Controversial Forum Post

[Emperor Devon]

Well military and economy does have quite the effect on how powerful a nation is.

 

Whether we're the most powerful or the most weak nation on Earth, we are not better people than everyone else.

[igyman]

Perhaps you meant that Americans shouldn't consider themselves greater than other nationalities as in taking a "holier than thou" attitude with the rest of the world?

 

That's more or less what I meant. Average Americans (in no small part thanks to their own movies that make them look cool and untouchable (don't get me wrong I like watching American movies, but this is a fact, the average American is influenced a lot by what he sees on TV) and a lot of political propaganda) think that America is this really cool place, that their money, food, TV and way of life are the best and that the rest of the world is a garbage pit.

 

Also, influenced by greedy politicians (let's face it, there's no democracy in America, people who believe there is are deceiving themselves) people think that America has the right to invade other countries and do whatever they want there. Most of the world knows that those military actions have nothing to do with stopping terrorists, or bringing peace and stability to other regions, those are just excuses, it's all about capturing the region of a country that holds the most natural resources and exploit it to fill their own pockets with money.

[St. Jimmy]

A very poular view from the rest of the world. I think America starts out with good intention when they deploy military personnel in foreign countrys but usually you'll find it ends up about the resources...

[Fiestainabox]

A very poular view from the rest of the world. I think America starts out with good intention when they deploy military personnel in foreign countrys but usually you'll find it ends up about the resources...

 

 

 

Agreed, I don't know how they could re-elected a guy let, and still is letting, a guy who killed so many people in a terrorist attack, get away. All the meantime, there prancing around in a totally differenet country,for completly different reasons.

 

No offence to the soldiers in Iraq, I respect them, But Canadain Peacekeepers are dieing in Afghanistan.

[St. Jimmy]

Yeah, it sucks when OTHER country's soldiers die in someone else's war and the nation that's supposed to be doing something isn't.

[Vaelastraz]

I consider chuckling and laughing at those things perfectly ok, that is just a sense of black humour.

 

An exception would be laughing at 9/11 while being with a group of people were one of them is personally affected by that tragedy. That would be tactless.

 

@CountVerilucus

 

I would agree, the USA is the most powerful country in the world. It might not always be that way though. *cough* China *cough*

^^

[HerbieZ]

That's just un-American, not cool.

 

You are wrong Igyman, America is the greatest nation in the world.

 

Davin, you are either American or not. No matter what race you are.

 

Land of the free, home of the brave....muthaf*ck*r.

 

I do mean what I say.

 

That's just retarded. And people wonder why America has enemies...

[Totenkopf]

I'm curious, but how many of you people who trash America have actually visited other countries(or even the US) or, barring that, done any real reading about the rest of the nations on the planet? It's always natural that people will think their nation is better than most, especially when it's modern and wealthy. The "ugly fill-in-the-blank" syndrome is not endemic to the US only. And Davin, last I checked, neither the US nor NZ are races of people. Your nationality may be dual in nature, but that's not your race. The US, for all its faults, is still one of the greatest nations to grace the planet. But let's have a little perspective here. No nation, and I mean NO nation, goes to war w/o some kind of agenda. The Civil War was not fought to free the slaves, nor WW2 to save the Jews. The current war on terrorism is no doubt being fought to keep muslim extremists from overturning the status quo, which by extension is self-preservation.

 

As to the student, I think he was basically a horse's ass and got what he deserved. If he wanted to mock the presentation only (assuming that was his true intention) he probably should have contained himself till later. No doubt all he "learned" from his experience was continued resentment of authority. Most people tend to forget that freedom of speech (nevermind expression) is not absolute (even in America) and that sometimes your actions carry a penalty. Detention is a pretty light penalty.

[igyman]

That's just retarded. And people wonder why America has enemies...

 

QFE

 

I'm curious, but how many of you people who trash America have actually visited other countries(or even the US) or, barring that, done any real reading about the rest of the nations on the planet? It's always natural that people will think their nation is better than most, especially when it's modern and wealthy.

 

I have visited Greece, Czech Republic and Slovakia, if you must know and I had a great time in each of those countries.

I don't think my nation is better than the rest, quite the opposite. What I think is that the Americans are convinced that they are better than the rest when it comes to every aspect of life and I think that they are absolutely wrong. They are just people, like the rest of us. They aren't gods and they can't do whatever they want whereever they want. They need to get back down to Earth and start thinking straight.

