Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win

[The Architect]

And about bringing speculation into this argument, Architect, you have mentioned the "Nihilus is Exile's dark-side" several times which is just a fan-made theory.

 

Ah, but I said we should keep baseless speculations out of this.

 

Perhaps. But in such a debate, it would be best to keep such speculation out of this. We should just go by what we know from the game, and other canonical sources, since if you bring {such should go here, my bad} speculation into such a debate, you can just make up anything you want that may sound reasonable, but is baseless. And you can be biased. Heck I don’t even know if starving Nihilus would make him killable for a regular force user such as Revan.

 

The “Nihilus is Exile’s dark side” theory is anything but baseless. The “There could be many ways to use Nihilus power against him” speculation however is based on… what exactly? Nothing am I right?

 

Revan would win a war though.

 

Of course. Who wouldn’t win in a war against a primal thing with no, or almost no will of their own, such as Nihilus?

 

You say let's keep speculation out of this. Then why on earth to you ***ume that Nihilus cannot be harmed with ordinary force powers, blaster or a lightsaber? I don't recall anyone saying, or even hinting that.

 

Kreia and others suggest that he cannot be defeated. Through Visas you find out, that he can consume every living being from orbit, that his mere presence can kill. That he drains and thereby kills force sensitives.

 

There's no statement that he cannot be harmed. It's the fact that he can kill you and there is nothing you can do about it that makes him "undefeatable".

 

Ah, but I said we should keep baseless speculations out of this. The fact that Nihilus drains the force suggests he can absorb force powers. So my speculation that whatever Revan would throw at him would be soaked by Nihilus isn’t entirely baseless, is it?

 

Although you could just throw the “Visas and the Exile use force powers that harm Nihilus” argument back at me. I argue back at that by saying they can, because they are exceptions in being able to harm Nihilus because of who they are, and it’s just a game play thing (maybe because Obsidian had to rush the development of TSL). They didn’t have enough time to implement a “only your lightsaber, not force powers will harm Nihilus in combat” game play mechanic.

[SilentScope001]

Um... well, I've nailed him a couple of times with Force Wave. Then again, I was a Consular/Jedi Master at level 27-28 with a Wisdom of about 45.

 

It's obvious that Nihilus isn't completely immune, so I'll go with the "incredibly high Force resistance" theory.

 

Ah, glad to know. I was using a Guardain, which may be the reason why I couldn't use the Force Powers effectively.

 

As for why I brought that up: Somebody used gameplay mechanicis to argue that Nihilus was weak, so I used gameplay mechanicis to argue that Nihilus is in fact strong.

[SirHaxALot]

The “Nihilus is Exile’s dark side” theory is anything but baseless. The “There could be many ways to use Nihilus power against him” speculation however is based on… what exactly? Nothing am I right?

 

Starving him. Speculation or truth revealed by Kreia? Anyway, to create a short-term starvation? Exile. Baseless speculation? Indeed, there are ways to turn his power against him.

 

Other ways? Draw his attention to another force-sensitive being (yes I know, so many holes in this argument, don't bother). Who knows, maybe Revan, who knew of many techniques deigned "arcane" even by his sith-counterparts. Perhaps he has knowledge of this ancient; primal; life-draining force power. Perhaps not. Oh, and Revan's vast knowledge of Sith teachings and powers is not "rumors and baseless speculation". Check any source or read some dialogue.

 

But even with knowledge of the existence of the force power, could he utilize it in hopes of defeating Nihilus in any way? Perhaps; perhaps not.

 

Of course. Who wouldn’t win in a war against a primal thing with no, or almost no will of their own, such as Nihilus?

 

Ok, so Revan therefore, wins the 1on1.

 

Since you refuse to accept the fact that Revan and Nihilus aren't separated by a planet; I refuse to accept that Revan and Nihilus aren't separated by a war.

 

But you did state that even if Revan did manage to somehow make it on the bridge, there would be no hope for him--since based on our limited knowledge of Revan and Nihilus, Nihilus seems the clear victor. I guess, this much could be considered true--once you deign Nihilus immune to direct and indirect force attacks.

 

Ah, but I said we should keep baseless speculations out of this. The fact that Nihilus drains the force suggests he can absorb force powers. So my speculation that whatever Revan would throw at him would be soaked by Nihilus isn’t entirely baseless, is it?

 

+Other Stuff

 

Indeed, perhaps he should have been able to nullify passive force powers such as Speed, Force Valor etc on the Exile or Visas. And even if they were only able to use force powers on Nihilus because of a connection, why does Nihilus allow "party affecting" force powers to assist Canderous? Perhaps, this is just a glitch, from an all-so-rushed TSL.

