the members of the congregation attended the same public schools, with the same curriculum.

 

It's all about how much power you can wield over your fellow man. "Beat thy neighbor" is the name of the game. In other words "F*** your buddy."

[Achilles]

Ok, just checkin'. Thanks for your reply.

[TK-8252]

It's implanting the idea that since we're little more than talking monkeys, then we may as well act like them. I'm sure that's NOT its intention, but it is the result. Look around you.

 

This is so ridiculous that I too feel compelled to respond.

 

Are you honestly suggesting that people these days are more uncivilized because of the teaching of evolution??

 

Have you read the Bible?! The tribes of the Old Testament were so barbaric and murderous that they would slaughter an entire village, rape all the virgins, and enslave all the children as if it were business as usual. They really DID act like animals! But today - in a more secular world - we call that a war crime. Back then, it was unheard of that humans evolved from apes.

 

I dare you to go to the Middle East and try to teach evolution and Darwinism to those religious wackos - you'll promptly be beheaded for being an infidel. Those people would laugh at the idea of evolving from apes... and yet they ARE acting like animals.

 

So please... I'm SO tired of hearing how people like myself will be doomed to a life of immorality. Someone who DOES believe in god, however, is more likely to do stuff like...

 

- Bomb an abortion clinic

- Shoot up a gay nightclub

- Drown their kids to save them from the devil

- Fly a 747 into a building

- Blow theirself up on a crowded bus

[HerbieZ]

/me dives in to save this thread

 

Im not such a big fan of the religeous sources of origin. The story of Adam and Eve conveniantly misses out the dinosaurs. I don't know about some people but i watch Jurassic Park religously. (Boom boom) According to Star Trek, we will all evolve in to giant Salamanders however.

 

I would like to believe our skeletal structure will become stronger, our lungs will have greater capacity, our skill will evolve sufficient defenses against stronger radiation than UV. I also believe our eyesight will improve as well as hearing. We will loose our nails as they are an offshoot of claws and we dont need them, the internal organs will become more redundant. We will have a second heart (which im sure one Ahtonaut already has) as well as the functions of the liver become part of the stomach too. Women will also have three... no okay this is just wishful thinking now.

[Q]

This is so ridiculous that I too feel compelled to respond.

 

Are you honestly suggesting that people these days are more uncivilized because of the teaching of evolution??

 

Have you read the Bible?! The tribes of the Old Testament were so barbaric and murderous that they would slaughter an entire village, rape all the virgins, and enslave all the children as if it were business as usual. They really DID act like animals! But today - in a more secular world - we call that a war crime. Back then, it was unheard of that humans evolved from apes.

 

 

Yeah, I've read it. Rape all the virgins? What were you smoking when you supposedly did? Have you read the New Testament? Obviously the wackos you describe haven't, either. God is not to blame for the stupidity of mankind.

 

Society has gotten worse-ask anyone from the previous generation, or the one before that (those that are still around). You'd be surprised by how many would agree with me.

 

@Achilles: I should have thought of the above in response to your question. There's your source. Hope you read this.

[Ztalker]

Remember, the Bible isn't a litterally discription of all the events. To be exact, genesis and some other books were written during the time the jews were enslaved in Babylon. They made them to keep faith in their own people, by writing these 'creation' stories.

 

The New Testament can be considered a for better and realistic discription of the way people lived their lives those days. The old testament is, imo, a collection of 'guidelines.'

 

@ Topic:

 

Im not such a big fan of the religeous sources of origin. The story of Adam and Eve conveniantly misses out the dinosaurs. I don't know about some people but i watch Jurassic Park religously.

As aformentioned, the 'god created us' theory doesn't excist. That story was written by the enslaved Jews, whilst in Babylon. It's written in the bible itself.

 

I believe in Evolution, but in the bible as well. I think the new testament is based on true facts. Maybe a bit exaggerated, but still. It's a beautifull thing one man can change a civilisation, and do inspiring things.

I don''litterally believe the stories of the New Testament though. But I do believe in the things it implies, like you can create your own destiny, and so on. Look at Ghandi, Nelson Mandella and so on.

 

In short terms:

Evolution and the bible CAN work together.

Imo, evolution made is what we are, whilst the bible and other forms of religion gave us our morale, values and so on.

[HerbieZ]

That story was written by the enslaved Jews, whilst in Babylon.

 

Il never watch Jurassic park the same way again.

 

 

Still, i agree on the Bible/Science Alliance. There are indeed ways they can coexist instead of wars happening. I reckon that is the only way society can co-exist.

[TK-8252]

Yeah, I've read it. Rape all the virgins? What were you smoking when you supposedly did?

 

http://www.thebricktestament.com

 

There you go. A nice, visual representation of a bunch of Bible stories. It shows all the gore and rape and everything.

 

Have you read the New Testament?

 

I'm talkin' Old Testament, pal. It's in the Bible.

 

Obviously the wackos you describe haven't, either. God is not to blame for the stupidity of mankind.

 

In the Old Testament it says to stone gay people to death...

 

http://thebricktestament.com/the_law/homosexuality/lv18_22.html

 

That person who shoots up a gay bar is only doing god's will!

 

Society has gotten worse-ask anyone from the previous generation, or the one before that (those that are still around). You'd be surprised by how many would agree with me.

 

Yup... the good ol' days. I would have loved being able to go to a restaurant and not having to see any of those damn black people.

 

How about asking a black person eh? Will they be so thrilled about how back in the day, society was so great, they would get free water from fire hoses! Or they got to see nice little doggies when the cops would sick them on them!

 

I'd like to see proof that today's society is worse off than the segregated society of not too long ago. Or perhaps you like that whole segregation thing.

[Jeremia Skywalk]

I think those theories doesn't contradict each other, beacause i think, that 'Days' in which world was created is not neccesary meant to be days like in 24 hours, beacause it starts at a time when neither stars nor earth was here, so there is no way to measure days realy, besides, the idea is that God has been here for the ethernity, thus couple of million years can be the same as a day. Besides, some things are the same in evolution and Bible theory, i.e. light came first (stars), well i have to read it throughly, i don't realy remember how was it in Bible, but if we believe 'days' are millions of years realy, both theories are possible to be true at the same time. Of course that would mean that now is the seventh day and God is resting and that would explain the imperfection of life, as we don't have anyone to help us right now, but of course that this theory is with very low factic background, but it could as well be true.

[Q]

TK:

 

I just love how people can be just as obnoxiously prejudiced as they please... just as long as their opinion is the politically correct one.

 

You're making a lot of suppositions here about me that are totally off-base and wrong.

 

I'm trying to be polite. You ought to try it.

 

And who led the Afro-Americans to their present-day equality? Who showed them how to peacefully beat the racist pigs that were oppressing them? Who showed them how to expose segregation as the great evil it was?

 

Why, it was none other than the REVEREND Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. A

TRUE MAN OF GOD! What weapon did he use to beat them with? THE BIBLE!

 

Not once is the abominable act of rape condoned in the Bible. And, yes, I followed the link you provided.

[TK-8252]

TK:

 

I just love how people can be just as obnoxiously prejudiced as they please... just as long as their opinion is the politically correct one.

 

You're making a lot of suppositions here about me that are totally off-base and wrong.

 

I'm trying to be polite. You ought to try it.

 

I'm as politically-incorrect as you can get.

 

I'm the Bill Mahr of political incorrectness!

[ChAiNz.2da]

I'm as politically-incorrect as you can get.

 

I'm the Bill Mahr of political incorrectness!

Bill Mahr or not, keep to the discussion without the accusations or insinuations

 

This thread is teetering on oblivion as it is, no need to push it over the edge...