[Jae Onasi]

What I think is that the Americans are convinced that they are better than the rest when it comes to every aspect of life and I think that they are absolutely wrong. They are just people, like the rest of us. They aren't gods and they can't do whatever they want whereever they want. They need to get back down to Earth and start thinking straight.

 

Average Joe American is worried about their families, gas prices, their job, their football team, their stuff, and maybe Iraq, and in that order. It's not that they think they're superior, it's that they don't think outside of the American box, or actually their little part of it. If you ask the average American _college_ student, they won't be able to name the Secretaries of State or Defense. They won't be able to point out Afghanistan on a map. They _might_ be able to find Iraq. Most won't be able to name _any_ leaders of any other countries. Ask them who Blair, Putin, and Chirac are and they might answer 'The 3 Stooges?'

 

America is so _big_ that most Americans never see enough of this country alone, much less others. The state of Texas alone is the size of France. Some people who live in the biggest cities have never even left those cities. There's so much to do there that there's no real need. So, they've never been exposed to other cultures outside the US.

 

Americans know so little about other countries, much less the social/political forces driving those countries, that they can't imagine people thinking in any way different from them. They're genuinely confused by some of what happens in the Middle East and other parts of the world--why would people want to use religion or a political system as an excuse to suppress freedom of speech and commerce? Why wouldn't people want to have a 'better standard of living'?

 

It's not that Americans actively think they're better than the rest of the world, they just are so caught up in their own lives and what happens in the US that they don't think about other countries.

 

I've been to Mexico and France. I loved visiting both places and want to go back sometime.

[igyman]

Americans know so little about other countries, much less the social/political forces driving those countries, that they can't imagine people thinking in any way different from them.

 

I think that the American education/school system is more to blame when it comes to this, but the thing is that the people in power like it that way. If people don't really know much about other countries, they are more easily manipulated into believeing what they are told by politicians in power. (in this case, mr. Bush)

 

Btw, that's a damn scary new avatar, Jae.

[swphreak]

I think the rest of the world likes to generalise Americans. We're all just fat, lazy, warmongering racists.

 

I've been to Ireland (interesting place, they have orange flavored kitkats) and the Bahamas (Note to self, stay away), it just so happens, I like where I live a lot more than other places. Yes, your peacekeepers are dieing, so are American soldiers who have to follow the orders of a monkey in a suit.

 

/bleh

 

Yeah the kid probably should have kept his pie hole shut. Sure the video was probably corny, but he could have waited to gossip about it after it finished.

 

Edit: Jae said it best. It's just that I'm more concerned with getting my degree and going to work. I could honestly care less about the rest of the world. We have 2 more years til Bush is evicted fom the White House, until then, I just hope our next president can do damage control.

[igyman]

Nah, you're not all lazy, warmongering and racists (only the KKK are racists and maybe a few others).

 

The politicians are the warmongering ones and what pisses the rest of the world off is that they are doing it only to fill their pockets with money.

 

I've actually met a few Americans when I was a kid and they were all decent people (yup, I spoke english back then almost as good as I do now.)

[Jae Onasi]

I think that the American education/school system is more to blame when it comes to this, but the thing is that the people in power like it that way. If people don't really know much about other countries, they are more easily manipulated into believeing what they are told by politicians in power. (in this case, mr. Bush)

 

Actually, in the US, the curriculum isn't determined at the national level like it is in other countries. It's determined at the state and local level. Certain programs are mandated at the federal/national level, but the actual curriculum is left up to more local control--which is probably for the best--the needs of students in rural Arkansas or Wyoming are going to be different from the needs of students in Washington, DC or New York City. We're trying to get our kids to the point where they can read well enough to be able to think critically. They also listen more to what the news (which leans to the liberal side generally) says than what their politicians say. People may not be able to even list the Senators from their home state unless they've been in the news a lot.

 

Btw, that's a damn scary new avatar, Jae.

 

It's the red version of the one His Supremacy used last night when he was briefly "Dark Lady of the Sith" in the Male/Female thread. You'll have to thank Emperor/Empress Devon for that one. It was too fun to pass up using as his 'nemesis'.

[Astrotoy7]

Sure, people can have their own stance on things, but as Niner said - in these type of things, discretion is paramount. There are no *real* consequences to this kid acting like a smartass in class. A detention doesnt mean ****.

 

What if you had classmembers who were directly affected, is it still 'cool' to laugh ??