 

I still don't like the idea of you using "Nihils = Exile darkside" as supportive evidence. Hell, I should start rambling on about Kreia being a true sith, therefore lying to the Exile about Nihilus' invincible power. Then I could further argue that Kreia taught Nihilus this, because she exhibits a similar power against the Jedi Council. She completely lied about it being instinctual, because she's actually a True Sith who hatched a great scheme that would weaken the Jedi and Sith (destruction of the Jedi by Nihilus, then the destruction of Nihilus). Lalalalalala

[The Architect]

Uh, the creator of this thread didn’t even specify where this battle would take place, or how far they would be from each other. So what facts are you speaking of? I’m just going by my own logic, which is:

 

1. Nihilus can detect and drain hundreds of people connected to the force from thousands of miles away.

 

2. Revan is strong in the force; thus in my opinion it would be difficult for him/her to hide from Nihilus.

 

3. The moment Revan tries to kill Nihilus, he/she is no longer hiding from him. Since I still believe he/she wouldn’t be able to get anywhere near Nihilus, let alone the Ravager. Anything Revan does to win wouldn’t be a “true” victory, unless Revan can use force powers from long distances as well… which I doubt.

 

4. There really isn’t anything to suggest that Revan knows of any anti-Nihilus power. I second ED’s argument in this thread that it’s highly unlikely that no such anti-Nihilus power exists. In my opinion, there is no anti-Nihilus technique, or force power.

 

5. As soon as Nihilus detects Revan… bye bye Revan, if you ask me.

 

So basically I believe a 1 on 1 battle between Revan and Nihilus is impossible, and it isn't a baseless speculation either. Not necessarily correct, but not unjustifiable.

 

And one more thing before I cease to post in this thread for good – prove that I used the “Nihilus is a dark manifestation” theory of Jediphile’s (which is certainly not baseless, given Jediphile’s in my opinion convincing points to support his supposition) as supportive evidence for Nihilus not being immune to force power attacks used by the Exile against him.

 

All I was doing was pointing out as an example that the “Nihilus is the Exile’s dark side” theory is based on many quotes and observations made by Jediphile in the game, whether as the theory that there could be many ways to use Nihilus power is based on… I rest my case.

[Melly]

Starving him. Speculation or truth revealed by Kreia?

 

A little of both I think, but mentioned in game by the Exile in a conversation with Visas if you have a high enough Wisdom and/or Intelligence: Or it may starve him... and make him more desperate.

[SirHaxALot]

Uh, the creator of this thread didn’t even specify where this battle would take place, or how far they would be from each other. So what facts are you speaking of? I’m just going by my own logic, which is:

1-3

4. There really isn’t anything to suggest that Revan knows of any anti-Nihilus power. I second ED’s argument in this thread that it’s highly unlikely that no such anti-Nihilus power exists. In my opinion, there is no anti-Nihilus technique, or force power.

 

There probably isn't an "anti-Nihilus" power. But powers and techniques could be used against him, or perhaps there is an inherent weakness within the power. That's all im suggesting--sorry if I eluded that a specific power designed to beat "drain all-life + wtfpwneveryone" existed.

 

But even with knowledge of the existence of the force power, could he utilize it in hopes of defeating Nihilus in any way? Perhaps; perhaps not.

 

By "the force power" I meant the draining all life through the force...power. Not the anti-Nihilus power. If that's where you got the assumption that I believed a specific anti-Nihilus power existed.

 

So basically I believe a 1 on 1 battle between Revan and Nihilus is impossible, and it isn't a baseless speculation either. Not necessarily correct, but not unjustifiable.

 

Indeed, if a 1on1 battle is impossible, then it is impossible to decide a winner. Unless by 1on1 you mean that Revan would never be close enough to battle Nihilus. If that is the case: I'll just say Revan's forces vs Nihilus'.

 

And one more thing before I cease to post in this thread for good – prove that I used the “Nihilus is a dark manifestation” theory of Jediphile’s (which is certainly not baseless, given Jediphile’s in my opinion convincing points to support his supposition) as supportive evidence for Nihilus not being immune to force power attacks used by the Exile against him.

 

All I was doing was pointing out as an example that the “Nihilus is the Exile’s dark side” theory is based on many quotes and observations made by Jediphile in the game, whether as the theory that there could be many ways to use Nihilus power is based on… I rest my case.

 

I believe when I typed,

I still don't like the idea of you using "Nihils = Exile darkside" as supportive evidence. Hell, I should start rambling on about Kreia being a true sith, therefore lying to the Exile about Nihilus' invincible power. Then I could further argue that Kreia taught Nihilus this, because she exhibits a similar power against the Jedi Council. She completely lied about it being instinctual, because she's actually a True Sith who hatched a great scheme that would weaken the Jedi and Sith (destruction of the Jedi by Nihilus, then the destruction of Nihilus). Lalalalalala

 

I was just using it as an example of why you should not consider theories such as Nihilus = Exile as reliable sources of debating material. I wasn't actually trying to rebuttal the "force powers work against Nihilus" statement. Hence the separation of paragraphs.

[Christos K]

Architect, you just said that Nihilus went to the suface of Katarr and killed everything when you already said he killed them all from orbit. Thousand of miles away.... Now that changes everything. Oh one more thing about this, maybe Nihilus can sense the force senstitive from thousands of miles away but he may not be able to kill them from that distance. The last thing is this, lets just take the Exile and say she/he never exsisted. Then Nihilus would be invincible, its to dramatic, to dark there are more ways to kill him. No one says it is a Sith Power, Kreia does say that it is a power in the force that is as old as the Sith not a power from the Sith. Now I like I said in a earlier post. If Revan and Nihilus were put in a duel arena right next to eachother Revan would turn quickly and cut him down. But if they wer put at two ends of the arena Nihilus could/would win. But we do not know if there is a power in the force that is a defense against it or another way of learning it (Dont bring up what Kreia says that could be true or a lie. She could have said to make the Exile not want to find the power and become like Nihilus.) Also lets say any force Sensitive had the power Yoda had. To copy any force power that is coming at you and send it back at your opponet. Would that power stand up against Nihilus?

[Jediphile]

Architect, you just said that Nihilus went to the suface of Katarr and killed everything when you already said he killed them all from orbit. Thousand of miles away.... Now that changes everything. Oh one more thing about this, maybe Nihilus can sense the force senstitive from thousands of miles away but he may not be able to kill them from that distance.

 

Nihilus went to the surface AFTER he had already killed everything from orbit. Everything except Visas, that is.

 

This is revealed in the short comic "Unseen, Unheard"

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unseen%2C_Unheard

[Christos K]

Jediphilie, Thankyou for correcting me but he also said some other thing like killing some, mostly, or all of the life on Katarr. And I had edited my post because I had posted before I written everything so you might want to read throught it.

[Vaelastraz]

Ah, but I said we should keep baseless speculations out of this. The fact that Nihilus drains the force suggests he can absorb force powers. So my speculation that whatever Revan would throw at him would be soaked by Nihilus isn’t entirely baseless, is it?

 

Although you could just throw the “Visas and the Exile use force powers that harm Nihilus” argument back at me. I argue back at that by saying they can, because they are exceptions in being able to harm Nihilus because of who they are, and it’s just a game play thing (maybe because Obsidian had to rush the development of TSL). They didn’t have enough time to implement a “only your lightsaber, not force powers will harm Nihilus in combat” game play mechanic.

 

So if you someone is able to drain all force potential out of someone, you assume that they can equally absorb all kind of force powers.

 

I'm not going to say anything about gameplay, as it hardly counts imo, but you do realize that there seem to exist several forms of force drain right?

 

1.) The skillable force drain that simply drains some of a beings force and adds it to your own.

 

2.) Kreia's instant killing total force drain. Now I don't see the difference to Nihilus' but that is another story..

 

3.) Nihilus' drain that seems to work from 1000 miles away, targetting millions of people at the same time.

 

The first one merely drains force points, the second and the third one seem to somehow destroy/sever someone from the force/life.

 

Why should that provide immunity to force powers? And if it does, why not also on the player and Kreia?

 

I agree with you though that it isn't a baseless speculation.

[Christos K]

I have said this a long time ago. Daa.. Lets just send a email to Obisidian or Lucas Arts or somehow even George Lucas. I dubt all three will send anything back but its worth a try. Make sure to remind them that they are about the two most famous Sith Lords, Jedi, or characters, Darth/Jedi Revan and Darth Nihilus of their time. Vaelastraz, dont forget the Force Drain ability that is like Drain Force only drain portions of the opponet's life and puts it into yours. OKay I have done like three posts today and this might be one of the last ones. You know I am just going to say let Nihilus win let him kill some people's favorite character and one of my favorite characters. But then again I never wanted Nihilus to die either. I think I really want Revan to win and have been on his side but on this thread people have no imagination. Even though it supposed to be through facts and I think the creator of this thread might have nt wanted to include the Nihilus drain power and just wanted to see a one on one duel between Revan and Nihilus without the power and then another person said the thing about the power and it turned into a thread about a power against Nihilus' power. Lets take away Nihilus' power and hunger. Who do you think would win? Now I like the thread how its going but I do not like how its the constent Nihilus' power that we dont even understand against anything.