 

I feel very strongly about what 9-11 has done to the world, and as a Muslim the world changed for me that very day. I find it distressing though that you hear so much about this incident, and the holocaust. Its like the atrocities that have happened in other parts of the world, and continue to happen in places like Africa do not even exist....

 

Still, despite this, I would never giggle at the twin towers falling, or shoot my mouth off on a tour of auschwitz. Discretion !

 

Just another case of a young smartass being inconsiderate to others. Too bad no one was mad enough to knock your teeth in

 

jackass.

 

mtfwbya

[Jae Onasi]

I think the Sudan and Chad (among other places) would be on the American radar more if we weren't so worried about Iraq, Iran, and North Korea, in that order. It does get mentioned on the news occasionally, but not very often. Since Sudan can't (or isn't known to) make nuclear weapons to shoot at us and the other 3 could/can, it doesn't capture national interest to the degree that it should. That's too bad, too, because a lot of people have died horribly there and what little the UN has done has been obviously ineffective.

 

Ansuya--wow. I've done just enough belly dancing to know that it's really hard to do well. Her isolation and control are terrific.

[RC-1162]

Hmpf. So what if he laughed. I laughed when the thing happened, not because I was glad that people were dying, but because it was a spectacular sight to see the two buildings tumble down into ruin. I was only glad that the Americans were taught a lesson - that they are not greater than any other nation. Otherwise, it is a real shame that so many people had to die.

 

i agree with you that America had to be taught a lesson. the Qaeda morons smacked the planes into the WTCs. why didnt they go for the White House?

[Jae Onasi]

i agree with you that America had to be taught a lesson. the Qaeda morons smacked the planes into the WTCs. why didnt they go for the White House?

 

If you want to 'teach America a lesson', you don't do it by plowing planes into buildings full of innocent people, no matter what building it is. There are far better and constructive ways to tell America you're really p*ssed off at them.

 

They _were_ trying to go for the White House. Thank God some brave people on Flight 93 stopped the morons before they could accomplish it.

[Diego Varen]

America isn't the most powerful nation on Earth. No offense, but they just boost and think everything is great, whatever. I'm from England in the UK, so most people here would probably think the UK is bad, so I don't want to go there.

 

America, didn't need any lessons being taught to them. For all we know, Qaeda could've planned to make the planes hit the White House, Buckingham Palace, 10 Downing Street anywhere. Personally I don't like arguing, so I think we should get back on topic now.

[Fiestainabox]

Yeah, it sucks when OTHER country's soldiers die in someone else's war and the nation that's supposed to be doing something isn't.

 

But then again, Canadians are still there. We too, are guilty of electing a dumbass for prime minister. But he's better than bush.

 

But fixing Afghanistan is important, if we leave, some other form of crazy terrorist government will form, and end up screwing the place over again. If the USA would actually do what they were supposed to do, we wouldn't have this problem.

[igyman]

How is bombing its cities and killing its people helping Afghanistan, or Iraq for that matter reform and improve their way of life?

 

If the USA would actually do what they were supposed to do, we wouldn't have this problem.

 

I absolutely agree.

[Davinq]

But then again, Canadians are still there. We too, are guilty of electing a dumbass for prime minister. But he's better than bush.

Same case in New Zealand.

But fixing Afghanistan is important, if we leave, some other form of crazy terrorist government will form, and end up screwing the place over again.

Uh, no. I heartily support the theory that the U.S.A should not be the World Police. There are a lot of other countries that need to be "fixed," and the only reason they chose Afghanistan was because of Osama, essentially. Now Iraq, I'm not even going to go there.

 

Back on topic...

The slideshow that kid saw must have been pretty funny. The way it was described, I probably wouldn't have taken it seriously either. But still, it's his own fault for laughing, he should have controlled it.

 

DQK out.

[St. Jimmy]

Average Joe American is worried about their families, gas prices, their job, their football team, their stuff, and maybe Iraq, and in that order. It's not that they think they're superior, it's that they don't think outside of the American box, or actually their little part of it. If you ask the average American _college_ student, they won't be able to name the Secretaries of State or Defense. They won't be able to point out Afghanistan on a map. They _might_ be able to find Iraq. Most won't be able to name _any_ leaders of any other countries. Ask them who Blair, Putin, and Chirac are and they might answer 'The 3 Stooges?'

 

America is so _big_ that most Americans never see enough of this country alone, much less others. The state of Texas alone is the size of France. Some people who live in the biggest cities have never even left those cities. There's so much to do there that there's no real need. So, they've never been exposed to other cultures outside the US.