[Vaelastraz]

That ability you mention drains hitpoints, not forcepoints, so I'd say it doesn't belong to the rest.

 

I don't think that the creator of the thread intended a Nihilus vs Revan without Nihilus' drain. After all that is what makes him so powerful and special. Without it, there is no doubt Revan would eliminate him.

[ThoraxeRMG]

Is this some kind of a joke? Nihilus would wipe the floor with Revan. Only someone who is a wound in the Force, a dead spot in the Force, like the Exile was, could beat Nihilus. Those who claim otherwise do not understand how Nihilus' power works, or are just stubborn Revan fan boys.

 

Okay, so in terms of gameplay, Revan was powerful and Nihilus was a weakling, but that does not mean Revan would win, because there is a difference between gameplay and the plot. Story wise (which is what counts) Nihilus>Revan. Simple.

 

 

Even though I'm a Giant Revan fanboy, I have to agree with you.

EDIT: Damn! Revan is winning the polls?! WTF?

[SilentScope001]

EDIT: Damn! Revan is winning the polls?! WTF?

 

If it was a Popularity Contenst, I would think Revan would win the polls. People are really egoistic at heart.

 

But it is not supposed to be, since Nihilus is likely to win against Revan.

[ThoraxeRMG]

If it was a Popularity Contenst, I would think Revan would win the polls. People are really egoistic at heart.

 

But it is not supposed to be, since Nihilus is likely to win against Revan.

 

That's what I'm thinking too!

[Jediphile]

Wasn't it Shem who already pointed out that a sadly high number of fanboys will always vote Revan in any poll, even if Revan has nothing to do with the issue being discussed?

 

Sorry, I don't recall who said it... Probably because I'm still trying to dispel that sad fact.

[ThoraxeRMG]

Wasn't it Shem who already pointed out that a sadly high number of fanboys will always vote Revan in any poll, even if Revan has nothing to do with the issue being discussed?

 

Sorry, I don't recall who said it... Probably because I'm still trying to dispel that sad fact.

 

I noticed that, they give other Revan Fans a bad name.

[Jediphile]

I noticed that, they give other Revan Fans a bad name.

 

Sadly yes. I like Revan, but I wouldn't consider myself a fanboy by any means.

[Emperor Devon]

Lets take away Nihilus' power and hunger. Who do you think would win?

 

It would probably be a semi-tough fight, but I'd put my money on Revan.

 

Happy? Now let's talk about how well Nihilus would do without his hands tied.

 

Now I like the thread how its going but I do not like how its the constent Nihilus' power that we dont even understand against anything.

 

It's perfectly understandable. Nihilus is a creature that feeds upon the Force, and has special planet-wide, completely unblockable and instantly-killing powers that allow him to do so.

 

Correct me if I’m wrong but Emperor Devon (a reliable source of information if you ask me) said an article, or comic… well something, called Unseen, Unheard, written by Chris Avellone, the guy who wrote the awesome plot for TSL, mentions that Nihilus went to the surface of Katarr and killed some, most, perhaps all life there.

 

Thanks. It's a comic Chris Avellone wrote that details how Visas came into Nihilus' servitude. Included in it is a part where Nihilus wades into the conclave of a hundred or so Jedi Masters and drains them (and the rest of the life on the planet) all at once.

 

I honestly don't see how people can debate this. If Nihilus can kill that many Jedi Masters all at once, (and within range to be attacked by their lightsabers) I don't think just one Force-sensitive would be able to get the better of him.

[Jediphile]

Thanks. It's a comic Chris Avellone wrote that details how Visas came into Nihilus' servitude. Included in it is a part where Nihilus wades into the conclave of a hundred or so Jedi Masters and drains them (and the rest of the life on the planet) all at once.

 

I honestly don't see how people can debate this. If Nihilus can kill that many Jedi Masters all at once, (and within range to be attacked by their lightsabers) I don't think just one Force-sensitive would be able to get the better of him.

 

I honestly don't know where you get that from. The story follows Visas fairly closely. That said, we do see Nihilus on the Ravager over Katarr just as the attack begins. We do not see him again, however, until he stands over Visas' half dead body just as the text says, "It is said there were no survivors on Kataar. That is because my lord came for the last one himself." Everything after that is when Visas wakes up on the Ravager. We do not see at which point during the attack Nihilus went down to the planet, nor did we see any fight between him and the jedi masters. Indeed, the masters do not appear in the story at all.