 

Americans know so little about other countries, much less the social/political forces driving those countries, that they can't imagine people thinking in any way different from them. They're genuinely confused by some of what happens in the Middle East and other parts of the world--why would people want to use religion or a political system as an excuse to suppress freedom of speech and commerce? Why wouldn't people want to have a 'better standard of living'?

 

It's not that Americans actively think they're better than the rest of the world, they just are so caught up in their own lives and what happens in the US that they don't think about other countries.

 

I've been to Mexico and France. I loved visiting both places and want to go back sometime.

Word to your mother. or father.. or whatever the hell it is. You basically just said what I was going to say but couldn't be stuffed. You said it better than I would have though... This may sound insensitive but I'm beginning to get sick of all the 9/11 stuff that you here about. I'm not saying it should be forgotten (it most definately should NOT be forgotten) but it's EVERYWHERE! Every year around this time since it happened you get bombarded with 9/11 stuff and I think it's time to cool down a little...

But then again, Canadians are still there. We too, are guilty of electing a dumbass for prime minister. But he's better than bush.

 

But fixing Afghanistan is important, if we leave, some other form of crazy terrorist government will form, and end up screwing the place over again. If the USA would actually do what they were supposed to do, we wouldn't have this problem.

Amen to that.

[Char Ell]

i agree with you that America had to be taught a lesson.

So you agree with igyman yet neither of you have explained what the "lesson" was. If you guys are serious about this then tell we Americans what lesson we just had to be taught by Al-Qaeda on Sept. 11 or just admit that you're trolling.

But then again, Canadians are still there. We too, are guilty of electing a dumbass for prime minister. But he's better than bush.

You are entitled to your opinion of course.

If the USA would actually do what they were supposed to do, we wouldn't have this problem.

And what pray tell is the USA "supposed" to be doing in your opinion? Please elaborate.

How is bombing its cities and killing its people helping Afghanistan, or Iraq for that matter reform and improve their way of life?

Are you addressing this question in reference to the coalition forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Taliban, Iraqi Sunnis, Iraqi Shiia, and/or the foreign Muslim extremists in Iraq? Please be more specific if you wish to engage in serious and meaningful discussion on this subject.

[Totenkopf]

Sooooooooo.....wtf? I'm curious as to how several of you seem to tantalize with your vague potshots, while offering no constructive insight whatsoever. Igy, Nutter, RC, et al......Cutmeister is quite right to ask you to be a little more specific. What is NOT being done that you believe would remedy the situation? Everyone who opposes someone else always thinks that they are better (usually on a moral plane if nothing else) than the one they knock. I've been to about a dozen different countries myself, which is more than some and less than others, but at least I have some basis of comparison. America is like many countries when you get down to the man-in-the-street level.............somewhat provincial.

 

For many Americans, kinda like Luke in the 1st SW film, the war (or any other global crisis) is so far away. Being seperated by two oceans from much of the rest of the world has no doubt contributed to that feeling. As well as our ancestors moving away from other parts of the world to try to start a new and hopefully better life over here. It's a little to easy to take potshots at the US when other countries offer no solutions either. Where, for instance, is the groundswell of public outcry w/in Canada, NZ, sundry european countries demanding that their govts. end the suffering in the Sudan (or most of Africa for that matter)? Why has not the leadership of those nations offered more in the way of ground forces, money ,etc...to address these problems? It's often interesting that many who decry the US as the world's policeman don't step up to offer to take up that role themselves, or to at least lighten the load. Usually what's asked (nay, demanded) is that America fork over a ton of money, provide cannon fodder and forget about questions of accountability. Is it any wonder that the UN is seen as a joke in this country? Especially in light of its ineffectual performance in just about any/every crisis it claims to try to address.

 

It is somewhat questionable as to what degree the PRC will become the dominant power, as was suggested in this thread. Just 20+ years ago the talk was of the coming of the Japanese century. Now its China. Frankly, given their population problem, one has to wonder. Even as China becomes more powerful, it's still economically vulnerable. Given the importance of the US market to PRC goods, and their investment in US Treasuries, China is trapped in a kind of simbiotic relationship w/America. Plus, even if both sides have nukes in large numbers (the PRC isn't quite there yet.......at least not openly), that only results in a standoff like w/the Cold War.

Remember, the USSR industrialized in record time, but never eclipsed the US. Time will only tell how it goes for China. Don't forget, India's also a potential counterweight to China.