[Emperor Devon]

We do not see at which point during the attack Nihilus went down to the planet, nor did we see any fight between him and the jedi masters. Indeed, the masters do not appear in the story at all.

 

No, technically you see Nihilus drain everyone, just not up close.

 

Besides, you do see him walking around on Katarr's surface - I don't see why he'd drain the planet from orbit and then waste time going down to it. He seems to favor draining his prey up close in any case, waiting for the Exile to come to the bridge before trying to consume her, and stripping Kreia of the Force up close rather than from miles away.

[Jediphile]

No, technically you see Nihilus drain everyone, just not up close.

 

Yes, I know. That's why I say he did it from orbit.

 

Besides, you do see him walking around on Katarr's surface - I don't see why he'd drain the planet from orbit and then waste time going down to it.

 

He came to get Visas. Pretty obvious, really...

 

He seems to favor draining his prey up close in any case, waiting for the Exile to come to the bridge before trying to consume her, and stripping Kreia of the Force up close rather than from miles away.

 

Since the exile is (also) a wound in the force, I'm not sure if Nihilus could even sense him before he got close. As for Kreia, it's obvious that it'll be closer, since they were both together on Malachor V when he decided betray her and kick her out.

[SirHaxALot]

Such an attack on wordplay.

 

But I guess that's all we can use to argue.

 

Both sides are stuck with this. XD

[GOD Radu]

Revan would heaved wiped the floor with Nihilus and all his wound in the force. Man, he conquered the galaxy and then left, now that's power.

[True_Avery]

The fight is not fair in my mind.

 

A fight between Revan and Nihilius is compairable to throwing a baby against the entire Force.

 

Now, as a fangirl, I will say that Revan could probably beat just about anybody 1v1, in the old republic all the way to the new republic. I'm just that way because I'm obsessive.

 

But I don't consider Nihilus to be "anybody". It is not even a thing. It is a moving wound in the Force, no longer a man or even a living being. The best way I can think to put it is a Black Hole. Putting absolutely anybody against it, except another wound or a force dead being, is completely and utterly suicide. They cannot win, and anybody who believes so should play both Kotor games a few more times and come back to argue.

 

Do I think Revan has a chance of beating Nihilus? No. Not at all.

 

Do I think Revan could survive, along with any other Force Sensitive being? Yes. Under circumstances.

 

Nihilus attacks through the Force. Not eating your life, not stabbing you, not ripping your head off, but by simply eating the force from you to the point you die. The Exile has different reasons for being immune. Some believe she has a bond with Nihilus, so that would basicly be trying to absorb your own energy. Some believe that because the Exile cut herself off from the force, that the Exile was immune to the effects. Some believe that it is her wound that makes her immune.

 

Now, as I understand it, the Force is in all living things and nearly all life needs it to survive. But the Force can be willingly silenced within a person, making them Force-Dead. Now, in just about all instances of people cutting themselves off completely from the Force, they have gained it back in due time or very soon depending on their skill and intelligence. And in nearly all instances they did it to save themselves from something.

 

Now all of this is just theory, but 1v1 in a room together, Nihilus would kill Revan. Nihilus would kill pretty much anybody. Nihilus would kill the Force 1v1. But if they were to meet randomly in an escapable area, I believe Revan, if Revan had the time to think, could survive to see another day. If Revan knew what was coming, which is highly possible due to Revan's known intelligence, then Revan could cut him/her self off from the Force, leaving nothing for Nihilus to devour. Now, at that point Revan is left open for more direct means of being killed, like a Force Power or Lightsaber, but it leaves an opening to run like hell.

 

Anybody who makes a [insert Name] Vs. Nihilus thread should make sure they know what they are doing. Nihilius is not a being, it is a wound. You might as well put [insert Name] Vs. A Black Hole. The Exile, a Force-Dead being, or another wound are the absolute only type of things to beat Nihilus.

 

But this is a thread on a Vs. match. Someone has to "Win", even though there is no winner of this match. So, like I said, Revan would lose. Anybody would lose. The Force itself pretty much loses. No matter how much I obsesively love Revan, if her/she tried to combat Nihilus with the Force he/she would lose. Period. But it is possible to survive and it is not unblockable. If it was, Nihilus would have killed the Exile instantly on the bridge of the Ravager.

 

Thats just my 2 cents. Now, onto people bashing me for loving Revan!